Autism: Google it. Read about it. It ain't going away. It's going to

[Ilsa]

get "worse" as far as people encountering more autistics out in public. And I don't mean autistic as in a person just having poor eye contact, but a person with poor language skills, self-help skills, behavior control skills, impulsivity, etc.

Families do all they can to help their kids, but we don't have all the answers yet. We are trying all the best meds, behavior interventions, dietary controls and supplements, etc. Parents generally don't take their moderately autistic kids out in public unless they have to, but sometimes we FUCKING HAVE TO, GODDAMMIT!

Stop trying to undo diagnoses you know nothing about, claiming they are "fraudulent" and "Doctors are diagnosing it or ADHD too much". Would you make such a claim to someone in a wheelchair? The fact of the matter is that you don't know WHICH kids might be over-diagnosed and which may be on the Spectrum! You are not the child's parent, teacher, or doctor.

Have a little patience with other people who are having a hard life, for crying out loud. Get over your so-called right to be perfectly comfortable in public every minute. And be damned grateful you don't have to walk in the shoes of the autistic child or his or her parents.

Yeah I'm pissed. Maybe I'll get over it by tomorrow.

[Warpy]

1. I have to admit that story annoyed the hell out of me, too

because autistic and CP kids are going to make some noise. It doesn't mean they're misbehaving or a threat to anyone, it's just the way they are.

At least the cops came through with a hotel room for them.

[MannyGoldstein]

3. Which Story Is That? n/t

[KamaAina]

4. A child with autism was tossed off a Southwest plane

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3385049&mesg_id=3385049

as I pointed out in one of several other threads on this, it is the second such incident in the last couple of weeks -- on different airlines!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=7897809&mesg_id=7898169

One wonders if they'll soon be singling out adults with autism for this sort of treatment; guess I won't be seeing any of you at the next DU meetup... :scared:

[MannyGoldstein]

7. Ugh.

Very difficult situation. Obviously the family needs to be able to travel. However, if the kids were physically unable to be reasonably restrained (which I actually tend to doubt), then the airlines also have a point.

One of the many crappy things about our health care system is that nobody sits patients/caregivers down to tell them how to best cope with things like this that come up in life. Almost seems like people who have traveled that route before should be mentors to the newly-diagnosed and their caregivers.

[Ilsa]

13. Most of us barely take our kids out into public, much less try an

airplane trip. I admire this mother for trying.

People need to get over being offended and inconvenienced. Shit, I missed a big barbeque for my best friend's daughter who was getting married because of weather delays and airline screwups. Did I get in a huff? No, because I understand that I don't have the right to not be offended or inconvenienced. I realize that these things, including sick people, are part of public transportation, like airlines.

I just hate that there was so many bozos going off saying that the parent(s) of an autistic child should have been better able to control their child. It's such total bullshit. If they spent one half day in a classroom with these kids, they'd finally get it.

I don't take my son to fly because he can get violent. If he was just making loud funny noises, I'd say "screw it!" and take him on a trip.

[sakura]

19. Where is your child on the autism spectrum, if I may ask?

Asperger's type?
"Classic"?
Rett?

[Ilsa]

47. PDD-NOS. Low language skills - almost absent.

Can't discern and tell me "I'm hungry," or "I hurt." We still are working on all the most important things, though. HE can answer simple sentences yes or no, we think.

[skooooo]

58. *crickets* nt

[sakura]

68. Wow. That must be difficult.

I really feel for you-- it must be frustrating to not be able to fully understand what he needs.

[tavalon]

38. Oh, did someone write our story?

My husband and wife were coming out to visit me a few years ago (before we all moved out here) and kiddo had never been good on a plane. Wife was nervous about sedating him but they got thrown off the plane. They went back the next day with kiddo sedated. I wrote a scathing letter to Southwest and they gave me a free roundtrip. Needless to say, I still harbor some animosity towards Southwest - it wasn't completely alleviated by SWA saying they were shitheads.

[MilesColtrane]

56. Difference between making noise and running through the aisle of a plane.

The family wasn't put off the flight because it inconvenienced the passengers or crew. They were denied reboarding because not having passengers strapped into their seats at certain times during the flight is unsafe.

[maddezmom]

2. I hear ya Ilsa

:hug:

[mdmc]

5. r

peace and low stress

[AndyTiedye]

6. If Southwest Doesn't Want Our Business, Let's Not Give It To Them

[kiranon]

8. Thank you IIsa.

[rucky]

9. Preach it!

The way I see it, it's OUR job to try and adapt to their world - not the other way around.

[KT2000]

10. So correct Ilsa

You should be pissed. Autism is also just part of the picture of the future. In 1990 Congress declared the 90's the Decade of the Brain. That was due to a report by the Office of Technology Assessment - "Neurotoxicity: Identifying and Controlling Poisons of the nervous System."
They warned of the endangered hippocampus from the chemical assaults in various forms.

Reagan disbanded the OTA and the report has so far served to give industry a heads up on where to fight objections to dangerous products. I go to big box stores and see people put their kids in carts that are also used to carry lawn chemicals (2-4,D, Dicamba, MCPA and MCPP - all known neurotoxins and sensitizers). I see neighborhoods drowning in the stuff.
I know that schools are sprayed with pesticides without notifying parents - even of children with health problems. I see families adorn their houses with air freshener products that are also neurotoxic. I see parents use fabric softer sheets that are made with chloroform!

There will be many people with various forms of brain damage. Alzheimer's/dementia will no longer be just a disease of the elderly. We need to get used to it now unless people are willing to fight for a commitment for a safer environment but the fact is - people do not care that much.

[Ilsa]

14. This was the first Spring I was able to convince my husband to

NOT fertilize the f#$%ing lawn. I hate that crap! It's bad for the water, estuaries, bay, gulf of mexico. I tell him that if the yard dies, so what. We should put something more native in the yard anyway.

Sometimes I remember the campy movie The Incredible Shrinking Woman starring Lily Thomlin. She was poisoned by household chemicals and shrank out of existence. We are killing ourselves with this stuff, and I think it is mostly hurting fetuses that are genetically predisposed to environmental assault.

[KT2000]

16. Good move on ther fertilizer

you are not going to believe this but fertilizer is allowed to have toxic wastes. They use toxic wastes from manufacturing processes as filler. The limits allowed are set by states.

Here is a good site to look up chemicals for your yard. MSDS sheets are prepared by a company's legal dept - not health professionals. We have to search out the real health effects on our own.
http://www.beyondpesticides.org/gateway/about.htm

Ilsa - I don't have any kids but I know what is happening with autism. This year I lobbied my state legislator about toxic chemicals in children's products for a pending bill. I talked a bit about neurotoxic damage that is being done to our children but he really sat up and it sank in when I said that these children will grow up to be adults. Are we aiming for one in 150 adults in any given age group being autistic adults??
He actually jumped in his seat.

Chemical companies are now using the WTO to stop such laws meant to protect children's health - they say such laws pose a trade barrier.
We all need to be louder about this.

[rucky]

77. Now I've got the Galaxy Glue jingle stuck in my head.

thanks.

[whistle]

11. I may be overreacting, but hasn't George Bush behaved this way throughout both terms

...as president?

[Ilsa]

12. I think he has a form of expressive aphasia. That's why his syntax

is always garbled. I don't believe he is stupid; just ignorant and incurious on top of having brain damage. He also has a rigid mindset, which hinders his ability to learn anything new when the world isn't acting the way his paradigm says it should.

But autistic? no. He's been brought up to believe he is an "american blueblood", which contributes to his sense of entitlement and pompousness. He may also have reading/learning disabilities.

[eridani]

20. Bush was alway thought to be a very aware social manipulator

People anywhere on the autism spectrum don't have a clue about how to do that.

[EFerrari]

22. My ex was an Aspie and he could be very manipulative

just not in the way you normally think of it.

It wasn't so much a decision as a survival mechanism that kicked in when he was distressed. It was projective, somewhat in his awareness and usually turned out very badly for him.

[pnwmom]

24. Yeah, but you know Bush ain't no aspie. It's an insult to everyone

on the autism range to be compared to him.

[EFerrari]

26. The trouble with talking in broad terms is they get really baggy

really fast.

[eridani]

27. But could he have even gotten through a typical fraternity rush week?

Bush did, obviously.

[pnwmom]

29. Bush was a classic "glad-hander" at Yale, always at ease in social situations.

He's nothing like an aspie.

[EFerrari]

31. He never seems really at ease, which is a lot like some Aspies.

He always looks like he's making it up as he goes along, which is also a lot like some Aspies.

He seems to have a singular lack of empathy, also like some Aspies.

And he's as pragmatic as hell, also a lot like some Aspies.

He's probably not an Aspie but he has something going on in that direction.

[proud2BlibKansan]

39. He's learning disabled

It's always been pretty obvious to me and most of the other sped teachers I know.

[pnwmom]

42. I agree. He IS learning disabled, and he also

has at least one personality disorder (narcissism) and possibly also psychopathic personality.

[proud2BlibKansan]

51. Yes I believe you are correct

Although I am not a psychologist. But I have talked to a couple who believe he has some very serious mental disorders, probably as a result of the death of his little sister when he was young.

[pnwmom]

78. His mother also appears to be a narcissist. Remember, among other things,

that horrible comment about the Katrina victims being lucky to be in the stadium? She has zero natural empathy, just like her son.

[pnwmom]

41. Most of the time -- when he's joking around with the guys and not trying

to pretend he's serious or a humanitarian -- he's glib and comfortable. It's when he tries to appear deeply caring and empathic that he fails miserably.

It's true that people on the autism spectrum also lack empathy. But his lack of empathy is due to his profound narcissism, not being an aspie. His grandiosity, his extreme lack of empathy, his need to surround himself with yes-men and to wall himself off from any contact with people who might disturb his opinion of himself, his unbelievable self-confidence and the strengths of his beliefs all have roots in his narcissism. To him, he is the king of the universe -- there is no truth but him -- and anyone that threatens that belief must be be crushed or eliminated.

He probably also has some functional learning disability, that affects his reading skills and his speech.

[EFerrari]

64. The other thing I remembered last night was all those accidents he has

and how inappropriate his proxemics are. Also like some aspies. But, I'm not Frist so I wouldn't know.

[pnwmom]

79. I'm not Frist either, but

anyone who has known a genuine narcissist, as I have (alas), will recognize the hallmarks in Bush.

As to the accidents, I suspect continuing alcohol or drug issues. We'll never know.

[EFerrari]

30. There are thousands of people all over the place

that have no idea that the person they paid to see had anything like that. It depends what you mean by "getting through".:shrug:

I don't know what's up with little Bush aside from the fact that he seems to be a sociopath.

[pnwmom]

23. No, he's not a victim of autism. He can "read" people very well.

He's incomparably worse -- he's a malignant narcissist, manipulating people for his own gratification.

[lumberjack_jeff]

81. Yes, he's 180° different.

"But wasn't Ted Bundy autistic?" :grr:

[whistle]

67. I learn something new every day on DU: AUTISM AND ASPERGER'S SYNDROME (Aspie)

...Thanks everyone

<snip>
What Is Asperger Syndrome?
By Barbara L. Kirby
Founder of the OASIS Web site (www.aspergersyndrome.org)

Co-author of THE OASIS GUIDE TO ASPERGER SYNDROME (Crown, 2001, Revised 2005)
Asperger Syndrome or (Asperger's Disorder) is a neurobiological disorder named for a Viennese physician, Hans Asperger, who in 1944 published a paper which described a pattern of behaviors in several young boys who had normal intelligence and language development, but who also exhibited autistic-like behaviors and marked deficiencies in social and communication skills. In spite of the publication of his paper in the 1940's, it wasn't until 1994 that Asperger Syndrome was added to the DSM IV and only in the past few years has AS been recognized by professionals and parents.

Individuals with AS can exhibit a variety of characteristics and the disorder can range from mild to severe. Persons with AS show marked deficiencies in social skills, have difficulties with transitions or changes and prefer sameness. They often have obsessive routines and may be preoccupied with a particular subject of interest. They have a great deal of difficulty reading nonverbal cues (body language) and very often the individual with AS has difficulty determining proper body space. Often overly sensitive to sounds, tastes, smells, and sights, the person with AS may prefer soft clothing, certain foods, and be bothered by sounds or lights no one else seems to hear or see. It's important to remember that the person with AS perceives the world very differently. Therefore, many behaviors that seem odd or unusual are due to those neurological differences and not the result of intentional rudeness or bad behavior, and most certainly not the result of "improper parenting".

By definition, those with AS have a normal IQ and many individuals (although not all), exhibit exceptional skill or talent in a specific area. Because of their high degree of functionality and their naiveté, those with AS are often viewed as eccentric or odd and can easily become victims of teasing and bullying. While language development seems, on the surface, normal, individuals with AS often have deficits in pragmatics and prosody. Vocabularies may be extraordinarily rich and some children sound like "little professors." However, persons with AS can be extremely literal and have difficulty using language in a social context.

At this time there is a great deal of debate as to exactly where AS fits. It is presently described as an autism spectrum disorder and Uta Frith, in her book AUTISM AND ASPERGER'S SYNDROME, described AS individuals as "having a dash of Autism". Some professionals feel that AS is the same as High Functioning Autism, while others feel that it is better described as a Nonverbal Learning Disability. AS shares many of the characteristics of PDD-NOS (Pervasive Developmental Disorder; Not otherwise specified), HFA, and NLD and because it was virtually unknown until a few years ago, many individuals either received an incorrect diagnosis or remained undiagnosed. For example, it is not at all uncommon for a child who was initially diagnosed with ADD or ADHD be re-diagnosed with AS. In addition, some individuals who were originally diagnosed with HFA or PDD-NOS are now being given the AS diagnosis and many individuals have a dual diagnosis of Asperger Syndrome and High Functioning Autism.

http://www.udel.edu/bkirby/asperger/aswhatisit.html

[Skittles]

15. I have an autistic brother

it's how in part I got my kick-ass reputation - saying, "WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU STARING AT" to rude strangers

[demigoddess]

18. good for you

i have a daughter who is severely retarded, and sometimes she used to get self-abusive in public and cry. she especially got upset if she heard an adult yell at a child. I've even had doctors who do not want to be in her presence and yet little kids can sometimes be so cute, usually they just want a reason, "why can't she walk" and I tell them she was born that way and it makes them happy. Parents have a different attitude but for the most part we live in a good area for tolerance.

[Skittles]

36. I think the natural curiosity of a child is often supressed

when folks with disabilities are around - they are told to hush and not stare instead of given an explanation of what it is they see. You are correct, given an explanation they are usually pretty satisfied. Many adults are another story (it infuriates me when adults stare and point and say stupid shit).

[MercutioATC]

17. Southwest did the right thing. It's a SAFETY issue.

The reason people have to stay in their seats is that if the plane hits turbulence, they become projectiles.

Even a 50-pound child can do a lot of damage to other passengers.

Yes, they could have been more compassionate about lodging, but if the child(ren) would not stay seated, Southwest had the obligationto refuse to let them board another flight.

[pnwmom]

25. What are the facts that lead you to say that? The articles I found when

I googled weren't specific at all as to the behavior that led to the family being kicked off. And the family did fly successfully on another airline.

[SteelPenguin]

49. They admit it themselves on this video

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/07/07/dnt.family.off.plane.kiro

I have compassion for them and how difficult that flight must have been, but if they can't keep their children in their seats, then I don't see why I should risk my, and my childrens safety. Not to mention it's dangerous for their children to be running around loose in the cabin.

If the children were just loud, I wouldn't have a problem with it, but if they can't follow specific safety rules, you can't expect Southwest to continue to offer them service.

I've crossed the country, on Southwest, with kids making alot of noise, but my wife and I were constantly doing everything we could to mititgate it the entire flight, including keeping the eldest restrained in their seat. At the end of the flight the people behind us, and the flight crew were empathetic and thanked us for trying to hard to keep the kids settled. I've seen it multiple times. People get irritated by loud kids on flights, but as long as the parents are attempting to keep them under control, even if they're failing, people generally don't get angry. It's only when the kids are totally out of control, and the parents aren't doing anything about it, that people really get angry.

[EFerrari]

21. Arm chair moms are my favorite tonight.

You go, Ilsa!

:)

[skooooo]

59. Yes because the rest of us don't have a right to an opinion. nt

[EFerrari]

65. No. But unless you've handled a person who isn't

available to you in a crowded public setting and that on top of the daily stress of living with someone like that, it's hard to know what it's like.

There was one post on this or another thread that was full of suggestions for calming down kids. Half of them wouldn't work on a stressed out autistic kid and the rest of them cost money.

[pnwmom]

28. I also was disappointed with all the ignorant DU comments related to

that southwest incident. Since most autistic kids seem to be mainstreamed these days, you'd think most parents of "normal" would have learned something about them by now. At least, they could show a little compassion for the stressed out mother. Imagine trying to take care of several kids including one with autism and one with cerebral palsy. Parents who live with that kind of daily burden are quiet heroes, in my book.

[Skittles]

35. don't say normal, say average

yes INDEED.....if I had been on that flight I would have offered the mom my assistance - the reason I know is because I've done it before. :)

[pnwmom]

43. I put it in quotes because I meant it ironically --

in other words, "so-called normal." But I bow to your wisdom on the subject.

:hi:

[lumberjack_jeff]

82. There are days I should not read DU.

That thread represents one of those days.

I really don't give a flying fuck how my son's disability impairs anyones quality of life except his. Period.

[earth mom]

32. Sing it! I'm with you 100% This entire thing is total b.s. and I hope the parents sue the airlines

a$$es off!

Meanwhile people say that there is no Autism epidemic, they are just "diagnosing" these kids better! WTF?!

Sorry, but it's near impossible to NOT notice Autism!!!

Wake up America, it could be YOUR family member next!

[WillowTree]

33. It's one thing to say "Have a little patience"...

....and something else altogether to expect that people will be tolerant of children who are out of control, regardless of the reason, in a cramped, enclosed space for three hours or more. That story wasn't about a 20 minute bus ride, it was about a cross-country plane trip.

I sincerely sympathize with your situation, but really, you could stand to practice a little understanding and tolerance yourself.

[Ilsa]

46. I've put up with the yelling kids on flights myself for those three hour

trips. I've even offered to change seats with someone less tolerant so they could be further away. I'm pretty tolerant, and I know alot about helping kids and babies calm down. I was able to do this. Flying is about travelling with strangers and being able to make concessions.

I've been chastised on an airline for not being able to quiet my crying eight month old baby on descent (he was trying to equalize ear pressure). I was doing everything I could to help my baby. That's how intolerable many passengers are, berating me for having a crying baby. Let's face it: it isn't just the kids that are spoiled. There are plenty of adults that seem to think they get to have everything their way regardless of the impact on others.

[WillowTree]

34. Dupe. Self-delete.

[tavalon]

37. Actually, I differ

I take my autistic son out in public all the time. Until last week, I had only experienced one person with a negative attitude (I'm told it happens far more to others. I don't know if I just tune it out or people just recognize that I'm a Leo and therefore not to be messed with). The one last week kind of bothered me, not because of the attitude but because my son inadvertently scared him. He's started obsessing on car door handles again and he bolted to check out the guys car door handle. The guy didn't recognize that he was autistic, he just knew someone had just invaded his personal space. I sprinted up right behind him and apologized for and explained my son's behavior. The guy smiled and that was it.

My kiddo is severely impacted but that doesn't mean he needs to be a shut in. I decline that one for him even if it makes a few people out there a wee bit upset. Getting used to those who are different is good for people and having my son go out in public is good for him.

[Ilsa]

48. That's really great that you are able to take him out.

My child started hitting me in public for no obvious reason last week. The people around us were shocked that I was hitting him back, as if that would help. My husband almost had the police called on him out in public one time. We had to put together a plan for what we would do if one of us was mistakenly arrested while the other was unavailable.

[tavalon]

61. My guy can be a handful at times and his favorite trick used to be sitting down in the store

and refusing to move. Hated that one. Not enjoying the current resurgence of fascination with car door handles. Glad he's done with sprinting for no earthly reason that I can figure out and very happy that the biting faze has come and gone. Two hour tantrums ended when we started him on an antiseizure med (I'll admit I took him out less back then!). Yeah, these kids are tough but lovable even while oblique.

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. Parents need to teach their kids how to act in public places

I didn't read all the responses on that other thread so I can't comment on what other DUers said, but I am a special ed teacher and kids who scream and act out in public are never going to be viewed compassionately by the people they are annoying. That doesn't make the lack of compassion okay; but it is a fact of life. So parents need to teach their kids how to behave without annoying people. We work hard on this at school. It isn't an impossible task. I am also often amazed by how children we have few problems with at school are holy terrors for their parents. Even severely disabled kids know how to push Mom's buttons.

[woo me with science]

44. Thank you.

From some of the comments here, I think some people expect all children with disabilities to act like Helen Keller in Act I of "The Miracle Worker," .....with their hands in everybody else's dinner plates.

Autism is not a trump card. There are a lot of variables that aren't clear, since we weren't on the plane. It's silly, from this vantage point, for people to get on a high horse.

[Ilsa]

45. Yeah, they push the buttons.

We are working on not hitting now. It comes out of nowhere, but we have been working on this for months now. I turned the car around yesterday when we were going to the movies because he started hitting. My son's ABA / ABLES sp-ed teacher is at a loss as to how to predict its onset and stop this phase. My other son is bearing the brunt of not having much of a social life.

We do everything we can to teach him not to annoy other people. Sometimes people complain when they aren't even being bothered because "Your kid isn't acting 'right'" and they proceed to offer some ancient vague advice about the Bible having all the answers to childraising, just because he is different. They love blaming the parents. They need to make some adjustments, too.

[Robyn66]

50. I am so sick and tired of people who say

we need to teach our children to ACT RIGHT. When my daughter (with aspergers) was younger, I would say up until about 6th grade she was MORBIDLY AFRAID of the Grinch that Stole Christmas. I mean if she saw a picture, heard the song, or if someone said the word GRINCH she would scream, cry, runaway or have a horrific melt down if she couldn't get away from it. So taking her anywhere during the Holidays was a challenge. She has several triggers like that (some still at age 12) We got more than our share of snickers and odd looks and parents whispering to each other when we were trying to live a normal life by functioning in society. And she has had more than her share of Bullying! If it were within my abilities to teach her to ACT RIGHT I would but there are limits to what she is capable of, and people in this country have got to get that. Autistic people need some kind of protection under the law so that someday, when we are not there to protect them they aren't victimized by these people who don't understand that these people's brains do not work the same way as theirs do. In my opinion, in a lot of ways the Autistic/Aspi brain is superior to our sad little neuro typical brain but unfortunately there are more of us than them in the world.

[Ilsa]

54. So, so sorry about your daughter. What a awful thing, to have

Christmas turn into a fearful time. My kids only have seen the original grinch, so he doesn't bother them.

At nine months, my son was afraid of the silver jet airplane they showed at the end of the Oprah Winfrey Show. Or maybe it was the animated "HARPO" train she pulled afterwards, or maybe it was the music that went with the animation (about three measures of music). That fear lasted until I stopped watching Oprah.

[proud2BlibKansan]

52. Here's how I see it

You can't control how people treat your kids or how they react. But you can at least try to control your own child. I am certainly not implying that you don't control yours. It sounds like you are doing all you can. But unfortunately there are parents who don't try to teach their children how to behave. And we all suffer because of that.

[Ilsa]

53. Yeah, there are plenty that don't even try. And they give

everyone else with other difficulties a bad rap. We try everything that has a semblence of working.

[Midlodemocrat]

73. Not remotely applicable 100% of the time.

Every single parent I've ever encountered both when I was in private practice and when volunteering in special ed classrooms was doing the best damned job they could with the hand they've been dealt.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

55. Fuck 'em.

You do a disservice to autistic children, and their parents, who don't act like animals.

[lumberjack_jeff]

83. You have no clue what you're talking about. n/t

[bdamomma]

57. Ilsa this is for you

:hug:

[Debbi801]

60. There's a saying: If you've met one child with autism, you've met one child with autism...

There aren't any hard/fast autism stereotypes that can be used to define these kids or adults.

My 6 year old is an Aspie (and he's been dx'd twice by different groups of doctors, so I'm pretty confident about the dx). Granted, he is young enough that things might change, but right now, he "gets" enough to know that when he is buckled in a car seat or buckled into a seat on an air plane, he doesn't get to unbuckle himself and get out of his seat. This is a huge safety issue that has been drilled into him. Luckily, he is very rules oriented and thanks to constant repetition of rules, lots of social stories, and lots of diligence, he follows those rules. If these kids were out of their seats and uncontrollable, I don't disagree with the airline's decision. As I said, it's a safety issue.

We know our son is ok for about a 2 hour flight before we hit possible melt downs. So, we limit any travel to that long of a time. And we bring lots of things for him to hyper-focus on for that period of time (DVD player, game boy, leapster, all the things that keep him semi-sitting still). We know what sensory issues set him off, so we try to be mindful of his surroundings. No, we can't foresee everything. But, if he started having a meltdown pre-flight, we would see about postponing it until he was calm again.

For us, it is all about prep work and social stories. We spend weeks talking about the schedule/routine change, the flight, the time spent in the airport, etc. Going through security is the worse, it terrifies him and sends him spiraling into a meltdown. So, we make sure we are there with plenty of time to recover before getting onto the plane. We try very hard to make things as sensory acceptable to him as possible. And, because he can be a flight risk when walking, we keep him in a stroller while going through the airport.

But even with preparation, there are plenty of times we either don't go someplace or we leave him at home with a sitter because it is easier. And luckily, we don't have the violence to tend with. I've seen the violent episodes with other autistic kids. That totally changes everything.

[proud2BlibKansan]

62. My kids weren't autistic

But my youngest was severe ADD. Couldn't sit still for more than a quick minute, screamed (ear piercing screams), threw massive temper tantrums, rarely slept more than a few hours at a time and was (unfortunately) cute as a bug in a rug and played that for all it was worth.

Until he was 5, nothing we did worked well. We started taking him to psychologists and counselors and behavioral therapists when he was 2. But until he was old enough for meds, he was literally out of control on a nearly daily basis.

And we just didn't take him many places in public. We never knew when he would melt down. So he stayed at home (and so did we). I can't even imagine what he would have been like on an airplane. I don't even like thinking about it now.

We didn't hire babysitters. We used family members he was familiar with and trusted. We had one neighbor who ran a daycare center and he loved her so we used her in a pinch when we needed a sitter.

It was hard and we had to make a lot of sacrifices. We didn't go on vacations unless we could camp out, because he loved being outside and could run off his energy. Long car trips were impossible. I couldn't read him a book until he was 6 because he couldn't sit still long enough.

But he is 25 now and a great young man. He went to kindergarten with a couple years of therapy behind him and on meds. Fortunately he loved school, eventually settled down and by the time he was in 2nd grade he was a very well behaved kid. He also didn't need meds for long.

I realize this is not the same as autism. When my kid was at his worst, all the therapists continued to assure us he would eventually settle down. And I did cling to that thought. But I can relate to having a kid who doesn't act well in public and the sacrifices that brings upon parents.

And as the parent of grown kids, I tell those with young ones this very important fact: You blink and they are grown up. It really happens that fast. :)

[noonwitch]

63. I agree with you, Ilsa

I occasionally get an autistic spectrum kid on my caseload. It can be so difficult for families who don't have a lot of financial resources, but, man, people in public places should have some patience.

Every day, we tolerate behavior from people in public that is far more troubling than the average autistic kid's behavior. I went to fireworks in a small town, and witnessed public urination and other alcohol-related obnoxiousness.

I'd rather deal with an autistic kid.

[windoe]

66. Between autism and Alzheimer's there sure is a lot of neurological disease these days..

and the numbers are rising. Caretaking is so stressful, and expensive!! (Two people in my family have Alzheimer's, and they have very little tolerance for unfamiliar surroundings, they cannot go far).
Thank you for telliing your stories, they need to be shared to increase awareness.
Peace to everyone here~~

[KamaAina]

69. There are enough parents and, yes, people with autism at DU that we constitute a DU Group

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=387

As good a place any to become better educated.

[slackmaster]

70. I can put up with all kinds of unconventional behavior in public

As long as it doesn't put me in danger. The moment it does that, patience loses all virtue.

[bluestateguy]

72. That's right

Airplanes are not a place for political correctness.

[PA Democrat]

76. I think what troubled ME about that other thread was the attitude that the child was misbehaving

because of poor parenting. I am raising a child with autism and you cannot believe how difficult the journey has been. I also have a "typical" child and raising him has been a total cake walk compared to raising a child with autism. You agonize over taking your child into every single situation when the parent of typical child never needs to give it a second thought. Sometimes no matter how well you plan and practice appropriate behavior with the child, something unforeseen happens and all of a sudden you can be dealing with a behavioral meltdown.

I would ask NOT that any behavior be tolerated on an airplane, but that perhaps people refrain from rushing to judge the parents. Unless you've been there, you have no idea how difficult it can be to parent a child with autism.

[bluestateguy]

71. I can't speak for autism

But ADHD IS diagnosed too much. Too often we have parents who don't want to discipline their children for what in the old days used to be called "bad behavior". Are there some kids with a legitimate disorder? Yes, but I know for a fact there are parents (two of whom I knew personally) who doctor shop, looking for an ADHD diagnosis. That way they have a ready made excuse the next time their kid is sent to the principal's office for misbehavior.

[PA Democrat]

80. Please don't speak for autism. Parents don't fake autism.

My child wasn't speaking AT ALL at the age of 3, treated her brother and every other child like a piece of furniture, didn't respond to ANY verbal instruction, in fact she didn't even look up when you called her name.

Having parented a child with autism for 16 years, I found many of the sanctimonious comments on this and the other thread EXTREMELY offensive. I would never judge a parent of a child with a disability because I know first hand what an enormous challenge it is.

[skooooo]

74. LEARN IT LOVE IT LIVE IT!

[LWolf]

75. I agree with your remarks about autism, adhd, etc..

Is there, though, reason to believe that the "unruly behavior" was a function of autism?

If not, then the conversation is more appropriately focused on what kind of behavior, and parenting, the public can expect from families in public.

I do my best to avoid children in public. Except for my grandson, lol.

Not because I don't like children, but because I spend all day every working day with large numbers of other people's kids, and when I'm not working, I want a break. I'm a teacher.

I've been on planes with the crying baby, the restless toddler, etc., next to me, in front of me, or behind me. Each time, I felt sympathy for the parent, did my best to be patient, and silently wished to be at the other end of the plane. Planes are claustrophobic enough for adults. It's not reasonable to expect young kids, autistic or not, to sit still, to not wiggle, be noisy, or get up and down for hours on end.

It is reasonable to expect parents to bring things to amuse them, and to attempt to teach them appropriate behaviors in that setting. To do their best to make the trip as pleasant as possible for all involved.

Four kids is a lot to manage for one woman and her pregnant sister in that situation. I'm picturing parking, dragging luggage for 6 while you supervise 4, standing in lines to check in, go through security check points, long waits to board; the adults were probably a bit frazzled by the time they boarded.

Are you thinking they were kicked off the plane because one of the four was autistic?

[PA Democrat]

84. I'm pissed too. I'm sick of the sanctimonious attitude by many who have never

parented a child with autism. Most of the parents of kids with autism (myself included) don't need other people judging their parenting skills. We are our own toughest critics. Every time my child had a meltdown in public I beat myself up for not anticipating the situation properly, for not preparing my child better, for losing my own cool. The snarky remarks by others are not helpful, in fact they HURT. Most of us are doing the best we can. We've done the thousands of hours of ABA, the special diets, we've tried different medications, usually with minimal or NO success.

Some kids respond to the various therapies better than others. One of my best friends has done ABA with her daughter for YEARS and has had her child to the top autism experts in the country. Her daughter STILL has one of the most severe cases of autism I have ever witnesses. Her mother has worked SO hard and she still hears the cruel judgmental remarks every time she takes her daughter out in public.

I wish others could walk a mile in our shoes, Ilsa. Compassion costs us nothing, but it is an incredible gift to families who are struggling to live their lives with autism.

[lumberjack_jeff]

85. Exactly right. Thank you for that. n/t

[PA Democrat]

86. I should learn to not even READ autism threads, Jeff.

I invariably end up totally pissed off at the attitude of some of the so called "progressives" on this board.

Jeez. I'm having a bad day. No services at ALL for my daughter this summer, and we know how kids with autism thrive on routines and structure. The teacher who is supposed to provide ESY has some major health issues, and in the meantime my daughter asks me every single day when she can go to school. How many 16 year old WANT to go to school? She has been having more difficulty then usual with controlling her behaviors this summer, and I am trying my best to keep her busy and productive. I guess the fact that she had a meltdown today is the result of bad parenting according to SOME people here.