GROUPTHINK

[T.Ruth2power]

is a type of thought exhibited by group members who try to minimize conflict and reach consensus without critically testing, analyzing, and evaluating ideas. During groupthink, members of the group avoid promoting viewpoints outside the comfort zone of consensus thinking. A variety of motives for this may exist such as a desire to avoid being seen as foolish, or a desire to avoid embarrassing or angering other members of the group. Groupthink may cause groups to make hasty, irrational decisions, where individual doubts are set aside, for fear of upsetting the group’s balance. The term is frequently used pejoratively, with hindsight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink

[smoogatz]

1. And your point is...?

[T.Ruth2power]

3. You don't know...?

[smoogatz]

6. Am I supposed to guess?

Okay, here goes: you're VERY CONCERNED that Democrats are rallying behind the Democratic candidate! Because the candidate's fealty (or not) to your pet issue (or not) is THE MOST IMPORTANT THING EVAH. Subtext: vote Nader!!!!11!

That about right?

[T.Ruth2power]

9. Look again...

[anigbrowl]

32. I did. Without context, it's just noise.

Republicans? Obamabots? Democrats? Americans? Stock traders? DUers? Humans? Trolls?

[stillcool]

2. what do you call unifying...

for a common cause? Like life? What do you call 'we the people'?

[Lex]

4. Megadittos to you!

nt

[skooooo]

5. ..

:popcorn:

[BlooInBloo]

8. Trade you some milk duds for some popcorn!

[Greyhound]

7. This should be interesting, K & R.

:popcorn:
:kick: & R

[zanne]

10. I understand what you're trying to say.

The Republican Party has been guilty of this and they got us into the situation we're in now.

[TexasObserver]

11. "And I promise to be my own person ...

"And I promise to be my own person, and not simply repeat what other people tell me to say."
--- Steve Martin, circa 1976, in his stand up act, requiring the audience to repeat after him this pledge

[tkmorris]

12. This is just juvenile

Make your point or don't post. No one wants to play guessing games with you.

[AmyCamus]

41. "Make your point or don't post."

What is the group point you're trying make?

[seemslikeadream]

13. Don't make me leave my comfort zone!!

[A-Schwarzenegger]

14. What's it called when somebody uses wikipedia to express themselves?

But at least you created those images. Right?

[ColbertWatcher]

27. What is it called when someone uses Wikiality to express themselves?

Wikiality being the Truthiness Encyclopedia based on a word created by Maestro Doctor Professor Field Marshall The Reverend Stephen Colbert, Esquire.

Thank you.

[AmyCamus]

42. What is it called when someone uses Wikiaphobia to express themselves?

There's some truthiness in the original post in this thread.

[RandomKoolzip]

37. "Critical analysis."

[A-Schwarzenegger]

45. !

:hi:

[cali]

15. Yawn.

lazy, mindless little post.

[Echo In Light]

16. Interesting

"One of the most striking traits of the inner life of a crowd is the feeling of being persecuted, a peculiar angry sensitiveness and irritability directed against those it has once and forever nominated as enemies. These can behave in any manner, harsh or conciliatory, cold or sympathetic, severe or mild — whatever they do will be interpreted as springing from a malevolence, a premeditated intention to destroy the crowd openly, or by stealth." ~ Elias Canetti, Crowds and Power

[alcibiades_mystery]

19. But Canetti is actually much more partial to the "crowd" than his predecessors

The entire argument of Crowds and Power is that it is not crowds that are "mad" (as in the line of thought from Mackay, LeBon, Singhele, Tarde, and the like), but rather "leaders" (the paranoiacs). Crowds and Power is an argument against the common conception of crowds as merely destructive social forces; Canetti's corollary is that the individual (as the "survivor" and the "paranoiac") is always more dangerous than the crowd. You may want to reread the whole second half of the book from "The Entrails of Power" on.

In any case, Canetti refuses the easy opposition between "crowd" and "public" established early on (by, for example, American sociologist Robert Park): all publics are crowds moving at a slower speed. And, indeed, Canetti sees the crowd as a larger variant of the "pack," a group formation that he nearly completely approves of.

[mdmc]

17. Close your eyes cant happen here

Obama on white horse is near.

[Greyhound]

35. Amerika uber alles. Love that album. n/t

[mdmc]

44. DK!

Dennis Kucinich and the Dead Kennedys!:toast:

[alcibiades_mystery]

18. The notion of groupthink has been severely overestimated

It is a popular whipping boy for nearly all elements of society now: who defends so-called "groupthink?"

Nobody.

Which, ironically enough, means that something like absolute consensus has formed around the idea that "groupthink" is bad.

But if you look into the history of the concept, you will see that it is laden with all sorts of political presuppositions specific to its time. In the age of complexity theory, the notion of "groupthink" seems utterly devoid of meaning: groups do think (indeed, all thought is social), and often even well. The relationship between consensus and conflict is not oppositional and static, but continuous and dynamic.

The great irony of the stupid "groupthink" concept is that it is precisely placed to promote elitism: the mob is always stupid, while the heroic individual rises above by differing. It is Fuhrerprinzip dressed up in liberal individualism.

Let's take an example. Most people on this board at least pretend to love the moment when all the gladiators start announcing "I am Spartacus!" Isn't this an example of "groupthink," "mob mentality," or an "information cascade?" And, indeed, all those gladiators were crucified on the Appian Way, so it would very much seem like "lemmings going over a cliff together," or whatever other silly imagery we've designed to poo-poo so-called "groupthink." But nobody reads it this way. Rather, people read it as "speaking truth to power," or "solidarity," or some other such positive value. The point is not that "groupthink" is actually solidarity (although it very often is). Rather, the point is that what we call groupthink is always colored by our preconceived notion of the supposed group thought. When we like it, we call it solidarity. When we hate it, we suppose that everyone has lost their critical faculties. It's a fucking lie.

[conscious evolution]

22. I don't agree with you often

but here I do.
Groupthink in and of itself is not necessarily a bad thing.The word just describes a process.
The results of groupthink can vary,however,and ,depending on how you see the results,can lead to plenty of hindsight debate.


Sometimes I wonder if the Pukes work at destroying the education system is tied in with the idea of dumbing down the population in order to make it easier to control groupthink.

[B3Nut]

20. Lemmings

Peter Hammill/Van Der Graaf Generator
--

I stood alone upon the highest cliff-top,
looked down, around, and all that I could see
were those that I would dearly love to share with
crashing on quite blindly to the sea....
I tried to ask what game this was
but knew I would not play it:
the voice, as one, as no-one, came to me....

"We have looked upon the heroes and they are found wanting;
we have looked hard across the land but we can see no dawn;
we have now dared to sear the sky but we are still bleeding;
we are drawing near to the cliffs,
now we can hear the call.

The clouds are piled in mountain-shapes,
there is no escape except to go forward.
Don't ask us for an answer now,
it's far too late to bow to that convention.
What course is there left but to die?

We have looked upon the High Kings, found them less than mortals:
their names are dust before the just march of our young, new law.
Minds stumbling strong, we hurtle on into the dark portal;
No-one can halt our final vault
into the unknown maw.

And as the Elders beat their brows
they know that it is really far too late now to stop us,
for if the sky is seeded death
what is the point in catching breath? Expel it.
What cause is there left but to die
in searching of something we're really not too sure of?"

What cause is there left but to die?
I really don't know why.

I know our ends may be soon but why do you make them sooner?
Time may finally prove only the living move her and
no life lies in the quicksand.

Yes, I know it's
out of control, out of control:
greasy machinery slides on the rails,
young minds and bodies on steel spokes impaled.
Cogs tearing bones, cogs tearing bones;
iron-throated monsters are forcing the screams,
mind and machinery box-press the dreams.

But there still is time....

Cowards are they who run today, the fight is beginning...
no war with knives, fight with our lives, lemmings can teach nothing;
death offers no hope, we must grope for the unknown answer,
unite our blood, abate the flood,
avert the disaster.

There's other ways than screaming in the mob:
that makes us merely cogs of hatred.
Look to the why and where we are,
look to yourselves and the stars,yes, and in the end
what choice is there left but to live
in the hope of saving
our children's children's little ones?

What choice is there left but to live
to save the little ones?

What choice is there left but to try?

--

[HughBeaumont]

47. One of my FAVORITES!

[helderheid]

21. WOW, you're back!

:hi: :rofl:

[LanternWaste]

23. unwittingly practice on a daily basis.

Yup... something we all do-- even the anarchists and trendy anti-authoritarians unwittingly practice it on a daily basis.

[blindpig]

24. Baaa

Racing to the slaughter.

[SidneyCarton]

25. Cute, really cute.

So, better that we act like a herd of feral cats, scattered, divided, all focused on our own agendas. Great, tell me how that works out for you. Last time I checked focus and compromise is how we build a mass movement, to face off against the goosestepping morons on the other side.

Maybe we are a bunch of lemmings, or maybe you are walking off a cliff all by yourself. But never mind, don't listen to the rest of us, go off on your own, you obviously know better than everyone else.

[LWolf]

26. This ought to be a trainwreck.

I can't wait to watch the gang all come together to wage war on the concept of groupthink.

:popcorn:

[ColbertWatcher]

28. We're at war with groupthink? I thought we were always at war with groupthink. n/t

[LWolf]

29. To be more specific,

to wage war on the concept that party loyalty or obama loyalty is groupthink.

[ColbertWatcher]

30. Is that what this is about?

People are talking about loyalty to Obama, but no mention of the GOP obedience to the party?

Hmm...

[LWolf]

33. I think it's open to interpretation.

On purpose.

Questioning party or candidate groupthink on the part of Democrats is dicey on a board that has party loyalty rules.

I don't see much discussion of groupthink, or dissent, on the part of republicans on DU, though. These days, the primary wars have evolved into the dissenters vs loyalty oathers/purgers.

[ColbertWatcher]

34. Ah. OK. n/t

[TexasObserver]

31. The whole Lemming story is a fraud. They don't do it.

[RandomKoolzip]

36. Yeah, but if everyone agreed with YOU about everything, you'd think it was pretty cool.

[T.Ruth2power]

40. Not at all

Quite the contrary.

People should always question.

[skooooo]

38. Which Side Are You On?

http://www.geocities.com/Nashville/3448/whichsid.html
(Sung) By Woody Guthrie

Come all you good workers,
Good news to you I'll tell
Of how the good old union
Has come in here to dwell.

CHORUS:
Which side are you on?
Which side are you on?
Which side are you on?
Which side are you on?

My daddy was a miner,
And I'm a miner's son,
And I'll stick with the union
'Til every battle's won.

They say in Harlan County
There are no neutrals there.
You'll either be a union man
Or a thug for J. H. Blair.

Oh workers can you stand it?
Oh tell me how you can?
Will you be a lousy scab
Or will you be a man?

Don't scab for the bosses,
Don't listen to their lies.
Us poor folks haven't got a chance
Unless we organize.

[LWolf]

46. I'm stuck in the middle with you. n/t

[Telly Savalas]

39. FUNYUNS

is the brand name of an onion-flavored corn chip introduced in 1969. The 'chips' are ring-shaped, like onion rings. They are a product of the Frito-Lay Company. They were named "Funyuns" by University of North Texas professor and copywriter Jim Albright after it was discovered that the first choice of name for the product, "OnYums", had already been taken.

Funyuns are deep-fried rings of enriched corn meal-based material that are coated with pungent, pale yellowish, onion-flavored powder.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funyuns

[EbenezerMcIntosh]

43. I understand what you are saying.

Good point and it is relevant to DU.

[Moochy]

48. Une homonym de plume?

Vous voulez compliquer la sauce?