"We need an 'honest discussion about race.'"

[hiaasenrocks]

You can hear that sentence almost every day on the various talk shows, but what does it mean? Do people REALLY want an "honest" discussion about race? Really? What exactly would that entail? What would the goal be? If by "honest" people mean they want to hear everything, how long can we count on civility?

I think this is one of those comments that sound good, but means nothing.

[Ron Green]

1. I think an honest discussion about race would have to point to the larger issue, which is

the projection of one's own "shadow," or negative animus, onto another. As long as we live as mortals on a finite planet, I don't see how this will change, or the challenge to overcome it.

The progress made in race relations by liberal democracy in America are significant, but as we've seen from our own "Southern strategy" Republicans, Reagan Democrats and neo-Cons, the job of building and maintaining peace among our ethnic and religious groups is ongoing.

[hiaasenrocks]

7. But what is the discussion?

What would you say? What would you want to hear others say? Would that include giving voice to those of every race who harbor ill thoughts toward members of other races? You want an "honest discussion" with them...about what?

[Ron Green]

19. "How are you (member of one group) different from him (member of another group),"

would be one question. Taking that answer as a lead to clarifying questions, most of which would seek to discover what about someone's "race" engenders fear.

My opinion is that we are all bound in fear and love with each other, and to the extent we can understand how surface issues of race, clan, class, culture, or nation increase fear and inhibit love, we can have an "honest discussion."

Finding the truth is the key. If someone holds firmly to the "truth" that we are made differently in different colors, we don't have a truth with which to succeed. However, if enough people can agree on the "truth" that we are all equal under the sun (in the Cosmos, in the eyes of God, what have you), then there is something to work with. Both truths have currency, and as we see daily here on DU, talk about God as a unifying idea immediately brings out anti-religious bias, as well as the correct observation that concepts of God are some of the most powerful racist tools.

I hope we will continue to search for a "Unified Field Theory" of social behavior that can encompass a better understanding of our commonality. Until then, movies like "Crash" will nudge us along our way.

[Captain Hilts]

2. We also need an honest discussion about sexism. nt

[Karenina]

5. THAT is the starting point!

The two are more intertwined than the global banking system! :rofl:

[Captain Hilts]

12. ??

[Karenina]

14. We got a penis probl- erraa I mean...

Je ne sais... erraaa... HOW 'BOUT THAT UNDERWATER HOTEL IN DUBAI, EH? Seen a pic? :rofl::evilgrin::rofl:

[hiaasenrocks]

6. LOL

[dsotm-wywh]

3. The honest truth about different races..

Is that every race of people thinks all the other races of people hate them. It's the nature of people to be self centered and feel like they are on the bottom of the heap and everybody just needs to lighten up and get over themselves already.

[hiaasenrocks]

8. OK, that makes some sense.

The only problem is, nobody wants to be told to lighten up. The moment someone of any race says that to someone of any other race, all we'd have is accusations of ignorance.

I really don't think there's an "honest" discussion to be had, at least in any constructive way.

[Wiley50]

4. Try nascar.com

Sorry. couldn't help myself.

Seriously, I agree.
I'm just not in the mood right now myself.

[EFerrari]

9. The phrase is one of those placemarkers for "we had to say that to stop discussion". n/t

[Romulox]

10. Race in America is often a proxy for CLASS

(since Americans have virtually no vocabulary to discuss issues of class.)

Some (by no means all) of those who seek to make race the central area of analysis are merely trying to stymie any discussion of class. This was the overt strategy of landowners in the post-war South, and the covert strategy of most capitalist apologists today.

[Duncan Grant]

17. My friends and I often discuss "power" and how it's used.

I agree that Americans have virtually no vocabulary to discuss class but I think "power" is often a good entry point. Thanks for mentioning class - it really is the fulcrum in these discussions about sexism, civil rights, etc. :thumbsup:

[Captain Hilts]

21. YES!!!!

[H2O Man]

11. Interesting.

I'm not sure if it is possible to have an honest discussion about race, if there are going to be many participants. There are too many misconceptions -- including the very idea that there are "races." But it can be beneficial for people to have open and frank discussions on the issues relating to race.

[TahitiNut]

15. Yup. It would require that we step outside the frames of human objectification ...

... the commoditization of human beings and human labor. I'm not at all sanguine that enough people even comprehend the depth and extent to which we're entrapped in those frames. We continue to speak in terms of 'sexism' and 'racism' and 'antisemitism' and 'homophobia' as though they're separate and distinct issues when, in fact, they're merely ways of tossing individual human beings into bins and then having a bidding war.

I've begun to question whether "single issue" (victims of identity politics) folks are even capable of adopting a truly LIBERAL perspective, no matter which 'side' they take, as long as they're intellectually trapped in the single paramount frame of their own preference. After all, can the "politics of self-interest" ever really yield a liberal comprehension? (It'd probably take more than this post to expand on that sufficiently.)

:shrug:

[H2O Man]

20. There might be more

benefit in having discussions about different "cultures." We have many different groups, each with their own history, and many with an overlapping current experience. And as you point out, there are groups that have identities based on numerous factors.

When things are relatively "good," a society is more apt to be able to have open discussions, and many people are willing to at least consider other groups' experiences and interpretation of conditions in their lives. But in times of stress, which include anything from warfare to economic depression, fewer individuals are willing to do so. (By no coincidence, this is simply the larger scale model of functional/dysfunctional families.)

When groups are split apart, then the larger society eventually falls apart. There is the competition for resourse, which we could use the McCain campaign to illustrate; and there is a potential for moving in the other direction, which is what Senator Obama is attempting to get Americans to consider as an alternative.

[SoCalDem]

13. Means that white people want to talk about how "evolved" they are and how

"great" things are for black people...:eyes:

[Karenina]

16. Amurikkka? "HONEST" discussion???

Y"all"s Uebermenschen just done crashed the economy, everybody LYIN' through the teeth to stick YOU with the bill and you be talking about some goofy construct that enables "divide and conquer?" :rofl: PLEASE tell me when Amurikkka, SPECIALLY under *co has had an "HONEST" discussion about ANYTHING!!! :rofl:

[Overseas]

18. My very cynical take on that is-- it is prep to cover up election fraud

My cynical side says it is the corporate media setting up their new "Guns, God & Gays" excuse to cover things up when the November exit polls saying Obama leads by 12 points suddenly flip during the night to show John Sidney McCain III squeak in with a 2-point lead.

Well, poor Senator Obama and the Democrats fought a good fight but gosh, those results just show that we need to have a serious conversation about race in this country. We still have a long way to go.

((Yes we do have a long way to go, but I don't trust the corporate media because they've been so much in favor of the Fake Maverick John Sidney McCain III.))

[ZombieHorde]

22. Dwarves get a +2 Con, -2 Cha, 60' Night Vision, some strong saves...

Halflings get a +2 Dex, -2 Str, low light vision, +1 to all saves, and the usual things that go with being small (such as +1 AC, +1 to hit, etc.)

Humans get a bonus feat and some bonus skill points

Gnomes get a +2 Con, -2 Str, their small, the ability to speak with burrowing animals and a few cantrips

No one cares about Elves or Half-Orcs

These may have changed a couple of months ago...