I'm just wondering.. would DU have the same reaction upon hearing of the death of cheney?

[notadmblnd]

would we have the same bunch coming out and condemning those who would not say nice things about him upon his death? Would people say,"after all he was human and I feel for his family." I for one would celebrate the news. How do you folks feel about it?

On edit: I have refrained from posting on any of the recent high profile deaths and I'm not making a comment now. I was just curious to know if every ones reactions would be any different?

[bemildred]

1. I'd celebrate quietly. There is no need to be tacky about it.

Why lower yourself to their level?

[notadmblnd]

24. I wouldn't be tacky about it

but I think it would do wonders to lift the heavy fog of despair that has enveloped the past eight years and I would drink to the tremendous sense of relief.

[bemildred]

33. I admit it would be hard not to spend the day in an ecstatic haze. nt

[Midlodemocrat]

2. There would be grave dancing of epic proportions.

You think the Russert fest was bad? You should have seen this place when Reagan died. Or the Pope.

[Faygo Kid]

3. Tony Snow may have been a lot of things, but he was no Darth Cheney.

I think the policy Skinner implemented this time was the right one.

Cheney is a different story. He has done incalculable harm to the nation and the world, and he's not finished. You really can't compare the two.

[notadmblnd]

7. So his agents are less guilty?

the ones who do his dirty work are more virtuous, even if they carried out directives willingly?

[LeftishBrit]

16. He wasn't an agent even; he was a supporter.

If he'd never been born, the outcome of politics would have been exactly the same IMO.

His role as a publicist and advertiser for the Bush regime and the war pales in comparison to Murdoch and the various RW talk-show hosts and our tabloid journalists: the latter had FAR more role in the shaping of public opinion.

[notadmblnd]

18. But he was part that before he formally joined the BFEE

IIRC, he was a Faux news anchor.

[Faygo Kid]

26. Before you think I am too sympathetic, look here.

What I wrote in May 2006, when his cancer was announced: http://journals.democraticunderground.com/faygokid/3

[notadmblnd]

32. I wasn't suggesting anyone was too sympathetic

I was just curious as to whether people would feel different depending upon the person who has passed. I wasn't trying to judge anyone for anything they've said, good or bad against these recent deaths. Simply curious as to how someone feels and why and what level of evilness or saint hood changes that.

[stimbox]

41. Worse, he was a spokesliar for him and the rest of the war criminals.

I'm sure there would be many on DU who would condemn us for dancing/pissing on Cheney's grave.

"oh, what would the Republicans say?"

"You're making us look bad."

:eyes:

[stray cat]

4. I would hope progressives did not have the same values as the worst freepers

but clearly there is little difference between hateful progressives versus hateful freepers - someone once said they were two sides of a coin - and that has been my impression of a small group on both ends of the political spectrum

[LARED]

5. I think public displays of viciousness are demeaning to DU

Doing that puts us in the same light as them.

[Lyric]

6. I wouldn't celebrate. I'd feel relieved.

And it's possible to feel relief quietly, without making a tasteless public scene of it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. Well since Cheney is as evil as a human being can be,

I would a have a hard time expressing any regrets.

And if he doesn't die in a jail cell, I will be angry.

If Skinner asks us to be respectful, I would have to take a vacation from DU :)

[MannyGoldstein]

9. DIfferent Situation

Tony Snow was currently in a position where he could do no harm - there was no benefit from his death, only sadness.

Cheney, on the other hand, has probably been directly responsible for hundreds of deaths (on average) and unquantifiable suffering each day he's been in power. Anything that gets him out of power is a very, very good thing.

[cherokeeprogressive]

10. Must your glee over the death of someone you hate be shared with the community at large?

Is it THAT important for you to jump to the rooftop and crow about how much better a place the world is without the presence of someone like dick cheney? Don't you think we would all know it?

To paraphrase another poster's words, "it's not necessary to voice every thought that comes into your head".

I believe it's possible to feel compassion for family members following the loss of THEIR loved one, even though I reviled the person who died. I even feel that it's possible to voice one without the other. Is that so hard to understand?

I have a childhood friend who is suffering from the same thing that Snow did. Colon cancer that metasticized to liver cancer. I know he's going to be crushed when he hears the news, and I'd bet money that he couldn't pick Tony Snow out of a lineup that consisted of Snow and five women. For him it will be like a death sentence.

No one is asking for anyone to say "nice things" about Snow. Just keep your dancing shoes off of his grave. Hard, I know, but possible.

[notadmblnd]

21. II defy you to find one post where I've danced on anyones grave here.

or jumped to the rooftop and crowed? As I said in my OP, I've made no comments on any of the recent high profile deaths. So this personal attack (accusing me of dancing on his grave) shows me that some of the self righteousness here is only feigned. Am I to assume your message to me is; don't attack the dead, only the living?

[sufrommich]

11. Cheney will only die when the last remaining ring

is thrown into the fiery depths of Mordor.

[notadmblnd]

37. that response should earn you a Duzy

got me laughing. Thanks.

[sufrommich]

38. You're welcome...

But I doubt I'm the first DUer who has made the Cheney/Sauron connection.:toast:

[El Pinko]

12. I don't think I would be all that thrilled about Cheney.

I realized that he has this image of a Darth Vader type, but I don't think he's that horrible. I personally find Bush much worse.

I felt a bit of delight when Helms kicked it. That was a mean old bastard.

Cheney just seems like a misguided jerk who has unfortunately spent a lifetime steeped in the white-rich-guy country club culture.

He's a jerk, but not exceptionally so. Helms was uniquely foul.

[notadmblnd]

15. Really? I see bush as the puppet, willing to be manipulated

but the puppet master is the the Evil Dick. I would have a problem feeling any sympathy for him or any of his family members. I'm curious, why do you think that he is not that horrible? In all of his public displays, I've never seen him have a sense of compassion for anything or anyone. I don't even recall that he ever expressed any remorse for shooting his friend in the face. this is a man that appears to only care about the almighty dollar and no one or nothing else. Hell, I've never heard him publicly say any nice thing about any body.

[El Pinko]

43. Cheney doesn't have good social skills.

He has no idea of how to appeal to people and thus puts them off.

I don't believe that Bush is a puppet at all. Nor do I think he is stupid (although he is in many ways extremely ignorant).

He has carefully cultivated this bumbling hick persona as a way of winning people over. I think his real personality is quite cunning and nasty.

Cheney at least has shown acceptance of his lesbian daughter, for example. I can't think of any instance where Bush has shown any genuine compassion or empathy.

[drmeow]

34. They both have Antisocial Personality Disorders

"a longstanding pattern (after the age of 15) of disregard for the rights of others. There is a failure to conform to society's norms and expectations that often results in numerous arrests or legal involvement as well as a history of deceitfulness where the individual attempts to con people or use trickery for personal profit. Impulsiveness if often present, including angry outbursts, failure to consider consequences of behaviors, irritability, and/or physical assaults."

It is very difficult to treat them and they are unlikely to change. They have no morals and wreck havoc on anything they touch. It is possible that each or both also have other co-morbid disorders. I also think they may both have Narcissistic Personality Disorders:

"a pattern of grandiosity, need for admiration, and sense of entitlement. Often individuals feel overly important and will exaggerate achievements and will accept, and often demand, praise and admiration despite worthy achievements. They may be overwhelmed with fantasies involving unlimited success, power, love, or beauty and feel that they can only be understood by others who are, like them, superior in some aspect of life.
There is a sense of entitlement, of being more deserving than others based solely on their superiority. These symptoms, however, are a result of an underlying sense of inferiority and are often seen as overcompensation. Because of this, they are often envious and even angry of others who have more, receive more respect or attention, or otherwise steal away the spotlight."

Cheney seems to present as more antisocial and Bush presents as more narcissistic but I think they both have both disorders.

Hence they are equally psychotic and destructive just in slightly different ways.

[Hekate]

13. There might be a run on wooden stakes with a view to driving them through his heart after death....

But you know -- nothing disrespectful of the man or his office. :evilgrin:

Yes, grave-dancing demeans us and shows an ugly side to the left we'd sooner not see as being part of ourselves.

I have been dismayed at the bile -- but in the case of Cheney, Rumsfeld, or Bush I would be hard put to restrain myself and might have to take a vacation from DU. A simple libation to the gods might have to suffice.

Hekate

[LeftishBrit]

14. No.

Huge difference. Cheney has been an instigator of ENORMOUS evil. If he died, it might actually save some other people's lives, by slowing down the war machine.

[WhiteTara]

17. there would be dancing in the streets

and sadness that he will not know justice in this lifetime.

[MedleyMisty]

19. Just like all other natural deaths of strangers, I wouldn't really care much

Every single living thing on this planet is going to die a natural death some day, and if I mourned the same for every being that died a natural death I would never stop mourning and my life would not be worth living.

I would certainly not have a problem with pointing out how many unnatural deaths are on his hands, now or as soon as he dies or a decade after his death.

I would probably also point out the inconsistency of people who worship some strangers who die a natural death and demonize others.

[notadmblnd]

23. yiour answer probably comes the closest to how I feel about the recent deaths.

Thank you for that post.

[Swamp Rat]

20. I'd get down and BOOGEY!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3twb2jNnllg

[ColbertWatcher]

44. Is that Rosie Perez @ 2:31 !? n/t

[newmajority]

22. I will most DEFINITELY celebrate the death of Richard Bruce Cheney

And I don't mind admitting that I had a few laughs over the thought of Satan roasting a pig named Jesse at Hell's 4th of July barbecue.

But I've seen too many people wasting away from cancer to find any humor in that. Tony Snow was a FAUX News asshat, and a spokesliar for the Bush Crime Family, but I won't celebrate his death.

[notadmblnd]

30. most people don't pass quietly into the night

Almost everyone suffers before passing. I also don't think that there are too many people lives that have not been touched somehow by cancer, living or dead. I haven't celebrated his death either, I was just curious if people's views changed depending on the individual who has passed.

[edhopper]

25. How I would react to Cheney's death

[stimbox]

42. Get out the champagne!

Cheney's death would be reason to celebrate.

[jmowreader]

27. No, we'd be collectively praying the Cheney Prayer

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cheney R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

[DailyGrind51]

28. I would feel that the country had finally been exorcised of the Devil!

[Oregone]

29. "And I'll stand o'er your grave 'Til I'm sure that you're dead"

Fuck it...Some of us were tired of pleasantries long ago. When they start showing respect for us and our deaths (famine, disease, their wars, etc), Ill show respect for theirs.

[edhopper]

31. you beat me to it.

Come you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build the big bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks....

http://www.bobdylan.com/songs/masters.html

[Akoto]

35. Wasn't he summoned from the tenth layer of Hell?

[greenbriar]

36. I would throw a party

and dance on his grave...just saying

[drmeow]

39. "Ding dong the witch is dead"

"Ding dong the wicked Cheney is dead!"

I will be a Munchkin when each and every one of them dies. Dancing, drinks on the house, feelings of joy. Now, I'm not necessarily going to broadcast the reasons for my glee but boy oh boy will it be there.

I would feel no guilt what-so-ever about being happy - any more than I would feel guilt about the deaths of Hitler or Stalin or Pol Pot or (I could go on).

[reger60]

40. Celebrate?

I personally could never celebrate the death of another human being. I would, however, find satisfaction in the notion that kharma had done its duty.

[ColbertWatcher]

45. How about a poem, eh?

BUt, to make it easy, quoted in a movie (Groundhog Day)

The wretch, concentred all in self,
Living, shall forfeit fair renown,
And, doubly dying, shall go down
To the vile dust, from whence he sprung,
Unwept, unhonor'd, and unsung.

[shadowknows69]

46. I would wish his soul a good journey

and then I would crack the champagne.

[Buzz Clik]

47. Some of us feel that a certain period of time should pass before the slamming begins.

Roughly 3 or 4 days. Just enough time for some period of grief (unlikely to happen here at DU for Cheney) and simply acknowledge that the person who died was a human being and left behind a family in pain.

And, yes, I've been very consistent about that, and I'd insist on that for Cheney as well.

Hats off to Skinner for pre-empting this battle over Tony Snow.