Has everyone looked at T Boone Pickens' website?

[TheFarseer]

www.pickensplan.com

I'm sure you've seen the TV commercials by now. I think he's got something here. Basically, we divert natural gas from producing electricity and use it instead to fuel our cars. To make up the difference, we harness wind and solar. Now, I firmly believe plug-in hybrids are going to be the future. He doesn't say plug-in hybrids, but his plan is certainly not exclusive of them and he advocates for more electricity production, which is vital to making plug-ins work. Wind alone probably will not make up for the loss of natural gas as an energy source for electricity AND account for increased demand from people plugging in their cars. Maybe with solar. Maybe with methane from garbage dumps. Maybe with nuclear we can do it, but it can be done and that's the point. Now then, what we run the non-electric part of the car on is open for debate. There are no numbers on how much natural gas it will take and how much we have so I can't say if his specific plan is realistic. We can use what's left of the oil, biofuels or he wants natural gas. Maybe that will work. However he does say that 98% of the natural gas used in the USA is from North America.

It's refreshing to see someone with an actual plan thought out completely and staking their reputation on it. I say good for Mr. Pickens.

[muntrv]

1. True, but don't forget that T Boone funded the swiftboaters against John Kerry.

[TheFarseer]

2. I didn't forget that. I never knew that n/t

[karynnj]

28. I'm surprised you didn't , as it's been covered hundreds of times

As to having plans, many Democrats had plans - John Kerry had an excellent plan in 2004. It was more thought out and comprehensive that this. Pickens suggests one alternative that may or not work. That is ok for a business venture, but not national; policy. Kerry has had many scientists and entrepreneurs speak before his Small Business Committee and his Science and Technology company. Kerry proposes the government helping to fund building prototypes of several of the ways to actually achieve some of these ideas - then letting the market find the winners. Every 2008 candidate had a similar plan. There were differences, but philosophically they were similar.

As to Pickens, he sees an opportunity. I am not even convinced the opportunity IS that he could lead on alternative energy. The opportunity could be to give the RW a talking head for saying that they are the ones actually working on this - though it has been the Democrats and a few Republicans pushing it. Pickens is an extraordinarily rich businessman. If his goal was to set up a company that did this, he could start by hiring people with skills in those areas. If the project was too big for just him - he could put together a consortium with other businessmen. (Would he spend money to help defeat the Democrats? Is the Pope Catholic?)

Instead the first step appears to be the creation of an ad and a website. This, his wealth, and the conservatives who now see with high oil prices, and a candidate who has actually plagiarized Kerry (as did Pickens in his ad - using Kerry's line that we can not dig ourselves out of the energy crisis), a need to say that Republicans want to do this and unlike Democrats they have the plans to really do it. I suspect this is more a political ploy, than a sincere effort. That has happened before - one of the Texas companies created a company that claimed to be green, though some reports were that it wasn't.

As to his ideas, I am not an energy scientist - but it seems weird to use natural gas - which can be explosive (use goggle) and which is used to heat homes to fuel cars. This means that those houses would have to convert to oil or electricity, increasing the demand for electricity. It also requires retrofitting all old cars and the way new cars are made - for a new source that itself is limited. Not to mention, it has been people like Pickens who have said for years that wind and solar are not the answer.

I would be thrilled if Pickens really is putting his money and connections behind alternative fuels - but I want to see something more than words 4 months before an election. Not to mention, if this was important to him - he could have put $1 million to ads in 2004 on why we need to address alternative energy rather than giving it to defeat one of the two strongest candidates on this through despicable lies.

[ray of light]

5. he also lied and renigged on his bet.

[VeraAgnes]

7. Do you have proof?

And if so, I'd say that it is not related, don't give a hoot as the oil/gas crisis in America right now is crippling us. We need action steps.

[ray of light]

12. are kidding me? PROOF of the KNOWN?

Here:

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/the-texan-oil-baron-and-the-winds-of-change-865830.html

"This has to be a bipartisan effort," said the man who offered $1m to anyone who could prove that the Swift Boat charges made against John Kerry were false. When Mr Kerry himself stepped up to disprove the charges, Mr Pickens quickly changed the offer and never signed the cheque.




We need to watch the media like a hawk on this.

Edit: Did anyone know this?

He was one of the inspirations for the rapacious capitalist Gordon Gekko in the movie Wall Street ...

We've been dealing with the "Greed is good" guy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaKkuJVy2YA



~~

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=5255356&page=1

A Vegas gambling expert counts himself among those questioning Texas billionaire T. Boone Pickens' refusal to pay $1 million to Swift boat veterans who claim they won Pickens' challenge to disprove political claims he made in 2004.

Agreeing with the veterans, oddsmaker Ben Eckstein says that failing to deliver on a bet is "sacrilegious." "In the world of betting and gambling, your word is your bond," said Eckstein, president of America's Line, a sports and entertainment oddsmaking business. "Whether it's a $7 bet or a $500,000 bet, once it's made and once you shake on it, it should be done."

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/6/27/9616/80358

[ray of light]

13. By the way..Pickens is a lying, greedy scumbag as you can see from my links above

and if you trust him, then I've got a beautiful piece of land in Florida to sell to you.

[karynnj]

30. Goggle is your friend and it's not hard to use.

Try "Pickens SBVT" or "Pickens Kerry bet" or "Pickens lies" It's not that tough.

Also, IS this an action step? This is just words - words 4 months before an election.

There are many others who have seriously worked on alternatives. There is a MA company that has made an after market battery that can get 150 miles per gallon from a hybrid. Kerry spoke of this all over the contry in 2006 on his book tour and Bill Clinton spoke of what was likely the same battery. But, I never saw the scientist/entrepreneur out speaking of this. Let's not give Pickens credit until he does something concrete.

[MH1]

18. Maybe the reason he is "staking his reputation" is because there's nothing left to lose.

Actually, I have a working theory that he decided he needed to do SOMETHING to change the subject (and save his reputation, maybe), and this is what he latched on to.

If so, then maybe indirectly the smearboat liars have accidentally caused some good. But that doesn't make the whole lot of them any less than lying smearing scum without a single moral fiber to share between them.

[Patchuli]

3. Why didn't he start pushing that

in 2004 instead of spending his time and energy attacking the Democratic candidate for President? Maybe we'd be further along in getting away from oil dependence instead of paying $4.45 a gallon as here in California.

[ray of light]

4. surely you're joking. Here, read the real facts about his plan...

http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/12/yo-t-boone-show-us-the-money/

[TheFarseer]

9. of course this is self serving in alot of ways

because he could make alot of money off natural gas. Also notice I was more praising him for *having* some sort of plan while only picking and choosing parts of it as my own solution. I hope this (or anything) will start a national dialog so that we can develop a strategy for our enormous energy problem.

[Finishline42]

14. Of course Pickens is going to make money on his plan

He invests in areas that he has researched and make sense to him, he's a geologist first, not a salesman.

In the blog you provided a link to, the two main areas of criticism was wind not blowing in the middle of summer (when electric demand is at it's highest) and who pays for the transmission lines.

First, if you watch Pickens Whiteboard presentation, in addition to the wind corridor from Texas to N Dakota that he pushes, he talks about the solar corridor from Texas to CA. So when wind drops off in the midst of summer, solar is at's its peak.

This takes us to transmission lines. Most of our grid is High Voltage Alternating Current (HVAC). As I understand it, they are the cheapest was to transmit, but are subject to significant loss of power as the distance increases. I think there is something about having to maintain constant current or they are subject to becoming unstable. The fact that most power plants are close to where the customers are make the line loss acceptable, in most cases.

In order to ship electricity long distance, the most effecient way is High Voltage Direct Current (HVDC). More expensive (at least now) but our entire grid needs to be upgraded anyway and in order to respond to areas of surplus power and excess demand. For example, currently, the Pacific Northwest has a surplus of cheap clean power and they are shipping all they can to CA, and could ship more if the lines were capable of handling more.

As to the customer paying for the cost, not T Boone, well, OK, who do you think pays for stuff? It's always the customers, one way or another. T Boone has said that he will pay for the lines, he's is just asking for government to clear the way for them to be built. But he is going to recover his cost over time.

I have had time believing that people are up in arms about a long time oil man seeing the light and now he wants to get us moving in the direction of alternative energy in a major way. It's time to get on board.


BTW, I read about this plan in Scientific American December 2007. T Boone didn't invent anything, he's just taking advantage of the resources this blessed earth provides.

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=a-solar-grand-plan

[globalvillage]

17. No one is up in arms because he's a 'long time oil man'

He's a Swift Boat Liar enabler who funded an attack group to lie about John Kerry's service and helped give us 4 more years of Bush. He's also a cheat who welshed on a bet when he got called on his lies. Twice.

[MH1]

19. You can not trust Pickens as far as you can drag his ass

except to manipulate, lie, and scheme to fatten his own bank account at the expense of others.

Whatever he says, it's 100% pure bullshit manufactured for his own benefit.

He has no reputation left to stake, except a thoroughly discredited one.

[screembloodymurder]

16. Don't bother, their hatred clouds the view.

I just want the majority to get behind a solution, and I don't care who contributes to the consensus.

[MH1]

20. Do you really think this lying manipulator is in it to save the world?

He is only going to manipulate whatever he can to maximize his profits.

If you don't want to see that, tough. But that's how it is and anyone who knows his history knows it.

[VeraAgnes]

6. I first heard of him via Clark Howard Radio Show.

Clark Howard has been talking about the gas/oil crisis and has been encouraging listeners to pay attention to Pickens and see what he has to say. So, I too am going to follow-up on this guy.

Thank You for the past and reminder.

[globalvillage]

8. Ugh.

Nothing he says should be taken seriously.

[asdjrocky]

10. Pickins serves himself, and no one else.

This guy is a class a asswipe supreme.

[BrotherBuzz]

11. T Boone Pickens is heavy into CNG

Cheap South American natural gas. T Boone Pickens is all about T Boone Pickens. Don't ever think he is some sort of good guy that wants to help humanity, he's in it for himself and his fellow capitalist predators.

[Dr.Phool]

15. Corporate raider and capitalist predator.

He's left ruined lives in his wake where ever he's been, but he always showed a profit.

[BeatleBoot]

21. He funded the SwiftBoaters Against Kerry in 2004

Do your homework.

[Mass]

22. Pickens has no reputation to lose. His main title to glory until now is to have funded the SBVT,

Like many other oilmen, he sees what is going to happen and is trying to be proactive. Good business decision, but that is all.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[upi402]

24. lol

Okay, take a breath now and go to your special place...
Seriously, Kucinich will go into history as a stand-out patriot. Great avatar.

[TheFarseer]

26. I've been here since 2003

I was not aware of the Swiftboating connection, but as gas approaches $5/gal, I'm just glad SOMEONE is trying to do something about it. I don't care if it's zombie Mussolini.

[Mass]

27. Without Pi ckens, we would have a president doing something about that. This is the problem.

And there are a lot of people doing something about that (or at least trying). Pickens is a little bit of a latecomer on this issue, and I am not clear what he is proposing. May be he would want to support one of the plans that the Democrats and even some Republicans are pushing rather than starting a self promotion campaign,

[karynnj]

32. See Ray of Light's link - it does not seem a real workable plan

and there have been many far more credible people working for years. Many entrepreneurs have already worked on things themselves. The speak to Senate committees and industry conventions - not ads and websites.

Starting with an ad campaign - before doing anything - should tell you something?

How you missed that he was a SBVT funder is beyond me. Our 2004 nominee identified him as one of two key founders (with Perry) - both Bush allies. This was in 2004.

[Finishline42]

35. Please identify a better plan

The only other plan that I am aware of out there is the Bush/McCain plan that focuses on Drill, Drill, Drill the outer shelf and ANWR, 50 to 300 new nuke plants, and destroying the Colorado country side getting to the shale oil among other things - none of them alternative energy based.

Starting with an ad campaign? He had ordered 667 utility scale windmills for his windfarm in Texas - an initial order that is 25% of what will end up being a $10 BILLION investment in Alternative Energy, a investment that will be more than the Bush/McCain administration have/will spend in 12 years total! Did you get that part? Of course Pinkens is going to be making money on his investment - what business wouldn't? He had better - if you want others to follow in his footsteps.

I know of his past, but I think his $10 million ad campaige to steer the debate in this country away from a concentration ONLY on drilling for more oil and building more nuclear plants is worthy of consideration. It's important because Pickens isn't some old hippie dreaming of an alternative energy based future - he's an OIL man. It's a plan that once it gathers steam will help start the painful transition away from an oil based economy.

[karynnj]

38. The only other plan is Bush's?

Did you bother to even look at Obama's web site - he has one - as did every Democrat in 2008 and Kerry in 2004.

Not to mention we would have a better plan in place by now if Kerry would have won and Pickens and the other creeps deserve no praise for any for profit stuff they do now - especially not on a democratic board.

[lonestarnot]

33. Always good to put your trust in an oil barron. It has done so much for this country.

:rofl:

[TheFarseer]

37. I did not say I put my trust in Mr. Pickens

I said he had an interesting idea and I was glad someone was advancing a complete plan even if it might be unworkable. Like someone else said, why this is important is it's an oil barron saying we cannot drill our way to heaven. If you can tell me the Democratic plan and how it is more complete and more workable, I'll shut up. As of now, the only ideas I've seen peculating in Congress is Nancy Pelosi saying we should release the Strategic Petroleum Reserve!

[Tigress DEM]

25. I've heard his ads on Air America. Made me smile.

[Stinky The Clown]

29. TeeBonePicker Is NOT To Be Trusted

There is not an altruistic bone is his body. The ads may seem good, and part so his plan may well be the answer. But what is unsaid is "What Is In It For TeeBone"?

This Snake Will Bite You Right On The Ass.

[dems_rightnow]

31. Somebody's going to make money

from whatever the "solution" might be. I don't care about that NEARLY as much as finding a solution.

[blogslut]

34. DO NOT TRUST T. BOONE PICKENS

He WILL DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE!

[Snotcicles]

36. I think Pickens wants to keep selling his natural gas. Stan Ovshinsky is a real Hero.

And he scares the crap out of those clowns with his Hydrogen Loop.
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Renewable-Energy/2006-10-01/Meet-Stan-Ovshinsky-the-Energy-Genius.aspx

[RB TexLa]

39. Can be summed up as *We should only pay Mericans fer energy!*