Remind me again how we are a democracy

[arendt]

Whether or not we will be able to restore democracy to the United States will be decided well before the November election. It will be decided by whether or not the FISA/immunity bill passes. It will be decided by whether or not Cheney manages to attack Iran. It will be decided by whether or not Congress decides to use OR LOSE its inherent contempt powers to rein in a rogue DOJ and WH.

Most of all, it will be decided by citizen activists using their rights to get craven, corporate-bought Democrats and desperate-not-to-lynched Republicans to stop the madness now. It will not be decided by poll-driven, media-neutered party leaderships. It will not be decided on corporate-controlled television.

I used to feel like I was holding my nose to vote for someone like Obama or Clinton. But, I have had an epiphany. I will vote for Obama with a clear conscience. Why? Because it doesn't make a bit of difference. The GE is a total sideshow. The real action, like all the real action for the last seven years, happens in the shadows, in the 3 AM inserts into obscure bills, in the weasel-worded denials by official spokesdrones.

You may have noticed that, at the start, I said "restore democracy". Events show that, as of now, this country no longer is a democracy. My vote is meaningless, as evidenced by the record of the Democratic Congress elected in 2006. If there is organized opposition to Cheneyism from elected politicians, it is a fight for hegemony among corporate forces - Yankees and Cowboys, Whigs and Tories, traders and takers - call them what you will. None of them represent the middle class or care for it as anything beyond a cash cow to be milked to death.

Here is what events show me:

1. The military/police/prison petro-oligarchy runs the country

Under Bush's Unitary Executive (2/5 of which were put on the Supreme Court by complicit Democrats like Chuck Schumer and Diane Feinstein), the Bush/Cheney/Rove gang do whatever they please. They spend/waste obscene amounts of money on ridiculous graft like border fences, huge numbers of private mercenaries, Orwellian schemes like warrantless wiretapping and the underground version of Total Information Awareness that is still running silently, and outright plundering like the now standard no-bid, crony contracts for everything.

The military budget is ten times the size of the non-military budget (excluding social security and prisons), and it goes for wars of aggression based on lies. Next up, war with Iran - as Congress prepares to declare a blockade, which is an act of war. Domestically, the Homeland Security police state continues to flex its muscles with "drills", and "exercises"; and we have the largest prison population in the world.

Even the dumbest person is aware that peak oil is here. What do the oil-igarchs offer us? More drilling, "clean coal", and $50 Billion to guarantee new nukes based on forty year old designs. They actively resist alternative energy, like last week's ludicrous, and instantly withdrawn, ban on solar on Federal lands.

Meanwhile, Congress refuses to impeach, refuses to enforce subpoenas, bails out the banks, refuses to cap obscene oil profits, and plans to grant retroactive immunity to the criminals in power. Remind me again how we are a democracy.

2. The GOP own this system and break the law with impunity

We have seen time and again how "the Constitution is just a piece of paper" for this junta. The Attorney General has declared he has veto power over Congressional subpoenas. It is openly acknowledged that not only the US Attorneys, but even the lowly legal interns, have been selected by blatant and illegal political profiling. A sitting governor was thrown into jail on trumped up charges and effectively held incommunicado. No one has been brought to justice in these matters.

Under GOP rule, voter disenfranchisment has been industrialized. Voting machines fail test after test, but are left in place. Torture and military tribunals are the order of the day. It is legal for the President to just disappear people. Habeus corpus may still be the letter of the law, but it is not being enforced. Mass wiretapping is just fine. Remind me again how we are a democracy.

3. The Democratic leadership is complicit with Bush

The list of cave-ins and things "off the table" since the Democrats were returned to power in 2006 gets longer by the day. Reid and Pelosi pre-emptively caved on impeachment. Now, we hear that these people are too craven to even hold a private citizen, Karl Rove, in contempt. Dennis Kucinich continues to be mocked as a "publicity hound", when he and Wexler and their co-sponsors are the only real Americans in the House.

We have had a year of caving in on executive stonewalling on a variety of fronts. Jack Abramoff should have put half the GOP in jail. It hasn't happened. Now, the Democratic leadership is about to sign away the Fourth Amendment FOR NO REASON, and Obama is on board with that. The Dems continue to fund every military spending bill with no conditions. They have already voted for $400 Million to make trouble in Iran, and they are about ready to declare war. The sane element in the military and the CIA is sounding all the alarms; but the Dems can barely take notice, much less oppose this insanity. Remind me again how we are a democracy.

4. The corporate media is openly in propaganda mode; it is the GOP's Ministry of Truth

Its not clear which aspect of the CM propaganda campaigns does more damage, the disappearing of the real world, or the construction of absolute fantasy. The corporate media ignores real issues, refuses to connect obvious dots, and generally focuses on celebrities, soundbites, and terra-terra-terra. Americans are the most misinformed and uninformed people in the First World. They are terrified, helicopter parents.

In terms of active, political propaganda, the CM continues to ignore the impeachable record of Bush, whitewash the abyssmal record of McCain, and invent nonsense to "dirty up" Obama. Fox News has dropped all pretense. They outright smear people, up to and including New York Times reporters. We should call Fox News the Brownshirt Media (BM) (or if that is not politically correct, the Hooligan Media) because that's how they behave. Remind me again how we are a democracy.

5. The Campaign to make Fundamentalism plus Firearms the official religion continues unabated

Pretending to be a democracy is the most sophisticated form of friendly fascism. These guys want a nice, neat paper trail, no matter how many dead bodies they have to pile up to make that trail. They don't want some messy military coup. They would much rather do things legally. And they have been quite successful, as cited above.

There are some places where they have encountered resistance, mainly in their rabid opposition to science and to reasonable regulations derived from science and statistics. In order to deal with this opposition, the GOP have gone on a full court press to enfranchise religion and to end any regulation of armed vigilanteism. Their stalking horse in this campaign has been "freedom of religion" and "faith-based programs".

Of course, like the "War on Some Drugs" and the "War on Some Terrorists", this is "Freedom for Some Religions". If your religion denies evolution, climate change, species destruction, air pollution, or international diplomacy, its freedoms will be protected by the police state we live in. If your religion thinks contraception is a sin, that not having children is an affront to God, that homosexuality is an abomination, and that women should "submit", its freedoms will be protected.

If your organization thinks that eliminating the government's monopoly on violence will make our society more peaceful (can you say "militia movement"), if you think carrying concealed weapons into every public space (including Disneyland) is going to increase our freedoms (rather than make everyone avoid talking to strangers or moving quickly), your freedoms will be protected. I mean, look what a great job armed militias have done in Iraq.

But, if your religion counsels peace, tolerance, open discussion of sex, or if your organization advocates respecting hard scientific data or reasonable regulation of the means of violence, you will be shouted down as a pervert, an atheist, or a gun-grabber. Because this is a society where everything is black-and-white, where there is no nuance, where no policy should be more complicated than what fits on a bumper sticker, where your right to say what's on your mind is defended only by people on your side, where its "my way or the highway". Remind me again how we are a democracy.

----

I could go on; but why bother? In closing, I leave you with the new motto for America's corporate elites:

"Dumb 'em down; rile 'em up. Aim them at those who oppose you, while your rob them blind."

arendt

[Imagine My Surprise]

1. Thanks for posting...could not agree more n/t

[aspergris]

2. Firearms rubbish

Firearms are not a 'religion'.

Do you have a problem with the constitution? You spend the 1st part of your post correctly criticizing infringements of the constitution, THEN you support infringing constitutional rights by analogizing respect for the constitution with making firearms "an official religion"

I could cut the irony with a ladle.

I support the WHOLE constitution. It's not a buffet. You can't pick and choose

[arendt]

3. Firearms are, at best, a wedge issue. You want to sink the whole Constitution to defend....

concealed carry at Disneyland?

I am for REASONABLE regulation. Not total banning, not total anarchy.

arendt

[aspergris]

4. Nice strawman

I didn't mention disneyland.

For all I care, Disneyland can restrict free speech OR firearms on THEIR property.

That's not the issue I was discussing.

If Civil Rights are a wedge issue, then <SUBSCRIBE> me to the wedge issue.

I care about rights, and the constitution. Dismissing civil rights by calling them a 'wedge issue' evades the issue.

If you choose to pick and choose constitutional rights, cafe style, well... I've already addressed that.

Civil Rights are important. Wedge issue or not. And yes, before you engage another strawman - I'm voting for Obama, even though his support of ALL of our civil rights has been spotty.

[arendt]

6. You refuse to engage on "reasonable regulation".

You say Disneyland is private property. Does that mean that you exclude all privately owned spaces? What about a private business in a publicly owned property - like a store that leases space in a subway station?

My point is that your "policy should be more complicated than what fits on a bumper sticker". It sounds like anything but total freedom is too little for you. All I here from you is a worship of guns that borders on religion.

You are proving my point.

All I ask for is reasonable regulation. If you can't handle the give and take of defining that, you are not in favor of democracy. Your right to swing your fist stops at the tip of my nose.

For example, I am not comfortable with anyone under the age of ten going hunting, even with a parent at their side. One time, when I was 9, my dad tried to teach me to swing a golf club. He stood too close, and I hit him in the teeth on the backswing. And that was a golf club. I do not think it is responsible for ten year olds to walk around with a loaded gun.

Will you discuss any kind of regulation, or just bash me because I dare to bring the subject up?

arendt

[aspergris]

8. The issue

wasn't "reasonable regulation"

It was the falsehood that gun rights are treated as a religion (iow inherently irrational and emotional) whereas OTHER constitutional rights should be respected.

IT drew a false dichotomy between those "good" constitutional rights that have been infringed and that "religious" constitutional right

That you have yet to "engage" in and thus change the question.

When you engage the issue and stop bringing up disneyland (which I never mentioned) and other strawmen, I'll get back to you.

Fwiw, I support private property rights the same for private property - whether it is the 1st or the 2nd amendment. When private property is a place of public accomodation, then even though it is private property- you still have (some) 1st amendment protection.

When it isn't public accomodation, then there you go.

The 2nd is just like any other amendment.

See: strict scrutiny for "reasonable restrictions'

I favor the same 'reasonable regulation' on the 2nd, just like the 1st. Iow, the assumption is that any regulation is inherently unreasonable and unconstitutional unless proven otherwise and supported by due process.

felons - can be restricted of their firearms rights. etc.

[arendt]

13. You are categorically stating that NO ONE in this country treats gun rights like a religion?

Thank you for the wonderful soapbox you are giving me.

You see, I think we would probably agree on what constitutes "reasonable".

But, you go ballistic when I suggest that SOME PEOPLE in this country want to make their EXTREME version of gun rights into the law, the same way some people want to make their extreme version of religion into the law.

I notice you did not misinterpret my condemnation of fundamentalists as applying to all Christians. But you sure did misinterpret my condemntaion of gun worshippers as applying to all gun owners.

It is the mindless, black and white thinking that I am opposed to. To talk at all about regulating guns, even on a board like DU, is to open oneself to what we used to call "conservative flak" (back when DU used to be safe for progressives). It is the "how dare you even mention it" tone that you take that bothers me.

There can be psycho-gun lovers the same way their can be psycho Christians.

And, unfortunately, the overlap between those two categories is way too high for my taste.

[aspergris]

25. No more

Than some treat abortion rights "like a religion"

Do you see the problem with that terminology?

you want to demonize gun rights supporters by analogizing their support to religious fervor.

Analogize abortion (I'm pro-choice btw) and replace abortion rights with guns, in your post and get back to me.

Seriously.

That is what you are doing. But it's ok for you to do with gun rights (since you don't view that as an important civil right).

Do it with abortion and you will see how ridiculous you sound.


Goose, gander.


hth

[arendt]

35. What are you, a Talmud scholar? Analogies piled on analogies, slowly sliding the discussion into...

a morass of wedge issues.

Funny how you would just happen to land on abortion, another wedge issue, as an analogy. Funny how fundamentalists DO see ANTI-abortion as a religion. For me, religion means "check your mind at the door".

Just as with guns, I think that the regulations already placed on abortion are reasonable. We have had thirty years of SCOTUS decisions to define "reasonable"; and without the die-hard fundies, that would be that.

The problem with your analogy is that a decision about abortion is about a women's right to control HER OWN body. A decision about concealed carry is about one person's right to shoot ANOTHER PERSON. (see NOTE)

Your analogy is stretched, flawed, and deliberately provocative. I am not biting on this poison apple.

Guns are not like abortion, unless you are a "guns and babies" fundamentalist. Which is why I put the two of them together in the theocratic meme that is being driven down our throats. Which is why I find your raising the abortion issue to be problematic.

Shoe pinch?

arendt

--------

NOTE: A Jewish person would tell you that an unborn child SHOULD be aborted to save the mother; a defective child SHOULD be aborted to spare it a hideous life.

[aspergris]

37. falsehoods abound

1) The problem with your analogy is that a decision about abortion is about a women's right to control HER OWN body.

Actually no. Drug use (I'm against the drug war) is the right to control your own body. Cosmetic surgery is the right to control your own body. Legalized prostitution is the right to control your own body.

Abortion is the right to exert control over the fetus. I don't believe a fetus has anything remotely resembling the rights of a person. That's why I support 1st trimester abortion on demand. Otoh, I think a 7 month-9 month fetus should not be aborted merely because somebody is depressed. But regardless, it's a canard to claim that abortion is solely about a woman and her body. The fetus does have a different genetic makeup and is thus by definition - ANOTHER organism. It is a wholly dependant organism (at least prior to viability) and is not a PERSON, but it is mostly definitely an "other"

2) A decision about concealed carry is about one person's right to shoot ANOTHER PERSON.

Absolutely false. It's a decision about your right to carry. it is completely tangential to your right to use deadly force. Deadly force is or isn't justified based on a host of factors but whether or not your gun (or knife, or car, or whatever other means of deadly force you employ). That's case law. Considering that I am a licensed firearms instructor, I could sit here and school you for hours on how blatantly wrong you are about both constitutional and case law, but I'll make it simple.

Whether or not you have the right to carry a firearm is tangential to whether or not you can legally use deadly force. PERIOD.

Two blatant falsehoods

here's a third

3) your statement that a "Jewish person would tell me" assumes that there is ONE school of thought about abortion among Jews. That's laughably false. Provably false.

It also assumes "a Jewish person would tell me" that I'm not Jewish myself, and I need YOU to explain Jewish philosophy to me. (It is to laugh).

To go along with yer general religious bigotry e.g. "for me, religion means "check your mind at the door"" comes a specific one towards Jews. Jews are not monolithic on the subject of abortion. I'm not going to get into a long wank about orthodox vs. reform vs. liberal and with the rather diverse school of thought on abortion within the Jewish faith except to say that you need to seriously increase your signal/false-statement ratio.

It's lackin'

[arendt]

38. You just keeping walking this further away from the OP, and piling on the insults...

this discussion is over. I will not have my thread hijacked by being accused of slurring the Jews because I put forward a view that is generally accepted by Jews (not being able to account for every splinter sect is not equal to a "slur".)

You have wasted my time for nothing.

arendt

[aspergris]

39. Fine. Evasion and YOUR slurs noted

You slurred an important civil right by equating it to a religion, YOU made numerous factual falsehoods (like the laughable claim that having the right to carry is a right to shoot somebody), and you made false statements about Jews.

And you blame me.

sweeeeeet!

[arendt]

40. enough with the faux outrage. goodbye. I'm putting you on ignore. n/t

[aspergris]

41. Cognitive Dissonance. It's not just for breakfast anymore n/t

[hfojvt]

43. so being a religion is a slur?

Carrying guns is an important civil right?

[aspergris]

45. No

This is what he did - equating a belief in civil rights with "religious belief" especially when , as this poster ADMITTED - he equates religion with turning off one's brain - is a slur.

By the above "logic", those who support the 2nd amendment have turned off their brain.

I won't get into agape aspects.
ONLY making this equation with the 2nd is also dubious. He doesn't refer to the religious fervor of ardent 1st amendment advocates (of which I am one also).

And yes, the RIGHT to keep and bear arms is an important civil right. It's in the 2nd amendment.

I support the entire constitution. Every amendment is important.

I also note his blatant falsehoods, like claiming the RKBA gives on the right to shoot somebody. Note that deadly force rights (firearms or others) are not affected by whether a gun is available and.or legally carried.

I don't deal with the constitution cafe style. I support the entire thing.

[Super Soaker Sniper]

46. That's where he lost me also.

[mudesi]

51. And the OP's point is proven with your reply

Congratulations.

[ljm2002]

5. Absolutely spot on...

...what a great post!

But I wish I could figure out what to do about it all.

As it is, after a long, long time of being politically aware and occasionally active, I'm getting to the point where retreat from the game looks like the only sane alternative.

Seriously. What the hell good does it do to campaign for any of these people when they dismiss us out of hand as loony leftists? While pandering to the rabid right at every turn?

Also, I'm beginning to think that those spiritual type teachers may be right: to fight it directly is to award it power. Maybe best just to ignore it and get on with one's life.

Of course, when they have the power to end life on this planet, that starts looking like a less viable alternative...

So I am left wringing my hands in despair. If only there was some person or movement out there that I really believed in, that really had a prayer of effecting real change from the system we have now. Because what we have now is simply broken, and probably beyond repair.

[arendt]

7. Do what you can now. It will be over by November.

It is broken, but not yet beyond repair. If we give them immunity, let them create a dictatorship, and attack Iran, it is over.

This is a time of chaos. In such times, individual actions CAN make a huge difference.

arendt

[suston96]

9. We have never been a democracy. We always have been and are a republic.

The people - the source of all power - agreed to a republic in 1787-1788.

There is a difference and that difference is basically the control OF the majority and the protection of the minority.

Google: 'Republic or Democracy'.

Here is one: http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/AmericanIdeal/aspects/demrep.html

An Important Distinction: Democracy versus Republic

These two forms of government: Democracy and Republic, are not only dissimilar but antithetical, reflecting the sharp contrast between (a) The Majority Unlimited, in a Democracy, lacking any legal safeguard of the rights of The Individual and The Minority, and (b) The Majority Limited, in a Republic under a written Constitution safeguarding the rights of The Individual and The Minority; as we shall now see.

You have a well studied and well written piece and maybe I am missing the point but we are not and actually cannot be a 'democracy'. It would be a disaster.

[ljm2002]

14. I think actually it's a democratic republic...

...yes it's a republic rather than a direct democracy, BUT giving citizens the right to vote for representation, so that we do have a voice in government. Of course the electoral college mediates our votes even more. At least that's the theory.

The reason, as you allude to, is to avoid the so-called tyranny of the majority. For one recent example, desegregation would not have happened without reference to the principle of law, and disallowing the majority from having their way.

However, for many years now, we have reverted back to the tyranny of the minority, where the rich and the super-rich dictate policies and then systematically lie and play on wedge issues to get their agenda enacted, with what most people can now see are disastrous results.

Then along came Georgie, and now we have reverted back to just plain old tyranny.

Our system is broken. It is not working as it was designed to work. Either that, or the ideals embodied in the Constitution were simply lies, and it has taken this long to revert back to the original intent, which was to enact the tyranny of the wealthy minority on the backs of the rest of us while mouthing platitudes and lying to the populace.

Come to think of it, maybe it really isn't broken. Maybe that really is how it was designed to work, and that 50-year run we had after WWII was the anomaly.

[papapi]

23. You may be absolutely right. Just think for a minute about . . .

who our founding leaders were. Were there any ordinary dirt farmers, tradesmen, artists or laborers among them? Doubtful. They were the landed gentry who saw an opportunity to govern the nation using an elite group of individuals who could project the image of a democracy. In reality we have never been a democracy, which is probably a good thing. but whatever our government has turned into is obviously not working FOR THE PEOPLE so maybe the good old U.S.A. needs to rethink it's form of government or figure out where the flaws lie so it can become a government of the people, for the people, by the people. Then again, maybe that will never happen and it will all crumble in on itself and die. China owns a big part of us already and they're hoping to one day buy the rest of the United States. When that happens we'll see how well a different form of government works.

[Greyhound]

49. Yes, not sure if they were a minority or majority, but a significant portion were

not wealthy, and many, like Ben Franklin, were successful in their own right. Google "Thom Hartmann signers" and you will find a link to his study of this topic. I believe it is called "the myth of the wealthy founders" or something close to that.

[arendt]

28. You are correct, but saying you are for "a republic" just doens't resonate like saying you are...

for democracy.

arendt

[suston96]

29. A "democracy" can imply rule by the majority alone....

A "republic" means rule by the people through a written constitution that protects the rights of ALL the people and especially rights of the minorities.

Majority rule was considered dangerous by the Founders, hence their choice of a "republic".

Elbridge Gerry, Founding Father from Massachusetts at the Convention of 1787:

The people do not want (lack) virtue, but are often the dupes of pretended patriots.

"Pretended patriots"? Lots of those around all the time.

[arendt]

30. Yes. I acknowledged your point and gave my reasons. Why keep picking this nit? n/t

[suston96]

32. I don't pick nits. I just try to complete a thought.

[Individualist]

10. This isn't a democracy; it's a corporatocracy.

Democracy died when DLC took control of the party.

[papapi]

24. It's actually an oligarchy masquerading as a corporatocracy.

[truedelphi]

26. My opinion reflects your exactly. n/t

[papapi]

11. I agree with what you say but . . .

I'm at sixes and sevens when it comes to what to do about it. Obviously our vote means nothing even if the candidate we support wins because viable candidates either never get nominated or cave in to special interests once they are nominated.

The present oily-garchy has complete control over every aspect of our society and no matter what we do that is going to continue.

Media is the newest 'religion' and consumerism is the newest 'drug'. If we continue on this path it will lead to our eventual destruction.

I'm hoping I won't live long enough to see it. I'm disappointed and disheartened that my life will end in a fascist state and nobody cares as long as they get theirs.

edit:sp

[AzDar]

12. I am afraid you are correct.

:puke:

[bread_and_roses]

15. Well summed up. Bald truth, plainly stated. (n/t)

[Cleita]

16. We never were a democracy. I figured that out when I was eight years old

in spite of what my teachers were saying. What impressed me and others about the USA is that there was more equal opportunity for everyone to achieve a comfortable standard of living that wasn't available in the South American third world countries I was familiar with. Also, you didn't have to be afraid of being arrested for arbitrary reasons, or have to pay bribes to officials to be left alone, that's if you could afford to do so. I feel all this has changed in the last thirty years. We still don't have a democracy and we are sliding down into that third world status that formerly wasn't the USA.

[windoe]

17. Great job for those that have eyes to see nt

[papapi]

18. Our nation is suppose to be . . .

a constitutional republic governed by a democratically elected body of representatives whose purpose it is to establish a constitutionally limited government of the people, for the people and by the people.

[Tyler Durden]

19. APPLAUSE. VERY well put.

seems like every time you write something these days, it makes me glad I took you off ignore a few months back.

[arendt]

33. I'm glad to brighten your day. I count on you and others to brighten mine. n/t

[flashl]

20. Federal Circuit Judge Damon J. Keith, famously wrote that “Democracies die behind closed doors.” nt

[Occam Bandage]

21. Of course we aren't. We're a democratic republic. We have elections every two years.

Did you forget? They've been kind of a big thing in the news recently.

[Stevepol]

22. You don't even mention the ultimate corporate control technique: electronic voting machines

[arendt]

27. Just for the record, I did. But there are so many things, its easy to forget one.

"Under GOP rule, voter disenfranchisment has been industrialized. Voting machines fail test after test, but are left in place."

arendt

[LWolf]

31. We aren't.

We aren't a democratic republic, either. We'd have to have free, fair, clean, non-corrupt, non-corporate controlled elections to claim that.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

34. An Oligarchy misrepresented as a democracy.

And, bosses misrepresented as "representatives".

[PATRICK]

36. The Big Lie

We are living under its overwhelming control. Under that umbrella: democracy, anything decent or rational one can imagine, any myth or presumption of positive human value. My simpler point about the election hoopla was that it is all over as far as any semblance of a democratic election could be. We had it in the democratic primaries, imperfectly, with an imperfect slating running against a yet(yet and yet) unfaced hostile media gaming. The single fact that the favored establishment Dem for the purposes of the Big Lie was defeated, was the single physical triumph of the voter though the voters were nearly split on this. This too was no precedent as the public, when brought in necessarily have defeated the propaganda machine narrowly before(Clinton impeachment, 2000 and 2004). Note in all those precedents, pushing back the crap never brought total victory or Corporate Pravda retreat.

There is no general election of any estimable value, more a plebiscite for or against the Bush dynasty. Even the GOP has no candidate of its own, merely a convenient Bush pawn too addled by personal ambition to recognize its limited usefulness. Much of the party hates him, or more importantly, strains impotently(without moral content) at the slave collar in trying to allow other egos to replace the Bushes' miserable hands on the reins of tyranny.

In accepting the show, the myths, the legitimacy of McCain, the legitimacy of the media, the legitimacy of the election system, the legitimacy of rawly exposed terrible government policies(foreign and domestic) the Big Lie not only rules but is affirmed, its effects tackled from the side with suspicion of intent and criticism of intelligence or wisdom or commitment.

All this to get the sidelong approach riding on discredited myths back to first base to deal with real facts, real crises, real rebuilding of America. The danger will thus continue, guaranteed, the preoccupations of dealing with unpunished frauds and coup despots limited to clean up and extrications rife with opportunity for the wolves to turn again to jackals and return again as well fed wolves.
There will be some heralded mild comments- maybe- about media unfairness, crooked GOP election processes, GOP created disasters- but all glancing blows that will never take on long and hard even what a heavily propagandized public already believes it true and vital.

After Gore was robbed from what would have been a troubled era of minimal, hard fought less than adequate progress for the sake of a full court lesson in GOP fascism we will barely crawl back to square one as if Bush never existed to embarrass the present Dem leadership. Square one is now woefully behind all the troubles, behind the people deprived of overall visionary leadership and a simple voicing of hard truths.

Under this sweep I think arendt has nonetheless absolutized the possibilities for the future. The struggle is guaranteed to carry on far longer than the judgments of the satisfied or of the harshest critics. The present struggle on the other hand I think is already over, except for the bloody details.
Whether this miserable administration careens into war is likely the only open question- one reserved remarkably for spectators. So while I don't think on each and every count or in the working out of the future these details are fixed, I do see the utter determination on the overall effects of all the crap
to continue against the will of the best and the will of the people and against plain facts. It is not allowed yet to be a direct confrontation, a ripping away of flimsy, insulting veils- nor likely to be.

So before inauguration(in doubt mainly because fraud is still a Big question) Obama will be faced with
making his term one to meet the crises, the clean ups, the continuation of raped but bad US policy, a restoration mocked by the surrender of law and justice, an enablement of the democratic future without enabling defeat of the counter-democratic forces at all. All that and the debilitating fact that all this political/economic circus is handcuffing/degrading the human race for incredible suffering ahead.

When we forget the real score what exactly are we cheering about during the game? Whose game is it? We will be constantly laboring under the curse of a purposefully hostile media and false context as we attempt to see and somehow influence the debate. We have not been allowed to state the truth of matters
very much at all. We take our cues even from the media we know are are lying. Our candidate, as per usual for most Dems, will follow the Big Lie with measured dissent and hopes of "restoration". After all this, I now the garbage and the garbage people are going down in time. How many of us, or all of us, go down dumb and embattled with them is our challenge.

[arendt]

52. Great stuff. Thanks for adding to the discussion.

May I politely, and with no disrespect intended, ask if English is your first language? The grammatical patterns are unusual.

But the writing itself is so powerful that it overcomes the stream-of-consciousness style of the prose.

Keep writing.

arendt

[Psyop Samurai]

53. You are dead on...

I have difficulty penetrating your writing style, but I am glad that I persevered and gave this a careful reading. Might I suggest it as an OP?

It would take too much out of me to give this the response it deserves. But to comment briefly:

There is no "winning" without overturning the BIG LIE. People do not want, or are incapable of repudiating it, including the vast majority at DU. I no longer have any hopes of it happening in my lifetime.

All we are doing with this election is trying to get back to square one, which is entirely insufficient. And even in the event of "success", the task ahead will be daunting.

In accepting the show, the myths, the legitimacy of McCain, the legitimacy of the media, the legitimacy of the election system, the legitimacy of rawly exposed terrible government policies(foreign and domestic) the Big Lie not only rules but is affirmed, its effects tackled from the side with suspicion of intent and criticism of intelligence or wisdom or commitment.

You got it.

The real truth movement is the Zero Legitimacy Movement. So far, it's a lonely and thankless road.

[OneBlueSky]

42. right on . . . and well said . . . what's most frustrating is the feeling I have that . . .

nothing I do or say will have any effect whatsoever . . . ALL of the decisions are made in secret by millionaire politicians who are all -- Republican AND Democrat -- working toward the same fascist ends . . . (yes, there are exceptions, but they are few and far between -- and nothing THEY do or say has any effect, either) . . .

we have a financial crisis . . . we have a food crisis . . . we have a healthcare crisis . . . we have a housing crisis . . . we have an infrastructure crisis . . . we have a jobs crisis . . . we have a middle class crisis . . . we have an energy crisis . . . we have a water crisis . . . we have a foreign affairs crisis . . . we have a poverty crisis . . . (feel free to add those I've missed) . . .

and to top it all off, we have a crisis response crisis . . . i.e. the crises are so overwhelming that we've lost our ability to address them, much less solve them . . .

they say that the Chinese character for "crisis" is the same as the character for "opportunity" . . . I sure as hell hope the Chinese are onto something, and that we as a nation can figure it out before the collapse is total and irreversible . . . but I fear for the future -- and the future is NOW . . .

[Greyhound]

50. It has become apparent, to many of anyway, that we are once again engaged in the oldest struggle

this nation has had to deal with since its inception. The war
between the ruling class and everybody else. We are returning
to their favored system, a powerless, desperate, and ignorant
"working class" from which all product is extracted
through force, I think the technical term is theft.

OTOH, things do move much more quickly now than they did the
last time we went through this and it may well be that we will
live to see the inevitable results of their abuse. So that's
something to look forward to.

[redqueen]

44. It's getting worse.

But what else can we do but try?

[arendt]

47. Front page, rush hour kick n/t

[Greyhound]

48. K & R

[inna]

54. AWESOME, AWESOME post!

one of the top 3 i've ever read on this board. (i rarely post, but i do read a lot. ~)