Microsoft on Vista: ‘The time of worry is over.’ (ZDNet)

[regnaD kciN]

Yes, it's true:

Microsoft wants its partners and customers to know that it’s done letting its competitors and critics walk all over Windows Vista.

So, what is Microsoft doing about it? Are they finally fixing the multitude of bugs and performance issues in Vista, and putting out an update that doesn't have its users clamoring to "downgrade" their machines to XP?

NO!!! Instead, they're -- wait for it -- preparing a pro-Vista P.R. campaign!!!

While Brooks didn’t call out Apple by name (he instead referred to a “pretty noisy competitor out there”), he made it clear that Microsoft is finally going to hit back via ad campaigns, including the $300-million-plus one it has under development with Crispin Porter + Bogusky.

So, Microsoft is taking the true American path to solving product problems -- spend hundreds of millions on ad campaigns to convince the public that their perception of the problem is wrong, while shifting developers (you know, those people who have the ability to fix buggy software) over to the upcoming "Windows 7" (due a year and a half from now).

Ain't that America, for you and me, baby?

:crazy:

More here.

[LakeSamish706]

1. I must admit, I have had very little to do with Vista and plan on keeping it that way.....

Of course I realize that any and all new machines have Vista loaded, but I will stay in the 50's again with my XP...

[cliffordu]

2. Self delete....should have been response to OP....

:rofl:

[Fridays Child]

3. I hate Vista. Twice I tried to install SP 1, and both times...

...I ended up having to re-install the entire operating system.

[Cronus Protagonist]

27. Is there no chance at all that you're fucking it up yourself?

I have no such problems with Vista, and in fact, I have none at all. Hey, I even like it a little.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

46. I'm glad I haven't tried that yet. I guess I have to wait for sp2 *sigh*

[cliffordu]

4. Do I love LINUX, or what?

:rofl:

[LakeSamish706]

5. What Linux are you running? n/t

[cliffordu]

7. Right now I'm using Ubuntu, but

the distro it comes from - Debian - is fine. Over the years I've pretty much used all of them.

Debian is probably the longest favorite. Used to be Red Hat.

I used to use the BSD's pretty regularly, too, my favorite being OpenBSD - it makes a real nice firewall....


I can't EVER see a reason to go back to M$. I've pretty much been Microsoft free since 1995 or 96....

[LakeSamish706]

9. I need to go back there.. The release that I tried was s7.10 Ubuntu...

but I'm sure that there have been many newer versions since this one.... I'm going to work on that tomorow.... Having been in Data Processing since the early 80's it's time that I got up to speed... Wish me luck.. lol

[cliffordu]

20. You don't need any luck any more, really - the user interface is really excellent

any more....

Have fun, though!!

[riverdale]

22. How do you get drivers for Ubuntu?

I don't know anything about Linux. All I know is, even going between different versions of Windows, it's a hell of a time getting all the right drivers. I even had to uninstall Windows Server 2003 and go back to XP because certain drivers were not available for that OS.

[silverojo]

25. Linux distros often have the drivers built in to the operating system

I didn't need to download a driver for any of my peripherals. I even bought a Toshiba flash drive, and it works fine--no driver necessary.

[cliffordu]

30. I don't use cutting edge or proprietary hardware -

I don't know what kind of drivers you need -

The most problematic are wireless cards from what I understand - I don't do wireless so I have no real expertise on which cards to use -


To learn I would just get a cheap, good machine and get UBUNTU off the internet, burn the iso and boot her up.

Microsoft is TONS harder as far as drivers go than Linux - this didn't used to be the case but unless you are using cutting edge hardware, drivers for everything is pretty much available.....

Winmodems used to be the bane of Linux notebook users, then it was wireless cards - that's because in both cases Microsoft had the code needed to run the cards locked up with the vendors......Linux was left out...but that was a long time ago.

[riverdale]

32. Drivers, the one thing stopping me from taking the plunge out of windoze

I have three computers, so I play around with them sometimes.
With my Dell laptop, the problem in moving to another OS was video drivers. That was the one driver that simply did not exist for Windows 2003 Server. So it went to the default video driver, which in no way would be acceptable with a laptop. A lot of frustration later, I had to wipe out the hard drive and start over again with XP. Just because the damn video driver I needed did not exist. I would anticipate Linux having similar frustrations, probably x10 harder to find drivers for that.

[comtec]

35. Nope, linux has MROE support for the odder stuff actually

because.. ell.. lets face it people who develop for Linux ARE odd :)

But any driver you need is out there, especially if it's an oddie.
Also the Ubuntu forums are very helpful, people are friendly, and there are only a few asshats out there.
most of the guru's have mellowed and understand that a lot of people are coming to Ubuntu for their first cup (java jokes) of Ubuntu.

If you want to still have the look and feel of windows I would strongly recommend Kubuntu, which uses KDE as the windows manager (the thing that handles all the running programs in pretty 'windows') which tends to look and feel like windows.

Goto Ubuntu.com and take a look.

8.04 is a very stable release (as in lotsa features, few bugs) and support about everything but the latest bleeding edge stuff (and Nvidia is very linux friendly)

[cliffordu]

36. I 'll bet your dell laptop will work just fine with Debian or Ubuntu.

And windoze 2003 server was a hack. Try Ubuntu for sure.


It is NEVER 10 times harder to find Linux drivers than M$ drivers for any given hardware.

If the Linux drivers are available, in 99% of the cases - going to be automatically installed when you set up your machine.

If they aren't installed automatically, they probably don't exist. But this is so rare I shouldn't even say it.

Don't anticipate having no luck with Linux and your machine(s) - I'll bet you won't.

[high density]

42. Tons harder? Not really.

I installed Windows Vista SP1 in May on some fairly cutting edge hardware and it came with built in drivers for everything but my printer. That didn't stop me from installing the latest drivers from the hardware manufacturers but it offered plenty of stuff for the basic user to get started. I agree that Linux has great hardware support (and likely wider support than Vista when it comes to older hardware), but don't blame Microsoft when hardware vendors fail to write device drivers for Linux. That's a cost and supply/demand issue more than anything else.

[cliffordu]

43. They didn't call it a winmodem in Dell laptops for nothing -

and there is STILL a dearth of decent drivers for wireless cards that, oddly enough, were designed with the help of Microshaft, you know, to guarantee compatability with XP or Win2k, or 98 or whatever other piece of shit they're pushing now. The code for the "standard" drivers are closed. By contract.

They are going to try to do the same thing with this new 'XML' standard they've been trying to push through the ISO committee. IF that actually happens, if they are successful in owning the standard, your 'internet experience' is going to get a lot more expensive.

It reminds one of the "problem" people had with Norton Commander and the error messages that would magically appear when trying to install it over MSDOS.

OR the fact that EVERYONE who works CSS for a living has to write exceptions for that virus riddled piece of shit M$ calls a browser - Internet Exploder.

M$ has a long and storied refusal to play nice with ANYONE who might, for instance, install netscape as the default browser in their OEM computer software load....which, if you recall is how they got tagged a monoply the FIRST time they got caught punking out the competition by blackmail, bribery and anti-competitive practices.

or threaten to withhold Office from Apple for the same reason.


I was recently offered a contract to index a bunch of documents - a series of rewrites of the same subject -
but the client wanted me to use MS Word. I fiddled around for two days with a machine so sluggish it was unusable - this is a new machine, by the way....I dropped the job rather than put up with anything M$.

Pure Chrysler-like garbage.


I've been writing about M$ for a long time, off and on - you can read the old stuff at singlespeednation.com, under "Linux".

You might not like it, but it will give you a historical perspective as to what kind of swine they actually are.

Microsoft Vista: 32 bit kludge to a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit rewrite of a 4 bit operating system from a two bit company that cannot handle ONE bit of honest competition.

[frog92969]

10. I use XP to run four games

And that's all it's good for.

Linux has it all (except DirectX).

[silverojo]

23. I'm using Puppy Linux

I use Windows 98SE for any Windows-related stuff that I can't do in Linux.

Here's how the world can avoid worrying about Vista: DON'T USE IT.

[madokie]

49. just for fun I have puppy linux on a one gig SD card

that I can run from any computer with a usb port and it works just fine.

changed card to port

[cliffordu]

55. I figure I'll have to post stuff to the innernet with a little linux webserver running off

of a usb stick. Run the whole thing off a stashed wireless pda......Or go from wireless signal to wireless signal, sending out the tar.gz of the daily website...maybe torrents.....


Listening to the Talking Heads' 'Life during wartime.' TOOOO serious,....


heh.

[Warpy]

6. I've got this box, a slow backup box

and a slow laptop I take on trips. All 3 have XP. If all 3 conk out before Microschlock fixes their program (or comes out with a real improvement when they come out with Windows 7), I will dig my ancient NEC out of the closet and try to remember what the hell Win 95 does and doesn't do.

If all my alternatives conk out and the problem still isn't fixed, it'll be Linux or I'll treat myself to a Mac.

[awoke_in_2003]

38. "I'll treat myself to a Mac"

I did that shortly after OSX came out- when the first flat screen Imacs were introduced. Was using linux and FreeBSD two years prior to that. I am forced to use XP at work, but at home I will never go back.

[emilyg]

8. I hate Vista. Hate it. Hate it.

[LakeSamish706]

11. Ok, The question has to be asked.. Why do you hate Vista? n/t

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

14. It's slow.

It's slow everywhere. It can take a great machine and make it average. 4 GB of RAM is needed before it starts running well. It's a huge install. It's non-intuitive. It's bothersome. It's got DRM out the wazoo, to the point that the traffic it generates talking back and forth with Microsoft is a big reason why enterprises are not going to it.

It's just silly.

[BlooInBloo]

16. Vista can do everything XP can do. Vista just makes it harder.

[Greyhound]

39. Yes, locks, crashes, BSOD, not work with a huge variety of applications, cripple JAVA,

But most importantly, it can tell when you might, maybe, have installed it on another system and make sure you have to send M$ more $$$$, for that is it's primary function.

[Cronus Protagonist]

52. hahaha

I'm sorry you had such a bad personal experience with it. Mine was the opposite. Installed clean and easy. Updates are a breeze. Secure. Fast. The only issue I had was with the slow file transfer in the network and that was easily fixed by unchecking a simple checkbox. vista is sweet and fast and good for me. Maybe you need to buy a Mac, I hear they work without any technical knowledge at all.

[Greyhound]

57. Nice try junior. I don't use it. I'm the guy you wish you could get to when your admin

has no clue and the department director deems it important enough to blow the budget this month.

I have a long time acquaintance that is a VP at M$ , and even he will admit, on assurance of anonymity of course, that Vista is a kludgey piece of shit that can bring the most advanced and elegant system to it's knees.

So go peddle your PR induced ignorance to somebody that doesn't know what a real OS is.

[Cronus Protagonist]

58. Sure boss

You do not know to whom you speak, but your claims on Vista reveal a lot more than you might like about yourself.

[Greyhound]

59. Sure I do, another Microserf who's living depends on the perpetual problems

created by one of the biggest cons ever perpetuated in this "capitalist paradise". But don't worry, we'll keep it all running in spite of your scam.

[emilyg]

17. Too much unnecessary stuff on it

Confused me - ended up giving a 1 day old Dell with Vista to my daughter. Re-hooked my old xp and kissed it with joy.

[LakeSamish706]

19. Lol... Wow.. Thanks for the feed back... I guess there is a good reason why I should stick...

with my XP....

The funny thing here is, I was employed as Systems Manager for 18 years at a resort hotel..... Have all the credentials, and worked thru the Microsoft systems from Dos/Windows 3.X and upward.... I thought that Win 98 was pretty good and then they came out with Win 2000.. ugh.. That really sucked big time.... went thru the growing pains of win xp and now vista.... lol... we are right back to win 2000 at this point... What comes around goes around I guess.

[1]

21. another question. are these problems from upgrading a pc to vista?

from xp or where ever?

or do these problems exist in a machine you buy that already has vista installed.




the reason i ask is my windows2000 machine is on death's door (this one. ack! ack!) and i received a box today containing a new pc with vista as the operating system...

[silverojo]

26. Apparently, upgrading is worse than Vista being preinstalled

Vista does not play nice with "older" XP-era peripherals. You pretty much have to buy a new printer, etc., to make Vista work. And even at that, Vista is VERY slow even when it does work.

[Feron]

48. That's a peripheral manufacturer problem, not Vista's.

Microsoft can only provide drivers that the manufacturers give them. And generic drivers may decrease functionality. It's the joy of closed source.

My printer does not work in Linux because Lexmark doesn't provide Linux drivers (or at least for my model) and the generic ones do not work. That doesn't mean ,however, that the operating system is defective because Lexmark doesn't support Linux.

If you have an older printer or whatever, I'd suggest checking the manufacturer's website and see if there is a driver download in the support section. It all really depends on how long a company is willing to support a piece of hardware.

[reclinerhead]

54. Horsepuckey

Sorry but you are posting out of your ass.

"You have to pretty much buy a new printer, etc".

Every single posting about Vista here elicits this unfounded crap. Have you actually used it, or is this the usual jab at MS?

[emilyg]

29. It was a new one with Vista on it.

[high density]

41. If the PC came with Vista you shouldn't have any problems

The issues come up when people try to run hardware from the Windows 98 era on Vista without new drivers for it. Old, poorly designed software can also be a headache.

[frog92969]

12. I think they just hang around to make computing miserable

Do they make software? I thought they were a law firm.

[Super Soaker Sniper]

13. I bought a PC last month

after I found one with XP. Had I not, I would have gotten a Mac. No way in hell I would ever get a system with Vista. My oldest daughter has a Vista based system at her house and I hate dealing with that piece of shit when I am there.

[emilyg]

31. When mine fully dies - that's exactly what I plan on doing.

[BlooInBloo]

15. I heart my XP box.

[HughMoran]

18. Vista - I'm used to it, but it's really no better (XP) and is still (SP1) slower and a resource hog

Some software still doesn't work properly - why should I have to pay for new Adobe software?

[depakid]

33. You can say that again

It's a slug and crashes firefox and pdf files with annoying frequency.

[ToeBot]

24. So Microsoft makes a product that no one needs or wants (for the most part)

and now they find themselves losing a tiny bit of market share. It's next to impossible to have any sympathy for them, particularly since they resorted to extortion to get gamers to upgrade. What's really astounding is the amount of money they claim to have spent developing this bloated POS; a sum equivalent to the cost of the Apollo moon landing. i.e. billions and billions and billions. Whatever.

So spend another fortune on PR, it wont change the fact that there is no good reason to spend money upgrading to Vista. But hey, all the new computer buyers that get a basic machine with Vista installed wont know what a drag it is on their new Dell, and in this way, Vista will eventually dominate the market; unless it's supplanted by Windows 7.

[Cronus Protagonist]

28. I need it. I want it n/t

[ToeBot]

44. I doubt it. nt

[Cronus Protagonist]

53. I know it. n/t

[DCKit]

34. "Suffer for another year (anyone remember how late Vista was?), stay loyal to us...

and MAYBE we'll roll out the product we promised Vista would be four years ago."

Maybe the investors will get lucky and the ad campaign will drive the stock price high enough to sell at a profit.

[Greyhound]

37. Anyone remember ME? You know, the fundamentally flawed OS that they

flogged on to the public, took the billions and told the public, "sorry you're fucked, thanks for the money suckers."

Then pushed everyone to Win2K.

No prosecution that time either.

I love the corporate states of amerika.

[high density]

40. I've been running Vista since May

I like it, though I wouldn't recommend wasting time or money on upgrading an existing XP system to it. I have yet to find a new feature that is really amazing. Some are nice, such as Aero, DirectX 10, and ReadyBoost, but none are earth shattering additions. I'm not yet convinced that it would be good in a corporate environment.

[Cronus Protagonist]

50. Not such a good upgrade frmo XP but the Media Center is awesome!

That aspect alone makes it worth the effort. I have a tuner capture card and the Microsoft remote control works fabulously with the Media Center - better than Tivo and cheaper too (free).

Oh, and the sidebar? Awesome. The search feature? Fucking ay! Stability? Rock solid. Security? Best ever.

:)

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

45. LOL! I already feel better owning this POS Vista!

[varkam]

47. I guess I've been lucky. I've had Vista for 7 or 8 months or so and no problems.

:shrug:

[Rex]

51. Tried Vista 32 and 64 bit. No bad, very buggy but ran most

programs fast...thought not any performance boost over XP pro. Sad they can't stick with a product and just support it. I guess Mack and Windoze will just keep making a mediocre next version forever and ever. Easy money IMO.

[HannibalBarca]

56. I grow weary of this constant MS bashing

it's like some dreadful never ending schoolyard game. I use Vista on a dell laptop and my main desktop PC, no problems at all and in point of fact I find some of it's features quite handy, hard drive thrashing is a bit irksome but that's mainly down to processes that can be readily terminated. Also own a macbook and just don't appreciate OSX, it's interface and overall feel despite the fact that is extremely stable but then on my vista and previous XP machine I would find it almost impossible to recollect a fatal crash.