the senate is in session today! saturday...to bail out the mortgage industry

[spanone]

get yer wallets out.

http://cspan.org/watch/cs_cspan2_wm.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS2

[msongs]

1. welfare for churches, the filty rich, farmers, mortgage liars while the poor eat dirt. sad ent it?

[karynnj]

7. The housing crisis has to be dealt wth

Though the bill includes somethings that are not good - as all bills do, there are major parts of this bill that deal with the very real problem there. Here is a You tube with Kerry speaking about various things including a very good description of what happens to towns as forecloseures increase. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qko8thKJPy0&feature=related

The bill they are passing includes the fund - that Bush fought that will provide money to let states help people renegotiate their mortgages to enable them to state in their homes. (The mortage companies settle for less, but it's better than foreclosing on the house in a depressed market. More importantly, the home owners benefit, the town and its businesses benefit.

[jazzjunkysue]

13. The banks who lent money to those without income verification should close.

Period. That's how you deal with the "crisis."


I was offered a mortgage that was $100K higher than I want to pay, and so I used just 2/3's of it. The broker tried to tell me to buy a bigger house, but I refused,because I'm responsible and realistic.

The banks who did not verify credit and income should be closed and those who continue to write mortgages should screen people for their ability to pay.

I don't see any reasonable argument for loaning money to people who can't pay it.

I also have no pity for people who took adjustible rate mortgages. They bought it, and now they wish they hadn't. This bill will continue to encourage adjustible rate mortages because it tells people they don't have to worry: I'l bail them out.

[karynnj]

22. That does seem the hell and brimstone approach

The problem is that it hurts society to have people out of their homes and cities declining as they have too many boarded up houses leading to a down spiral in the entire community. Consider that there will be people like you, who prudently obtained a mortgage that they could afford and they had nothing severely impact that financial situation, living down the block from people losing their homes. What does that do for the value of their house? What does it do to the small businessmen with service businesses in the are.

The block grants to communities - the provision that Bush disliked - provides states with money to keep people in their homes. It does require the banks to write down the total of the loan where values have greatly decreased. This gives the homeowner another chance and it could help the downward spiral.

Though I personally have never come close to having the type of financial crisis that these people are having, I can see that there are likely many people who never did anything wrong. Would you be able to avoid foreclosure if you were let go by your employer or if your business failed?

I think you need to increase regulation of banks simultaneously to counter the problem in the future -

[jazzjunkysue]

2. What happened to the 1% doctrine?!?! Remember, if there's 1% chance they could strike..

We invaded Iraq on the 1% doctrine: If there's a 1% chance Hussein could attack the US we have to pre-emtively go in and remove his entire government along with their water hospitals, schools, electricity, roads, you name it. It all has to go if there's a 1% chance they could throw a rock at us and hit us. From the middle east. Right.

Now, the government has decided 50% doctrine is fine. If there's a 50% chance the government will have to pay for these bad loans, we'll do it. Let's go! Oh, and don't worry, because the chance that this could cost the government $100Billion, that's with a B, is only 5%. That's pretty close to 1%, isn't it? I trust them. Don't you?

"Create home-buyer credit. The bill includes a tax refund for first-time home buyers worth up to 10% of a home's purchase price but no more than $7,500."

"The refund, however, serves more as an interest-free loan, since it would have to be paid back over 15 years in equal installments."
So, on top of bad credit and the inability to pay, we'll just add more incentives to get into that loan by removing $7500 from the initial down payment. Let's get more bad loans going. Good idea.

"The Congressional Budget Office on Tuesday estimated the potential cost of a rescue could be $25 billion. CBO said there is probably a better than 50% chance that Treasury would not need to step in. It also said there is a 5% chance that Freddie's and Fannie's losses could cost the government $100 billion"

This is wealth re-distribution for people who don't handle their money well. And they raised the limit to over $600K. So, you can buy a luxury home with bad credit, a reduced down payment and the government will bail you and your bank out.

Where are the real conservatives? They should be hanging this idea by it's neck.

Problem? Bad loans, you say? Bad credit?
Answer: More bad loans for more people and more credit.

How in the world is this going to get us "out" of this problem? It just digs us in deeper.

[DaveJ]

3. Credit shouldn't be a prerequisit for a home, which is an essential need.

If people don't own their own homes, then all their money will go to some greasy landlord.

Yeah, I agree an extravagant home like a McMansion shouldn't be given away to people who don't deserve it, and that people should live simply. They are the ones who should not be bailed out. But everyone deserves some kind of home they can call their own.

[jazzjunkysue]

12. So, who's going to loan money to someone with bad credit? Now, you are.

Yes, you. Your tax dollar is the new mortgage company and you're going to take the loss when you loan money to someone you already know doesn't pay their bills.

This is just one more way for people to get deeper into debt and fail to live within their means.

I see no reason why healthy people should have their housing paid by the government. If you're able to classify yourself as somehow disabled and unable to work, that's an entirely different conversation.

We're talking about people who know they don't manage their money well, getting mortgages they can't afford to the tune of $600K+.

This is irresponsible, and now, you're going to pay their mortgage for them.

Congratulations: You just decided to fund someone else's $600K house.

Tell me one reason why that makes sense to you?

[DaveJ]

23. Why does nobody ever listen....

I just agreed with you about the extravagant home issue. Yet you ignored my point completely, and apparently just want to argue.

The housing issue is similar to the healthcare issue. People need healthcare, they'll get it one way or another, the question is not whether it gets paid, it is how it gets paid.

If the public does not support people who lack the financial luck necessary to get a normal loan, they will still have to pay for their housing somehow. They'll probably end up renting from some wealthy real estate mogul or slum lord, making the rich even richer which the poor get poorer, making that divide wider and wider, if that's even possible anymore. Is that what you want? We should be paying for social stability. The money would come right back to us. Home owners are good for the economy because they buy things like stoves and furniture and lawnmowers, and the wealth gets distributed evenly instead of ending up in the bank accounts of millionaires.

[PatSeg]

19. You make an excellent point

Decent housing is a necessity, not a luxury for the financially worthy. Housing used to be affordable for almost anyone who was working, even if it was at low paying jobs. And most families could survive on one income and still afford to eat. Today a two-income family often can't afford to keep a roof over its head.

Are there shanty towns ahead in our future?

[DaveJ]

24. Let the economy decide if it's a shanty.

I'd rather live in a shanty that I own than rent from some overprivledged landlords. I don't think the US is going to become a nation of shanties if we let people own their own homes. It is up to us to decide.

It requires a major change in vision to understand that we decide and that there is no single decider.

[karynnj]

25. Part of the bill was to set up an affordable Housing trust

to help with building affordable housing. This part was based on a Kerry bill that had bipartisan support.

In addition to parts helping the banks, there were 4 provisions of Kerry's that passed:
Four key provisions included in the Housing and Economic Recovery Act introduced by Senator Kerry:

• Kerry worked with Senator Gordon Smith (R-Oregon) to include the Mortgage Revenue Bond Provision, which provides an additional $11 billion of tax-exempt private activity bonds to housing finance agencies. The provision would allow the proceeds from the bonds to be used to refinance subprime loans, provide mortgages for first time homebuyers and for multifamily rental housing. This means that approximately $209 million in targeted mortgage relief will be available to the homeowners of Massachusetts, which could result in as may as 1,000 new loans in Massachusetts. Nationwide this would result in close to 87,000 additional loans.

• The bill also contains provisions to amend the Service Members Civil Relief Act (SCRA) by extending the period a lender must wait before starting disclosure procedures from 90 days to nine months after a service member has returned from active duty and capping interest on mortgages at 6 percent for one year after a serviceperson completes his/her services.

• The bill also establishes a National Affordable Housing Trust Fund, introduced by Kerry and Senator Olympia Snowe (R-Maine) which requires Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to set aside a portion of their profits of which, 65 percent will be used for the Housing Trust Fund (approximately $3.4 billion over ten years), and 35 percent will go toward a Capital Magnet Fund to leverage affordable housing development and community development activities. In 2000, Kerry wrote the first National Affordable Housing Trust Fund legislation to construct, rehabilitate, and preserve 1.5 million units of housing over the next 10 years.

• The bill includes $3.92 billion for the Community Development Block Grant (CDBG) program which will help local communities fight the effects of foreclosure. Earlier this year, Kerry, along with Senator Edward Kennedy, sent a letter to the Senate leadership underscoring the need for $2 billion in additional funding for CDBG in the upcoming housing legislation.

[KharmaTrain]

4. This Isn't A Bad Bill

It puts some much needed boosting of the FHA...and is an attempt to get those with sub-primes into fix mortgages that, one hopes, would stabilize the market. Supposedly, according to Senator Dodd, there shouldn't be a need to open up the treaury to bail out Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac...and I hope he's right.

Also, the bill includes setting up much needed watchdogs on the mortgage lending industry...whether that will have any effect is anyone's guess. It looks like should pass with plenty to spare.

Hopefully this now opens the door to much needed banktrupcy reform...repealing the draconian '05 bill that set the fuse to this meltdown by allowing lenders to jack up interest rates at will and all but making indentured servants out of those who owe.

[spanone]

5. if the money is available for freddie & fannie , they will use it...eventually if not now

and it's unlimited amounts

[KharmaTrain]

6. Unfortunately I Agree

I was just citing what Senator Dodd was saying. Personally I can't see how this mess isn't righted without a massive bail-out...especially after seeing Paulsen's testimony last week. You know we're not getting the full extent of the damage here.

[soothsayer]

9. they only have thru 2009 to use it

if needed. they've never taken a penny in the past.

[jazzjunkysue]

15. In this economy, everyone sees potential money as "theirs" and so you're right.

B* had alot of people convinced that their social security money is already "theirs" and so "we" should be able to take it all out now and invest it ourselves.

This is utter crap. It's not yours. It might be, later on, but not all up front.

But the Bankers will see any potential money asl already theirs and they will spend it and we will all pay and they will continue to convince us that they're coming to our rescue.

Wake up, sheeple! They're doing this in every industry: Oil, savings and loans, insurance, airlines. They'd to it with big pharma if they could figure out how to hide the real pharma profits.

While you're paying $4/gallon at the pump we're still giving "financial assistance" to oil companies. Theyr'e having the best year, ever, but we're still paying them from the federal coffers.

They create the "crisis" and convince you they have to save "you." Every time, they give "taxpayers" a piece, but save the biggest peice for corporate wellfare.

You've been sold up the creek by your senate once again, and you're defending it!

Wake up!

[elehhhhna]

8. the banks are the new Terri Schaivo

[RB TexLa]

10. Just wait, we'll probably be on the hook for a billion or so when they bail out Ford.

[jazzjunkysue]

16. Didn't we already bail out US car companies? I seem to remember that.

[dysfunctional press]

11. whenever the government bails out a corporation, the executives should be paid minimum wage.

until the government loans have been paid back.

stock options and bonuses included.

[jazzjunkysue]

17. Funny, how that's not anywhere in the bill.

[blues90]

14. since these home loan compaines were scaming the buyers

then the loan companies should not be bailed out . Fuck them . They knew what they were doing was going to hit a lot of people . Bail out the home owners who were scammed but not the companies who did this. Let Fanny and the other sink where they belong , pull their assests and end them .
They lied people into a hole. Just like the air lines , screw them , if they cannot run a business then they should sink just like any other small business would sink and no one would bail them out . I don't see the difference.

[jazzjunkysue]

18. Exactly. Let's return to reality: You have to make a dollar the real way: Legally.

[onethatcares]

20. amen to that, and

have at least a 10% down payment in cash for the house you want to buy, along with a job history that shows you've been working. But, the problem with that is, no one can save enough to get a down payment on the house they want to buy, and jobs, shmobs, they get outsourced, tossed and in short, taken away when you least expect it. So we can forget about any real meaningful solutions to any of these problems, be it healthcare, foreclosures, employment or what ever else is coming down the line. The only people that are making out in this market are our elected officials. We should stop that immediately. Peace

[blues90]

21. even people who had real loans are losing their homes

because as you said they lose their good jobs and can't keep up with the payments . This entire thing is going to crash . I see no way of avoiding it now.