The United States is finished.

[Postman]

How many billions do they spend of our dollars every year on imperialism and occupation at home and worldwide at the expense of national healthcare? Transportation systems? Clean energy? Public education? Jobs?

This country is finished as a democracy.

The United States is quickly becoming nothing more than a breeding ground for producing bodies to join the ranks of US occupation forces worldwide to protect the interests of corporations, many of whom move their headquarters offshore to avoid paying US taxes. And they call it "protecting our freedom".....

When will the dumb-asses wake-up?

We may not have single-payer national healthcare, but hey, look at this shiny new submarine we built to fight "terrorists" in a desert...

Un-fucking-real...the amount of treasure that is wasted on bullshit military equipment at the expense of human needs at home.

[Terry_M]

1. They'll wake up AFTER conscription starts.

And I would assume the plan is that by then it will be too late.

[donheld]

2. It looks more and more like that all the time

When will we all awake from our slumber? Will it be too late?

[Postman]

5. Sometimes I wonder if the phrase.....

"will the last person leaving the United States please turn out the lights"....isn't appropriate..

This country is dead. A bunch of empty headed, slogan loving morons who, as long as they're able to get cable tv, a movie, and some Taco Bell, are perfectly happy with they're pathetic lives.

And care not to do anything about it because getting "political" or "active" in politics is as foreign to them as getting in a rubber raft and setting sail across the Pacific...In fact in some circles, talking politics is downright weird..

Un-American even...we don't go for that..intellectual stuff....

[truedelphi]

59. We cannot have Universal Health Care - but 11 BIllion a month

For Iraq is okey-dokey.

[bdamomma]

50. if we do not wake up or take some action, the consequences

will be horrific.

[kenny blankenship]

3. either approx. 7 years too late - or 28 years too late depending

on whether you date the death spiral of the country with the inauguration of Bush Jr. or with Reagan, who unleashed the corporate ascendancy and who created the model Bush Jr. has ruled by.

[NYC_SKP]

6. You mean that a rising tide doesn't lift all boats. Shit.

I agree that Reagan set a course and opened some doors, but Bush and Company really cinched it.

Given recent events, it's almost as though they're "trashing the hotel room" before ducking out of the hotel.

[Tutonic]

11. I think Daddy Bush started it. After all Reagan was senile for 8

long years and Daddy Bush injected himself behind the scenes to mastermind the economy and foreign policy. Then he had another four years to follow that up. Look at the line up in the White House now- Cheney, Rove (former), Rumsfeld (former), Rice, Gates, Addington,--all connected to Daddy Bush. It must tear him up to know that he and Junior screwed things up so badly that fat ass Jeb can't cross over the threshold.

[NYC_SKP]

13. I'll see your senility and raise you...

I believe that Reagan was not only administering through a series of "senior moments" but actually thought he was doing good, that he believed in himself and wasn't trying to shit anyone about anything.

Even with Iran Contra, I think he thought it was the right thing to do.

The Bush Cheney PNAC group, on the other hand, is pure evil, IMO.

On that point, I think we agree.

[World Citizen]

20. the difference being that.....

at the time of Regan the corporate RW cabal hadn't yet figured out that they could get away with so much. After Clinton the were so desperate that they tried and suceeded in stealing the election in 2000. After that boost to their hubris it was smooth sailing. By now, they figure they can get away with anything.

[electropop]

61. Smooth sailing all right. They are sitting pretty whichever "side" wins.

Because both parties are run by the same cabal.

[eridani]

35. Reagan proved that you don't actually need a functioning president

--if you want to promote the neocons' dirty work.

[wtmusic]

48. If you can sit up in a chair, sign your name,

and spew lame free-market platitudes you are qualified.

All the important work is done by others.

[Donnachaidh]

26. Reagan fired the first shot when he went after the unions and the air traffic control fiasco

That was the start of the death of the middle class.

He wasn't senile when he started that mess. He was definitely the flag boy for the race to rape and pillage the middle class, with the lead runners being Carl Icahn as his ilk.

He didn't truly become a member of the *drooling in my soup* class until the damage was done and he was out of office.

[spag68]

29. Downward spiral

IMHO you are all wrong, Nixon was the first decider. He also was the rethug lawyer in the late forty's who wrote the anti-labor Taft-Hartley laws.

[arcadian]

58. They have installed the dictatorship Prescott Bush always dreamt of.

VP Nixon was Prescott's boy. Kennedy was a fluke(taken out). They had control of LBJ through the Brown's(KBR). Again with Nixon, now uncontrollable and power hungry(taken out), Ford the cleaner. Reagan controlled through back channels. Bush Sr. too stife and calculating to be elected to second term, no matter, acheives objectives with Gulf War I. Clinton continues sancations against Iraq. Bush Jr. installed as crypto-dictator and attacks Iraq. It's like the TV series Dallas only real life.

[World Citizen]

8. I believe the spiral began when....

they killed the Kennedys and MLK.

[eShirl]

64. I'll go with 28 years too late

with our high-water mark being the moon landing in 1969

[redstate_democrat]

4. Here. here! That's all this is.

[World Citizen]

7. I agree

and those that aren't consumed with greed for money are consumed with the need to have their ego's massaged, living in an imaginary world where there exhort their superiority to whoever will listen, even if it is only themselves that will listen.

[EbenezerMcIntosh]

9. With the money spent on war, we could have had healthcare for every American for fifty years.

Lexington. Concord.

[Voice for Peace]

10. don't worry be happy

http://www.superlaugh.com/1/behappy.htm

[dysfunctional press]

12. i keep hearing that...but it never seems to come to fruition...

why is that?

[lonestarnot]

16. What never seems to come to fruition? That we're done?

[dysfunctional press]

21. yeah.

i keep seeing people saying so on the internets...
but every time i pop out of my hidey-hole, everything looks pretty much the same...:shrug:

[lonestarnot]

33. Just the tomb of the walking empty dead zombies. That's all you're seeing.

[dysfunctional press]

51. ah-ha. but when did zombies learn to drive?

:shrug:

[Postman]

17. In the United States......

Hyper-Capitalism trumps Democracy.

Hyper-Capitalism requires - Growth -

Growth requires - Imperialism -

Imperialism requires - Militarism -

Militarism requires - Fascism -

Fascism requires - Propaganda

Propaganda requires - Consolidation

[dysfunctional press]

19. yeah, and....

what does consolidation require? :shrug:

[Postman]

23. It requires...

Right-wing fascists like Rupert Murdoch to grease the palms of politicians to ease or eliminate regulations on media ownership.

It also requires companies like GE to be both a purveyor of "news" and a weapons manufacturer.....

[Gregorian]

14. Any country that spends $400 billion per year on military deserves what it gets.

That is the biggest sin I can think of. And it has bothered me for decades. We've subsidized our luxurious lifestyles through intimidation and theft. Like giving blanket with Smallpox to native Americans. And when I say luxurious, I'm not talking wealthy. I mean just about any level of our society is luxurious. I mean a warm bath. A glass of cold milk. Cornflakes. We could have done it, and we could have done it better, without bombs and bullets.

So here we are, reaping the benefits of war. Two towers gone, along with their occupants. A total nightmare. And now even more countries and their people hating us. It's not George Bush. It's our apathy and unawareness and irresponsibility. And in some ways it's not really our fault. We didn't fully realize until it was too late. But common sense says that the lifestyles we've had are not natural. And that's the bottom line. You can tack on global warming to all of this, as well. And to make things worse, there's no going back now. We're stuck. We're fully dependent. I never saw anything wrong with the modern society. But in these numbers, and in this quantity of consumption, it's just bizarre in comparison to where we were for thousands of years.

[lonestarnot]

15. Yep we're done, deep fried, over hard, well done!

[1]

18. wow. so where do we go now?

just my luck, i just got settled into my new place.

so what now. is there a plan? a schedule? where do i go next?

[EbenezerMcIntosh]

24. The last bunch facing this started out at Concord.

:shrug:

[1]

27. but i thought they stopped flying the concord because it crashed so much...

besides, who could afford that ticket in these times?

[Gregorian]

30. North, to Alaska!

Sam crossed the majestic mountains to the valleys far below.
He talked to his team of huskies as he mushed on through the snow.
With the northern lights a-running wild in the land of the midnight sun,
Yes, Sam McCord was a mighty man in the year of nineteen-one.


Way up nooooooorth!
Way up norrrth!


Sorry, I couldn't help myself. :)

[tavalon]

43. Naw,

when I go, I'll be taking a much shorter trip, just across the border to Vancouver. I think about it a lot since as a nurse, I can emigrate.

[DemoTex]

22. yes .. yes it is

[FreepFryer]

25. The United States will persist. We will have to unify around the challenges, however...

...and for that to happen, the government needs to be dedicated to an entirely different model of life... focused more on sustainability than profit...

...because unrestricted, 'fundamentalist' capitalism as a world culture won't work much longer.

[Donnachaidh]

28. Good luck with that *unity* thought

We've got a government that strides hand in hand with big business. They run up huge deficits so that when bridges drop, or hurricanes devastate cities, they can sit back and dither about spending money repairing that city or that bridge. And we hear a chorus of how *broke* the government is.

Yet we ALWAYS find the money to go to war to protect BIG BUSINESS and it's overseas holdings.

And what does middle America do? We line up for HOURS or DAYS to buy the next new TOY.

Does middle America do the same to VOTE in an election? HELL NO.

But give them a number to vote for some minimally talented kid from the Midwest? HELL YEAH.

UNITY is NOT what we have now.

[FreepFryer]

34. Pendulum swings and sometimes it swings hard. That weightless feeling...

...is the pendulum stopping its rightward swing and hanging in air before the plunge.

It ain't pretty but it comes in cycles.

[Gregorian]

31. As a pessimist, I believe a good leader can still turn this country around.

Less money on bombs.
More on education.
Energy independence.

There is a lot of room for optimism.

Hey, we're in deep. But worse things have happened. To be honest, it's the Iraqis I worry about. They've got a big mess to dig out of. And of course we don't have the money nor interest to help them.

When we look at it as ONE WORLD, things get a lot friendlier. Instead of competition, we work together.

Oh well, it's late, and I'm tired. I sound like a junior high student. But it's all true. Maybe we need to stop thinking like adults.

[1]

32. hey, bud, things are a bit fucked up. but it's not over. it's up to you and me...

to make this thing right.

finished?

bullshit.

you know how. i know you do.

tough times? yeah. so what? make it better, postman.

i look to you postman to carry us forward. what is your plan?

don't quit on me.

tell me how we are going to right this ship...

[eridani]

36. Whatever is coming remember this--

Do not go gentle into that good night
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

[Golden Raisin]

37. Sorry, could you please

be quiet. You're interrupting 'American Idol'. For everyone who cares that the Republic is teetering on the brink of tragic collapse there are too many citizens who don't know and don't care. Struggling to survive the Republican Economy which is hurtling towards implosion and too busy anesthetizing themselves shopping on credit at Wal-Mart and being hypnotized by TV.

[1]

38. hell no, raisin. shout it loud...

and tell me your ideas, raisin.

shout them out!

[and-justice-for-all]

40. All hail Wal-Mart!!! nt

[Dukkha]

57. you stole my exact response

:)

[and-justice-for-all]

39. Imperialism never last..

history has provided proof of that. Rome, Greece, Persia, Egypt....things never remain a constant, they are always on the move..Sometimes, the only way one can learn, is to hit the wall at mach10 and that is where Amerika is headed.

It seems that all nations have been through this very same shit before and learned their lesson, it is just this young countries turn to rise, fall & then learn an extremely hard lesson.

Europe has been through hell, on more than one occasion at that. It took some doing but it survived, it is a better society because of those terrible circumstances it had to endure.

All empires, eventual fall.

[1]

41. excellent insight. what is your plan?

how do we fix this. what are your ideas?

[and-justice-for-all]

67. It can not be fixed...

it is like a natural evolution of society to me. Like a virus that you can only treat the symptoms and not the cause, but it will have to just run its course.

They all seem to have the desire to learn the hard way.

[earth mom]

42. I remember saying that way back in the 80s and it's only gotten worse. nt

[1776Forever]

44. I agree 100% - It is all in the name of FEAR - Here is a link to a message I wrote on DU on the 4th.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3563813&mesg_id=3563813

[lonestarnot]

45. kick

[indepat]

46. A goodly amount of that treasure wasted on bullshit military equipment actually gives us a much

better kill ratio in our perpetual pre-emptive wars and occupations of nations of people of color. :D

[ellie]

47. Agreed. America is over.

Will the last person to leave shut off the lights?

[bdamomma]

49. I feel that the pressure cooker which is us is going to blow soon.

[leftofthedial]

52. Why do you hate America?

Officer! We have a disgruntled person for the gulag!

[kenny blankenship]

54. you mean " another satisfied customer"

[leftofthedial]

65. ...

:spray:

[SidneyCarton]

53. Maybe we are, maybe we aren't.

It is clear that we won't be able to go on as we have, but other nations before us have left the stage of imperial power, we have a choice, we can choose to leave or be forced off. It isn't 1945 all over again yet, with allied forces storming the capital of the Amerikkkan Reich as it burns in ruins. Maybe we won't end up like Sweden, but Britain is a good goal to aim for.

[katty]

55. Yep, it certainly is - police state protecting corps and billionaires

[Evoman]

56. No. Hell, there have been states that have had to put up with worse than bush.

And they are still here.

Eventually it will "finish" as a superpower. History proves that time and again. And, honestly, that may not be to your detriment. Don't get me wrong...times will be tough...but maybe a new U.S. (or a couple of new U.S's?) will be the end result.

[jmondine]

60. They'll wake up when we offer them more than just a bleak picture of reality

Most mainstreamers know, on some level, just how screwed up things are. Waking them up to it consciously just leaves them feeling powerless and despairing.
We need to do more than wake them up. We have to empower them, show them a vision of how things could be vastly better, and lay out a road to get there.
This is one of the reasons that Obama's campaign has been so energizing. To some degree, he's been doing just that.

[LanternWaste]

62. As long as...

As long as individuals are able to play Grand Theft Auto XXIIVX or power up to a level three hundred barbarian in World of Warcraft, as long as I-Pods keep flying off the shelves, as long as Bumper Stickers keep getting slapped on cars, I'd say it's the same old routine, different decade...

[windoe]

63. Bought and sold,

outsourcing, natural resources going to the highest bidder,and we're out of the loop entirely so who knows what else is going on. Military Industrial Complex (or whatever the powers that be call themselves) have gone rabid and are just drunk on power now.

I will celebrate Obama getting elected, and hope his administration does less damage to us than *.

But it would take all of us to stop this war machine, everyone has to refuse to fight anymore or work for them or pay them any money, the monster must be starved. Enough people have to wake up out of this delirium on time and halt the machine, REFUSE to kill. Work for PEACE instead.

I remember John Lennon saying, peace will not result from a violent revolution, because the change of guard will only look different, but the agenda will stay the same. Wish I could find a link.

Passive resistance is the only way now.

[lonestarnot]

66. kick