How sick is this? Bungee cord killing for religion

[wvbygod]

To think there are really people in society around us like this...

http://www.ajc.com/celebrities/content/metro/clayton/stories/2008/07/10/clayton_daughter_killed.html

Sandeela Kanwal, 25, of Jonesboro argued with her father as they drove home from her job at Wal-Mart Sunday night, according to the arrest warrant. He was angry about her extra-marital affair and her desire for a divorce from a husband she didn't love. Kanwal married Majid Latif in an arranged marriage in the Punjab province of Pakistan in 2002.

When Kanwal said she would not reconsider her ending her six-year marriage "she filed divorce papers this month" Rashid became enraged. He took a bungee cord that he had carried from the car into the house and strangled his daughter in her bedroom. The warrant says he put the cord in his pocket so his daughter didn't see it.

Police charged Rashid with murder.

In honor killings, women are killed by relatives for exhibiting a lack of modesty.

The killings are usually in response to a woman wanting a divorce, wanting to choose a marriage partner, or even if she is raped, according to a 1999 Amnesty International report. The woman is considered to have brought shame on the family.

[zanne]

1. One thing I always wonder about...

Why don't the women see this coming? Why don't they get as far away from these monsters as possible?

[MindPilot]

4. You are trying to apply reason and logic something wholly irrational

Did the father think that his barbaric tribal customs would somehow be accepted and the police would say "oh she shamed your family? Well then, no problemo".

[Warpy]

21. Where are they going to go?

Remember, they can't just get a flat in these cultures. The only way to escape parents is to marry and that gets them a whole different set of monsters if it doesn't work out.

Their bodies are always owned by some man--a husband, a father, a brother, a son.

They do see it coming. They just hope until the last breath leaves their bodies that it won't happen to them.

[zanne]

30. I guess I can see your point.

And if you're raised to stay "loyal" to the family, the urge to run must be tempered with that loyalty in mind.

Hell, I'm a third generation Franco American and, when my mother was married, her mother gave her money to put in a "special place, just in case". It was traditional for the mother to give her
daughter some "getaway money" just in case she had to leave in a hurry.

[hfojvt]

35. this happened near Atlanta

so she could go get an apartment, except for the fact she was working at Wal-mart and probably could not afford to live on her own.

[Warpy]

37. Her culture was also against it

and the only way that could have happened is if she'd been able to save and leave town, something that wouldn't happen on a Wal Mart wage that she had to turn over to male relatives.

Remember, these cultures own women and they make damned sure no woman ever has the means to leave.

[snooper2]

43. Same question can be applied

To the fundies that got their kids taken away here in Texas...



GOBAMA!

[Spouting Horn]

2. Punishments for these

behaviors go virtually unpunished in those countries "over there."

But they come "over here" and insist they be allowed to live under Shariah rules, and those who disapprove are branded as xenophobes.

Yes, I am quite "phobic" of Shariah law, thank you.

[treestar]

6. But this individual must know it will be punished here

Same as the battering spouse that perpetrates crimes here. They must have some inkling it is illegal.

In our culture, it would be the husband, though, not the father. But there are daughters who are abused by fathers.

Most Muslims who move here go by our rules. Most Muslims even at home don't engage in these killings.

[Blomst]

12. I wholeheatedly agree!

Violence against women in the name of god, committed by ignorant people who believe they are doing god's bidding, are on the rise in all Western nations due to the influx immigrants from certain nations where such practices are common! Honor killings are not as much acts of passion or lack of self-control as we see in domestic abuse cases; it is considered a religious duty to kill the offending "female" relative in those cultures. These actions are often planned for weeks in advance and many times involve the involvement of many members of the extended family. Sometimes, both the female family member and her forbidden lover are murdered. In Denmark, they are trying to stem the tide of honor killings by putting the whole family on trial since honor killings often involve the whole family's participation, even the mothers.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

38. Well, at least they don't waste excessive amounts of money on AIDS research.

THAT would be bad, innit?

[EstimatedProphet]

40. It's good to admit your phobias

The next step is to get them under control.

[LeftishBrit]

41. Very few people outside Islamic countries insist on being allowed to live under Shariah law

Some do, like this man. They then end up in jail as they should.

Rejecting all immigrants - or even all Muslim ones (incidentally, honour killings also occur in several other religions) - over the behaviour of a few *would* be xenophobic.

There are laws against murder, and everyone needs to obey them.

[Submariner]

3. Since this murder happened in the U.S.

the assailant should be beaten to bloody pulp within inches of his life, and have that image broadcast to Pakistan, India, and where ever else this sick twisted religious custom originates. Let these idiots see that if you harm a woman in the U.S., even if in your own family, we will beat the living crap out of you.

This honor killing stuff needs to cease. I know I don't want to live next door to an asshole like that.

[noamnety]

7. If you harm a woman in the U.S ...

most of the time nothing happens to you. May as well be honest about that.

(you can direct any questions to LaVena Johnson)

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[zanne]

29. Domestic violence isn't taken very seriously here. nt

[EstimatedProphet]

36. It isn't taken seriously enough, I'll grant you.

[Greyhound]

31. You are absolutely correct.

In spite of the flapping of anal orifices that frequent this board, this reality is easily proved.

From the brutal, barbaric, anachronistic, process for prosecuting rape (if you can even get the case prosecuted), to the lack of alternatives for women in these situations, this nation is utterly shameless in it's double standard.

Of course, these laws and procedures also came out of a backward, religious attitude as well.

[DCKit]

8. Stoning would be the more culturally appropriate remedy.

But I'll settle for life in prison under U.S. law.

[treestar]

5. The culture could be partly to blame but it's not impossible to

have domestic violence in any culture, including ours.

Though it's usually not the father in western cultures.

[MindPilot]

9. Right, but I think this is a whole different dynamic and much worse.

Most domestic violence in our world is usually an argument that turns violent. The motivation is the passion of a lost temper.

In an "honor killing" the act is cold, premeditated and calculated, essentially a business decision. It is more comparable to a mob hit than domestic violence.

[noamnety]

10. The big difference is that when white people do these things

people refuse to see it as part of their culture. When white folks do it, it's "a few bad apples." Millions of them, but still, all acting as individuals, not indicative of their cultural values for some reason.

When this happened, I don't remember anyone here talking about how "barbaric" British people are:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23372230-details/Father+drugs+and+suffocates+daughter+as+revenge+for+wife's+affair/article.do

In fact, I can't even find a record of DU finding it newsworthy in any way. Interesting.



edit: Ah, there we go, in the post right above mine, as I was typing this, someone has already stated it's totally different when good white Christian folks do it.

[Marrah_G]

11. That story and honor killings are very different things and you know that.

Unless you can show me where in Britain this is encouraged or excused by their culture.

[noamnety]

13. yep yep yep

totally different, and the fact that men feel justified in killing women - or their children - as revenge for not behaving sexually, well, that's not indicative of cultural values at all. (Except when it is.)

[Marrah_G]

18. Show me where the British Culture are encouraging and or condoning such behavior.

Such conduct is considered horrifying in British Culture, not an accepted part of society.

[noamnety]

22. It's accepted in our culture.

And quietly condoned by the government, which often helps to cover it up - as a matter of honor.

Again, ask LaVena Johnson about that. Or the people of Haditha. Or the seven state troopers who won't be going to trial for gang-raping a woman in NJ.

[Marrah_G]

26. No- it is not condoned by our culture or our government.

It is still a problem in this country, one that still needs alot more resources given to solve it. But you are making a ridiculous argument in saying it is condoned by our government and by our communities and culture.

Adding: You and I never going to agree on this. We just aren't. So I'm going to drop it before it gets too heated.

[MindPilot]

15. Did it hurt when you pulled that assumption out of your ass?

Please link to where I said anything that could remotely be interpreted as "it's totally different when good white Christian folks do it".

[noamnety]

20. Rather than stating there's nothing going on like that in our world

or making a point of identifying how it's totally different when we do it, I think it's more productive - if we want to solve the problem of violence in "our world" to point out the similarities.

The thing is, we have a much easier time demonizing Other cultures than we do examining our own. I'm not excusing the other culture in any way. I want to be clear about that. But there's that log thing in our own eye that maybe we ought to address first.

And much of the violence against women IS premeditated in our own culture. That's why the most dangerous time for a woman trying to escape a domestic violence situation is AFTER she's left and gotten a restraining order, because it's TYPICAL for the act of violence to be premeditated, even in this culture.

I would prefer to see these cases addressed as problems with patriarchy, rather than problems with that Other culture, but I think that's an uncomfortable thing for many of us. Generally, we all know women who have been victims of gendered violence. That means we all also know men who have abused women. But we can't call them monsters. Because we see them as human (as opposed to dehumanizing them) those people are just regular men with issues they are struggling with, maybe a bad temper or ego, you know. We excuse them. Those Others, though, man, they are just BARBARIC, I guess.

I think it might be time we quit making excuses for men who do the exact same shit with the exact same consequences, in this culture.
Let's call them barbaric, too. And make them poster children for this culture, shame this culture into actually addressing the issue, instead of a giant collective shrug of "oh, what can you do, the guy can't be responsible for his actions in the same way, I mean, come on, it was a heated argument (which apparently leads to murder, rape, etc)."

[Marrah_G]

24. We do call those who do it barbaric. It is NOT accepted in our culture.

In this defendants case it is accepted in his culture to murder women. He came here and for whatever reason could not leave that behind.

[SidneyCarton]

25. In the end, there must be one standard, murder is wrong period.

All who commit such a crime are punished, the law, and the lives of our fellow beings are not to be taken into our own hands. There are no excuses for violence against women, (I say this as a man) those who prey on those weaker than themselves (I rarely hear tell of female bodybuilders or martial arts specialists getting physically abused) are common bullies, regardless of their position in society, and must be brought to justice. All abuse is barbarism, regardless of the perpretrators.

[noamnety]

32. I wish more people looked at it that way

as an example of a multi-national trend of violence against women, instead of trying to sort it into separate categories and treating those categories as deserving of different levels of outrage or marginalization depending on the religion/nationality of the offenders.

Condemning violence against women isn't xenophobic. What I see as xenophobic is the tendency we have to isolate examples of it to reinforce stereotypes, while refusing to hold the same mirror up to our own culture.

It's kind of like how the media has historically covered crime. It's not racist to show a photo of a black man being arrested for a crime. It becomes racist when the media is faced with 50 crimes by white men and 50 crimes by black men, and they opt to show more of the photos of the black men, less of the white. And it becomes racist when they start pulling up previous stories of similar crimes by black men to start reinforcing the story line that this is what "black" men do (rather than this is what people do).

[SidneyCarton]

33. We can condemn it around the world, but we must fight it here.

The "inner vessel" must be cleansed before we seek to fix the world. The Ideal of Justice is that it weighs each case individually and equally. We will probably never attain such an ideal, but that is what we must strive for.

In the case of violence against women, LGBT, minorities, assault is still assault, rape is still rape and murder is still murder, and there can be no excuse for such activities in an nation of laws.

I have no more right to beat my wife, rape my children or kill my kin for percieved slights than I have to do so to a stranger on the street. This must always be made clear, for it is the basis of our civilization, it is what Jefferson meant when he penned that we have the inalienable right to life.

[SidneyCarton]

14. Honor be damned, this is murder.

Mr. Rashid should have thought about that before he whipped out the bungee chord, I hope he uses this defense in court, it ought to be eye-opening for him.

[SidneyCarton]

17. And lest I be mistaken,

There is no excuse for this, regardless of race, creed, religion or otherwise. Violence against women is inexcusable period, and must be met with intolerance equal to that which spawns it.

[Marrah_G]

19. But in his mind and in the minds of his relatives it is worth going to jail over

Otherwise he would not have done it. In their eyes women are property to be bought and sold and killed if they dare to act like free people.

[SidneyCarton]

23. Then let him rot in prison for it.

No death penalty, no martyrdom just the cold embrace of concrete and steel until he's too old to know any different. Sooner or later it will become clear that there is little glory to be gained from such actions, as having a relative in jail tends to be a rather strong dishonor in our culture.

[Marrah_G]

27. I agree- he should never be allowed near another female again.

[Blue_Tires]

16. wow... not to far off the heels of this story in Atlanta:

Jury chooses life without parole in contract killing


A Fulton County jury spared Chiman Rai's life Friday, the day after he was convicted of ordering a hit man to kill his daughter-in-law.

Prosecutors had sought the death penalty, but the jury ruled unanimously in favor of life without parole.

Sparkle Rai, then 22, was strangled and stabbed eight years ago. And while her breath was being choked from her, she reached toward her baby daughter, Analla.

Those are just some of the facts that made the murder so different from the more than 100 killings that Fulton County suffers every year and why Rai should be sentenced to death, prosecutor Sheila Ross told a Superior Court jury Friday.

"This particular murder, outrageous, wantonly vile," Ross said. "The brutal murder of this young mother not only justifies but demands the death penalty."


http://www.ajc.com/search/content/metro/stories/2008/06/28/coldcase.html

[LeftishBrit]

34. It's a big problem worldwide

There are organizations that campaign against it; e.g.

www.stophonourkillings.com

and of course Amnesty International.

Violence against women who displeased their husbands used to be thoroughly accepted in Western culture. It's now much less acceptable, though it still happens. So cultures do change. I hope that all cultures move in the direction of totally rejecting honour killings (these are *not* an intrinsic part of any religion!). In the meantime, people need to obey the law of whatever country they're living in; and I hope he gets locked up and the key thrown away - I don't believe in the DP for anyone.

[Kitty Herder]

39. These men bring much greater "shame" on their families by killing their innocent "loved" ones.

I hope there's an afterlife so that people who do things like this to women and girls can rot in hell.

[backscatter712]

42. This savage sack of shit should be hanged.

Let's see how he likes being strangled...