When Did Jesus Become RW? Isn't Ayn Rand Totally Atheist?

[Median Democrat]

I wonder since when and how did atheism become tied to liberalism and christianity get tied to the right wing. On the one hand, I've read Ayn Rand who is a strong atheist who is also the virtual matron saint of capitalism:

http://atheism.about.com/library/quotes/bl_q_ARand.htm

http://www.intellectualconservative.com/article3290.html

On the other hand, the Bible actually has verses that would be considered liberal, if not leftist:

"If a man shuts his ears to the cry of the poor, he too will cry out and not be answered."

-Proverbs 21:13

"Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy."

-Proverbs 31:8-9

"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money."

-Matthew 6:24

He who mocks the poor shows contempt for their Maker; whoever gloats over disaster will not go unpunished."

-Proverbs 17:5

"He who oppresses the poor to increase his wealth and he who gives gifts to the rich--both come to poverty."

-Proverbs 22:16

"Jesus answered, 'If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.'"

-Matthew 19:21

"He who gives to the poor will lack nothing, but he who closes his eyes to them receives many curses."

-Proverbs 28:27

Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

- Luke 12:33,34

Indeed, liberation theology, which the Right Wing Christians consider leftist, is based on this quote from Jesus:

"The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to preach the good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, To set at liberty those who are oppressed, to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord." (Luke 4:18-19)

Personally, I attended bible study as a kid, but as I grew older, I became agnostic due to what I perceived to be the hypocrisy of organized religion and its self-proclaimed acolytes. Still, just as we talk about how Big Media has become a propaganda tool for corporations, it seems that religion in America has also been similarly hijacked. Afterall, how can the Evangelical right wing support a Republican party that has turned its back on the needs of most Americans?

Editted to add additional quotes.

[Hardrada]

1. But now we have Supply Side Jesus!!

Someone have a picture?

[Median Democrat]

2. Here you go, great cartoon...

This cartoon really does say it all:

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/03/09/17_franken.html

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[ThoughtCriminal]

13. Trickle Down Salvation

You'll get to work for the rich in Heaven to!

[Hardrada]

28. Thanks!

[mrreowwr_kittty]

9. Beat me to it! Supply Side Jesus was exactly what I thought of! nt

[rpannier]

3. Over the centuries Jesus has gone from a friend of the poor and those in need to

an enabler of the rich and compassionless.

It's actually quite interesting to study the teachings of Organized Christianity.
Prior to the 6th Century, you find very little mention of Hell in any of the writings by influential Church people (Pope, other Clergy, Church scholars and elders).

The teachings and writings centered on the love and compassion of God and Jesus and the 'Good News of Salvation.'

It was only after the final decay of the Roman Empire and Europe was thrust into the intellectual dark ages that Hell became a place of importance.

One could argue that 'liberal theology' is more closely aligned with the very earliest of Christians 35 A.D. to circa 500 A.D.

[OmahaBlueDog]

4. Keeping in mind that I agree with you, here is the counter argument

Conservative Christians do not deny any of what you say, and though they might argue the interpretation of a few of the verses, by the by they'd agree with what you say. Their issue is that it is the role of the Church -- not Government -- to be the conduit through which the poor should be fed. Indeed, they would argue that most social programs -- be they housing assistance, education of all kinds, assistance to the needy and elderly, should be the domain of Church, not Government.

[rpannier]

5. That would be true to a point

There are some in the fundamentalist community who ascribe to the notion that if you are wealthy God has shown his blessings on your piety and faith, while the poor are such because of their lack of faith and reverence.

In a nutshell... You're poor? Your fault.

[OmahaBlueDog]

8. I'd say that's a widely held view

It's the old "If you're so smart, why ain't you rich" argument... if you enjoyed the Grace of God, you'd be bestowed with his blessings, now wouldn't you.

Or, if you're a Randroid (it's own sort of cult), if you're poor, it's because you're lazy, stupid, or have some other failing.

[Median Democrat]

17. That's It - How Did Ayn Rand's Philosophy Get Melded To RW Christianity?

Given that Ayn Rand was an atheist? I don't recall reading in the bible the idea that wealth is a sign that you are blessed, yet that appears to be the prevailing idea with Evangelicals. Likewise, the attacks on social programs would appear to be antithetical to the teachings of Jesus, at least as laid out in the bible. Yet, you have Ann Coulter running around calling liberals godless when the Ayn Rand was a champion of capitalism and atheism.

I would submit that teh GOP's disregard of the lower and middle class would offensive to Christian teachings, rather than dwelling on issues like gay marriage. Can you imaging Jesus laying down moral preconditions before giving his gospel? I frankly find the fact that Bush wraps himself in the bible and the flag to be repulsive to both my faith and my sense of patriotism, since Bush will gladly send men and women to fight and die in a war for oil while he and his vice-president dodged the Vietnam draft, and had the audacity to attack the patriotism of Kerry, a man who actually served.

It is like a Bizarro version of the way things should be. Its a world where Bush, the Born again christian, is advocating torture and preemptive war while claiming that he is guided by Christian teachings. Worse, I have attended services where pastors have spoke in support of the war. Maybe if I start bible study again, I will find the sections that support such policies and views, because I must have missed them the first time I read them.

[Alcibiades]

6. Let churches also provide for national defense

It would seem that the church is left to do those things evangelicals don't think are important. There's nothing preventing churches from doing any and all these things. The fact that they do so inadequately only reaffirms the need for government involvement. There's a whole history of failure, in fact, wherever states have given these things up for the churches to attend to.

[DBoon]

14. don't even suggest that!

someone might take you seriously

[AZCat]

20. You should read this article.

Bush Unveils Faith-Based Missile Defense

[scheming daemons]

7. I'm a fan of both Jesus AND Ayn Rand.....

Though I consider neither of them to be "immortal".


They both said or wrote very thought-provoking things.... agree or disagree.

[OmahaBlueDog]

10. Hitler and Lenin also wrote thought provoking things

.. that doesn't mean I subscribe to them.

Strangely, I know someone who is a Baptist youth minister who is a Rand Fan.... you wouldn't be that person, would you?

[scheming daemons]

21. I am as far from "Baptist youth minister" as a human being could possibly be....

I'm an atheist..... former catholic.


Managed to make it through 12 years of Catholic school without having my brain-washed....

[Bill McBlueState]

11. The only thing that unites atheists is that they don't believe in any gods

Since atheism is simply a statement about the number of gods one belives in (zero), and not a statement about politics, you shouldn't be surprised that atheists subscribe to a range of political philosophies.

Christians are also going to have a range of political beliefs. In a book as large as the Bible, you can find support for a lot of differing views.

[comtec]

25. A lot of libertarians fall into this

I guess you could call libertarianism the real god-less belief system:
"I got mine, and fuck you"
an over simplification but still accurate.
I have met several libertarians, and the basics are the same:
I'm rich, I don't want to pay taxes, the poor should work harder to do better, the government better defend me and my money from the poor. I do good works with my money, so why should I take care of everyone wit my taxes?"

that last one make me completely loose it, i have to admit.
It's like "Well i help some people, why isn't it ok that I fuck the rest?"
Yay, you help those in need, great!

But the government with that same money can help THOUSANDS, not dozens survive day today.
Im glad they're helping those less fortunate, but they want that tiny bit to be IT.. .and they don't want to pay any taxes, and are always banging on about how "there is no mention of taxation in the Dec. or the constitution"...lord have mercy.

I heard about a study once, in the US, I think, where they found that the VAST MAJORITY of money that went to charities, and the poor in general, came from THE WORKING CLASS WHO COULD NOT AFFORD IT!!!!!
Basically if you are a working stiff, or even if you are poor, but ok otherwise, you will give money to those LESS fortunate than you, because it's the right thing to do, despite it making YOUR life that much harder. But hey, "they're in an even worse situation than I am!"

I think overall jesus would be proud of the majority of us, who give just because it's right, and for no other reason. He would be very critical to the top 10%ers who like to hide behind their money and walls, and blackwater security...

[Tutonic]

12. Not a fan of Ayn Rand's Objectivist Philosophy, the early precursor

of the Libertarian party. However, you make a good point. Complex lady but she held some views about race, sexuality, feminism, similar to John Birch, Lyndon LaRouche and Alan Greenspan that I find unsettling. An example is that she believed women should not aspire to be the President. She would have been highly critical of a Hillary Clinton. Jesus on the other hand preached a liberal theology--that would suggest Biblical support for a female president. RW attempts to portray Jesus as a conservative demonstrate a disregard for their core premises.

[devilgrrl]

15. Too bad you can't mention that "god only helps those who help themselves" b.s.

Shame that it isn't written in bible, ain't it? :evilgrin:

[Zhade]

16. Ayn Rand doesn't speak for atheists.

All we share with her is a lack of belief in gods due to the lack of evidence for any.

[Az]

18. The identity of people no longer matters in todays packaged and televised world

What the media deems to define things as is what they become. You are what the talking heads say you are for the simple fact that they are the only things speaking that people hear in common. Thus the definitions laid out by the media become the center around which society comes to understand the identity of a person, place or thing.

[BobTheSubgenius]

19. As Dorothy Parker said...

"This is not a novel to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown with great force."

That happened with my foray into Rand. I got 3 pages into 'For the New Intellectual' and literally threw it across the room. I sensed the selfish, anti-humanist kind of rapacious capitalist hell I would be struggling through. OK, it's not a "novel", but still......there are thousands of books I would actually ENJOY that I'll never get to.

[JDPriestly]

22. Actually, Ayn Rand did believe in God. Based on her books, and I read them in college, I would say

that she believed she was God.

[Kickin_Donkey]

23. It was Reagan back in the '80s that united the two main wings ...

of the conservative movement: economic, pro-business, laissez-faire conservatives and the social conservatives led by fundamentalist-evangelical Christians. You could also call them the Rockefeller Republicans and the Moral Majority. Or, as you would have it, Ayn Rand and Jesus Christ.

Over the last 25 years or so, the two wings of the GOP have glossed over their differences to form a package known as the modern Republican Party. So their constituencies and ideas have been juxtaposed with each other by common membership in the GOP.

I don't think there has ever been a formal philosophical melding of supply-side economics and evangelical Christianity, although there possibly has been religious justifications made for wealth -- as someone upthread said in so many words, "If you're rich, it's because you're blessed by God because you're religious."

These two wings have been in an uneasy alliance, and the seams are really beginning to show in the last couple of years. Christian conservatives feel they've been used for their votes by the economic conservatives. And witness the evangelical-fundy movement's disaffection with McCain.

So I think both Ayn Rand and Jesus were each associated with the Republican Party -- but not necessarily directly with each other. Although we may think of conservatives as a monolith, they are really two streams in the GOP, with some but far from total overlap. This is why you see the contradictions in "conservative" philosophy. Not all pro-business Republicans are social conservatives or evangelical Christians; and not all evangelical Republicans are motivated by economic concerns, but more by social issues like prayer in school, gay marriage and abortion.

Just my two cents.

[and-justice-for-all]

24. And that book is also riddled with contradictions...

...You can find a verse to fit anything and interpret them as you want to.

[UTUSN]

26. Wingnuts DON'T READ much, not even the authors they allege to believe in!1 n/t

[DailyGrind51]

27. Ayn Rand is "high priestess" of the Church of Mammon, the pursuit of wealth

Luke 16:13

13"No servant can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Mammon."