Are car companies going to raise the price of small cars?

[ravencalling]

With the auto industry in trouble, not being able to sell their gas guzzling inventory, can anyone foresee what they might do regarding pricing on vehicles?

The reason I am asking is that I am in a market for a small economy vehicle. Might get on the waiting list for a Prius if I think it is a wise move. Or perhaps I should buy now? With the market shifting to the small car, I worry about supply and demand, that the companies are going to start jacking up the price of low end economy vehicles. In that case, it might be wise to buy now. However if they are going to drop prices out of desperation to sell vehicles, it might be wiser to wait.

The Prius is supposed to drop in price, but now it just seems unlikely to me.

[rucky]

1. They're already going higher in the used car market.

And it wouldn't surprise me one bit. Good catch.

[Fumesucker]

2. Unlike gas guzzlers, fuel efficient cars are in demand..

Theory would sugggest that the prices of efficient cars will rise.

I know the motorcycle/scooter market is booming, I talked to our local scooter dealer yesterday and he confirmed it.

[comtec]

3. The Tata will help keep/driver prices down

it might be indian made crap, but at 2500 dollars, AND around 50 MPG (rough estimate from 20 Km/L) who cares!?
It's going to get acceptable gas mileage, and weigh less than me! (ok im not THAT big ;))
Point being, with the Tata being such brutal competition, US companies will have no choice BUT to make smaller, better economy, and affordable cars.
Mostly likely this will also drive electrics and 3 Cyl engines to stay affordable and competitive.
IF Obama wants to protect jobs, he will also tax the ever living FUCK out of cars manufactured out of country (fuck nafta) by US auto makers like ford, or GM!
That alone would force them to make the vehicles here, and thus help the economy recover by bringing BACK jobs.

oh well... one can hoe n dream can't one?

[Romulox]

5. So buy Indian made cars...then level a discriminatory tax on the Big 3

to bring jobs back?

That makes zero sense.

[comtec]

13. The big 3 are making cars in mexico and china.

by taxing them coming back IN to the country, you force them to make them IN the US to avoid paying the tariff.
that creates and saves jobs by making ti more feasible to make cars IN country, that's WHY honda, toyota, etc have plants in the us. because after transport and tariff costs, it's cheaper to build (assemble, whatever) them here than to make them all in japan, an ship them over. it also creates jobs that create an economy that can afford to BUY the newly made cars.

Ford, was an asshole, but he understood this much.

[Romulox]

15. Guess what, VW makes almost all of their cars for the US market in Mexico.

Toyota, Honda, et al. make the majority of the content of their cars in Asia (they merely "assemble" them here from foreign parts.) So the broader question then becomes, why is it Ok for Honda and Toyota, but not GM?

I think many people are looking for convenient excuses for how they can be a "patriot" and a "progressive" while not lifting a finger to support American workers.

I'll make it simple: you can't.

[tammywammy]

18. Only the Beetle and Jetta are made in Mexico, the rest are made in Germany

[Romulox]

19. Not true. VW makes at least 3 models in Mexico. Others (Golf?) are made in Brazil

[tammywammy]

51. No, the Golf WAS made in Brazil

The current Rabbit/GTI is made in Germany. Only the Beetle and Jetta are made in Mexico.

You can check the VIN. If it starts with a 3 it's made in Mexico, W means Germany and 9 means Brazil.

[comtec]

21. then they would be taxed as well.

The main issue is to bring manufacturing back to the us.
Components are taxed differently than finished cars.
Saying something is assembled in the US VA fully ground up built makes little difference to the people working in the plant, being paid to build that thing.

I really don't understand your complaint.
I want to increase jobs... what do you want?

and Honda, et al, still have plants in the US. Where are all the GM plants? what country? WHY are you attacking me on this?

[Fumesucker]

22. How does buying a "big three" car that is not made in the US "support the American worker"? n/t

[Romulox]

23. I think this is a bogus question, as the vast majority of Big 3 cars are made in the US

I understand it is convenient to muddy the waters for supporters of globalism/free trade, but this is a diversionary argument, at best.

The longer answer is that a GM car made in Mexico, say, is nevertheless made with a larger percentage of domestic components than a vehicle whose parts were primarily made in Asia and merely bolted together in Alabama or whatever else "right to work" state the Japanese manufacturers have set up shop.

Bottom line: buy what you want, but "right to work" and outsourcing of middle class jobs is not "progressive"--it's as rightwing and Republican as it gets.

[Fumesucker]

24. I'm nowhere near being in the market for a new car anyway..

I bought one new car in my life and, even though it was a good car, it was one of the biggest mistakes I ever made, I won't do that again.

[Touchdown]

32. BZZZ! Wrong!

Honda Accord- 60% American made content (parts/asseblage/assembly)
Toyota Corolla- 50%
Toyota Matrix- 65%
Toyota Camry/Solara 68%
Honda Civic 70%
Honda Pilot- 70%
Honda Odyssey- 75%
Toyota Tundra- 75%

http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=top&story=amMadeParts&subject=ami&referer=&aff=national

[Clark2008]

34. Psstt...

No unions, either.

Check out the states where they're assembled - all "right to work" states (i.e. right-to-be-fired states).

Yeah, they're "made in America," but the workers are paid crap and the profits go to Japan.

[Touchdown]

37. True.

I was addressing the "assembled only" argument though.

Work needs to be done on reversing RTW laws. Enactment of the Employee Free Choice Act will go a long way to rectifying it much more than Nissan being in Tennessee or BMW being in South Carolina.

[Clark2008]

40. I live in Tennessee.

That's how I knew.

[Romulox]

49. Your post is so misleading as to be a misrepresentation of the source you quoted...

In the first instance, demonstrating that some foreign make cars are produced in the US does not speak in the least to the contention that the majority are not--it is a basic logical fallacy: If I assert that most Americans are overweight, pointing out that Bill (an American) is not overweight in no way refutes the underlying point.

Second, you have misrepresented the overall thesis of the piece you (quite selectively) quote from. From your source:

Among the 58 models with ratings of 75 percent or higher, foreign-based automakers produce just eight.

http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=top&story=amMadeParts&subject=ami&referer=&aff=national

Finally, just because the Camrys that Toyota produces in the US have 68% US content, this does not establish that the only Camrys sold in the US are the one produced in the US; to the contrary: the Camrys sold in the US (to take one example,) are made in several locations around the world, and at least some of those sold in the US are not assembled here.

[Touchdown]

58. Actually, you're wrong. Camrys are made only in the US.

As well, The Tundra is only made in California.

y contrast, the Ford Focus is made from a majority of European parts and assembled in Canada.


The idea that donestic makes equal domestic workforces is an idea that became passe when Nissan's Pathfinder was released in 1988, and a huge tarriff was placed on it, forcing them to make it here.

I realize that you are an apologist for the domestic makes, and are disguizing it as a knowlegable industry wonk, but your backhanded ad-homs and circumlocutions are tiresome.

[Clark2008]

33. I drive a Ford.

Good car, affordable, good gas mileage.

It's in the shop after I got rear-ended and I'm driving an automatic Impala as a loaner.

I was spoiled with my Mustang. This Impala BURNS fuel. My Mustang has a bigger engine, but not as much load and is a straight-shift. It goes forever on $30 a week. This one has already burned through $10 in one and 1/2 days. Geesch.

[Romulox]

50. BTW, while your statement is true, it's pretty disingenuous

#1. While both Ford and GM have moved some production to Mexico (a practice I do not defend, but one made possible by right-wing "free trade" deals,) the content of such vehicles is still largely made in the US. On the other hand, as someone else proved downthread, the vast majority of US make cars are made with US content and assembly, and the vast majority of foreign makes are not.

#2. GM makes cars in China for Chinese consumption.

[madrchsod]

4. i have 8 people wanting to buy my 87 crx that needs rebuilding

it has a rust free body..great for northern il..but it needs at least a thousand to bring it up to road worthy. so for a couple thousand someone is going to have a rust free crx that will get 40+ miles to the gallon for many years to come

[Romulox]

6. I love how people think they will "save" money by buying a $30,000 car

If you are in need of a new car, by all means. But a production car is not now (nor is it ever,) an "investment". If you have a functioning, paid for car, you will not save money (or the environment) by buying a new car.

Think about it.

[SheilaT]

7. Don't get on the list for anything.

Go out shopping for a good, used, small, fuel efficient vehicle.

And if you drive a stick, there are enough of them out there that you'll have a pretty good range of choices, can even get a little fussy about general range of colors, and will have negotiating room on the price.


The other thing is to do LOTS of research on the internet about prices, have that information, especially in regards to specific cars that you are looking at, in hand as you visit the dealerships. Visit at least three or four dealerships and only buy from one that "feels" good to you.

I have been responsible for the purchase of six cars in a 26 month period, and got to know about ten dealerships in my area and there are about five I will hit up next time I'm in the market for a car here. There are some I will not visit again.

[Fumesucker]

8. If you can drive a stick..

You will get more car for less money.

The majority of Americans cannot drive a stick so the market for those cars is much smaller than for automatics.

I bought a stick car not too long ago, the seller told me he got a lot of calls from young women who wanted the car, but when he gently reminded them that it was not an automatic they lost interest.

I honestly don't understand why so many people refuse to learn to drive a car with a clutch, it ain't rocket science and can be learned in an hour or two with a competent instructor.

[Romulox]

9. Most dealers don't stock many sticks. You may have to pay a premium for it on some models.

Especially "sporty" ones...

[ProfessorGAC]

11. 100% Correct

My dad sold cars for many years. When Buick was still selling reasonably sporty models (like the Grand Sport) he would get people asking for the 5 speed manual on the floor. It added about $500 to the price of the car and that was back in the early 90's.
The Professor

[Fumesucker]

14. Who but a fool buys a new car?

Series.

I'm talking about the used car market, the only one that makes any economic sense.

[Romulox]

16. Look upthread at the people who are looking to "save" money by buying a new car

Generally, it's merely a justification for someone's desire to engage in consumerism (the prius is, if nothing else, a fashion statement.) In some cases, people are really that stupid.

[Fumesucker]

17. Apparently you agree with me that those people are fools.. n/t

[SteveM]

28. I shop used as well; however, I have been thinking new lately...

I will put off the decision since I have a 94 min-van (21 mpg) which is reliable and worth maybe $1,700. Put another way, if it blows up, I'm not out much.

But there is an argument to be made for a cheap new car. Kias & Hyundais go for $7,900 in Austin, TX. With AC/radio (comes in a damned package) that's another $1,500, tax/title, another $800 plus, and you get a new car for under $10,500 cash-up-front. It gets 34-36 mpg and has a 10yr/100,000 mile warranty.

I'm waiting another year to see if a cheap super-high mpg comes along, then I may buy new for the first time in 38 years.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

53. Anybody in Texas who buys a car without A/C is nuts, BTW.

:shrug:

[SteveM]

59. Been here 38 years, most of that time without A.C., car or home (nt)

[wuushew]

31. Manual shifting and gears are going extinct

Electric motors and their torque characteristics make conventional transmissions unnecessary.

[Fumesucker]

45. It is true that electric motors can work without a transmission..

But people are going to be driving I/C engines for quite a while to come.. There really aren't all that many people who can afford to go out and buy a new car.

And electric motors do work somewhat better with a transmission...The Tesla Motors electric sports car has a two speed transmission. (which they are having trouble with right now).

[Clark2008]

36. I didn't.

I just waited for one to come on the lot. My Mustang was CHEAPER because it was a stick. And, I think a Mustang qualifies as "sporty."

[bullwinkle428]

54. Honda Accord - about $1000 cheaper with a manual transmission

I know this to be true as I've purchased 3 over the past 18 years...

[SheilaT]

25. I'm a 59 year old woman who

drives a stick and nothing but a stick. It's fun the way thirty-something car salesmen have never seen a woman drive a stick. What's truly amazing to me is the car salesmen who try to persuade me to buy an automatic. Nope. Not gonna do it.

Another nice thing about driving a stick if you have younger kids (those who haven't yet learned to drive) in the family, is that they can't just take the car and drive off in it, as one friend's fourteen year old did a while back. Or as ten year olds have been known to do. When my younger son was learning to drive at age 16, he was quite astonished at how much skill it actually took. And equally astonished at how quickly he mastered the skill.

I do believe that in general, sticks get better mileage than the same car in an automatic. I do know that in certain smaller cars (like the Honda Civic, which I drive) the pick-up is vastly better in a stick than in the automatic.

[shanti]

27. i've had a few

cars with manual transmission in my life, but much prefer automatics now. sticks are a *%&^$ to drive in stop & go traffic, as well as on hills. i almost burned my clutch out and trying to cross 4 lanes of traffic on a hill in san francisco one time, and was a basket case by the time i did! never again!

[Clark2008]

39. You didn't drive it correctly, then.

I'm not dissing you - seriously. It just sounds like you were never taught the tricks to drive a stick correctly.

Yes, at times, a stick is painful in stop and go traffic, but there are some minor tricks - like neutral coasting, drafting and patience (stay still instead of inching up behind the car in front of you until you can actually move more than a couple of feet).

And, the art of hill driving just takes practice. I live in East Tennessee and we have our share of monster hills. I never burn out my clutch, but I did practice on an old beater for years.

:)

[shanti]

41. probably not!

i learned how to drive a stick on the flatlands of OC, so it was never necessary to drive on hills. moot point now, since i will only drive an automatic:)

:hi:

[Fumesucker]

44. I think the figures show that with small motors, both pickup and mileage are better..

A small motor with an auto is a fairly exasperating experience for me, and I like small cars.

[Clark2008]

35. Bingo!

:applause:


And, you get better gas mileage with a stick. Downshifting to a slower stop, drafting and neutral idle saves fuel in ways automatics cannot.

[shanti]

42. btw

what's "drafting"?

[B3Nut]

38. My wife didn't want to learn to drive a stick

so when I had to replace my 2000 Escort ZX2 I had to buy something with an automatic. I love my Kia Rio5 hatch, but I wish it was a stick. I really miss the 5-speed. Before my present car, the only car I had ever owned with a slushbox was my 1990 Thunderbird. I otherwise wouldn't have given an automatic the time of day...I like to stir my own soup, as it were. :)

[Manifestor_of_Light]

52. City traffic kills both kinds of trannys.

In Houston you can wear out clutches really fast in stop -n-go traffic. Also, with an automatic the heat breaks down the tranny fluid, so you can't win.

:shrug: Me, I prefer automatics. I don't think there's all that much difference in mileage.

I was amazed when I found out that lots of men think their gonads will drop to the floor if they buy a car with automatic.

[B3Nut]

55. Hehe...I never thought my *ahem* would drop to the floor...

but I just prefer driving a manual...it feels more involving and connected, like I'm actually making a machine do something. As for mileage, some automatics get better highway MPG in current models than the manuals, due to taller final drive and top gear ratios. My Kia Rio5 is this way...EPA highway for the auto is 38 vs. 35 for the stick. City's a little better with the stick, but in mixed driving I usually hover around 31-33. I can just about hit 38 highway if I don't go over 60. Drives my wife nuts when I try to hyper-mile though... :)

[Fumesucker]

56. It's *much* easier to hypermile a stick than an auto..

Agreed that driving normally the mileage difference is not really all that significant.

When you try to squeeze out every mpg though it's a a great deal easier to do so with a stick. Putting a stick in neutral while coasting is a natural thing to do, far less so with an auto.

The point is that you can use your intelligence to determine which gear you need to be in with a stick, with an auto it is all determined by the computer in the car, which has no idea what you are trying to accomplish or what the upcoming road/traffic conditions might be.

I've been driving in heavy traffic (Atlanta) for over four decades now, very often with a stick and I have never worn out a clutch. If you are wearing out clutches from driving in traffic somewhere like Houston, which I recall is quite flat, then you are not using the clutch correctly.

[rox63]

10. Smart Car, anyone?

http://www.smartusa.com/

I've seen a few on local highways. They're cute.

[NickB79]

43. Have you noticed the mpg specs on the Smart? Only 33 city/41 highway

In comparison, a new Toyota Yaris gets the same mileage, for the same price, AND gives you a modest back seat to work with.

The Smart isn't looking so smart anymore, IMO.

[rox63]

46. By 2007 specs, they got 40 city/45 highway

What about the specs changed between 2007 and 2008?

[NoGOPZone]

47. The EPA revised its test method for estimating gas mileage

so new mileage estimates are lower than they previously were.

[scheming daemons]

12. Supply and demand.... simply concept. Yes... they'll be more expensive.

[sourmilk]

20. Try buying a small truck...

2008 Chevy Colorado or GMC Canyon 2.9L (4cyl.) 4X4s going for $26,000.

2008 GMC Sierra 5.7L V8 4X4 going for $19-$22K...

Tells you everything you need to know!

[AngryAmish]

26. No, they are going to pass up an opportunity to make money on a scarce commodity

This is the way it works: price is nothing but a rationing device. If something is rare (or perceived as rare) the the price goes up, because more people are bidding on that object/service/etc.

So small fuel efficient cars are going up in desirability because of gas prices. There is a finite amount of them. Car makers can make tons of them - which they probably can't do because of retooling issues, etc. So since the supply is limited the price goes up.

[JCMach1]

29. Chrysler will import Chery's soon... the price pressure will eventually hit the downside

Car prices (and used car prices) are actually fairly cheap in the US right now... If I had a free container and mucho $'s I would fill it and take SUV's and luxury cars back to the UAE and make a killing.

[flvegan]

30. Won't matter. The depreciation any of them will take

when they roll off the lot will make them a good buy on the "almost new" market.

That's through my eyes, at least. I'd not buy a brand new car.

[ravencalling]

48. Thanks all..

Yes I think I agree with the Supply and Demand issue. Makes sense to me.

However Non-US companies who make small cars now - will they be in a bind, since they are more tooled to meet the demand? In other words, I would think that as US companies start to sell more econo models, even with the smaller supply, would they have pressure to stay competitive by keeping the prices lower on their own vehicles? Demand is also based upon people's ability to pay, and the economy is pushing that down. Right?

[dysfunctional press]

57. i'd look for a low-mileage used car.

with gas prices where they are, and only expected to go higher- there will be HUGH added incentive to come out with alternative fueled and/or electric vehicles. that's the thinking my wife and i used when we decided to wait on a new vehicle for her.