"Ich bin ein Amerikaner"

[seemslikeadream]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marty-kaplan/iich-bin-ein-amerikaneri_b_114626.html


"The world is waiting to love America again" ran the title of a recent London Observer editorial anticipating Barack Obama's visit to Europe.

Love may be too strong a word to describe the world's feelings for America when George W. Bush was first sworn in as president, but not by much. It's surprising, but irrefutable, to look back at the numbers he inherited. Polls taken in 1999 and 2000 show impressive majorities of people in nations all around the world holding favorable views of the U.S. In the immediate aftermath 9/11, when headlines declared "We Are All Americans" in many languages, those numbers went even higher.

But today, love is not much in the air. As the Pew Global Attitudes Project put it, "Since 2002... the image of the United States has declined in most parts of the world. Favorable ratings of America are lower in 26 of 33 countries for which trends are available."

Some examples: In Germany, our favorability has fallen from 78 percent, when Bush was inaugurated, to 30 percent in 2007; in Britain, from 83 to 51; in Slovakia, from 74 to 41; in Argentina, from 50 to 16; in Turkey, from 52 to 9; in Indonesia, from 75 to 29.

[valerief]

1. We're Amerotrash. nt

[whathehell]

14. "We"?.....I don't agree to that one. n/t.

[seemslikeadream]

15. Yes we

georgie was doing EVERYTHING in our name. Just now you may understand how the Germans felt

[whathehell]

16. Sorry, I don't count myself in. Perceptions don't necessarily

equate with reality. And yes, I HAVE considered the Nazi Germany analogy, but I don't find it particularly apt.

[seemslikeadream]

17. Neither did the Germans

It took awhile


4 million Iraqi refugees

150,000 dead and counting



Genocide by design?

http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/56124 /

Is the United States Killing 10,000 Iraqis Every Month? Or Is It More?

By Michael Schwartz
<http://www.afterdowningstreet.org >.
Posted July 6, 2007

300 Iraqis killed by Americans each day sounds like an impossible figure, but a close look at the reported numbers of violent deaths and rate of armed patrols makes it all too likely.

A state-of-the-art research study published in October 12, 2006 issue of The Lancet (the most prestigious British medical journal) concluded that -- as of a year ago -- 600,000 Iraqis had died violently due to the war in Iraq. That is, the Iraqi death rate for the first 39 months of the war was just about 15,000 per month.

That wasn't the worst of it, because the death rate was increasing precipitously, and during the first half of 2006 the monthly rate was approximately 30,000 per month, a rate that no doubt has increased further during the ferocious fighting associated with the current American surge.

The U.S. and British governments quickly dismissed these results as "methodologically flawed," even though the researchers used standard procedures for measuring mortality in war and disaster zones. (They visited a random set of homes and asked the residents if anyone in their household had died in the last few years, recording the details, and inspecting death certificates in the vast majority of cases.) The two belligerent governments offered no concrete reasons for rejecting the study's findings, and they ignored the fact that they had sponsored identical studies (conducted by some of the same researchers) in other disaster areas, including Darfur and Kosovo. The reasons for this rejection were, however, clear enough: the results were simply too devastating for the culpable governments to acknowledge. (Secretly the British government later admitted that it was "a tried and tested way to measuring mortality in conflict zones"; but it has never publicly admitted its validity).

Reputable researchers have accepted the Lancet study's results as valid with virtually no dissent. Juan Cole, the most visible American Middle East scholar, summarized it in a particularly vivid comment: "the US misadventure in Iraq is responsible for setting off the killing of twice as many civilians as Saddam managed to polish off in 25 years."

[whathehell]

18. A difference....

We Americans, on this board, are not choosing to look the other way. The Jews being killed and disappeared in Germany were often NEIGHBORS of the ordinary Germans.

We are actively opposing this administration and are openly appalled at what we see happening in Irag. We represent 48% of the electorate in the last election and the majority in the 2000 election.

I don't hate myself or hold myself accountable for this administration. You are free to have your own opinion about yourselves.

[seemslikeadream]

20. It is not a matter of just looking the other way

[seemslikeadream]

21. You must work to make georgie and dickie accountable

if they are not we all will hold the shame

[whathehell]

23. I'm doing that. n/t

[ChazII]

33. As Aunt Eller in the play

Oklahoma said, "I ain't sayin' I'm better than anybody else .... but I'll be dang if I ain' just as good."' (Cowboys and the Farmer should be friends song)

I do know that I 'ain't' trash no matter what is in the White House.

[malaise]

2. Did you see these?

http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-33559.html

[seemslikeadream]

3. VIELEN VIELEN DANK malaise

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,1249428,00.jpg

[malaise]

6. Too good

Can't wait for the speech tomorrow. Will watch the German channel after KO.

[lebkuchen]

27. Here are some other pics

http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-33614.html

I'd like to see Obama in a photo with Kurt Beck, chairman of the SPD, who has taken the very unusual step of getting involved in US politics by endorsing Obama.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Beck

[Historic NY]

4. It hopefully will be nice to travel abroad again as an American....

and to hit my London haunts.

[central scrutinizer]

7. bring lots of money

Bushco has turned the American dollar into a joke

[petgoat]

5. After we IMPEACH George Bush and send him to The Hague in chains

foreigners who have been boycotting America in every way will come
flocking to take advantage of our weak dollar, see our sights,
and buy us beer.

:toast: :toast: :toast: :toast:

[seemslikeadream]

9. CHAINS!

[Kaleko]

22. This is true...

as long as you're not right-wing fundies, we'll even send care packets to Amerika.

Ich bin ein Hamburger with dual citizenship and know whereof I speak :9

[awoke_in_2003]

36. "Ich bin ein Hamburger"

Yeah, well I wish I were an Oscar Myer weiner :)

[druidity33]

8. don't make the same mistake JFK did

The correct German would be... Ich bin Amerikaner.

"Ich bin ein Berliner" is technically saying "I am a jelly donut". Of course Germans understood what he meant and it is a fine line in translation... to add or eliminate an article can change the meaning of an entire sentence. I don't know if there is a thing in Germany called an Amerikaner, but it wouldn't be pretty if an Amerikaner was a type of toilet or meat-burger.

:shrug:

[glitch]

10. LOL! Amerikaner was a type of meat-burger. I don't know, that could be more accurate than you think.

:rofl:

[DFW]

28. I haven't seen that in Germany, but there is such a thing in Belgium

My friends there often have "un américain" for lunch--essentially a piece of French
bread, sliced throuogh the middle, and filled with raw ground beef and chopped onions
in the middle. Not my kind of thing, but that's what it's called there.

[glitch]

31. That sounds awful.

It does remind me of an office party where this guy who claimed he and his wife were vegetarians parked himself in front of the steak tartar at the buffet and just inhaled a fairly large bowl of it in about 3 minutes.

I have a feeling his wife was more of a vegetarian than he was. :rofl:

[DFW]

32. If that were all the animal kingdom had to offer, I'd be a vegetarian, too!

[Clark2008]

38. Gross... I don't think I'd ever eat raw meat off a buffet bar.

:scared:

[seemslikeadream]

12. I am a jelly donut

[petgoat]

13. I have come to learn about the Polish people's lust.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,912052-2,00.html

The problem was that the President's message had been badly mangled by Steven Seymour, a freelance interpreter from New York City, hired by the State Department at $150 a day for the Polish leg of Carter's trip. When Carter said he had come to learn about the Polish people's desires for the future, the translator used a Polish word meaning sexual desire. When the President said that he had left the U.S. that morning, the interpreter used a word meaning that he had abandoned the U.S. forever. Carter's praise of the Poles' much revered Constitution of May 3,1791, came across as if he were holding it up to ridicule. Seymour even substituted a few Russian words for Polish.

[Kaleko]

24. JFK got it right.

Ein Berliner can mean either someone from Berlin or (in northern Germany) a donut. SLAD in the Op is correct in saying Ich bin ein Amerikaner.


This idea that the "ein" has to be dropped is just nonsense. Take it from a professional writer/translator.

Or not :shrug:

[DFW]

29. Ummm, OK, not! LOL

I live in the Düsseldorf area, my wife is German with a college degree, we have always
spoken German to each other (34 years together now) and we both agree that the "ein" is
incorrect usage when referring to a person. It may get used incorrectly as a regional
difference, just like they confuse "mich" and "mir" in the Rurhgebiet. People say "ain't"
all the time, too. We all know what it means. It still isn't formal English. In formal
German, "ich bin Hamburger" means you're someone from the Hamburg (oder Umgebung), and
"ich bin ein Hamburger" means you accompany special sauce, lettuce, cheese, onions and
pickles on that sesame seed bun.

[Kaleko]

35. Mensch, you both agree that the common usage of "ein"

is incorrect? DFW, get outta here

(Ihr habt nicht mehr alle Tassen im Schrank, wie?)

Usually, you'd say "Ich bin aus Hamburg oder Berlin oder Frankfurt," instead of calling yourself a Frankfurter or other edible, that much is true.

Btw. to call a boulette (meat patty) a "hamburger" is Americanized German, which my more purist family members deplore, lol.

[druidity33]

39. hmmm

"Usually, you'd say "Ich bin aus Hamburg oder Berlin oder Frankfurt,""

It's an entirely different sentence. One is to say "i am from New York", the other says "i am a New Yorker". I've only taken college German and never been to Germany. But 3 of my 4 German Professors were native speakers from Germany and they all agreed it was sloppy at best for JFK to have included the 'ein'. The 4th Professor was not a native speaker (fluent of course), so he deferred judgement to the other 3.

It's anecdotal, i know. But what can i say? I believed them.

:shrug:

[Kaleko]

40. Well, I'm a native German

who works as a writer, translator, editor and researcher.

To say "Ich bin ein Berliner" is correct.

To say "Ich bin Berliner" is wrong, and you would never hear anyone from Berlin say that.

However, "ich bin Amerikaner," is acceptable lingo. Most commonly you'd say "ich bin ein Amerikaner", though.

Common usage is the main point here. All languages fluctuate and grow over the course of time.

[DFW]

42. Stattgegeben on the hamburgers as food

Sonst, alle Tassen sind scheinbar doch im Schrank. Vielleicht sollte ich
mehr Zeit mit Kneipenbesuchern in Charlottenburg verbringen als mit Lehrern
und Akademikern in NRW, aber die Frage ist mir bis jetzt so wie so nicht zu
Besessenheit geworden. Ich bleibe bei meiner Aussage, eure Ehre.

[lfairban]

37. Jelly doughnut urban legend

According to this, you are both wrong.

The indefinite article ein can be and often is omitted when speaking of an individual's profession or residence but is necessary when speaking in a figurative sense as Kennedy did. Since the president was not literally from Berlin but only declaring his solidarity with its citizens, "Ich bin Berliner" would not have been correct.

[DFW]

41. Wikipedia?

Real life trumps some website for me, but jedem das Seine, as they say.

I'll take my 30 years of living in Germany married to a German over
a site that can (correct me if I'm wrong here) is easily modified.
I get my linguistics from Germans, not from Wikipedia, and will
continue to do so as long as I live there.

[lfairban]

43. Check the references.

So, you disagree with Merriam-Webster:

"The urban legend is that the rousing line "Ich bin ein Berliner," which was intended to mean "I am a Berliner" and to be a message of support and solidarity with the people of Berlin, who had recently seen the construction of the Berlin Wall, actually meant in German "I am a jelly doughnut." In fact, the myth is just that, a myth, and the sentence was quite correct as spoken."


. . . and, Navigating a new Era, by Scott Erb http://books.google.com/books?id=yb2vMKlTnGEC&pg=PA52&vq=eichhoff&dq=%22German+Foreign+Policy:+Navigating+a+New+Era%22&sig=hLx6w6Kxp5-8s2-YNKmIBgnZ1II:

"Kennedy is often chided for his grammar, with the myth being that he should have

left out the indefinite article "ein," making it sound like he was calling himself

a Berliner pastry, or a jelly donut. In fact, Kennedy's grammar was correct. In

German, to express solidarity with a group one must use the indefinite article; if

Kennedy had left it out he would be saying he was literally a native of Berlin.

See Eichhoff, Jürgen (1993). "'Ich bin ein Berliner': A History and Linguistic

Clarification". Monatshefte für den deutschen Unterricht, deutsche Sprache und

Kultur"


There seems to be controversy among people knowledgeable about German grammar. On commenter replied:

"The equivalent, it appears to me, would be someone saying, "I am Danish" in support of the Danish people, who would understand it in this way, while at the same time some U.S. "wise guy" might also respond, "Oh, so this guy's Danish, is he? What kind - fruit- or cheese-filled?""

I don't speak much German, but I click very well. As you say, to each his own.

[MinM]

26. "Ich bin ein Berliner" means just what Kennedy meant - "I am a Berliner"

Kennedy didn't say he was a donut! "Ich bin ein Berliner" means just what Kennedy meant - "I am a Berliner"

I love how these CIA-spread myths end up as the gospel truth, when they are nothing of the sort. Even Keith Olbermann fell for this one.

No, Kennedy did not say he was a donut.

He said, "Ich bin ein Berliner." And if you look up Berliner in a German dictionary, you will find that while donut is one meaning, the other meaning, the one Kennedy was obviously saying, is this:

"to be born in Berlin; to be a native Berliner; to be Berlin-born"

I am never surprised to hear the ignorant say Kennedy said this "wrong," when he didn't. But my heart sank when good ol' Keith Olbermann fell for the disinformation. Wow. I guess if a few people say it, it's suddenly true, eh?

Will all of you reading this please help spread the TRUTH about what Kennedy said? No doubt this will come up in the next few days as Obama prepares his own version of such a speech...
http://realhistoryarchives.blogspot.com/2008/07/kennedy-didnt-say-he-was-donut-eich-bin.html
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x160934

JFK went on to Ireland:

NPR: Here and Now: A Kennedy's Journey Home

Story aired: Friday, December 29, 2006

The Kennedy Library launched this year a new exhibit commemorating President John F. Kennedy's journey home to Ireland in 1963.

After President Kennedy's historic speech at the Berlin Wall on June 26, 1963, he made a trip to Dublin, the land his great grandparents fled during the potato famine in the 19th century.

The exhibit, "A Journey Home," highlights this personal time for the president. And now, newly de-classified documents reveal that Kennedy was the object of death threats during that trip to Ireland.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=148855&mesg_id=151013

[wildbilln864]

11. k&r! nt

:hi:

[Riddler]

19. So what? This piss-head is someone they might like to have a beer with.

[DFW]

34. Some of them might even be starting to see through that one, too

[Mind_your_head]

25. Nope the globe is in big ass trouble and will go to "whatever shelter in a storm" , mho.

[tinymontgomery]

30. Don't forget about Poland

Don't forget about Poland