There are lots more people with college degrees in the US than there are jobs that require a degree.

[raccoon]

IMO this was true when I was a young adult (late 60's).

Yes, of course, higher education is necessary. But to a large extent, it's a racket.

Your thoughts?

[no_hypocrisy]

1. Tell me about it.

Until 2001, I worked as an overnight answering service representative for nearly 9 years with a B.A., an M.A., and a J.D.

[bean fidhleir]

9. Well, girls are supposed to get a "Mrs degree", not any of those you worked your ass off to earn

So naturally your achievements were devalued down to nothing.

(I hope you're now successfully lawyering, finally)

[no_hypocrisy]

14. Yeah, I didn't wait in the "fattening hut" for my husband to be chosen for me.

And yes and no about the lawyering. I'm working as a paralegal right now, as an appentice if you will for the future "one day" I can go out on my own.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

26. Sounds familiar.

I have an A.A.S., a B.A. and a J.D.

Tried to find a job as a paralegal but gave up looking as the catch-22 now is "recent legal experience". I grew up in the legal profession and worked at the courthouse for quite a few years and saw many hundreds of trials and hearings, took depositions, etc.

But they don't give a shit about how competent you are.

[Crazy Dave]

2. I did a post last week on the old saying...

"They can never take away your education" but they can take away your job and/or lower your wages.

You are correct. Sure there are some fields that still have demand and pay well but in four to five years as the schools and their recruiters market those, then those trades will be soon be flooded with applicants and the wages will go down.

I know two out of work, registered civil engineers and not only does it take 4+ years of collage, you have to have a lot of experience with an engineering firm to take the test.

But wait....it does look like the government plans on taking away education too...

"Duval schools will cut 22 teacher slots"

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/070308/met_299022767.shtml

[raccoon]

5. Can you give me a link? nt

[Crazy Dave]

13. To the thread?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3543060

[undeterred]

3. Two advanced degrees and unemployed.

Some of us "deflate" our resumes to get hired.

[Crazy Dave]

8. I've already done that

Twice I've called several companies who were looking for a CAD tech specifically in my area of expertise. Twice they were all happy, giddy and telling me I couldn't get my resume there soon enough to set up an interview. And twice I never heard back from them and followed up with a phone call. The tone of their voice then was very cold and rude saying, "oh yeah, we got it, we'll call you if we want to set up an interview". At least once a guy was honest enough to tell me that he knew he wouldn't be able to afford me as he only pays his top CAD techs $14 an hour. I told him I made that in '98 as an entry level CAD tech and that he was ripping his workers off, (since he wasn't going to hire me anyways).

[dipsydoodle]

4. The more people there are at college

the more that unemployment figures are artificially deflated.

[jody]

6. Some of those degrees have little value in jobs with specific requirements. n/t

[rox63]

7. I've had 20 good years in IT, based on an Associates degree from Community College

I did take a few additional courses since then. But I never got a 4 year degree. I'm about to go back to school for a 2nd Associates degree, to make a career change to Health Care. Community Colleges have been very good to me. They are inexpensive, and they are mostly career-focused. I have never been unwillingly out of work for more than a month at a time since I graduated with the first degree. I've had my current IT job for 7.5 years.

[patrice]

10. Wrong kinds of degrees? Nursing & Teaching go begging for qualified people. nt

[Crazy Dave]

24. Teaching?

Our local school board just cut 22 teaching jobs. If my sister-in-law wasn't bi-lingual she'd probably be out of work too.
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/070308/met_299022767.shtml

[Echo In Light]

11. Long ago I was a floor janitor at a small liberal arts college for ten yrs

Meaning I stripped/waxed floors, shampoo carpets, shit like that ... so it was my experience, from those students and staff I got to know, and from general observation, that yeah, it's def a racket, a cultural 'right of entitlement' of sorts that kids are programmed to believe in, yet many of them hadn't a clue about anything beyond playing the game by the rules/jumping through hoops so they'd get that "good job." ... which largely didn't materialize. I have extended family members in the same boat. Nice degree ... framed, it looks impressive on a wall.

There are numerous jobs that, because the people doing the hiring have likewise been impacted by the cultural propaganda, establish these college requirements merely as a way of ensuring their employees will be on the same page, so to speak, {hearts and minds} yet the job's tasks aren't anything that would require yrs of training.

[frogcycle]

12. there are tons of occupations

that should not need the typical 4-year liberal arts degree

vocational schools and 2-year 'community colleges" used to provide a lot of folks for such jobs; I don't know how much that remains true.

A lot of the 4-year college education is not learning a trade, but, rather, learning about the world. History, the arts, etc. make one "well-rounded," give one "better judgement." Yeah, right. A lot of people go to college to party, skate through, and are not much better a person four years later than they were going in. Then they get a job selling stocks - "financial advisor" - ha! or manipulating oil futures or something.

They'd have done better to go to trade school and learned to be a plumber or carpenter or welder or something.

[elocs]

15. I got my B.S. in 1975 and have never worked a job which required a degree.

Ironically, having a degree has helped me to get a number of jobs which did not require one. Why? Because it indicated that I follow through and finish what I start. I have certainly lost hundreds of thousands of dollars in lost wages, but I can live quite comfortably making very little money.

I think a 4 year university degree is over-hyped for the majority of people. I have a friend who when I met her 16 years ago she had 2 kids and was on welfare and was attending the local university. She flunked out and decided to go to a 2 year technical college and within a couple of years after graduating she was making $50,000/year. That changed her family forever.

[endarkenment]

16. Of course then there is the data.

There is considerable support for the notion that the rate of return on investment in higher education is high enough to warrant the financial burden associated with pursuing a college degree. Though the earnings differential between college and high school graduates varies over time, college graduates, on average, earn more than high school graduates. According to the Census Bureau, over an adult's working life, high school graduates earn an average of $1.2 million; associate's degree holders earn about $1.6 million; and bachelor's degree holders earn about $2.1 million (Day and Newburger, 2002).
These sizeable differences in lifetime earnings put the costs of college study in realistic perspective. Most students today-- about 80 percent of all students--enroll either in public 4-year colleges or in public 2-year colleges. According to the U.S. Department of Education report, Think College Early, a full-time student at a public 4-year college pays an average of $8,655 for in-state tuition, room and board (U.S. Dept. of Education, 2002). A full-time student in a public 2-year college pays an average of $1,359 per year in tuition (U.S. Dept. of Education, 2002).

These statistics support the contention that, though the cost of higher education is significant, given the earnings disparity that exists between those who earn a bachelor's degree and those who do not, the individual rate of return on investment in higher education is sufficiently high to warrant the cost.

http://www.ericdigests.org/2003-3/value.htm

Or in a nice graph here:

http://people.moreheadstate.edu/fs/b.maxwell/files/THE%20ECONOMIC%20VALUE%20OF%20HIGHER%20EDUCATION.doc

And as always YMMV.

[Demit]

17. And it's escalating. More companies asking for grad degrees—the BA is the new high school diploma.

So kids stay in school to earn the advanced degrees, to be better positioned for jobs that don't really require them—it's just a way for companies to make applicants ultimately accept lower wages—because they 'only' have a BA.

[Stinky The Clown]

18. One aspect of the false hope that is "The American Dream".

Get educated so you can get a good job.

Uh huh.

[aspergris]

19. True, but..

College is not specifically a vocational school. It is a place to be exposed to varied ideas, different people, and to get into subjects with more depth than you generally do in high school.

Whether or not a job requires a college degree is one thing. But for many jobs, the college education still helps your performance, even if not officially required.

I believe in a liberal arts education- the classics, a foreign language, etc.

[LibDemAlways]

20. There are a lot of jobs that don't necessitate a degree, but

the employer wants a candidate who has one anyway. My brother was hired right out of college as a management trainee for a local business that promptly put him to work doing a job that any kid in high school could have done. He quit pretty rapidly. Lack of a degree can also be a detriment later in life as my highly paid sister-in-law found out when she was unexpectedly demoted at work. Why? Her new boss explained that he wanted someone with a college education doing the job she had done successfully for many years without one.

[HughBeaumont]

21. The problem with the MBA is that it's slowly becoming as valuable as today's Bachelors is.

More and more college-age students realize that having a bachelors simply isn't enough for a competitive edge any longer. Yet with each student getting that Masters, along with all of the current workers that have to return to school to get them, how do they stand out from the thousands upon thousands of others in the job pool with grad degrees?

All of a sudden, you're no longer special regardless of what position you apply for. The MBA has gone from an applicant's advantage to merely a requirement to remain employable. Where does this end? When we're all getting PhDs just to be a Financial Analyst I?

[skooooo]

22. It got me where I needed to go.

I've got no complaints about my education.

[NeedleCast]

23. Very true in IT field from what I've seen

I don't have a degree. I do have five years experience from the Army that has proven to be, IMO, better than a degree in an IT field when it comes to what employers really want, which is basically experience. Most of the job postings I see in the IT field have experience requirements but many don't have a degree requirement.

[Kat45]

25. These days they want a BA for what is essentially secretarial work.

You know, the kind of job you thought you'd avoid by going to college and getting a degree.