Stalking the Shadows: If the worst happens, who will our leaders be?

[shadowknows69]

"I don't mind stealing bread from the mouth of decadence"
-"Hunger Strike", Temple of the Dog

I doubt I'm alone in this country in that I occasionally entertain nightmare scenarios for our nation from the remaining days of this evil cabal that has hijacked our government. It is hard to imagine that they will abandon the astounding power grab they have accomplished under the watch of a sleeping, frightened populace and a complicit Congress and Supreme Court. I find even my hope for a President Obama waning at times because I wouldn't put it past these Ivy League Machiavellians who hold power to have completely infiltrated our party and Barack will be just another puppet. That is my first nightmare scenario.

The saber rattling with Iran continues to evoke memories of the lie filled beginnings of the Iraq invasion and there is ample evidence to suggest that Bush wants an attack on "noo-ku-lar" Iran as part of his twisted and bloody legacy. There was no lack of trying to show our leaders our opposition to the heinous action we inflicted on the Iraqi people and our voice has not subsided although we have still been given no mainstream coverage. We had hope in 2006 that the Democrats time had come again and we would finally have some foil to the horrible Bush killing machine, but we quickly found that strength lacking in our leaders.

It seems even when we "vote da' bums out" they're replaced with pre-corrupted carbon copies of the previous bum, or the incumbent bum is so inexplicably entrenched that no one with any chance even attempts to run against them. So when our government and our elected officials have failed us, where will our new leaders come from? If our government has made itself an enemy of the people who put it in power what alternative is there? Many brave voices are speaking but the right people aren't hearing or intentionally aren't listening. Has it come to the point where we must force ourselves to be heard? By any means necessary? Will we have to become the monster to destroy the monster? If so where will we find the leaders with the strength and courage to do what's "necessary"?

Nightmare scenario number two is that Bush/Cheney get their greatest wish and decide to attack Iran or by proxy destroy them through Israel and unleash the profitable Dogs of War upon a larger part of the world. What becomes of us as a country at that point? We have already allowed our leaders to make our nation a rogue state in the eyes of the world and probably genocidal maniacs in the eyes of many Iraqis and Afghanis. Whether Bush/Cheney take the extreme step of declaring marital law after the inevitable attacks on our soil and even possibly suspend elections or they simply just leave our next President an untenable world war to manage and hopefully stop before we're past the point of stupidity, we will need real and possibly radical actions to save ourselves from ourselves.

Where will our leaders come from at that point? It may well be at some point in this nation's future, if it is to have one, that "We the People" may have to wrest our country back from unworthy hands, perhaps with means that will be deemed seditious. Where will those leaders come from that can inspire the bravery of our founding fathers and mothers?

Who will be our Thomas Paine, our Ben Franklin, our Patrick Henry? Then again who will be our Crispus Attucks or Nathan Hale if it comes to that. Will our celebrities be our Paul Revere this time? Will someone in the mainstream media take matters into their hands to declare on live television that we are living under a very cleverly disguised dictatorship that they have enabled and the people need to act? Is there even the will?

I'm too old, broke and broken to ever have that dark dream of being able to save our country should the will of the people be utterly ignored and usurped. It's a time we almost find ourselves at and we are at a crossroads of salvation or ruin in my opinion. I wait with a hopeful but realistic heart that new leaders with a new vision for this country will arise. I hope it will be as soon as this next election and we can prevent the warmongers from causing any more death and our nation can remain one at peace with the world and itself.

If not I will await our new leaders with a heavy heart, whether they step out of the shadows or have to flee into them to do the dirty work of democracy, I will dedicate whatever strength in me to those who would champion liberty's cause.
S

[mia]

1. You're not alone.

Thanks for your post.

[desktop]

2. Well I don't think Obama is a secret neocon, but...

My fears are starting to come forward that in the end, McCain will win this election. The polls are slowly starting to disintegrate for Obama, maybe after a huge media campaign, Obama can take a strong lead again. But I don't trust our election process, I don't trust the non racism of white people, and I don't trust the soundness of mind of the majority of the electorate. FOXnews, CNN, and the rest control the minds of to many Americans.

[shadowknows69]

3. If McCain does win I think we can be sure that the process is completely corrupt

Which I pretty much became sure of in 2004 anyway but this would definitely confirm it. Even with CNN and FoX's brainwashing machine there can't be enough people to elect Popeye. I won't believe that.

[peacetalksforall]

5. Can we really trust the polls? If they can keep them even - it will be

easier for them to steal. The history of stealing our votes is nearly a 50=50 split. Polls and corporate networks on the one side and Rovian and RNC tacktect on the other.

The polls are their tool to steal.

[Alter Ego]

11. What polls have you been watching?

He's been consistently ahead in a good number of crucial states and nipping at McCain's heels in places like NC and IN, and even though Gallup and Rasmussen aren't showing great numbers a few polls have come out recently that give him a 7-8 point lead.

[desktop]

12. ABC/Washington Post poll

Has Obama up by only 3 in people likely to vote. As many people have said, polls don't mean a whole lot now, and you get a large amount of variation. But the trend is the concern. One disturbing trend that was found, was that young people who have been a big boost for Obama, and who may or may not vote depending on their party plans for the evening, have dropped by 20 points as to their likeliness to vote. As we all know Democrats have led the polls the last 2 times out but still lost. You be the judge as to why, but if you think something is fishy, I won't argue with you.

[rucognizant]

15. ANd eventhe liberal Mag. New Yorker...

kicked in with the erroneouds "satire" delpicing the Obamas as the low info voters worst nightmare.

[elehhhhna]

16. Just remember this: poll fraud must precede vote fraud.

Not so much in 2000...or 2004, but necessary this time, for sure.

[glitch]

23. I think yes in 2000 and 2004 too. In fact, I think they were honing the skill.

and messed it up quite a bit, often after the numbers had already been seen, but they did it all right. IMO.

And I think they're doing it now. They cannot appear to be viable without doing it.

[defendandprotect]

26. The election steals have been going on way before that --- since coup on JFK . . .

http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm

Also note that with the death of Bill Buckley some documents came tumbling out

indicating that the CIA was secretly funding Republican candidates ---

they were passing the money thru Howard Hughes via the front companies he had

set up for them ---

Two of those mentioned were Sen. Strom Thurmond and Rep. Gerald Ford.


What the CIA was doing all over the world immediately post WWII . . . i.e., stealing

elections -- Operation Gladio -- keeping liberals/progressives out of office from

Japan to Italy -- running fake flag operations -- assassinating liberal political

leaders everywhere -- THEY HAVE ALSO BEEN DOING IN AMERICA!!!!


Malcolm X was one of the first to try to make this clear to Americans . . .

[glitch]

28. Very true. It's becoming more noticeable as citizens become more sophisticated

not just about computers but also about the rightwing's tactics. I didn't know about the Bill Buckley documents, thanks for the tip!

ps and you don't even want to know what I think about the whole Truman replacing Wallace episode, and FDR's fate.

[timtom]

33. "you don't even want to know what I think about the whole Truman replacing Wallace episode"

Actually, I do.
Thanks for the tip. I'm about to do some independent investigation.

[glitch]

34. I look forward to hearing your opinion.

Right now I am way out there on it, alone.

[defendandprotect]

36. In my reading . . .

when I woke up, I hit the library . . .

and while trying to read current stuff -- I also tried to go back as much as I could.

And, Henry Wallace was one of the bright lights back there.

I hope to read more on him -- Upton Sinclair --- Huey Long ---

HST . . . my immediate family wasn't political --- but my Dad's family were better informed

and they fumed at HST . . .

I don't much like the history of him that I read ---

how different the "media/PR" on him --- ah, illusions!


PS: I also want to add this here because I don't know if I'm going to get to broaden

this issue . .. but these are the people who strike the heart and spirit --

these are the human beings who affirm life and make us feel connected --

as we should because we are.

[glitch]

37. Agreed about the affirming humans like Wallace, God love them.

I woke up to what Truman was about listening to a Japanese-American professor lecture on UWTV. Now I can't remember his name but he was brilliant, I think he wrote a book on either Truman or the era, but he had delved into Truman's history and his private correspondence, found out what a horrible racist he was.
I think the people who really wanted to make sure the atom bombs were dropped wanted to make absolutely sure they had someone truly capable of "othering" the civilians in Japan. For that sort of thing racists appear to be the most reliable.
But even Truman balked after two.

[defendandprotect]

38. "Racism" comes in quite handy for war . . .

It takes a lot of courage to oppose those in power ---

[electropop]

22. Not a secret one, no.

[natrat]

4. they may not show up,maybe no FDR this time around,sorry

[defendandprotect]

27. the policy seems quite clearly to keep any "leaders" from arising . . .

it's difficult to deal with someone like MLK, Jr. --- like JFK ---

they destroy them now before they can develop.


Notice, they never permitted another "black" leader to arise ---

And the women's movement has been "leaderless" since they ousted Betty Friedan -- 1960's . .

[shadowknows69]

6. Major edit please re read

I just realized I ended a sentence on a cliff lol. Finished the thought now.


Whether Bush/Cheney take the extreme step of declaring marital law after the inevitable attacks on our soil and even possibly suspend elections or they simply just leave our next President an untenable world war to manage and hopefully stop before we're past the point of stupidity we will need real and possibly radical actions to save ourselves from ourselves.

[a la izquierda]

7. btw, it's crispus attucks.

:)

[shadowknows69]

8. ah fuck, i knew that

thanks. I have the gorram wiki page right in front of me too lol. i plead vicodan.

[a la izquierda]

9. lol

i wish i could have some vicodin. i have a wicked sinus infection wreaking havoc on my teeth.
damn oklahoma summers and their blooming flowers and trees, with the pollen and the itching and the sneezing it hurts me...

[SpiralHawk]

10. "You rang?" - Smiling Personage

[nancyr]

13. I share your feelings.

I fear we're all just plain screwed.

[irislake]

18. You ARE screwed

get out of the country if you can. Or should I say "while"?

[windoe]

14. If this be the case

then we better work on a plan B folks. The internet would be under assault next and I suspect not only changes in accessibility and surveillance, but infiltrated beyond recognition, it has started already as we have observed. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[rucognizant]

17. The time has come

to exchange address and phone numbers on the ground if you are brave & sincere enough to give up the aynonimity of the internet.
I bet a mint there would be a chain of people across the country, to spread messages the old fashioned way.
Any body got a horse? Maybe those who are able should be salvaging those the govt. wants to put to death. Maybe city dwellers without the space might kick in and pay for the feed? Don't forget the first post was delivered by horse back from sea to shining sea.

[SidneyCarton]

19. God help us all, should this be so.

Another revolutionary war (technically the third in our nation's history) would be truly awful in scope, even if it is necessary. I mention it as a third revolution, because in some ways the Civil War was a failed revolution for the South. A new revolution would be far worse than either of its predecessors.

The First revolution was to drive out a foreign force, which had to move its troops and supplies across an ocean in order to attack. Ground for the occupier was easy to take, but hard to hold. With the expansion of the war into Europe, it became unpopular with the British and they withdrew While the death toll was not inconsiderable, it did not exceed 20,000 American dead.

The second revolutionary war was far more brutal. The regional secession of the south, provided the Confederacy with at least some industrial base on the continent, coupled with a large group of men with military experience. In the end the conflict ground into a "war of material" in which Lincoln and Grant were finally able to wear down Davis and Lee with a superiority of arms and numbers. The vicious cost of this war, in which all combatants were Americans, exceeded 700,000 men. Despite two World Wars, this second failed revolutionary war is still the bloodiest conflict we have ever fought.

A new revolution would not fight against foreign oppression, nor would it be solely regional in nature, though the South would likely once again form a major theater of conflict. This third possible revolution would be a war of ideologies, a battle between those who want an authoritarian Christo-Fascist racial state, and those who do not. Due to the large degree of unity on the side of the right, in contrast to the relative division of the forces of the middle and left, things look grim for the survival of liberty, particularly in the opening phases of such a conflict.

Wars of ideologies tend to swiftly turn into wars of annihilation. (consider the Eastern Front in the Second World War) as those of a differing viewpoint are often demonized into seeming sub-human status, killing tends to be more savage, and the slaughter of non-combatants of the enemy "other" become common, in the hopes of "cleansing" the land. Considering the current controversies regarding immigration coupled with our nation's long standing racial issues, it is likely that race would also become a violent catalyst between belligerents, with various diverse areas facing possible attempts at ethnic cleansing. Under such circumstances, the death toll from such a revolutionary conflict would possibly enter into the millions, and likely drag the rest of the continent in with us.

If you think this is morbid, you're right, for this reason I rarely ever attempt to project the nightmare scenario.

[crimsonblue]

32. It's simple...

we just need a two front war... maybe we could get the upper midwest to attack from the west, and NE to attack from the east. Sherman march to glory our way to St Louis... and then once they think they got us... BAM.. we bring in the California Cavalry with the help of our immigrant buddies.

[Demeter]

35. Neither the Northeast Nor the Midwest Go for Armed Insurrection

which is a pity, as they are vulnerable to the West and South, which do.

The NE and MidWest are into the war of ideas and results, both of which they have one for centuries, but who bothers to notice?

[justinaforjustice]

20. Sadly, I Share Your Views.

The Bush-Cheney administration has amassed so much power, much of it illegally seized from Congress and the Courts, that I find it difficult to believe that they will meekly turn it over to a Democratic President, assuming Obama is elected.

They have committed so many illegalities -- an illegal invasion of Iraq, kidnapping, torturing, holding thousands of presumptively innocent people without charges, bail or counsel, building internment camps, illegally surveilling all our e-mails, telephone calls and electronic activity, ignoring Congressional powers and issuing signing statements contravening their legislation, refusing to testify before Congressional committees, putting over a million people on a "no fly list" while targeting over 8 million people as potential suspects for investigation or internment, the list goes on and on.

So what can we do to re-establish our Constitution and our democracy? The first step, I think, is to make every American citizen aware of the terms of our Constitution and how it has been violated by Bush-Cheney. I don't think the majority of people even know what is in our Constitution, they don't teach Civics in schools any more. We need a simply written summary of the main points to hand out in community groups, union meetings, beauty parlors, bars and the like. We need to send copies to our soldiers and national guard. Their help will be be critical.

We also need to write letters to every podunk community newspaper in the nation, alerting their readers to the crimes that have been committed in violation of our Constitution. This can easily be done through www.Congress.org at their media link. You can write short letters and save them, then send them to all of the newspapers and tv and radio stations in your area. Letters -- even full page ads-- in the New York Times are simply a waste of time and/or money that could be better spent putting ads in local town and city papers, the papers the majority of citizens actually read.

And, we need to encourage our computer geeks to figure out ways now to protect our internet sites and activity. They have been infinitely creative in the past, and I am sure that they can find ways to hack around government interceptions. T

[The Straight Story]

21. Our leaders will be the people who bought guns and ammo

the followers will be the ones who said they shouldn't have had the right to....

:rofl: :popcorn:

[behave]

24. who will be our washington our grant our lee who will give body and soul

[defendandprotect]

25. Well understand your fears . . .

And, for me, Pelosi confirmed them today when she announced there would be NO vote
on the impeachment investigation. Was she letting me know . . . or was she once
again reassuring the White House?

Obviously, Bush/Cheney still have nothing to fear; their safety assured.

I also agree with you on the corporate/neo-con infiltration of the Democratic Party --
though you probably notice that when we discuss the DLC here and this co-option many
here do not join in. Things become very quiet.
We have Congress full of Democrats who have been taking money from special interests
for decades. Gore, himself, had lifelong career support from one of the oil companies.


It's been difficult to wake America up - we've been trained to have trust and faith in
our country. To come to understand it is almost all based on lies and deception is hard
to get used to.

As for "leaders" . . . it is impossible not to notice that we don't have leaders arising.
As the Europeans have been saying since the coup on JFK and our government ---
"Progressives have an odd way of getting assassinated or otherwise being elimianted in America."
Rather than have to deal with knocking out strong leaders as we had in the 1960's, they simply
ensure that they do not rise to any meaningful level. Not that the political violence we saw
in the 1960's has stopped; it has not.

I hope along with you that this election may begin to move us into a more peaceful era.
Certainly this planet needs no more violence.


What I am most anxious that others come to understand is that 2000 was simply a very noisy
election, but it wasn't the beginning of the steals. Evidently, they weren't taking any
changes after the attack on JFK and vote counting machines began to come in then --
think back, our media was reporting results from them.
http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm

Additionally, with the death of Bill Buckley some documents came tumbling out which suggest
that the CIA was also financing right-wing Republican campaigns thru the front companies
set up for them by Howard Hughes --
Two of those named were Sen. Strom Thurmond and Rep. Gerald Ford.

JFK showed us that the Cold War was mainly about fear. We had world leadership at the time
which helped him work for peace --- Khruschev and Pope John XXIII.
The Pentagon/Intelligence forces already betraying Eisenhower and his peace efforts
in order to keep weapons manufacturing thriving also betrayed JFK.

Yes, the Democratic party is co-opted and very seriously --
but we also have to understand the long-term steals that have been going on by one
manner or another.

They've been at this a long time --- and they're way ahead of us.

[roody]

29. We are the leaders.

[Ghost Dog]

30. IMO you need to fight above all "culture wars": TV-heads, MSM, Madison Ave., etc UNHIP;

Guerilla news, underground rebellion (like, you know, people really communicating with each other 'in the street'), seeing through the lies, etc. HIP.

Take back the commons... And beware of too much nationalism: Seek support in international popular culture (and be prepared to listen to what it has to say).

[crimsonblue]

31. Dr Strangelove will emerge from the shadows of the Cloud...

and bid us adieu as we all freaking die.

[onethatcares]

39. "we are at a crossroads" those words ring true

but, the vision is broken. It took but a generation to make politics unbearably boring, and the WI (wee) a thing that can't be done without. It took an attack to slap many people into believing the United States of America is an empire and deserves to kill and occupy anyplace that goes against it. The dream is over. I hate to say it, but, stripped as we are of support, it will be too easy to starve us all into submission.

Once they arrest all of us that post here, the party is gonna be way over.

Peace.