Fox News host: 15 year-old detainee ‘maybe deserved’ harsh treatment

[marmar]

from ThinkProgress:



Fox News host: 15 year-old detainee ‘maybe deserved’ harsh treatment.»


Today, lawyers for Canadian national Omar Khadr, a Guantanamo detainee, released an interrogation video from 2003, showing Khadr weeping and begging for better medical treatment. Discussing the video today on Fox News, host Trace Gallagher declared Khadr had killed an American solider — Khadr is accused of throwing a grenade — and so “maybe he deserves” to be tortured. Watch it: http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/15/fox-news-host-15-year-old-detainee-maybe-deserved-harsh-treatment/


According to reports, Khadr — who was just 15 years old when captured — was tortured while held by the U.S. in Bagram, Afghanistan, where “he was repeatedly brought into interrogation rooms on stretchers, in great pain” and “pain medication was withheld, apparently to induce cooperation.”


http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/15/fox-news-host-15-year-old-detainee-maybe-deserved-harsh-treatment/

[Tab]

1. What have we become?

I don't recognize this country any more.

[Wcross]

8. Yep, he shouldn't be breathing right now.

Seriously, do you not understand what this person did? He left his home in Canada to engage in combat with coalition forces in Afghanistan. He BOUGHT a ticket to go fight his own countries army in Afghanistan. He killed a U.S. Army medic with a hand grenade, not by accident but as a combatant. (gee, I thought by the Geneva convention rules you don't target medics). He wasn't a uniformed soldier in any army.

In my day we would not be having this discussion.

[Tab]

14. And you're proud that we've created an environment where 15 yr olds want to lob grenades at us?

Did you not learn anything from war??

[TexasObserver]

15. When was your day? The Civil War?

You apparently believe everything the government tells you.

We don't know what this kid did, and we may never know. We do know that he's being held illegally by our government, in a gulag the goverment is operating, and has been subjected to inhumane conditions for years.

Whatever he did or is alleged to have done, it doesn't justify our government's conduct, particularly its cruel treatment and torture.

[samsingh]

73. unfortunately, we can't believe anything the bush regime tells

us. if he did kill the medic, he deserves what he got. however, the bush regime could as easily be lying and the boy could have been totally innocent.

i trust nothing the bush regimes or their media puppets tell us.

[rooboy]

21. You don't punish the accused. You punish the convicted.

In what court was this child convicted and sentenced by a judge? Or do you have a different set of principles now in America?

[Tindalos]

22. He has been ACCUSED of doing the things you mention.

He has been neither TRIED nor CONVICTED of anything. Until he is, he is innocent until proven guilty.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

24. Not a lot of us date back to 1930s Germany. n/t

[Zhade]

34. DAMN.

Nailed it.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TexasObserver]

33. No, he wouldn't have been dead back in your day.

Your day was 20 years ago? Did you fight in the Grenada Campaign? That was like taking Disneyland, except Disneyland had better security than Grenada.

You would not have killed this kid 20 years ago in the military. You would have held him as POW, and he would have been treated humanely.

[Wcross]

42. If our medic was killed? I doubt it.

Seriously doubt the kid would have walked away. No uniform, no status as a soldier in any army?

[TexasObserver]

47. First of all, you were NEVER in hostilities anywhere.

So stop popping off like you're Audie Murphy. That may sell at the bar, but I know better.

This kid would have been held as a POW any time in US history until Bush took office.

[yardwork]

50. How do you know he's guilty? Where is the evidence?

They used to lynch people in the United States too. Were they guilty?

[Zhade]

32. Accused, never tried. Thank goodness your day is over.

If you served, I SPIT on your service. My family has been heavily military, and your type DISGRACES the uniform.

[backscatter712]

44. Some points:

Fair treatment for Omar Khadr:
- Arrest and extradition to the U.S. or Canada (he is a Canadian Citizen,) assuming there is evidence he committed a crime.
- Prosecution in a court of law, keeping in mind he is a minor.
- Habeas corpus hearing
- Legal counsel
- Fair trial, right to a jury trial, confronted with evidence.

WRONG TREATMENT, NO MATTER HOW MUCH OF AN SOB HE MIGHT BE:
- Indefinite detention
- Secret kangaroo military tribunals
- Denial of right to legal counsel or habeas corpus
- Withholding of evidence via abuse of state secrets privilege.
- Stress positions
- Hot/cold rooms
- Waterboarding
- Withholding of medical treatment
- Beatings
- Sleep deprivation
- Any other torture.

Any questions?

[yardwork]

49. Where is the evidence that this particular individual committed the crime?

Was his guilt proven in a trial? Or are you assuming that he is guilty because the U.S. government told you so?

[rhett o rick]

61. Sickening. First how do you know he killed anyone? Do you believe the same people that

said Tillman was killed by enemy fire? And second, third, fourth, etc. Americans do not torture. Especially just as a means of retribution. It would take very sick people to order that and to carry that out. In WW II we had lots of prisoners and many probably killed our soldiers. No excuse to torture. There is no civil reason to torture. Torturing is sickness. Would you want our enemies torturing our soldiers?

[dailykoff]

64. Right, and Jose Padilla was planning to dirty bomb Chicago.

Not.

[Monk06]

65. Actually there are no witnesses to the hand grenade incident. No body

saw him throw anything. In fact he was found
unarmed and severely wounded under a tree by
US forces.

His family is also very militant especially
his sisters. He was sent to Afghanistan by
his family to join his uncle and the Taliban
forces before the invasion.

Whether he wanted to go there only he can
say but he was fifteen or perhaps fourteen
when he left for Afghanistan. That makes
him a minor under the control of adults
and hence not culpable for his actions by
the standards of international law.

[Downtown Hound]

66. Well, this isn't your day and we are having it

Bush said that the attacks against the WTC were an act of war, and in war you don't abuse enemy POW's, regardless of what country they're from. This type of behavior is not okay, not now, not ever, and not back in your good old days.

[Heywood J]

71. The Reich thanks you for your service in executing those traitorous French resistance swine.

You will be promoted to Obersturmführer. It was good of you not to make us go through another show trial.

[World Citizen]

2. its not enough that we torture...

we have to have cheerleaders to help celebrate it

[JustAnotherGen]

3. He was a

Child! :grr:

[sakabatou]

4. Once again

Faux News loves torture, especially against children and women.

Fucking bastards.

[TechBear_Seattle]

5. How is this not a war crime? n/t

[Zhade]

9. It is, and Fox Nazis approve.

Sickening.

[Wcross]

13. You do mean on the part of the Canadian, right?

I'll tell you what, don't kill Americans in Afghanistan if you are a Canadian & maybe life will be a little better for you, eh?

[TechBear_Seattle]

19. He was accused, but never convicted

But the possibility that he might have thrown a grenade at American soldiers merits torture? Especially when, after several years of such treatment, he was released with no charges ever being filed?

[Zhade]

31. Wcross apparently doesn't believe in due process.

At least, not for brown children.

[HughMoran]

6. Fox Noise needs harsh treatment too

I'm surprised they've survived this long.

[Wcross]

7. He is lucky he is still alive.

It says a LOT for our soldiers that this idiot is still alive. He is a Canadian citizen who voluntarily went to Afghanistan to engage our forces in combat. He was willing to engage Canadian forces in combat. Out of uniform, as a civilian. Back in my day he would already be dead. "Maybe" he deserved harsh treatment? Hell, in my opinion he deserves a firing squad.

[Zhade]

10. Wow - judge, jury and executioner all in one! Your parents must be so proud.

No worries about a fair trial to even see if he did what he's accused of, right? Just line up the darker-skinned people you merely suspect of a crime and BANG.

Reprehensible.

[Wcross]

23. So a 15 year old Canadian was picked up off the street in Toronto?

Oh, HE was JUDGE, JURY & Executioner when HE killed the Army medic in afghanistan with a hand grenade. Nice of you to "bolster" your argument with a racist accusation. I think it's more about the hand grenade he killed the young medic with scooter. You just don't get it do you? This Canadian goes to Afghanistan to fight our forces, his own countries forces in combat. As I said, he is lucky he is even alive to whine about how bad we treat people who kill our servicemen. Back in my day he would be taking a dirt nap the day he killed the medic.

You do understand he didn't just commit a crime, don't you? He isn't accused of robbing the 7-11, he is accused of traveling to Afghanistan to engage his own countrymen in combat. Oh, out of any uniform I might add.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

25. Whaaaat no UNIFORM you say? Well clearly he should be eaten by

a pack of wild dogs.

[Zhade]

37. Once again, accused, never tried in a court of law.

I know you don't endorse the idea of justice or due process, but thankfully most sane people do.

[Maat]

58. If you are in the military on my nickel ..

I expect you to OBEY THE LAW. That means not TORTURING children (or anyone else), but abiding by the Geneva Convention, which, since the U.S. signed the treaty, IS OUR LAW.

If a person can't OBEY THE LAW, then I want them out of the military, and in a cell (since torturing, even if you call it 'harsh interrogation' is ILLEGAL, not to mention MORALLY REPREHENSIBLE - particularly if it involves a MINOR).

[tuvor]

11. As judge and jury, you need to look at all the evidence.

Or perhaps you've already seen this and can comment.

Secret document casts doubt on Khadr's guilt
Tuesday, February 05, 2008

U.S. NAVAL BASE GUANTANAMO, Cuba -- A secret document accidentally released by the U.S. military Monday raises questions about whether someone other than Canadian terror suspect Omar Khadr could have thrown a grenade that killed a U.S. soldier during a 2002 firefight in Afghanistan.

Comprising a U.S. investigator's report of his interview with the operative who wounded Khadr, the document reveals a second alleged al-Qaeda fighter was both alive and still fighting about the time the grenade was thrown.

The operative also testified Khadr had his back facing him when he hit the Canadian with two bullets. This could be significant because, the document additionally reveals, the U.S. soldier killed in the grenade attack had been behind the U.S. operative.

However, the document concludes that while the operative did not see Khadr throw the grenade, he believes the Canadian did it.

...

http://www.nationalpost.com/newsletter/story.html?id=285287

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

16. Nah, "in my day" it was too messy to consider things like evidence.

Especially evidence that challenges your preconceived redneck notions.

No torture or execution would be bad enough! After all he wasn't even a uniformed combatant, so any possible thing you could dream up to do to him would be justified! :sarcasm:

[Ignis]

70. Nice find. Pity the response is *crickets* from Mr. Macho. (nt)

[TexasObserver]

18. You sound like a rightwinger when you talk like that.

A firing squad? Back in your day?

Take a deep breath and remember ... this isn't your day. The 1950s and McCarthyism are long gone.

[Wcross]

30. Is it "OK" that he killed a soldier?

Shouldn't he have maybe stayed out of the fighting? He deserves everything he gets for what he did. He is a Canadian teenager, what the fuck was he doing throwing hand grenades at our guys in Afghanistan? Yes, back twenty years ago you were not covered by the Genevan convention if you were out of uniform.

[glarius]

39. This kid was taken by his father to Afghanistan when he was 13

years old. He was under his father's control. The incident (if it did happen...there is some doubt it was him that threw the grenade) happened when he was 15! For God's sake....get real! Stop acting like a neanderthaul!

[Zhade]

41. Accused, never proved.

NT!

[TexasObserver]

46. You don't know what he did.

Unlike you, I don't swallow like a big mouthed bass everything the Bush administration puts out. I don't assume anything they say is the truth.

Even if he did exactly as they say he did - and I don't believe that's true - the treatment he has received has been inhumane and unAmerican. It's a shame to all of us, and the fact that you talk tough about it suggests to me you were probably a cook in the military, or maybe a supply clerk.

[rhett o rick]

63. If you think torture is appropriate for anything especially a suspect you aren't human you are a

republicant.

[Winterblues]

68. Every time you post you display more ignorance and anti-American attitudes

There is an old saying you would do well to learn and follow. "Sometimes it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

[NYC Liberal]

78. What jury has convicted him of killing a soldier? nt

[glarius]

20. He was a 13 year old under his father's control when he went to

Afghanistan. He was 15 when he was captured. Get real!

[High Plains]

35. So you recommend executing anyone who fights against the US?

Is that it? Or just torture?

By the way, I think the KID went with his father when he was 13.

Do you think anyone who fights US soldiers should be executed or tortured? And does that go for US soldiers who fight anyone, too?

[northernlights]

69. are you effing nuts or what?

He was found severely wounded and unarmed. Nobody saw him throw a grenade. For that he should be imprisoned, tortured and executed?

You don't know that he went back to Afghanistan willingly.
You also don't know what he did once he was in Afghanistan.
Maybe his family forced him to go back. Maybe once there he was trying to escape back to Canada. You just don't effing know jack effing shit.

Criminies you're as stooopid as my mother. Whack first, ask questions later. And they cry where did we go wrong when nobody wants anything to do with you. But then, she's a rethuglican bush-lover too. :eyes:

[Hippo_Tron]

76. If he had been killed on the battlefield I would have no qualms

But it is a disgrace to the United States to treat our prisoners this way. And yes he was out of uniform. In a world where the power of the nation-state is rapidly eroding we're going to be fighting against a lot more people who are out of uniform, so get used to it. That doesn't give us the right to beat them within an inch of their life after we capture them.

[Canuckistanian]

12. Jesus Christ. Has the whole country gone insane?

OK, OK, I know it's only Faux news.

But I predict there will be NO outrage over this.

Meanwhile, Obama is considered the terrorist.

[GreenPartyVoter]

72. Sickening, isn't it?

[glarius]

17. CNN has been reporting this as if the Canadians are a part

of the Gitmo set-up and were responsible for his interogation. Kyra Phillips said there is nothing to indicate he was mistreated...bla..bla...bla. Also, no one at CNN is mentioning the fact that this young man was under his father's control (a vitally pertinent fact) and taken to Afghanistan to fight Americans at the age of approx. 13 years old. He was captured by the Americans at age 15 and is therefore catagorized as a child soldier. He is accused of lobbing a grenade that killed an American soldier.....there is some confusion whether it was him or another person who did this....The point is, he was a child under his father's control, when all this took place. Our current Prime Minister, Stephen Harper, a George Bush ass-kisser, refuses to demand his repatriation to Canada. The leaders of Great Britain, Australia France and others DID demand their citizens' repatriation. IT'S DISGUSTING!

[symbolman]

27. I would like people to consider NOT using the term "Detainee" anymore

this is a "legal" term being used Against US.. They put words in our mouths and we lap them up, they know it becomes a part of the Public Lexicon..

These people have Have Been ARRESTED, Not Detained. Stopping someone from the control of their constitutional Right to Egress, imprisoning them, a Rent-A-Cop stopping you in a Mall to ask for your help as a witness to potential shoplifting is "Detaining" someone, or a Suspect.. Jailing someone with no express right to LEAVE, is one of two things - Kidnapping or ARREST..

Read news while replacing the word "detained" (puppies & butterflies :) ), with "Arrested", and feel the visceral reaction to those words...

It's Social Engineering, Psyops, designed to warp the Social Contract we all abide by as Human Beings.

Many times they don't have the Right to Arrest you, so this is the Big Fudge, don't let them get away with it.. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a Duck, then it's a Duck.. I wish to hell someone would challenge the Terminology in a court of Law. ACLU, anybody..

Thanks for listening, it's these little things that they use to screw US, tho the thing that works best for anyone in power is to use the thing you LOVE Against You..

:)

[Ilsa]

38. Will "prisoner" work? That doesn't let them off the hook, IMO. nt

[jberryhill]

55. "Captive" /nt

[Wcross]

28. Maybe you all could give him a medal for bravely killing an Army medic?

Such a good Canadian kid. He went all the way to Afghanistan to kill an Army medic.

[High Plains]

40. It's guys like you who make people want to travel half-way around

the world just to kill Americans soldiers. Keep up the good work.

[Zhade]

43. Accused, never proved. Don't let the facts get in the way of your bloodlust, though.

NT!

[sudopod]

45. You do realize, don't you, that they aren't even sure he threw the grenade?

[Zhade]

48. He doesn't care about that fact, he's too eager to pull the trigger himself.

NT!

[yardwork]

51. How do you know he did this? Because the U.S. government says so?

The same U.S. government that lies about everything else?

[Arrowhead2k1]

54. What the hell is wrong with you? You sound like a goddamn rethug. Are you that dense?

All we expect is fair treatment and due process to those ACCUSED. That's what's supposed to seperate our justice system from those of the third world.

For all we know, he didn't kill anybody. You don't fucking know, there hasn't been a conviction yet. There's not even any clear evidence to support it. Why do you think they would be interrogating/torturing him? They need some kind of confession!

[Maat]

59. That's not point.

If he is a prisoner (precluded from leaving, in custody), then I expect everyone in the military to OBEY THE LAW, and CONTROL THEIR EMOTIONS (i.e. DO THEIR JOB), no matter what the prisoner did.

Retribution and vengeance are not legal.

If necessary, the personnel involved can work out their anger in a support group; but, when they are on duty, I expect them to be professional and abide by the law.

Obviously, no one educated the ignorant involved here, as they don't seem to understand the emotional development of a kid that age, nor do they seem to understand how easily it is to manipulate someone that age.

There is no excuse for abusing a minor - none.

[glitch]

62. Prove it.

Then get back to us. Until it's been proven in a court of law that he killed an Army medic all of this, your opinion and any discussion over it, is a waste of our time.

[Downtown Hound]

67. And Americans went all the way around the world to kill Iraqi

civilians. Many of them even volunteered and willingly went, so you can't use the "they were under orders" defense. By your logic, it would be perfectly acceptable to torture them and convict them of murder, yes?

[Dukkha]

75. so?

it's war. the medic was a casualty. considering the atrocities the Americans are doing over there, I'd hardly consider that some major war crime and not something I'll lose sleep over. His treatment however is yet another of a long history of human right abuse our gang of thugs keep committing.

[NYC Liberal]

79. What jury has convicted him of killing a soldier? nt

[Tindalos]

29. This kid has been imprisoned and tortured for 5 years now.

If he wasn't screwed up before, he must be by now. Nobody deserves to be treated the way he has. Especially not a kid.

[tabasco]

36. But when Fox News propagandists die, we have to respect them.

After all, they're just political opponents.

:sarcasm:

[spanone]

52. faux news is a national disgrace...they shame america

[Arrowhead2k1]

53. Fuck those fucking people,

:mad:
like are they American? They're hurting this country and everything it 'stood' for. It's like we're going backwards since these fucking neocons took over.

As you can probably tell, I've seriously had enough of these people. Nov. 4th can't come soon enough...

[tblue37]

56. So they seem to be saying that

if one of our soldiers is captured after performing a hostile military act in the field, they believe that the US soldier should be tortured, too.---??

The whole point of the Geneva Conventions is to prevent toture and other mistreatment of POWs. The young man is a POW--and has been for 5 years, since he was 15 years old.

[Zhade]

57. That's what idiots who support torturing the accused before trial don't get.

NT!

[crimsonblue]

60. let's think about this....

let's say an American kills an active duty service member in a bar somewhere in the Midwest.... Would we torture this person?

[kwolf68]

74. Nothing to see here..

Just thump a bible, wave a flag and sing "god bless america" as loud as you can.

[Hippo_Tron]

77. I know this isn't GD:P but a friendly reminder that a vote for McCain is a vote for more torture

Obama has stated unequivocally that we don't torture and we don't outsource torture. McCain capitulated to the white house when push came to shove.