We have become that which we feared

[Subdivisions]

...during the Cold War.

We have become the Soviet Union.

[FiveGoodMen]

1. Yes we have.

And you can be damned sure the rest of the world sees us that way.

What a nation of Morans.

[merh]

2. Oh bullshit

You can still post your OP with out being carried off to some frozen tundra or without losing your job and being forced into poverty.

Christ, the drama in here is way over the top.

That law does not do all you folks give it power to do and it has yet to be scrutinized by a Court of law, you know the folks that are actually hearing the lawsuits and know what the shit the gov was up to.

[Blue_In_AK]

6. Hey, Merh, don't speak badly of frozen tundra. n/t

[mr_hat]

9. Line-caught then flash-frozen tundra isn't bad.

Don't thaw it sitting out, though.

[merh]

12. LOL

:rofl:

:hi:

[Blue_In_AK]

15. Hey, how's life in your new home?

I think of you often down there. :hi:

[merh]

19. I love it

I never want to leave - I am more than happy to just sit on my back dock and take photos and drink coffee and daydream.

Then I have to deal with reality and leave :(

But then I get to come back to my house and the trailer is but a distance nightmare.

Thanks for asking, how's the tundra? ;)

[Blue_In_AK]

24. Still here. :-)

[Hydra]

7. They can use evidence in court seized from illegal wiretaps

You think that won't be abused when evidence says they are spying on all of us already?

[merh]

10. No they cannot.

You folks don't have a clue how the 4th amendment protection is afforded citizens.

If the search was illegal, that is if there was no probable cause and no lawful warrant/order issued based upon that probable cause, then the fruit of that search is illegal and the charges based upon the search are automatically tossed out.

FRUITS OF THE POISONOUS TREE - it still exists and no friggin bill passed by this Congress or any other Congress will change that.

Man - use some common sense, think for yourself. You know, YOU HAVE TO KNOW AND UNDERSTAND YOUR RIGHTS TO BE ABLE TO FIGHT FOR THEM.

[Hydra]

13. You just don't get it

Without a branch of Gov't willing to go to bat for the 4th amendment, it's dead.

Executive? Hell no!
Judicial? Maybe...if we pray really hard
Legislative? Just shot it.

Think I'm going overboard?

http://arstechnica.com/articles/culture/fisa-compromise.ars

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6422992

H.R. 6304 further trivializes court review by explicitly permitting the government to continue surveillance programs even if the application is denied by the court. The government has the authority to wiretap through the entire appeals process, and then keep and use whatever it gathered in the meantime.

Mind you, none of this is new- they've done and attempted to do all of this before...BUT NOW IT'S LEGAL.

[merh]

20. Instead of posting what the ACLU has to say

please provide me the provision from the legislation that provides what they say it says.

While you are researching it, please pay heed to the references to probable cause, FISA order, 4th and 1st amendments, substantial evidence and the like.

[Hydra]

21. No, I think I'll take the ACLU's word for it

Since several Congresscritters complained of the same problems regarding the judicial review.

Enjoy your illusions of legal protections. I'm sure they will be very comforting if they ever decide to turn your life upside down.

[merh]

25. Translation: "I have no clue where it is in the legislation."

Sweet Pea, there will be no legal protections if another repuke gets the WH and if we don't put more dems in office.

[Hydra]

27. Hahaha!

Honestly, I don't feel like slogging through the bill when other people have done it so admirably.

I did that with the Military Commissions Act of 2006 when people like you asserted that citizens were protected from being arrested without charge. Plenty of people like me and various Senators did the legwork to discredit the RW talking points, and people like you asserted that it simply wasn't so.

It must be a joy to be able to move through the world without facts. So much easier when you can simply believe something else when the evidence doesn't fit your worldview.

Good day.

[merh]

30. LOL

It must be a joy to be able to move through the world without facts. So much easier when you can simply believe something else when the evidence doesn't fit your worldview.

You should know since you just admitted you haven't read the legislation.

[FiveGoodMen]

31. I don't see where you've shown that the legislation says otherwise...

Have you read it?

If so, maybe you could point out the pertinent sections.

[merh]

33. Yes, I have read it.

Have you?

Check out my journal, there are plenty of entries debunking the crap put out about this bill.

[Hydra]

3. Yup

And dark parallels to the Nazis, too.

I get to say it, because I've been saying it since 2000

I TOLD YOU SO!

"How much damage could he possibly do?"

More than I EVER thought possible.

[bdamomma]

26. due to this cabal our country is unrecognizable. not the same

country at all, unless we make an effort to get her back.

[shadowknows69]

32. And we all know what point that effort is at

When the the branches of government refuse to provide checks and balances on each other, the idea of a nation of laws is an illusion.

[scheming daemons]

4. such hyperbole

We survived McCarthyism in the 50s....


We survived assassinations of our best and brightest in the 60s....


We survived Nixon in the 70s....


We survived arm-for-hostages in the 80s....


We survived "the hunting of the President" in the 90s....


We'll survive this too.




Sheesh.

[aquart]

5. Then you don't know a thing about the Soviet Union.

[charlyvi]

8. I feel your pain, Texas Explorer,

but I don't think we're quite in the same category.

[Subdivisions]

11. I'm just extremely frustrated right now. I fee like nothing I do or say

means an thing.

I'm tired.

[charlyvi]

18. It means something

I read a book for a Sociology class once, "The Power of the Poor in History". Once the dam breaks, all hell will be unleashed. And we will prevail. Just recoup and get back in there!

[Hydra]

28. Heh

I know EXACTLY what you mean. Lots of spin and denial infesting DU since our Reps casually told us to go to hell.

[spanone]

14. uh huh

[mmonk]

16. Pretty much. Domestic spying, torture, persons in government

above the law, closed borders, a propagandist press, and we're close to the implosion from being overextended.

[Hannah Bell]

17. The US has a higher % of its population incarcerated, under house

arrest (monitored movement) or deprived of their civil rights for previous convictions than the USSR ever did. Today wrongful conviction for Black Panther, 36 years in solitary.

It's not frozen tundra - so what?

[TexasObserver]

22. If you have feared becoming ridiculously overreactive, that's true.

The Soviet Union?!

Not even close.

We haven't even become the United States in the 1950s.

[Igel]

23. Be careful.

If you're right, your boss will have a talk with you tomorrow, and you might lose your job. At the next party meeting people might be expected, on cue, to stand up and denounce you, and expect you to denounce yourself as compensation. Of course, if they're your friends, it's doubly important that they denounce you, otherwise they might also be subject to "criticism".

If you lose your job and can't show that you're gainfully employed in a licit job, you might be arrested as a parasite. Repeatedly. Until finally they get tired of just harassing you.

One clue that's coming is when you get mail with bits blacked out or missing. No little bags saying that your mail was damaged. No, no, just tape. It's understood why the tape was there. If you're really in trouble, you can count on your kids, and possibly nephews/nieces, not getting into college or promoted at work, unless they properly denounce you and inform on you. Maybe they won't even get getting jobs ... which means that they're also parasites, and subject to arrest.

If you move, you get to register your new address with the local police--that's assuming that you're not in trouble, it's what citizens routinely had to do. Assuming that you had permission to move, and approval to live in the city you moved to, otherwise trying to register is pointless. And were assigned an apt. (unless you move in with friends or relatives, but getting a job without a residence permit is tough, and leads to your being a parasite ...).

Granted, most of these things were nuisance-level problems. Parasites were ignored, residency violators no big deal. Unless you stepped out of line.

If you're arrested, remember, that lawyer is appointed by the state, and serves first the state, and then you. Few arrests that were taken to trial didn't end in conviction, unless you managed to recant or turn state's evidence--the lawyer doesn't want to run afoul of the authorities and be in your shoes. When convicted, you might just be put in a normal jail. But if it's serious, or political (I repeat myself) you can count on being put to work. Not a few hours a day in a shop. But 10 hours a day or more. In some "jails" you can count on a 30% or 40% death rate ... annually. Ponder your 10 year sentence with that stat. Prison rape starts to look not so bad, except that it's not an either/or proposition, but a both/and proposition.

The idea of a warrants or exclusionary rules? Chain of custody? Being confronted with your accuser? Being allowed to see evidence ahead of time? Trial by jury? Habeas corpus? Nah. Bougeois notions.

Have you complained to your legislator? Uh, oh. Your name's on the list. Expect that conversation with your boss tomorrow.

Otherwise consider your assertion disconfirmed.

[Tindalos]

29. Not sure it's that bad.

Do you mean in terms of oppression? Maybe it could go that way if things don't turn around, but I don't think the US is anywhere near Soviet-level yet.