***FISA Telco immunity stripping amendment being debated now***

[MiniMe]

On Cspan2 http://www.cspan.org/watch/cs_cspan2_wm.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS2

Feingold and Spector were up talking about how can they grant immunity if they don't know what they are granting immunity for. They are introducing an amendment. Rockefeller is up speaking now opposing the amendment.

[bryant69]

1. Yeah it's a good ammendment - Glenn Greenwald was mentioning it

Doesn't seem to have much of a chance though.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[bdamomma]

2. oh boy here we go.

what is up with Rockefeller he has enough money doesn' he? Very sad indeed our Constitution means shit to some people.

[MercutioATC]

3. Rockefeller likes to be the speed bump. It's an ego issue.

He did the same thing to FAA reauthorization...held it up for months when everybody wanted to move it forward.

He may be a Dem, but he's one of the Dems we have to get rid of.

[robinlynne]

29. I believe he wrote this bill, or at least pushed it hard. He is the telecoms best friend.

[MiniMe]

4. Durbin called out McCain a little earlier about him not being there to vote

Said that he needs to come back and vote on a Medicare bill, and for this of course. Durbin said he doesn't know how McCain will vote, but he needs to vote to show where he stands.

Oh, and Rockefeller's time is coming out of the republican side. Interesting.

[MiniMe]

5. Spector saying that 70 Senators will not be briefed on the program

How can they grant immunity if they don't know what they are granting immunity for?

[bdamomma]

19. makes you think how many of them even read the Amendment?

[MiniMe]

6. Rockefeller says that he just can't talk about what the phone companies are doing

so trust the judiciary and intelligence committees.

Hell No Jay

[MiniMe]

7. LOL, Bond trying to get Specter's time charged to Dodd's time

because Specter is in favor of Dodd's amendment striking FISA

[robinlynne]

18. and Bonda offered some of his time to DIanne Feinstein the alst time they spoke about

FISA.

[MiniMe]

8. Boxer up now

Cannot place the needs of the company above the constitution

[MiniMe]

9. WHERE IS EVERYBODY??

This is an important debate.

[redqueen]

13. Dunno... but thank you for the details.

[L. Coyote]

16. Busy fighting this piece of "legalizing obstruction of justice" crap!!!

[bdamomma]

20. where is everybody like who, like us?

[MiniMe]

23. Yes, I was surprised that there weren't more people commenting when they were

debating. I started to feel lonely.

[MiniMe]

10. Boxer doing a great job talking about why they created FISA in the first place

[MiniMe]

11. Boxer talking about the Declaration of Independence now

Saying that the power comes WITH CONSENT of those governed.

[MiniMe]

12. Hard Break for party lunches now. Can we get some Recs please?

Hearing will resume at 2:15.

[redqueen]

14. I'd rec it again if I could.

:)

[L. Coyote]

15. FISA and Spying for Dummies

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/7/8/113316/8150/1022/548176

[robinlynne]

17. hi guys.

[bdamomma]

22. hey

:hi:

[bdamomma]

21. rec 10 from me

this is on C Span 2 now? I am listening to Thom Hartman.

[MiniMe]

24. There is a break now. It starts back up at 2:15.

[MiniMe]

25. And thanks for the rec

:hi:

[kentuck]

26. K & R !

Event though I do not see enough leadership in the Senate to stop this piece of shit from passing. What if the terrorists hit us again? What if the sky falls? We don't want to take the blame for it. We have an election coming up. We can't gamble with something as trivial as our Constitution. It's about "national security". Yeah, that's the ticket! It's about National Security!

[MiniMe]

27. You would think that the US was the only country who ever got

hit by Al Queda. When Spain's train got hit, they didn't overreact like this.

[bdamomma]

28. we seem to do that, overreact.

[redqueen]

62. They have been trying to get this kind of crap sanctioned for decades...

they had it all ready to go... just waiting for a 'catalyzing event'.

[Razoor]

30. guess I tuned in too late.

when I started the video. Nascar jimmie johnson was doing a Q&A at the national press club.
so ill watch when the debate resumes. I hope this doesnt pass.

[Contrary1]

31. When this passes, and we all know it will...

there will be one thing I'll be looking forward to. That being when the Freepers realize that a Radical, Leftist, Democratic, "Muslim", and last; but not least, Black, president can spy on them at will.

I can hear their collective heads exploding already.

[MadrasT]

50. Priceless

"That being when the Freepers realize that a Radical, Leftist, Democratic, "Muslim", and last; but not least, Black, president can spy on them at will."

Thanks, Contrary1... That happy thought made my whole week!

[librechik]

113. when that happens, suddenly they'll decide that Dems invented it

and it's all our fault for not stopping it

[bdamomma]

32. Thom Hartman said that this started wiretapping started in

February 2001. FISA Bill pushed back for one day for Helms funeral.

[MiniMe]

33. They have been debating an amendment to the bill

So they may be getting this stuff out of the way before they go to passage of the bill.

[MiniMe]

34. Debate is back on

[Hope And Change]

35. Kick!

[MiniMe]

36. Kit Bond speaking

If you can stand it.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

38. blaa blaa blaa Carter blaa blaa blaa 9/11 blaa blaa blaa Clinton.....

[bdamomma]

37. yuk Kit Bond is up

I muted him

[VP505]

39. Did anyone hear the old drunk Bond

throw in the obligatory "Clinton Did it too" BS. Admittedly though I didn't hear exactly what he said as I also muted the TV right after he said Clinton this or that, I couldn't stomach it anymore.

[bdamomma]

40. poor Arlen

stem cell research would help him.

[bdamomma]

41. oh this is such BS I hate listening to these repigs.

just muted him again. why doesn't someone mention wiretapping was before 9/11?

[bdamomma]

42. kicking this

[MiniMe]

43. Arlan Specter up now

He seems to be for this amendment, but we'll see how he votes.

[MiniMe]

44. Keep up the good work guys, I have to go to a doctor's appt, check in later.

[MadHound]

45. Where is Obama for this one?

One would think that with as much flak as he received over this issue last week, he would at least make an appearance on this issue and in this debate. But no, it seems as though he's campaigning down in Georgia today, and is content to leave the defense of the Constitution to others. Hmmm, not looking too good, not too good at all.

[Marie26]

79. Didn't he say he'd vote for the amendment? nt

[bdamomma]

46. Bingaman up now.

[AntiFascist]

47. Frivolous lawsuits?!

the lawsuits I have seen relating to RICO activity don't seem very frivolous. This is a very serious matter.

[annabanana]

49. k&r. . (running around & listening at the same time)

[redqueen]

52. That was a republican calling them 'frivolous', right?

[robinlynne]

58. yes, but we have many republican democrats who agree....

[redqueen]

64. Sad but true.

We've never had too many in DC looking out for us. And lately (the past 30 years or so) there seem to be fewer than ever before.

[AntiFascist]

61. yes, Kit Bond I believe, vice-chair of intelligence committee....

accuses "liberal activists of tying the hands of the intelligence community."

[redqueen]

66. Spewing lies... FISA has worked fine for decades.

This is just a power grab.

If only more Americans would pay attention to things that matter.

[AntiFascist]

71. Jay Rockefeller, then, should know better...

screwing over the American people is somehow necessary for the security of the United States?

[redqueen]

77. No... only necessary

for the Telecom's continued support ($$$).

$$$ trumps everything else.

[bdamomma]

48. oh geez kit bond is still talking

isn't there anyone else who can get up there.

[bdamomma]

51. rockefeller seems like he sold his soul to the devil

I do not trust this SOB, any constituents out there please call his office, he seems to be pushing this very hard.

[redqueen]

55. Or to the Telecoms...

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

60. go to opensecrets.org and see how much $ he's gotten from telecomms...

His hands are dirty.

[bdamomma]

69. is all about the money, nothing else.

and certainly not about us or the Constitution. Is it Pitchforks and torches time yet????

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

67. Among his 5 top contributors ATT & Verizon..this year alone $67,000

http://opensecrets.org/politicians/summary.php?cid=N00001685

K&L Gates $35,600
Peabody Energy $34,200
Verizon Communications $34,000
AT&T Inc $33,000
UAL Corp $28,100

[bdamomma]

53. this is such BS

Rockefeller is in the back pocket of the bush regime.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

54. F U Jay

[redqueen]

56. I hope his constituents are hounding him.

*sigh*

[robinlynne]

57. Rockefeller: we can't ammedn this bill because the rpesident won't sign it, and the telcoms will be

dsigusted with us. Now there are two great reasons to rip up our cosnittuion!

[bdamomma]

59. no matter what we will be screwed if this passes.

and again George gets his way again. Rockefeller is cleaning up with telecom donation perhaps.

this is crap he is spewing, because those intelligence agencies are still getting information.

[bdamomma]

63. where is Biden on this, I want to hear what he thinks about this?

[bdamomma]

65. I wish someone would crash in there and say how wrong this is!!

[redqueen]

68. Hundreds of someones.

[mvd]

70. They need to stand up for this IMO

Congress had a good start - let's end the term with spirit.

[redqueen]

81. I just hope all the Dems who are irate about this are calling

and telling their Senators.

It's the only way they'll bother listening... if they're worried about re-election or $$$$.

[robinlynne]

72. GO LEAHY GO!!!!!!!!!

[robinlynne]

73. Leahy saying this immunity is one branch of government telling the courts how to rule!

[mvd]

74. Immunity would reward Bush for his illegal behavior

And I oppose immunity. But I wish we could sanction the person who started things in the first place - Bush. Only impeachment would do that. So the least we can do is oppose immunity.

[robinlynne]

75. "This bill makes the courts the handmaidens to a cover-up!"

[robinlynne]

76. "They know the cases against the government have already been dismissed."

LIsten carefully. The civil suits against the telecoms are THE ONLY way to the truth.

Leahy jsut said the suits were dismissed for lack of standing. The citizens can only sue the telecoms. There is the asnwer to the question so many have been asking here on DU!

[Marie26]

78. Are Obama or Clinton there? nt

[undeterred]

80. If we don't win the White House this year we are screwed forever.

We can't count on fixing things later. We have to do the right thing now.

[AntiFascist]

82. Arlen Specter up now...

it may take a Republican to get the Senate's attention. The Judiciary Committee members have the best arguments from the standpoint of the necessity for "judicial review".

[EFerrari]

83. I can't make myself listen any more, even to Sheldon Whitehouse.

We know where this is going.

[redqueen]

84. "Congressional Approval Falls to Single Digits for First Time Ever"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3386140

No coincidence there, I don't think.

[AntiFascist]

85. The Bush white house was confident that a "good faith threshold"...

could NOT be met! From Democratic Senator Whitehouse, sounds like a very important point. Another, great point: most Senate members are not even qualified to make the determination.

[VP505]

86. Rockefeller on the floor PUSHING

all the RW talking points against the Specter Amendment, Jesus, why doesn't he just become a Reptilian he sounds just like the rest of them.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

87. Yep, he's of bloodthirsty Reptilian stock. $67,000 combined from ATT&Verizon has some

influence too....

[AntiFascist]

88. Rockefeller argues that it is "apples and oranges" with respect to...

the government acting unconstitutionally and the telecoms' actions in the lawsuits. He ignores the $$$ aspect of the collusion of government and telecoms acting against the interests of the parties in question.

[VP505]

89. He just pointed out the

fact that we haven't been attacked since 9/11, where have we heard that before? BTW, I think he just pissed Specter off, Specter pointed out to him that he has been on the committees and has full knowledge how important intelligence is, LOL.

[mvd]

90. IF the 9/11 official story is true, then..

that attack happened due to Bush/Cheney/government negligance. Terrorism isn't widespread enough for attacks every month here.

[AntiFascist]

91. Specter also just pointed out...

that what Rockefeller said is not correct under the law. Telecoms can act as aiders and abettors to the government's unconstitutional actions, in other words, participating in a conspiracy.

[redqueen]

92. It's like a 'good cop / bad cop' act. (nt)

[VP505]

100. So true,

we know how Senator Smoke Screen (Specter) will vote in the end, but it is entertaining to watch him go through the motion of opposition.

[pleah]

93. K&R Thanks for posting this!

A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.
- Edward R. Murrow

To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men.
- Abraham Lincoln
_________________________________

[redqueen]

94. Any updates?

Is anyone still watching?

[pleah]

95. Warner is going on about conservation, off shore drilling,

and how telecons should get immunity for breaking the law.

[redqueen]

96. Telecons. That's good.

I like that.

Thanks.

[pleah]

99. Some body else on DU used it first, I can't remember who it was or where I saw it.

Specter on again.

[Breeze54]

97. I'm so sick of him. I wish he'd get out of the Senate!!!

:puke:

[AntiFascist]

98. Sen. John Warner (R) arguing in support of the government-telecom conspiracy n/t

[redqueen]

102. Thanks.

It seems like not many Dems are speaking about it.

[Breeze54]

101. Who is speaking ? Sen. Car????

:shrug:

I keep getting booted off C-Span. :argh:

He sounds like a whimp!

[slipslidingaway]

103. Senator Carper arguing for immunity and the bill in general...

using the reaffirmation of the exclusivity provision, the companies were assured by the Bush administration that it was lawful, we need to look forward etc. etc.

February immunity vote

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=2&vote=00015

[AntiFascist]

105. Trying to set a precedent...

fear trumps the Constitution. Pledges to improve the legislation under future administrations. What is he afraid of?

[slipslidingaway]

109. We see how those improvements have worked out in the past

:(

[slipslidingaway]

104. Exclusivity provision...

http://balkin.blogspot.com/2008/06/well-thatll-show-em.html

"....Perhaps the most important concession that Democratic leaders claimed was a reaffirmation that the intelligence protocols were the “exclusive” means for the executive branch to conduct wiretapping operations in terrorism and espionage cases. Speaker Nancy Pelosi had insisted on that element, and Democratic staff members asserted that the language would prevent Mr. Bush, or any future president, from circumventing the law. The proposal asserts “that the law is the exclusive authority and not the whim of the president of the United States,” Ms. Pelosi said.

Note the key word: reaffirmation. The Democrats worked long and hard to include in the bill a provision (stating that FISA and other specified statutes are to be "the exclusive means by which electronic surveillance and the interception of domestic wire, oral, or electronic communications may be conducted") that is, for all intents and purposes, a reenactment of the current 18 U.S.C. 2511(2)(f), which has been the backbone of FISA for 30 years.

[Breeze54]

106. What a joke! Repukes claiming to be "concerned" about peoples 'health care'!!

:rofl: What a trip!! F'n Liars!!

[pleah]

107. Sen. Wicklick is up. God aren't we the lucky one in MS.

:eyes: We have Wicklick, Cockburn, and Gov. Haley Buttburner.

[Breeze54]

110. roflmfo!!

:P

Too funny!! :rofl:

[AntiFascist]

108. Warner was having 'severe palpitations' about something...

too bad he doesn't feel that way when the Constitution is in danger.

[Breeze54]

111. Yeah, I noticed that he thinks he's still 'in charge'!

What a control freak! "My friend".... :puke:

[Breeze54]

112. This must be the arsenic repuke hour....

:argh:

[pleah]

114. Levin is up now!

[AntiFascist]

117. Excellent statement by Sen. Levin...

stressing that Title 1 of the bill already covers all the bases.

[Breeze54]

115. Back to FISA.... and ugh... more repuke drivel... "lawsuits are fishing expedition"- Sen. Chambliss

:eyes:

[Breeze54]

116. Reid just said he's voting 'NO' on retroactive Immunity!!!

:woohoo: :woohoo:

"Our Constitution must come first." - Sen. Harry Reid

[robinlynne]

134. Then why doesn't he block the whole damn bill? He is the one who can.

[Breeze54]

118. "I oppose Title II. It's way out of line." - Sen. Harry Reid

:applause: :applause:

[Breeze54]

119. Go Dodd!!!

Tell 'em!! :applause: :applause:

[Marie26]

120. Thanking Kennedy, Boxer, Durbin

Clinton. Are these Senators going to vote for the amendment?

[Breeze54]

121. They've already said they're against retroactive immunity,

as far as I know.

[Marie26]

122. Thanks nt

[rucky]

132. Add Bingaman and Feingold to the list. n/t

[robinlynne]

135. and Leahy and Specter.

[G_j]

123. great speech

:applause:

[Breeze54]

128. He's hot and has been fighting this for a long time!

:D

:applause: :applause:

[AntiFascist]

130. Bravo! rule of law vs. rule of men n/t

On edit: Excellent point - there were those telecoms which stood up against the illegal administration (such as Qwest). <sorry my DVR is on delay>

[G_j]

131. powerful words, worth a transcript n/t

[G_j]

124. vote around 11 am tomorrow

still time to call!

[pleah]

125. FISA vote 11:00am tomorrow! Did I hear that right?

[Marie26]

126. Yes

Jam up those phone lines.

[G_j]

129. call. call, call, jam em up!

[Breeze54]

127. Vote on FISA Bill @ 11 AM tomorrow.... Dodd going off! ~ Woohoo!

:woohoo: "Preserve the Rule of Law!!!" ~ Sen. Dodd

[Breeze54]

133. Did the Senate adjourn for the day?

:shrug: I hear elevator muzac...... :eyes: