So - if Wachovia goes belly up I don't have to pay off the Credit card right?

[SmileyRose]

:evilgrin: :silly:

[givemebackmycountry]

1. I'm not sure it works that way...

Shit, they'll probably send someone out to your residence to "collect".

[SmileyRose]

3. ain't it odd?

when the bank goes bust whatever THEY owe ME the taxpayers pay me on their behalf - so basically, as a taxpayer, I let them off the hook. but whatever I owe THEM, suddenly that becomes something I still have to pay myself.

Some big shots walk away with gazillions and they still get to stick it to me going and coming.

[margotb822]

8. Think of it like paying twice

Once for the bill and once with your taxes. Nice system, huh?

[hfojvt]

18. except that, on a Federal level, rich people pay most of the taxes

the only exception being FICA taxes. State and local taxes are another story altogether. Even there, rich people probably pay most of them, just not as a percentage of their income.

[fasttense]

21. Where do you get your facts? The rich DO NOT pay most of the taxes.

In fact there has been a movement a foot for the last 30 years to do away with taxes on the uber wealthy as Thom Hartmann puts it, "Nobles Need Not Pay Taxes." The uber wealthy think they are above such things. Remember Leona Helmsley "We don't pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes." remark? Well that is exactly what has happened since Raygun started destroying the middle class.

The rich have accountants that carefully coach them on how to hide their money from the IRS. Most uber wealthy hide their money in such places as off shore accounts or have huge deductions. In addition, dividends are taxed at 15% while income is taxed at 20% or higher. So if you do nothing for your money, you pay less taxes.

Some history:

"Reagan promptly cut income taxes on the very rich from 70% down to 27%. Corporate tax rates were also cut so severely that they went from representing over 33% of total federal tax receipts in 1951 to less than 9% in 1983 (they’re still in that neighborhood, the lowest in the industrialized world).

Regan to cover his tax cuts doubled the tax paid only by people earning less than $40,000/year (FICA), and then began borrowing from the huge surplus this new tax was accumulating in the Social Security Trust Fund. Even with that, Reagan had to borrow more money in his 8 years than the sum total of all presidents from George Washington to Jimmy Carter combined. Reagan’s tax cut greatly diminished expenditures on infrastructure (bridges, roads, hospital, colleges, etc.)"

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0201-23.htm

[ProdigalJunkMail]

25. sorry but you are wrong on that

and where we talk about percentage of their actual income you are correct, but in raw dollars and percentage of overall taxes paid, the wealthiest 1% DO pay almost 40% of the overall federal taxes in this country...and the top 10% pay over 70%...

sP

[MetaTrope]

33. Which makes sense in terms of actual income

[hfojvt]

42. from the IRS

in 2005, those with incomes over $10,000,000 were .01% of taxpayers and paid 8.4% of the total tax. Those with incomes over $500,000 were 2.65% of filers and paid 51.5% of the income tax.

What rightwingers usually don't mention is that the same 2.65% got 29.3% of the income. Second, because of huge tax cuts thrown their way, they pay an increasing share of a smaller total tax bill. In 1996, those with incomes over $1,000,000 were .1% of filers and paid 14.7% of the total tax. Those with incomes over $500,000 were 1.3% of filers and they paid 34.5% of the tax. The tax rate was 25.3% for those over $500,000 and 30.9% for those over $1,000,000. In 2005, the tax rate was 20.2% for those with incomes over $500,000 and less than 24% for those with incomes over $1,000,000.

I have written a fair amount about how the rich benefit from Republican tax cuts and tax cut plans (see signature and links) but they still pay most of the income taxes because they get most of the income.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/81

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/55

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/62

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/67

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/69

[yardwork]

35. Ha ha ha!

ROTFL!!! That was funny.

:rofl:

[enki23]

37. and therefore, those with less money will pay a disproportionate share of the bailout money

thereby constituting a transfer payment from those who are less wealthy to those who are more wealthy, who receive the most direct, and similarly disproportionate benefit from the bailout itself.

good stuff, though. that kind of bullshit has been proven to work on a scary large proportion of the huddled masses.

[dsc]

41. actually that isn't true

Income taxes do work that way, but virtually no other taxes do.

[hfojvt]

44. I never claimed otherwise

and it is FEDERAL income taxes which are still kinda progressive, more so than most state income taxes. But the Federal income tax is something like 70% of all Federal revenue, if you take away FICA which is mostly a wash (80% or so of FICA goes to pay current benefits). Of course, the 70 and 80 are educated guesses because I am too lazy to look the actual numbers up for this discussion.

[yardwork]

34. You just figured out what it means to be a citizen of the United States.

Welcome. Now you'll never be able to forget.

[rpannier]

2. If you're a multi-millionaire...No

Otherwise the change Congress made to the banruptcy laws probably means you have to pay them double.

[Union Thug]

4. If you are a corporation, sure thing!

But otherwise, you'll be greeted with a big f*ck you from the United States of America, and a lecture on responsible financial behavior.

[spag68]

5. I needed a good laugh tonight, thank you

[Initech]

6. Oh shit! My car loan is with Wachovia!

:yoiks:

[spag68]

7. By the way

Their ceo and other officers still get paid big salary's while they are in bankruptcy.

[aquart]

15. Now that I would like to see changed.

Like, for instance, they get minimum wage during the liquidation of a company they've destroyed.

[The Straight Story]

9. all your congress person and ask them to fund a bail out for you

Would be cheaper than the ones they do for those large companies ;)

[cags]

10. I wish, just think of all the extra money I could stimulate the economy with if my mortgage was gone

[dsotm-wywh]

11. Why are you paying on your credit card anyway?

You can't be held legally accountable for your balance so run the debt up, change your phone number, and kiss goodbye to your credit score. If you listen to Dave Ramsey you know that you don't really need a credit score anyway. With that CC balance you can start paying cash for everything.

[physioex]

20. Huh....

Wish it were that simple. And I don't have carry a balance or have any debt. However to get by having a good score is important. I rented from invidual and company managed landlords and they always did a credit check. Also buying a car or house would be nearly impossible.

BTW Dave Ramsey is a con man he uses his show to pedel his cheap seminars and books.

[dsotm-wywh]

28. How is using a radio show to sell product being a con man?

It's called business.

What's the con? Giving you free advice to save money by getting out of debt and not paying interest?

The goal is to get out of debt and pay cash for everything rather than wasting thousands of dollars a year on interest. I can't possibly believe you think that's a bad idea.

[Lars39]

30. Glad I'm not the only one who thinks he's a scam artist.

[dsotm-wywh]

32. You also aren't the only one

who can't explain WHY you think he's a scam artist.

Free advice to help people get out of debt. YIKES!

[Dr.Phool]

38. He's feeding you bullshit, and setting you up for jail.

I think there's a forum called freerepublic.com where you'll fit right in.

[tammywammy]

39. How so?

[dsotm-wywh]

45. He doesn't have an answer.

His last post sounded as jarbled as GWB yesterday in his goofy speech.

[tammywammy]

46. I don't understand what's supposedly wrong with people paying off debt

And living credit card free. That's what he talks about. :shrug:

[Lars39]

47. He has used his sob story of going bankrupt *twice* to promote

his business, which is to tell you how he "got out of debt". I have much more respect for Mary Hunt, who was over 100k in the hole and worked her way out of it without declaring bankruptcy and before she started promoting herself.

[tammywammy]

40. It's not impossible to buy a car with no credit score

Save and pay cash.

[Dogmudgeon]

12. You'll always have to pay

The company will sell off its assets.

Debts are assets.

Another company will buy the account and gain the "right" to go after you.

Your ass is PWND.

--p!

[Imagevision]

13. They'll probably sell accounts with owed balances to a third party for collection

[ORDagnabbit]

14. two vids to watch then you tell me...

www.moneyasdebt.net/

www.freedomtofascism.com


theres few on this site who have been warning everyone for the last 4 years that a financial storm was coming and that our current fiat money system is based around a charade...but we always get shouted down as loons and sometimes have our threads locked.

probably too late for most but maybe a few more people will wise up and save themselves.

[behave]

16. there's been so many card issuances collectors can't beat the statutes of limitations

in court. you didn't hear it from me

[TlalocW]

17. I'm taking the same hopeful outview with Countrywide for my mortgage

And from what I can tell, they're desperate for my monthly payment. I haven't paid my mortgage this month yet (waiting on some checks), and they've called me several times already.

TlalocW

[SmileyRose]

19. My mortgage is countrywide too.

do I know how to pick um or what?

Countrywide has never called me in the 13 years since I refinanced to them. Of course only get paid the 1st of every month so anytime after the 1st of July I may as well send in August 1's payment. They get mine pretty early quite a lot. In fact, I already have the statement for Sept 1.

Though I'm sure they hate my guts. First I refused to refinance for more than the principle at the old lender. Then I demanded no PMI or escrow. and to top it off I demanded no points or closing costs for the same 4.89% rate they quoted. I left the originator speechless. But with a FICO well over 800 I think they would have bought me the moon. :)

[eilen]

23. Their preferred customer is overextended on their credit

with a FICO of 600 which allows them to hike their bait interest rate up a few points. Watch "Maxed Out", very revealing movie/doc about the credit card industry.

[eilen]

22. They may just demand "Payment in full" unless another

bank buys your debt. Check your borrower's agreement, bring a magnifying glass.

[SmileyRose]

24. my CC agreement doesn't say I can't pay in chickens.

I wonder if the honchos at Wachovia prefer drumsticks or wings?

[tekisui]

26. Is Wachovia one of the banks in imminent trouble?

[SmileyRose]

29. They are probably too big to bite it.

[Virginia Dare]

43. Front page of the WAPO today..

I hope they don't because this is my main banking institution, mainly because of it's convenience..doesn't sound real good at any rate.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/15/AR2008071503065.html?hpid=topnews

[ProdigalJunkMail]

27. this is what chaps my ass...

in several ways...but, if a bank goes under while HOLDING YOUR MONEY (not owing you out of debt but holding a deposit account) you get screwed and the gov't (the people) have to bail you out to the tune of no more than $100,000. if a bank goes under while YOU OWE THEM, that debt just gets transferred to the next owner of said debt...talk about getting screwed!!!

sP

[rucky]

31. Let us know how that works out.

:evilgrin:

[brooklynite]

36. Sorry, but thanks for playing...

Your credit card debt, which is on their books as an Accounts Receivable, becomes an asset to be used to pay off their debt. Some other creditor get dibs, or they make an effort to collect all debts to create an assets pool for payouts.