My 401K has lost 14% of it's value in the first 6 months of this year.....

[scheming daemons]

Fuck you, Bush.

[n2doc]

1. Don't you wish Social Security was "invested" in the market?

:sarcasm:

Really, the only people making money are the crooks and swindlers. Everyone else loses.

[SCantiGOP]

16. the only thing I've made money on this year..

..are the two packets of Forever Stamps I bought before they went up a penny.

[sourmilk]

73. BS - I've made a ton of $$$ this year - over 20%...

And I'm no CROOK or SWINDLER. If I was, I'd be hip-deep in US Services sector companies like Halliburton / Bechtel/ ETC.

Invested mostly in Canadian small cap stocks / funds, Canadian Oil / LNG suppliers, Canadian Gold and Uranium Companies, Canadian Forestry Companies and Canadian AG sector companies.

I like to support companies of Canadiam origin, because I feel better when I invest in my own country.

I like companies that produce something of value.

I do not own a single USAmerican, European or Asian stock.

I haven't invested in Retail sector stocks or Financials for two years, as it was pretty obvious (and I warned A LOT of people) what was coming.

Not trying to be smarmy or elitist - In 2006, I just knew that certain sectors - namely financials and retail instruments, were going to take a pounding (there was something like $4 trillion in undersecured mortgage instruments due in 2007!) due to the coming housing and credit crises...and that Natural Resources, which trade well against a declining US Dollar, were going to outperform. Not rocket science, by any stretch...

And I'm not that bright, or experienced. I LIKE to keep my money in my POCKET, however...

[JeanGrey]

90. Yeah, I've lost too but kept the losses to a minimum.

As I pointed out upthread I've still made a killing in the stock market in the past 20 years. I also just got a big fat dividend check and that always helps.

[BlooInBloo]

100. Internet stock tips are one of my favorite things about the internet....

:rofl:

[sourmilk]

109. There was no tip offered.

I have had a pretty good and safe strategy since 2000.

Right now, however, I am merely in a holding pattern - I haven't bought or sold anything since April, and the two sales I made actually turned out to be horrible decisions. I didn't lose anything, but I played it too conservatively and could have made a bucketload had I held on to the stocks I sold.

"Hindsight is 20-20," as they say.

I wish I was as sure today about what may happen in the markets over the next five years as I was two years ago. Right now all I am looking at is very volatile penny stocks: I may not make a ton of $$$, but I'm not going to lose much, either.

[Common Sense Party]

2. You know that markets go up AND DOWN, right?

Cycles? They don't always go up.

How many years until you retire?

[scheming daemons]

4. Yes... I know..... but the Clinton years spoiled me.

;-)

[Common Sense Party]

7. Yes, but that was an anomoly.

From 1991 to March 2000 we had an uninterrupted bull market, mostly fueled by low interest rates and then technology spending, which went into massive bubble territory in the late 90s.

Bear markets usually happen about once every three or four years. We were overdue for a correction in 2000, and we were due this year.

Presidents don't have much to do with market cycles.

When are you retiring?

[scheming daemons]

8. Not as soon as I had originally planned..... ;-)

[slackmaster]

21. If you are close to retirement and still have most of your savings in stocks

You screwed up.

[scheming daemons]

28. No no.... 10 to 20 years... was hoping for closer to 10 than 20, though...

[slackmaster]

30. I don't see why you are so concerned about it

:shrug:

If volatility bothers you, you should keep your money in more stable instruments than stocks.

[scheming daemons]

33. Volatility doesn't bother me..... I expect ups and downs.... but this "down" feels different....

....more "permanent".


I think it will be a VERY long time before we have another bull market.

[DailyGrind51]

76. It is different, the value of your house has gone done along with the stock market!

During the dot.com burst, at least people could rely on the equity of their homes, which were high, back then.

[Common Sense Party]

80. The *price* of your home (don't know if I'd call it "value")

only matters if you're looking to sell it--or stupidly borrow against it.

Home prices fluctuate all the time. They're just not listed in the papers on a daily basis.

[JeanGrey]

92. Well I don't care because my house is paid for. I plan on living

in it until I die. I'm sure it will go up before then.

[DailyGrind51]

115. I did without a lot of things just to pay off a house and I intend on being

buried here! Home prices will eventually rise to more reasonable (rather than inflated) levels.

[jpcrecom]

26. agreed

People with short memories remember an anomaly of the massive market growth from '91-'00 and think that's the norm and this isn't.

Since the '30s, the average return in the market is about 9% annually. That's an 80 year sample size. It may go up 20% one year, but it will recover.

The people who make long term money aren't the ones who rob and steal, but those who recognize buying opportunities when they present themselves. Of course, I'm still shorting the S&P, so I don't think that opportunity has presented itself, but I'll probably start buying around September/October timeframe.

[dsc]

53. that is just flat out gold carat false

If you rank the post war Presidents by economic performance (ie stock market) only Carter did worse than any Republican (and he only did worse than Reagan and only by an eyelash). The rest of the Dems did better than every single, solitary Republican.

[Common Sense Party]

77. The president has next to NOTHING to do with it.

What does the president control? Not monetary policy--that's the Fed (and they play a bigger role than anyone else). Fiscal policy? To some degree--but it's the congress that passes the budget. All the executive branch can do is affect regulation by agencies.

Presidents don't control the economy.

[spooky3]

106. partially disagree - as noted in the examples in my post below

When the same party controls both Congress and the Presidency - they can have a great deal of influence. Regulation? No need to look farther than the messes in the lending industry (as well as in the Dept. of Justice, and other agencies with a hand in enforcing laws relevant to business and the economy) for evidence of the damage that mismanagement can do.

[sendero]

112. You seriously..

... don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

[A HERETIC I AM]

125. LOL! You seriously...

don't know who you are talking to.

CommonSenseParty's economic credentials are as good as it gets on this board.

[joeglow3]

129. What does a president directly control???

About the only thing that effects the economy is taxes. Thus, you may be able to blame Bush for some impact from the tax cuts he passed. However, I strongly supported the enactment of bonus depreciation and the expansion of the Section 179 deduction. As a tax CPA, I sat in MANY business meetings where companies accelerated their capital spending by years to take advantage of this, which was the whole purpose behind it.

Now, there may also be a way to tie some of it to the president through government involvement in the home mortgage issue. However, for the most part, these things need to get through Congress first.

All that said, I am still inclined to thing this is just a normal correction, as we were overdue for one. However, only time will tell is this one is any different.

[dsc]

121. yeah it is just an accident

that every single, solitary Democratic president outperformed every single Republican one on the economy. At some point, one can assume that the policies had something to do with it.

[spooky3]

62. I disagree with part of that.

The huge budget deficits and risky foreign entanglements that this President and his party have brought about have adversely affected the US economic market. The failure to regulate the financial markets and lenders (e.g., subprime, liar loans) - a choice of this administration - have contributed directly to the current value losses and risk in the housing market, which are also adversely affecting the US economy. And because we have lost a great deal of economic power in the world marketplace, we can no longer "persuade" friends abroad to do things that would be helpful to us. Bernanke has less ability to take actions that could help the economy because the mismanagement of government over the past 8 years has contributed to conditions that produce high inflation but also high unemployment.

Traditionally, over long periods, the stock market rises 6-8% per year on average. A 20% drop since October 2007 is a pretty steep drop, and the W years prior to Oct. 2007 were not particularly bubblicious - e.g., 2001-2003 also showed losses in some areas.

I don't know how much of the oil price increase is related to this President. It certainly isn't "supply and demand" - a cartel rather than a "free market" controls much of the world's oil supply, and demand has not skyrocketed. Could he convince his friends in the cartel to moderate prices? Hmmm.

[Common Sense Party]

78. Traditionally, over long periods (the past 80 years) stocks have

averaged 10%, not 6-8%.

2001 to 2003 was the worst bear market we've had since the 1970s.

[spooky3]

101. please cite your source - my sources say what I quoted.

If what you say is true, then you are making my point even more about how aberrant the W years have been (lower highs, much worse lows).

[Common Sense Party]

103. Ibbotsen is the usual source most of the fund companies use.

Here is a page with some good historical info:

http://www.icmarc.org/xp/rc/marketview/chart/2008/20080502SP500HistoricalReturns.html

Overall, the average return (S&P 500) for the period <1926-2007) is 10.36%.[br />


On edit: I had another good chart, but the link won't work.

What is your source?

The Bush years have been pretty nasty, but they would have been pretty nasty no matter who was in the White House. The seeds were sewn for the bear market of 2000-2002 long before Shrub was (s)elected. The Fed going loosey goosy, lowering interest rates so dramatically to pull out of that fueled the speculative real estate bubble. I really don't think a president has much sway over markets.

[spooky3]

104. thanks - that includes dividends, though-- I was thinking stock market prices only

Here's a paper that cites a figure including dividends (up to 2002) of 9.6%:

http://cache.search.yahoo-ht2.akadns.net/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=stocks+vs+bonds+historical+performance&y=Search&fr=yfp-t-501&rs=0&u=www.kc.frb.org/publicat/econrev/PDF/1Q05shen.pdf&w=stocks+stock+vs+bonds+bond+historical+performance&d=ZUN9GC72Q-dx&icp=1&.intl=us

[Common Sense Party]

105. Oh, yes. Dividends reinvested.

Without dividends, probably more like 7%.

[JeanGrey]

91. Yup. Technology fueled the 90's.

[sendero]

111. A "bull" market..

.. that barely, if at all, kept up with inflation.

[Common Sense Party]

131. What? Stocks kicked inflation's ass from 1984 to 2000.

Kept up?

Seriously, you may want to read up on market history, do some research.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here.

I'm just saying that facts, history, reality and common sense all tell a much different story than the one you've been led to believe.

Over the last 80 years, the "stock market" (S&P 500) has averaged about 10.36% a year.

Inflation has averaged about 3.1% a year.

During the 80s-90s bull market, the disparity was even greater.

[Xenotime]

79. Exactly. It would have continued to grow had * not stolen the election.

There are numbers that prove it.

[Common Sense Party]

81. Absolutely wrong. There are no numbers that can prove

that overinflated, overvalued bubble could have continued. That was pure, unadulterated Greenspan greed and irrational exuberance.

[JeanGrey]

94. You bet - I got out of those inflated stocks before the value

went down...................no way it could've continued.

[BigDaddy44]

110. Yes, especially March 2000 to January 2001

I was feeling SOOOO spoiled right around then.

[spotbird]

5. That's true

the people who invested in the market in 1928 fully recovered their basis by 1958 or so. If you live long enough, you can break even.

[Common Sense Party]

9. With reinvested dividends, it didn't take anything close to 30 years.

But anyone with 20+ years until retirement needn't worry much about a regular run-of-the-mill bear market.

I'm retiring in 25 years, and I look at this as a good opportunity to buy more shares at a low price.

[Common Sense Party]

38. I just ran a historical illustration...

$10,000 invested in the S&P 500 at the end of 1928.

Dropped down to $3580 by year-end 1932, the lowest point.

By year-end 1936, it was back above $10,000 but only briefly.

It dropped back down and finally got back to whole and ended the year at $11,000 in 1943.

By year-end 1958, the portfolio was worth $114,793. Average annual return was 8.48% for the 30 years. Cumulative return of 1047.93%.

[Rockholm]

50. And when the market is down, you can get more shares.

Unless you are retiring in a few years, this could be a very good thing.

[whistle]

3. You can thank BushCo top down economics for that

[robinlynne]

6. Then you're doing really well! what fund are you in...

[Skink]

10. I moved the funds into Managed and Bonds 6 months ago...

while continuing to invest aggressively. I've lost about a percent this year. I'd do this If I were you even now as we might not have seen the worst. Then at bottom reinvest in stocks etc.
One piece of advice I think is relevant given by Suzie Ormond is "what's to say we won't have a 30 tear Bear Market after the 30 year Bull run we had".

[Common Sense Party]

34. Suze likes her hyperbole.

We've never had a 30 year bull market. The longest "run," if you can consider it that, was 1984 to 2000, about 17 years...but that's only if you ignore 1987 and 1991. We've never had a bear market last more than 4 years.

The problem is: where's the bottom? No one knows. NO ONE.

The other problem is: when the stock market takes off again, it tends to do so VERY quickly, with no warning. If you're sitting on the sidelines, by the time you get back in, you may have missed most of the upside.

[depakid]

11. I have news- the financial de-regulation that's led to the current mess

was exacerbated and accelerated under Clinton and has had the support of many of the usual (and sometimes not so usual) DINO's.

While I haven't seen the specifics, it seems Obama recognizes this obvious fact, and has given some indications that he'd support legislation and actions by administrative agencies to reverse this pernicious trend.

Probably too little, far too late- but better than nothing.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

12. You haven't lost any money until you sell

You should look at this as an opportunity to buy more shares at a cheaper price. The bad economy affects us all in a lot of ways, but my 401k is not one that I'm particularly worried about.

[Common Sense Party]

14. Exactly! n/t

[TooBigaTent]

13. You are very fortunate to have a retirement portfolio. Most of us just try to get

from paycheck to paycheck. Only the wealthy have the luxury to invest their "extra" income. I would rather eat and pay for my kids school.

[Wcross]

17. Bullshit.

"Only the wealthy have the luxury"? I make 60,000 a year & I manage to put away 15% into my 401k. How did I get to this point? I bought a house that was well below what I could "afford" & paid it off. I don't waste money on expensive automobiles & vacations. I buy cheap clothing & don't eat out at restaurants. I have said "screw the Joneses", I don't care to "keep" up with them because they are broke trying to impress others.

[Clark2008]

18. We don't waste money and we can't afford to put any money back.

Of course, the two of us together (my husband and I) make less than $60,000 and we're both college educated.

Wages are stagnate, while a simple home and car is inflated.

Please don't lecture those of us who are trying to survive.

I live in TN, too, btw.

[TooBigaTent]

22. You think $60k makes you average. And your (implied) assumptions about me are way off.

No vacas (still have all my vaca hours unused), drive (or rather leave at home and take public transportation) a '95 Neon, got no aid for my daughter's college, owe nothin but a 4.75% mortgage on a duplex we've been in for 15 years, ...

I fully expect to have to work until I am physically unable. Then comes death.

Your posts sound just like the poor who vote repuke because they believe they are going to be rich someday.

[Wcross]

57. You said "only the wealthy" can afford to.

I consider myself middle class, not wealthy & I will never be wealthy. I apologize to you TooBigaTent, I realize I am fortunate to be earning what I do right now. I could be forced to work for minimum wage next week though.
I have been living well below my means though. I bought my house & land in 2002 for a grand total of 54,000 dollars. It is only 690sqft on 15 acres of land. I only take two vacations a year & that is to go see family. I NEVER eat at a restaurant, don't blow money on anything but what will help me survive in the future. For instance I am taking delivery on a full years supply of freeze dried canned food this week. Why? Because I realize my economic situation can change very quickly. I was, at one point in my life, selling plasma & relying on friends for a roof over my head. I was driving a 200 dollar car & working minimum wage. Things slowly got better until I got to this point.

My point is, 401k's aren't only for the wealthy.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

65. Sounds pretty extreme

Frugality and delayed gratification are one thing but if you are depriving yourself of little pleasures while you are young enough to enjoy them you might regret it one day. Eating out every day is foolish. Eating at a nice restaurant once a month is perfectly reasonable, for someone in your position.

[sendero]

113. Trust me on this..

... I denied myself those things when I was young and I am THANKING MY LUCKY STARS NOW.

This country's economy is going down with the Debt Disease, and consumers are just as culpable as Wall Street and the mortgage companies.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

27. At $60K a year, you make well over the median income.

You are not in a position to make judgements about people who are not as fortunate as you.

[scheming daemons]

29. $60,000 is about average for a houshold.... it is above the individual average, however....

$60,000 for a household in this day an age means one is planted FIRMLY in the middle class.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

31. And anyone who can sock 15% in a 401k is VERY lucky. nt

[Wcross]

58. I disagree, it is about priorities.

I choose to put 15% into my 401k. I could be driving a new car. I could be living in a larger home. I could be spending it at Starbucks. I could be eating out 5-7 times a week. I could have a speedboat to tow down to the lake every weekend. I don't because I choose to save for the future. It isn't about luck.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

63. Your smug attitude makes me laugh

Do you even realize that consumer spending is something like 70% of our GDP? All those spendthrifts you scoff at are starting to tighten their belts, bigtime. Watch your 401k as that happens. Hell, you might be fighting to hang on to that good job of yours pretty soon. Whatever it is you do, there's probably some way they can downsize, outsource, or automate it.

[Wcross]

68. Luckily I am NOT down for the year in the funds.

I am breaking even. Think gold funds & energy funds.

I am convinced that I WILL eventually lose this job & will be lucky to find a job that pays half if at all. That's the whole reason I have been saving at 15% for so long. You may call it "smug" but I call it frugal. Should I NOT be saving any money? Is it somehow better to be a spendthrift?

This might make me seem even "smuglier", my home & auto are paid for. It is because I only paid 54,000 for the 680sqft house on 15 acres in 2002 & I made it my priority to pay it off by working overtime. I have been preparing for the worst for a long time.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

69. Savings won't always save you.

If inflation goes through the roof, your savings will be worthless. Look what happened to the Japanese, who had the best savings rate in the world, when their economy tanked in the 90s. And no investment is totally secure, not even gold. I commend you for your practicality but you are judging people without knowing their situations.

[Wcross]

70. I am not judging- I was disagreeing that only the wealthy can save.

You can do anything you put your mind to. I was flat busted broke at one point in my life & I vowed never again. I judge no one, I am saying you can save if you try.

[Common Sense Party]

88. There's a difference between saving and investing.

Saving is, basically, hording cash--either in a mattress, or in a money market that earns a tiny bit of interest. You're right: inflation will eat away at the purchasing power of "saved" money.

Investing--which involves risk of principal loss--is putting your money in vehicles which you hope will increase in value over time. Prudent investing is investing in a diversified portfolio of vehicles that have historically proven to provide average returns that are significantly ahead of the rate of inflation. That way, your purchasing power is not diminished over time.

[sendero]

114. Here is the simple truth..

... whether you like it or not.

Americans, as a group DO NOT SAVE and THAT IS A BIG MISTAKE.

You may be a fine upstanding citizen but statistics PROVE that MOST AMERICANS LIVE PAYCHECK TO PAYCHECK when it is justified by income only in a fraction of cases.

Those folks are going to be in a WORLD OF HURT soon and they have really mostly themselves to blame.

[JeanGrey]

96. I've done it for 20 years. I looked at it as non money. It goes

to the 401K and is not money to spend. Somehow, we managed.

[Fla Dem]

120. No, it's not luck. It's discipline and having a plan.....

Started out making $300 a week. Put 5% of gross into company 401K. Each time my salary went up, I increased the contibution by 1%. So if I got a 3% raise which = $9, for a total of $309, my contribution increased from $15 to $18. Kept doing that until I reached the max I could contribute. So I still got the benefit of my salary increasing and increased my contribution. The way I was looked at, if I was making ends meet on the salary I was making, what changed when I got a salary increase that required me to take the full raise. Sure it would have been nice to have the entire increase, but really was an addition $3 going to make that much difference in my living situation? Plus it was a pre tax contribution, so if I had left that money in my paycheck, I wouldn't have seen the full amount anyway. So it was a win win.

[Hannah Bell]

35. 2006 median household income was about 48K.

[Hannah Bell]

32. you make more than 1/2 the workers in the country, then. i'd guess

about the 70th percentile.

median income for one worker is somewhere around 30-34K. which means half make LESS.

[JeanGrey]

95. Gee we could be brother and sister. Us too.

I've put 10 to 15 percent of my income in my retirement plan since 1988, never taken any out and invested in risky stocks until the bear market came about and then switched to overseas and then to stable risk. We've owned three homes, made money on all of them and were able to buy a home for $130,000 free and clear in '02 that was built in '99. We'll be here until we die which is ok by me................

[Wcross]

116. I guess it is just the way us "wealthy" people are.

I think it is hilarious that some resent people like us who make real sacrifices in order to be financially secure.

[Common Sense Party]

36. I talk to people every day about their 401k plans.

Most are living very tight.

Most earn less than $40,000 a year.

Most are putting about 5% of their gross income in their plan.

Some can, some can't.

Of those who can, some will, some won't.

[lynettebro440]

56. I also speak to people all day

about their variable annuities. People are jumping ship, when I first started 2 years ago people would get a couple calls a week for withdrawls, in the last 6 months, make that 2 or 3 people a day taking withdrawls, and each has a hard story to tell. It's really sad. People are hurting.

And to the guy who made $60k and lives a frugile life, you ought to try it around $30k, barely get by let alone put money away. I could only wish to make that much.

[Wcross]

61. I put away 15% when I made 30k a year.

Its all about priorities. I have only been in this job for 5 years, prior to that I was earning about 34k a year. I was still able to put 15% in.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

64. Do you have children? Are you healthy?

It's very easy to live frugally when it's just you and your health is good.

[Common Sense Party]

99. Sounds like some of those people weren't suited for variable annuities.

Those are appropriate investments for only a small number of mostly affluent investors, IMHO.

[A HERETIC I AM]

126. Any bets those VA's were/are 7 + year products? n/t

[Common Sense Party]

130. No bets here. Undoubtedly they were. Can you say "CDSC"?

I started in this industry marketing variable annuities (to advisors). I think they're great vehicles FOR THE RIGHT PEOPLE. But I've seen far too many times where VAs were the WRONG PRODUCT sold (foisted upon) the WRONG INVESTORS.

[carlyhippy]

55. I am a lucky one

my boss puts the money into the retirement fund, I don't have to contribute, which is good, otherwise I wouldn't have one.

[tammywammy]

60. I make less than $30,000 and still manage to put a little away into a 401k

[RebelOne]

15. Mine has taken a hit too, as well as my IRA.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Common Sense Party]

45. Huh?

[slackmaster]

20. I'm glad the markets are down while I am working and able to contribute to my 401k

In the long run it's likely to be a very good thing.

[Common Sense Party]

43. The more shares, the merrier!

[slackmaster]

44. The concept of "buy low, sell high" is lost on too many investors

:nuke:

[Common Sense Party]

46. As is the concept, "Markets don't always go up."

Now, if one is a few years away from retirement, I sympathize. Going through a market correction sucks, and hopefully that person is well-diversified and has a good cushion of bonds and cash.

But if someone has 20 years to go until retirement, a bear market is a gift from the gods. It's a great opportunity to buy more shares of good companies in good funds when they're marked down 20 or 30%.

When I go shopping, I buy stuff on sale. Buying on sale is good!

[rucky]

66. That's one way to look at it.

It's just scary to watch your nest egg go down in value like that - even though shares are increasing.

[Common Sense Party]

82. It can be scary, but not if you know the history of market cycles.

Past performance doesn't always indicate future results, but with EVERY single crash, bear market, recession, depression, catastrophe in the past--the market eventually has come back and gone on to set new highs. You have to take the bad along with the good.

"AVERAGE annual return" -- people always miss the word "average" on their statements.

[Beetwasher]

23. My Inflation Linked Bonds Are Up Over 14% Over The Past Year

If you can shift your allocations you should.

[Common Sense Party]

47. Do you have inflation-linked bonds as a choice in your 401(k)?

Most people don't, that's why I'm curious.

[Beetwasher]

48. 403b

TIAA-CREF

[Common Sense Party]

83. Oh. I didn't know TIAA-CREF had an inflation-linked bond fund.

But I see it now on their site.

It's up 5.73% YTD. That's pretty good.

[Super Soaker Sniper]

24. Mine is up about 16%.

But it is invested heavily in oil stocks. I don't invest "Green" or Progressive or Blue. I invest where it serves me the best and I am more responsible for the sucess of my investments than George Bush (or Clinton when he was President) is for their failure.

[biermeister]

25. did you include the devaluing of the dollar

in your calculation?

[Phred42]

37. I cashed out of mine last week

I'll be 59.5 in Feb 09. At 59.5 yrs old they do not hit you with the extra 10% tax for cashing out early. I'm 6 months from that. I am betting that by Feb 09 my 401K will have lost more than that 10%.

It's a shitty world and a shitty deal.

Fuck Conservatives of all flavors.

[Common Sense Party]

42. Please listen to this guy:

http://www.businesstalkradio.net/weekday_host/Archives/rl.shtml

Ray Lucia. You've got to have a plan for retiring. That's what this guy talks about. You can't be 100% in stocks right before you retire.

That's what happened to far too many people in 2000. They thought they were ready to retire, because their portfolios were fat and happy after all those back-to-back years of double-digit gains, and they thought the good times would last forever.

And then the bubble burst.

And they were 100% in stocks.

And they couldn't retire when they wanted.

[Phred42]

49. Thanks for the info - much appreciated.

But there are other circumstances that I didn't mention before - I need the money now anyway.

I 'was' an IT Technical manager for 30 years. I've been out of work for 16 months now and I'm broke.

No one wants a 60 yr old middle manager in IT....unless he is in Delhi

Here's the First line in job description I found on Craig's List......


"Applicants MUST be Permanent Residents, or U.S. Citizens, under the age of 42 (certain positions can be considered for up to 50)."

This used to be illegal, but then a lot of things were not legal before the Republican Coup in 2000.

[Common Sense Party]

74. That makes a big difference.

If you REALLY need some of the money now, there is a way to avoid the penalty, but that close to 59.5, you may not want to.

Do you know what a 72(t) withdrawal is?

[Phred42]

75. lol You're way over my head

I am a financial moron (so I qualify a a McCain Economic Adviser)

I hate having to deal with Financial issues so I've never learned much about it.

In any case, the deed was done last week.

Thanks for the effort though - appreciated.

:toast:

[Common Sense Party]

97. You say you "cashed out" and "the deed was done last week."

Then you say you don't turn 59.5 until next February.

What deed was done last week, specifically? You didn't withdraw the money from your 401 or IRA, did you? You didn't actually request a distribution, right? (Please say "no.")

I'm sensing a 10% penalty and pain in your not-too-distant future. I hope I'm wrong.

[Phred42]

124. I terminated the account.

and I am expecting the additional 10% pound of flesh.

I didn't know any other way and couldn't find anyone who did either.

[high density]

39. Buy at a 14% discount

[carlyhippy]

40. me too

it sucks, I am losing my arse

[Common Sense Party]

41. Are you retiring soon? n/t

[carlyhippy]

54. no, I have a very long way to go, but

it's still scary to see the money flittering away. My advisor told me to "just keep it as is" because "more than likely it will rebound later, we must look at this over the long haul, not short-term"...easy for him to say....it's still scary to watch.

[skooooo]

67. You'll be okay...

There are always ups and downs, but in the end it always goes up!

[Tiberius]

122. ???? Ummmm...

Yeah, I guess in the end it always goes up, but "the end" for a mortal coil may come before it recovers for you...

[A HERETIC I AM]

72. It's not easy for him to say because he knows you don't want to hear it.

But he's right.

Take a deep breath, be well diversified and buy in a little to each fund with every paycheck. In ten years you'll be glad you did.

[Common Sense Party]

102. Well-said (as usual).

How've you been, Heretic?

[A HERETIC I AM]

108. I've been good. You sound like you've been busy.

You've been doing a lot of traveling?

[Common Sense Party]

117. Yup. I'm actually staying home this week, though.

It's a nice change.

[screembloodymurder]

51. While you were going down the tubes,

thought you might like to see how the "other half" vacations. We rafted the Blackfoot River through this exclusive ($$$$$) camping resort outside Missoula, MT. For $600/night you get three gourmet meals a day, a fully furnished tent and your own butler.
This Fall let's give our dogs a break, shall we.
http://www.pawsup.com/resort/pdf/WineBitch.pdf

Edit: Sorry, I guess the meals are extra.

[flygal]

107. Montana's becoming a rich man's playground

What's happening in Bozeman is so sad. People living off their own wealth driving up the costs for the lowly paid working class. I used to dream of owning a home there one and day in the U district. sigh.

[Tight_rope]

52. I totally understand your being upset....It's like I'm working for nothing.

[Common Sense Party]

86. Does your employer match any contributions?

[SoCalDem]

59. We have decided to not even open the statements for a while

No reason to worry about money we no longer "have"..

[Common Sense Party]

84. That's actually a wise strategy.

I didn't open any statements from mid-2000 until 2002. I knew it was going to be down. Why punish myself by seeing how badly it was down?

It's not money you no longer have. It's shares of companies that are temporarily marked down. Those shares will go back up. You may not want to believe it, but they will.

Meanwhile, keep contributing. Keep buying more and more shares while they're cheap.

[NeedleCast]

71. I moved 80% of my 401K into more conservative investments

and have done okay. It's not earning nearly as much as it has been but I managed to at least make a little money in this last cycle by having right next to no money in the market. Don't be afraid to call your portfolio manager at your 401K holder and ask for advice. That's their job.

Also keep in mind that your 14% loss is only a paper loss right now. The market will eventually rebound and then you'll be able to suck up more shares for cheap with each investment you make. In the end, the market taking a dive isn't always (in fact it seldom is) a bad thing for long term investors.

[Common Sense Party]

85. You have a portfolio manager at your 401(k) holder?

Is it a financial advisor, or is it someone on a 1-800 line?

[B Calm]

118. I'm not looking for a rebound anytime soon. It's going to get worse,

much worse, before it gets better!

[Common Sense Party]

128. And you know this how? n/t

[ThoughtCriminal]

87. I'm planning on retiring in 10-15 years

I haven't really considered moving my retirement out of our mutual funds yet, but I'd be lying if I didn't say I was nervous about it. Due to a job move, we also have a vacant house (paid for fortunately) that we haven't been able to sell (soft rental market too).

This decline looks way nastier than anything else we've seen. I'm expecting that we're in the early stages of a LONG hyper-stagflation period. Feels like the early 1970s - probably worse.

[JeanGrey]

89. Mine too but I still have way more money than I ever could

had I invested in just the bank. WAY MORE.

[Common Sense Party]

98. People like you (with success stories) need to be heard more often.

Average, normal, middle-class Americans do it ALL the time. It's not always easy--not as easy as, say, spending that money on clothes or movies or beer or cable or whatever--but people still do it. People on modest incomes still put away five or ten percent, they think long-term, they let it ride, knowing there will be ups AND downs, and in the long run, they find they've done quite well.

[spanone]

93. tell me about it.

[mainegreen]

119. Huh. I'm up 7%.

Different portfolios I guess. Still, yours will go up eventually, and mine will go down eventually. If you have ten years or more, ride it.

[Tiberius]

123. I "timed" the market

The propaganda drives me crazy. The "financial advisers" say to never try and time the market. That's propaganda to always keep you 100% invested.

Well, every once in a long while I think you should follow your convictions and try to time the market. I saw a lot of risk out there and moved into boring bond funds around October of 07. I make 1% a quarter. But I can sleep at night.

I'll get back in when the crap really hits the fan.

[slackmaster]

127. Timing the market is possible but it takes a lot of time and thought

It's hard to do that when you have a full-time job.

[whatchamacallit]

132. I reallocated to the "cash option" (money market) 4 months ago

I'm not making money, but I'm not bleeding out my ass either.