Down the Usury rabbit hole.

[undergroundpanther]

Usury goes deeper than rich people taking advantage of poor people by lending them money on terms that are sure to make them fail. ..
It is the theft of what sustains life,by thugs.Usury is extortion.and a racket that began long ago...of the strong exploiting the weak, a sort of planned social control. A deliberate social system of extortion that to most people not being subjected to harsh deprivation,for them, it is invisible,this engineered social darwinism.That enables anti- life, planet destructive,
socially toxic, civilizations such as ours,to occur.


We live together with countless other species of animals and plants. Together sharing a planet supplied with soil,rain,and sun. So plants grew from the soil,nourished by sun rain.The plants eventually bore fruits that contained seeds.This process was working fine long before people existed or invented gardens.

Plants grew and fed many animals for millions of years all for FREE.And the seeds left behind made sure the food supply never ran out.Yes there were droughts and floods, but for the most part creatures survived and some,died.Earth was a self ,contained,self perpetuating ,mutually beneficial,yet sometimes individuals died,but it was a system that supported but was not good to life all the time.

Than as time went on, plants still grew and food was FREE to any who would desire to eat it,birds, bears or tribal humans they all ate the fruits of trees and plants for FREE.
The seeds got spread around through the feces of all those who ate the fruits,and the plants flourished and there was food everywhere for FREE..Every breakfast,lunch and dinner was FREE.

Free..Until some asshole greedy piece of shit human made up a con game,made up social hierarchy, instituted the rule of bully over weaker(through widespread abuse, rape, trauma,and colonialism).This very selfish agenda is called getting control-over.

To Control,people, the dominator took away the food and water, hung a price tag on the plants,and claimed he owned it all himself,and he took possession of it by driving out others and keeping it for himself and his posse..So for outside people to eat the fruits of plants, they had to pay "the man" with the most weapons and willing loyal servants hellbent on hoarding what was once free, for everyone, for themselves.

And so with the invention of social hierarchies,resource theft and extortion human existence became a Pay-as-you-go situation.
By pay-as-you-go, I mean if you don't pay someone else for what grows in the dirt for free you don't get to live.This is a very brutal extortion racket , tolerated by humanity .

This is the real problem, psychopath bullies, controlling people with theft(usury),trauma,and extortion.

Some people think they can OWN the water, air or the land,and and this "owning" mythos gives them because people BELIEVE in it,a right to deprive others of a place to live,food and water.
What happens when the "owners" die? The truth comes out, they don't own their own bodies or possess their last breath.How can they own the land,the space beyond where they dwell?

So Inheritance was invented and 'legacy' so that generations of exploiters would ALWAYS have an advantage over the others..
And they still do today.

Still the Earth grows plants.But paying off the corporate extortionist to eat the fruits of plants,that shit applies only to humans.

The earth has animals here too. Prey animals are still FREE for cougars, lions and tigers,they get their food for free. Once prey was free for humans and the animals that could catch them. Today humans must PAY other humans or their corporate paper stand in's to eat prey animals.

No lion pride pays any human for the"privilege" of catching and eating food on land..Yet humans pay humans for the 'privilege of food to eat and land to lay their heads down.Why?

Because humans have been DOMESTICATED.

Humans have been dominated and have accepted the yoke of a self declared master and play by the rules the games these masters say they must play by. Games like carrot and stick..Job or be homeless. Accept the bribe,shut up or be shot. Humans are ever faithful and obedient to the dominators, and the unfair,destructive system of the extortionist.

The system of usury works by a lie called hierarchical social order.By domination,and threat and use of force(a loyal posse,army,well bribed mercinaries)to force 'compliance' of the domesticated, others until the submit to an unjust system that exists by making free things cost something to people who don't "own" it..

This evil system of extortion and domestication exists just so some people can get more from others than they ever give back to anyone So the biggest bullies could live comfortable,decadent lives.So some could have control and power with none of the responsibility.So some can get something for nothing(profit)at everyone else's expense.

We can agree water has been around a VERY long time. Water was once drinkable and everywhere, in springs that bubbled up from deep in the Earth, in lakes rivers and it was all FREE..But that is no longer true, for human made for profit industry has polluted the waters so that in some cases fish can't even live there.
Water existed and slaked many thirsts long before some asshole came along polluted it,bottled it, "filtered" it and hung a price tag on it,and sold it at a cost back to us,you know.
So now water that is drink-able has been stolen from us.

Water was once,FREE,to any who thirsted and saw a spring,they drank from it bird, cat, plant or human,it didn't matter.

Water Buffalo do not pay some water company for the privilege of drinking and bathing in a river.Nor do birds. But we humans PAY and PAY and PAY with tokens that represent life time not lived,toiling at a 'job' just to pay a rich person,just to have the privilege of drinking WATER?? and bathing...WTF??

Usury began I think long ago,it began right before"civilization" came to be.One bullying person believed he was superior to others and claimed he had a right to deprive the others (because they were inferior to him)of access to food, water,shelter,companionship, warmth, all those things on the Maslow's hierarchy of needs.The bully was a sociopath,and a very clever,clever enough to domesticate millions and make them believe they want to pay a rich man for the 'privlege' to exist..

The psychopaths who would live like kings,knew they had to create the illusion of power and specialness around themselves, to have 'authority over others,said psychopath had to take away from the others something the EARTH provides for ALL,and deprive them of sustenance to CONTROL them,to use them to make them do the psychopaths bidding on command.He had to domesticate humans.To teach them to fear power,symbols of power and threat.

He knew he had to get together with mean psychopathic posses of ambitious greedy thugs like himself,to be his fists and spying eyes to make him a "big man" .He had to let other thugs come into the gang, let them in on the deal,secure loyalty with bribes,and promises of power,sex and a life of ease ,Give the thugs a cut of the profits or special access to something the thug desired..These deals had to be made if said upstart despot wanted to be able to hijack and control land that had a spring that supplied water to many people a whole tribe,and animals,and "possess it" for himself to control who lived and who died.Like some god..

He needed a loyal posse happy in their servitude to him to his symbols and system, who were ready to kill for a higher status in the group,adept at playing this bullies game of power-over, to force or convince the ones who were NOT in the"elite" gang, to PAY the bullies, for access to water from a spring that bubbled up from the earth that once was there for FREE, open to all that thirsted..But because of the bully and his posse of thugs this watering hole has become territory that is occupied.

In the Savanna,Antelope, Gazelles, Zebra,Crocodiles,Birds,Hippos and Lions all drink and bathe from the same sources of water.There is a recognition in the animal kingdom that water is necessary for life.The Lions know if the Gazelle,Antelope,and Zebra don't get a chance to drink at the watering hole..The Lions won't get to eat,after all the prey perishes of thirst. No species occupies the water hole all to itself.

Humans caught up in games of power and control,domination and submission,have forgotten this democratic reciprocal relationship is what life on this planet requires for all to live. Usury is theft of life. Theft that is so accepted, seen as normal as "property rights" and the only way societies can function has blinded us to our past and our future ways.

A society can live without an authority figure or costly social hierarchy.A society can thrive in peace IF psychopaths, bullies and despots are contained, killed or NOT trusted or given power.

Usury/extortion,pay as you go existence is the ONLY way a TOP DOWN, master and slave hierarchical cultures can exist.Every dominator needs an OTHER to dominate.So some are trained and conditioned to accept being dominated and deprived,always asking permission and paying the master.A dominator that cannot dominate anyone is just an asshole.

A owner that is disbelieved when it comes to what he takes from the others ( that which he says he owns), is greedy despot,and if his pitch of lies is believed by the people,he will tyrannize to the point of being a toxin to humanities well being and destroy the natural state of democracy and the solidarity of kin and community that keeps false power in check..

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn3248-democracy-be...

Because of the systemic ABUSE bullies and their posse regularly do to humans through generation after generation,people have gotten used to their chains and roles.The mental bars in their minds rule out any alternatives to the system they are conditioned to think they wanted...We have been taken advantage of by the usurious bullies despots for a very long time.And it has taken a toll on our happiness,potential, wellbeing and health. We are now forced to work all the days of our lives away just to pay some corporation for what the Earth itself gives for FREE,enriching the thugs that "own" us.

Usury is evil wrong,and cruel.Yet by many people are so used to being abused and paying for things they will defend this usurious lie and belief system even if it kills them to do so. Property is usury is theft.
And no one has a right to own the things that existence and the earth gives us all for free.NO ONE.For when one has what others cannot get but need to live this is EXTORTION. Extortion on a grand scale,normalized.

Look at the animal world,they do not play this game,or have usury. Why? Because animals know what survival requires it requires kin and community and sharing. .Humans have forgotten this basic lesson and soon we will kill this planet with our usury game gone out of control..

Compare animals to humanity in regards of usury.WE are the ones fucked in the head,the weirdest monkeys..

Humans are the only species convinced by it's most destructive members, to pay life and toil to a despot,tyrant,bully and his posse for the 'privilege' to eat and drink what the earth gives to all that live, freely.

We as a species must stop playing make believe about'ownership' ,control, and that empty sound called 'authority' and letting corporations(paper bullies) and human bullies dominate us to cheat us out of our natural rights by imposing a pay- as- you - live extortion on every human being.This zero sum game has to STOP...

"New American Century"
by KMFDM.

Count your blessings
Walk the line
Don't move too fast
Or fall behind
There are rules you must obey
They get re-written by the day
Don't do this - don't say that
Your every move is logged and tracked
By the all oppressive eye
Spy satellites in friendly skies

The new american century
Has only just begun
No one exempt from the tragedy
Counterattack start pushing back

Fight the power
That chokes your speech
Fight the power
That makes you bleed
Fight the power
That propagates lies
To keep you weak
Keep you in line

Fight the power that reigns you in
Divides and conquers
Defines your sin
Fight the power
For one and all
Before the power swallows us whole

No one dares to say a word
Our panic drives all human herds
In the land where cash is king
Our silence bought and sold for free
The future's banging on our door
When real I.D. will be the law
Love thy neighbor and turn him in
It's call patriotism

The world is watching in disbelief
Chanting shame on you
How can you stand by so quietly
Letting them rape your liberties

You can't be bothered or concerned
You see no reason for alarm
Prejudice, religion hate
Usher in new mandate
Absolute and resolved
One nation under one god
Lack of interest has its price
As we're stripped of all our rights

Those who cannot learn from history
Are doomed to repeat it!

[Lance_Boyle]

1. and the computer you posted this tripe from runs on sunshine and love?

property is theft my ass - theft is the 5 minutes of my life I wasted reading this pointless tantrum of a post.

[arcadian]

2. You should probably stay inside your little box.

I'm sure you feel safe there.:eyes:

[Wednesdays]

9. That 5 minutes of reading was your choice

You're like the person complaining about how bad the potato chips taste, and end up finishing the whole bag.
:rofl:

[undergroundpanther]

12. Frightened?

As civilized people, we are also domesticated. We are to primitive peoples as cows and sheep are to bears and eagles. On the rental property where I live in California my landlord keeps two white domesticated ducks. These ducks have been bred to have wings so small as to prevent them from flying. This is a convenience for their keepers, but compared to wild ducks these are pitiful creatures.

Many primal peoples tend to view us as pitiful creatures, too - though powerful and dangerous because of our technology and sheer numbers. They regard civilization as a sort of social disease.

***We civilized people appear to act as though we were addicted to a powerful drug - a drug that comes in the forms of money, factory-made goods, oil, and electricity.

We are helpless without this drug, so we have come to see any threat to its supply as a threat to our very existence. Therefore we are easily manipulated - by desire (for more) or fear (that what we have will be taken away) - ***


and powerful commercial and political interests have learned to orchestrate our desires and fears in order to achieve their own purposes of profit and control. If told that the production of our drug involves slavery, stealing, and murder, or the ecological equivalents, we try to ignore the news so as

** not to have to face an intolerable double bind.**


http://www.awok.org/critique-of-civilization/

[Midlodemocrat]

3. You've yet to indicate an alternative to the capiltalistic society you so despise.

*taps foot*

[arcadian]

4. How about an intentional community?

With sustainability at it's core and values such as people not being able to use things like food and shelter as bargaining chips to keep people in line.

[Midlodemocrat]

5. And, what are the odds of that happening anytime in the near future?

A woman who passed away here not that long ago formed a commune and lived there for a long time, but grew tired of it. That's bound to happen. Some people don't want to live with others. They prefer solitude.

[arcadian]

8. I don't know. I basically agree.

But I wish it weren't so. Human nature pretty much only allows for a capitalistic system at this point in our evolutionary development. I think that a lot of people realize that the planets being able to sustain us as a species will not be able to take much more of it, especially with emerging nations such as China and India and their burgeoning middle class.

For somebody to live in absolute solitude, they would have to be completely self-sustaining. Easier for our ancestors to achieve than us. We've grown accustom to relying on others for basic needs.

It's the dichotomy of competition vs. cooperation that has gotten us to where we are today as a species. Good or bad.

Check out Twin Oaks, it ain't perfect, but it's an interesting study in communal living.

[undergroundpanther]

13. Well if you like solitude,live alone a hermit.

If you don't like being alone,go live with others.

An anguished Ted Sloan asks (1996), “What is the problem with modernity? Why do modern societies have such a hard time producing adults capable of intimacy, work, enjoyment, and ethical living? Why is it that signs of damaged life are so prevalent?” According to David Morris (1994), “Chronic pain and depression, often linked and occasionally even regarded as a single disorder, constitute an immense crisis at the center of postmodern life.” We have cyberspace and virtual reality, instant computerized communication in the global village, and yet have we ever felt so impoverished and isolated?
http://www.awok.org/running-on-emptiness/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Domesticated people are long used to being dominated and living within a domination system.So learning how to relate to others without using control without domination is very difficult for them.Maintaining social ties in an antisocial culture it isn't easy to do after whatever tribal culture got dislocated or has been gone for a few generations,or erased all together. When civilization made humanity unfamiliar with nature, and scared of other people ,People lost all relational skills got cut off from themselves very early in the growing up(domestication process) and are filled with an addicted manufactured identity, it's a challenge to learn an entirely new way of being..Some will not be flexible enough mentally or emotionally to be able to connect to others enough to survive when civilization collapses as it's foundations are rotten and unsustainable.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


As civilized people, we are also domesticated. We are to primitive peoples as cows and sheep are to bears and eagles. On the rental property where I live in California my landlord keeps two white domesticated ducks. These ducks have been bred to have wings so small as to prevent them from flying. This is a convenience for their keepers, but compared to wild ducks these are pitiful creatures.

Many primal peoples tend to view us as pitiful creatures, too - though powerful and dangerous because of our technology and sheer numbers. They regard civilization as a sort of social disease. We civilized people appear to act as though we were addicted to a powerful drug - a drug that comes in the forms of money, factory-made goods, oil, and electricity. We are helpless without this drug, so we have come to see any threat to its supply as a threat to our very existence. Therefore we are easily manipulated - by desire (for more) or fear (that what we have will be taken away) - and powerful commercial and political interests have learned to orchestrate our desires and fears in order to achieve their own purposes of profit and control. If told that the production of our drug involves slavery, stealing, and murder, or the ecological equivalents, we try to ignore the news so as not to have to face an intolerable double bind.

http://www.awok.org/critique-of-civilization/
http://www.awok.org/why-societies-collapse/

[grasswire]

6. a thought-provoking read, thanks

Something all latte-drinking, Volvo-driving, yada yada yada ought to at least think about. The change progressives say they want may not be possible within the framework of capitalism.

[undergroundpanther]

7. You are right, it isn't

possible in the framework of capitalism.

But see how loyal these domesticated people are to their beloved master they pay and pay for the privilege to exist?

They attack me for what? Saying Usury is Unjust,The wealthy few depriving people of food,just to control them is SICK???'For saying that the Earth grows plants at no cost to anyone? WTF??

*sigh*

So obedient domesticated servants attack me,to defend a corrupted system and lies that are killing us all..They just love to kiss the extortionist 'master' ass and submit themselves to the unfair,un-free system the extortionists created,to control them, for so called privileges don't they?.
Domesticated people are a very strange species.They make no sense.

[undergroundpanther]

10. Domesticated humans...Control is the ultimate prize of colonialism

The whole of mankind is living under slavery. Each one of us is a slave. Kings, Presidents, Prime ministers - everyone on this earth is a slave. We are slaves of our desires, which have been implanted in our minds. Desire to eat, when one is hungry, is understandable. But desire to become president of some country? Desire to be the best in the world? Desire to be called a good man? Are all such desires not externally inculcated in our psyche? Do we really need to feel bad if someone criticizes or belittles us, or feel good when someone praises us? Not only these but almost all our responses and reactions to different stimuli are pre-programmed.



Dominance over a wild creature can be achieved in a number of ways. Whips, clubs, leashes, collars, chokers, fences, traps, and treats. Are used to bring animals under control. Dogs are restrained with leashes, horses with bridles, and cows with bells and fences.

People are tamed with work,obligation(genuine or not),threats,fear of poverty,social isolation,drugs,electroshock, soul murder,humiliation,rejection,lack of empathy,lack of supports,religion,homophobia,transphobia,
racism,sexism,lookism,mindfucks,catch 22's,grade systems,gaslighting,mental hospitals,jails,homelessness,child abuse, social services,tazers, guns,hunger,thirst,etc.
And of course those Whips, clubs, leashes, collars, chokers, fences, traps, and treats used to tame wild animals are used on People too.
Just walk into any psych ward or prison you'll see.
But since the control freaks exploiting humanity sense they are losing control of humanity ,they are slowly going back to old style brute control tactics..The police state.

http://www.insurgentdesire.org.uk/agriculture.htm

http://www.akgupta.com/Thoughts/what_is_real_freedom.htm

http://www.ascentofhumanity.com/chapter2-8.php

How does the absolute denial of freedom, the denial of any kind of personal power or influence over one's life, affect the way he thinks, feels and acts?

http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/1898

[blues90]

11. I agree, that is the way we got here .

Many times I feel man should have just stayed with the basics needed to survive.

And look what we have replaced it with , complete insanity and a mad race to nowhere.

[undergroundpanther]

14. I know

All this effort, destruction,waste,excess,toil,lies,pain,trauma,.. to wind up empty.But for some who can live without civilizations cage,it's a time of liberation.

http://www.awok.org/original-affluent-society/

The hunter, one is tempted to say, is “uneconomic man”. At least as concerns non-subsistence goods, he is the reverse of that standard caricature immortalised in any General Principles of Economics, page one. His wants are scarce and his means (in relation) plentiful. Consequently he is “comparatively free of material pressures,” has “no sense of possession,” shows “an undeveloped sense of property,” is “completely indifferent to any material pressures,” manifests a “lack of interest” in developing his technological equipment.

Heh. For the guy crowing about my computer, I got it in 1998.
And when it goes up.I can't afford another,EZ come EZ go.

[blues90]

15. That's true .

Many people seem to think just because someone has a computer they are a sell out. I had my 10 year old machine die months ago and it did not have any bells just 98SE. The only way I was able to get another was to buy this used one and then load 2000 myself with the on-line help of others.

Today , by force , in order to know what is going on we almost need a computer as we did a telephone when they came along.

If things had not reached this point of complete insanity we would need none of this STUFF. All it really does is create another need and another bill.
If this one blows I guess I'm out of the computer world.

I don't need the latest and greatest anything or ungrades. I could get by in a wooden shack and basics and be just fine away from the madness.

If there were a world war , before I knew it I would be vaporized.

For all the land to be owned is a crime in itself , people should have the open option to choose how they live not be forced to be a slave to society pressure. It's the earth , it belonged to every living thing and it still should , it was not for sale.

[mdmc]

16. kick