So I went to my supermarket yesterday

[malaise]

here in Jamaica. Normally there is a Salvation Army person with the can. He was there but two Americans came up to me and said they weren't advertising anything but I should take their flier. I gave them a 'don't fugg with me look' and they moved on to the next person. When I was leaving one of them came up to me and said they were just promoting Jesus.
I told him: 'Why don't you fuck off, stop violating my space and go fight Bush's war in Iraq'. A group of young people leaving at the same time let out a good laugh and said well said mums.

I reported them to the owners of the Plaza. WTF is wrong with these people. I wonder who paid for this trip.

gr.

[Jim Sagle]

1. Seek help.

[malaise]

10. They should n/t

[Jim Sagle]

15. Projection - it's a ubiqitous thing.

[Subdivisions]

79. And what sort of help, exactly, are you suggesting for malaise?

I'm with malaise. Not only does it offend me that people trap you into a situation with their agendas at the entrance of supermarkets and Wal-Marts, but they then enter your space and try to force that agenda on you. Whether it's prostelytizing Jesus or attempting to collect a donation or trying to sell you a diseased little puppy, it can be annoying - especially the Jesus and Bible-thumping ones who are attempting to get you to live your life based on a some invisible omniscient being in the sky who loves you but who would smite you in a heartbeat.

I don't mind giving. But don't push your beliefs or agendas off on me. If I'm interested, I will ask. Otherwise, sit there and stay out of my space and don't say anything to me unless it's a pleasant salutation or greeting on my way in. And, if you addressed me on the way in, say nothing to me on the way out and I'll say nothing to you.

Edited to add: I find proselytizing EXTREMELY rude. It's like saying "You don't live your life right so you need us to show you the way." Fuck that.

[malaise]

98. Beautifully stated

Violate my space and expect a response

[Iris]

284. I agree, but I had to do a second look because I thought TX EX was saying

what kind of help can you get for malaise! Thinking, of course, that we're all suffering from malaise thanks to Bush and people like him!

[malaise]

301. LOL

:hi:

[Dorian Gray]

314. It doesn't say that to me...

When people prosthelytize near me, I just keep walking or mind my own business. I don't think it's rude because I barely spend any time thinking about it or worrying about it. I'm quite happy with my current path, and I don't feel badly when people on the streets seem to think I'm going to hell because I don't want to talk to them about their Assembly Church of non-denominational doom.

[we can do it]

380. Glad It Doesn't Bother You But I am Sick of It

Buy my bunch of bull shit - from religeous to candy, or just plain give me your money - keep your crap to yourself.

[Blue_In_AK]

338. Don't get me started on "proselytizing."

:grr: I remember when my dad was ill with what ultimately killed him in 1994, a so-called fundie "friend," who had known my father for years, had the gall to ask him if he'd been "saved," admonishing him that he needed to "confess his sins and accept Jesus as his personal savior" -- this despite the fact that my father was raised a Quaker and had been active in his Methodist church for decades. My dad didn't have a mean bone in his body, and you would have been hard-pressed to find anyone who had a negative word to say about him. I remember my mother, who was usually pretty tolerant, was livid.

There is no limit to the affrontery of these people.

[malaise]

344. And that is the essential point here

Rude people must be dealt with harshly. We have allowed these morons to violate our space with tasteless haste.

[rebel with a cause]

360. On the streets of NYC I learned to say

"I gave down the street" to the organized/religious panhandlers. I was shocked (and amused) one day to realize that simply out of habit I was saying this to those handing out leaflets and other such things. I still sometimes say this to pesky people who approach me at the door of stores.

[GTurck]

403. Exactly right...

As a one time church-goer I think the best way to evangelize is to live what I believe not try to force others to accept anything. I don't like it when they come to my house or stop me in a public space and try to get me to go to a church that I am not interested in. :eyes: :kick:

[fascisthunter]

440. I'm with malaise as well

God isn't something one ever should sell....


live by example and people may then take interest in your spiritual path. Until then, show folks respect by not assuming they need your spiritual path. To me and many I know, pushing one's spirituality on others by doing this is self-centered and has nothing really to do with spirituality, but it is a prime example of there being a lack of one.

In my opinion, its the ultimate example of projection by people who are really lost.

[dave123williams]

384. Help? What for? Proselytizers are obnoxious. Take your 'beliefs', and *cram* them Churchie.

[baby_mouse]

395. It's the fundamentalists that need help.

And a reminder that waving agendas in the faces of people minding their own business is unwelcome is appropriate. There's nothing rude about brushing off a timewaster.

[JeanGrey]

511. Our neighbor lost their son, who was 30 and their 11 year old

grandson in a car wreck. The son lost control and hit a truck head on about a mile from here. The other grandson who is five, had massive head injury. They saved his life but he will probably be disabled for the rest of it, he's in a wheelchair and on a feeding tube because he cannot swallow.

Their "fundy" church I guess you would call it has paid their house payments for four months, brought them food, built a beautiful landscaped memorial in the front yard, donated carpet cleaning, furniture they needed, a lift for him, wheelchair. This past weekend I watched a crew of 30 or so from the church sweating in 90 plus degree weather building a huge wheelchair ramp off the front porch that was thirty feet long to accommodate his chair while the rest mowed and cleaned weeds from the yard.

They also paid for the funerals while they were waiting for insurance money.

These are great people. I'm sorry that you paint all with the same brush.

[Retired AF Dem]

2. Wouldn't a simple

"I'm not interested" been enough? The world is full of assholes.

[malaise]

9. No

That would force me to have to say that too often. One good 'fuck off' and they'll never annoy me again.

[otohara]

305. I Had A Couple of Unaffiliated Voters

on the phone yesterday be really icky to me like that.

Glad it was on the phone and not to my face.

[malaise]

310. I'm way more tolerant of political callers

and political pollsters.

[onenote]

487. why?

[malaise]

489. Because I am a citizen

and politics is a part of my civic duty. How resources are allocated is important to me. It is not a myth.

[onenote]

492. if someone was handing out fliers for John McCain would you take one?

Would you treat someone handing out info from a progressive organization the same as someone handing out info from a RW perspective?

[malaise]

496. Yep and I'd let them see me throwing it into the garbage can n/t

[JeanGrey]

512. Sure it would've.

[baby_mouse]

397. I don't think any lasting harm was done.

I'm ambivalent, to be honest. I hate timewasters and proselytising Christians are creepy and irritating and don't give up and will happily stand and waste your time for hours. I think a good, hard "get out of my face" is sometimes the only way to shift them. I;ve tried "I'm not interested" and they usually respond with "that's because your a SINNER" or some other crap.

[Warpy]

3. I generally give the Starvation Army a pass. I've even been known

to contribute. No, I don't agree with their religious bias, but they still do manage to help people, including one person I know quite well who was literally picked up off the street and put on a path that led to a master's degree.

The Jesus salesman would get the rough side of my tongue, too. Their sole purpose is to guilt people and make them feel like shit.

You want me to know how great Jesus is for you, show me by your daily life.

[malaise]

6. I always donate to the Salvation Army

These were not Salvation Army people. The Salvation Army guy was sitting quietly on the side.

[Zhade]

364. The GLBT people they discriminate against don't thank you.

NT!

[Warpy]

449. I don't see them campaigning

to criminalize gays, just having the same morbid religious scruples shared by so many religious organizations.

The fact is that they do help a lot of people, that their contributions don't pay fat salaries to the top honchos, and they accomplish real good in a country where so many charities are just tax dodge scams to pay heirs of the wealthy huge salaries for life.

All of those are valid reasons to support them. However, my major donations go to charities that are more gay tolerant.

[Olney Blue]

4. Were they wearing white shirts and black ties?

My husband was raised in the Mormon church (he is now an athiest), but they send young men out as missionaries. It is almost like a rite of passage for them.

[malaise]

7. The Mormons here don't walk the plazas. They ride around on bikes in pairs and annoy you at your

home. They don't come here though. They got smart.

[Clark2008]

5. Why, exactly, were you so rude?

First of all, the trip was more than likely funded by donations of the people who attend their church.

Secondly, if you don't want to hear their spiel, you have the right not to, but you don't have to be rude. Just, politely, say that you're not interested. If they continue to follow and bug you, then you can get rude.

But, unless you've described it incorrectly, they simply walked up to you to tell you what they were doing. Just tell them you're not interested.

Why the need to go all ballistic?

[malaise]

8. I am always amused when people tell me I'm rude

when rude people invade my space. I find proselytizing very rude. Sorry - I too have rights.

[Clark2008]

11. I'm always amused when people try to justify their rude behavior.

I said, above, that you have a right not to listen, but I'm wondering why you felt such a visceral urge to be a pain in the ass.

There's too much meanness in the world.

P.S. Proselytizing is what Christians are taught to do. It's not rude - it's Biblical.

[malaise]

21. He was the pain in the ass

but I don't expect you to get it.

[sammythecat]

358. Jesus Christ, you sound like a crank.

How long have you been ballistic over this trivial incident? All day, so far? If you could get away with it, would you like to kill these people? It's 9:00pm here now and I haven't seen anything on the news about a shooting rampage in Jamaica yet, so I assume you made it home without anyone getting in your way or anything.

This is as far as I go in this absurd thread. Go ahead and turn purple "if" you feel the need. You get the last word. I'm not reading any more of this useless and unpleasant flame bait. A real time spoiler this is. Thanks

[RNdaSilva]

476. Yep...

[LiberalEsto]

42. Not all Christians proselytize

just the obnoxious ones.

Real Christians go out and help people instead of pushing dogma.

[mitchtv]

130. Bingo

Lead by example.Xians gennerally follow the example of the Pharisees, however.

[Clark2008]

175. Um... don't know your Bible much, do you?

Luke 12:8, "Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God."

Romans 10: 9, "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."

We can argue whether its dogma or whether its fact, but the point is that the Bible most certainly tells Christians to spread the "good news." Gospel, btw, means "good news."

Duh.

Oh - and one can do good works (and should) in addition to spreading the good news. It's not an either/or proposition.

That is neither here nor there. The overreaction on the part of the OP is the issue. Just say "No, thank you. I don't want to hear it" and move on.

[JanMichael]

244. Not one of the biblical quotes you gave justify Christians

attempting to talk to strangers in public places.

The OP had every right to respond as s/he saw fit for the situation.

[malaise]

253. And I'll do it again

Fuck Miss Manners too.

[JanMichael]

256. you should

I get so goddamned tired of anyone trying to push any belief system off on others--- how ridiculous.

For the record, I started hit "reply all" on obnoxious right wing emails also.

[malaise]

268. If you sit by and allow bullies to violate your space or your rights

they will take every right away from us. I will not sit by and have others invade my space.

[LiberalEsto]

248. Don't know your Miss Manners much?

"Correcting others is a rude action done on purpose." -- Judith Martin, Miss Manners

On Correcting Others

"Can Miss Manners, whose vocation, whose calling, is correcting etiquette transgressions, condemn the practice? Certainly. Miss Manners corrects only upon request. Then she does it from a distance, with no names attached, and no personal relationship, however distant, between the corrector and the correctee. She does not search out errors like a policeman leaping out of a speed trap...

"Even if it be proven that the mistakes of others come from gross ignorance or from maliciousness, it is not the place of anyone except God, their mothers or Miss Manners to bring this to their attention. As dear Erasmus said, "It is part of the highest civility if, while never erring yourself, you ignore the errors of others." Besides, it is a law of nature that he who corrects others will soon do something perfectly awful himself."

From "Miss Manners' Guide To Excruciatingly Correct Behavior By Judith Martin Some Thoughts on the Impulse Rude and the Mannerly Way of Life"
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/05/09/earlyshow/leisure/books/main693835.shtml

[malaise]

252. Hahahahahahaha

:rofl:

[TexasObserver]

259. You are correct!! Why do rude people do so much finger wagging?

To me, this is a common thread among the religious. Just as in the time of Jesus, when he daily railed against such things, the religious tend to be arrogant, judgmental, condescending, ritualistic, and lacking any real sense of the spiritual.

If Jesus ever did come back, the first thing he would do is repudiate 99.99% of those who claim to follow him.

[LiberalEsto]

280. It's because they don't have much of a life

Imagine how bored you'd be if all you had going on in your life were:

--spending hours at church being told you're a miserable sinner
--having to spend hours forcing your beliefs on unwilling strangers
--picking on others about every little thing, like their manners
--living life with your panties in a permanent (starched) bunch


Frankly, I've got much better things to do with my time, and I have a hell of a lot more fun doing them, don't you?

:evilgrin:

[TexasObserver]

285. You'd think that list of things Jesus gave them to do would keep them busy.

Notice that the two guys who were annoying shoppers were not feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the imprisoned, or doing any of the things Jesus told them to do, except proselytizing. And it's important to note that Jesus told them not to annoy people. He said "carry your message, and if they reject it, dust your sandals and head on down the road." Or words to that effect.

He never said "bug these people repeatedly until they relent and do as you wish."

He never said "get mad at those who don't want to hear you and chastise them."

As I've said, the biggest problem with religious people is that they lack any of the qualities Jesus had.

[LiberalEsto]

293. "Busy, busy, busy"

Much wisdom is to be found in Kurt Vonnegut's novel Cat's Cradle:

Busy, busy, busy - words Bokononists whisper when they see an example of how interconnected everything is

Bokononism is the fictional religion practiced by many of the characters in Kurt Vonnegut's novel Cat's Cradle. It is based on living by the untruths that make one happy, called foma. Many of the sacred texts of Bokononism were written in the form of calypsos. The foundation of Bokononism is that all religion, including Bokononism and all its texts, is formed entirely of lies; however, if you believe and adhere to these lies, you will live a happy life.

pool-pah - wrath of God, "shit storm"

Pissant - somebody who thinks he always knows everything better than the others, and finds himself "too smart". A pissant has got to argue with anything that anybody says, no matter what it is about. (description can be found in chapter 59 "Fasten Your Seat Belts")

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat's_Cradle

:evilgrin:

[malaise]

299. I'll order that book

thanks

[LiberalEsto]

303. Vonnegut was a Unitarian Universalist

like me

You'll never catch one of us harassing others by forcing our religion on them.

[TexasObserver]

311. UU - headquartered in Boston.

I've been to several UU church meetings. It's basically similar to going to a meeting of progressives in politics, with a slight spiritual component.

UU is one of the religions I don't find obnoxious, and there aren't many.

[TexasObserver]

300. Cat's Cradle was a great book.

Probably the first of his books I read.

[malaise]

287. I'm having a good laugh

Maybe they should take the beam...

[TexasObserver]

177. Proselytizing IS rude, and the fact that it's "Biblical" doesn't change that.

The Bible is not authority for anything. It's a library of ancient texts, written by men, and much of it was stolen from other cultures and tribes other than the Hebrew.

It's rude to go up to strangers in public as they shop and badger them about YOUR beliefs, whatever they may be. And I don't give a damn that they think the Bible authorizes their conduct. It also tells them to be peacemakers and to sell all they have and give it to the poor. I've yet to see a single "Christian" do that. They should stick to doing what Jesus said about removing the moat from their own eye before trying to remove the speck from their brother's eye.

[Clark2008]

181. What does that have to do with what I said?

Not a damn thing.

Just because there is a very vocal group of psuedo-Christians attempting to run the country without practicing a word Jesus said has NOTHING what-so-ever to do with the rudeness the OP exhibited.

Stick to the topic.

[TexasObserver]

189. Everything. You're guilty of it in this thread.

I know how much you cherish your own personal beliefs. You think you're right and everyone who disagrees with you is wrong. That's fairly typical of the religious.

The more intelligent a person is, the less they cling to ancient beliefs and superstitions called "religion."

[Clark2008]

205. And, I know how wrong you are on a variety of topics.

You make me laugh! :rofl:

Next time you start "preaching" about, I'll let you know (that should be in about two minutes).

[TexasObserver]

213. More ad hominem attacks by you. Do you have anything other than those?

The answer is NO, you don't. Complaining is what you do in every post, and maligning those who don't share your world view is your standard response in every disagreement. I don't know why you are so miserable, but it is not my fault or responsibility.

:rofl:

[malaise]

219. LOL

some responses here are too funny to be taken seriously. I'm not hugging any religious freaks .

[JanMichael]

245. You need to forgive the person you are sarcastically responding

to.

They obviously do not realize you are omniscient.

[Zhade]

367. So you have no real rebuttal. Weak.

You fail.

[spoony]

216. "You think you're right and everyone who disagrees with you is wrong"

What an obnoxiously stupid comment. First of all, if you hold an opinion, and you have any brains at all, you think you're correct. If you didn't, you wouldn't/shouldn't hold that opinion. It follows, then, that you think radically opposing opinions are incorrect. You might as well say, "You're one of those liberals who think all neo-cons are wrong." Now how dumb does that sound?

Second, you're as "guilty" of this as anyone in this thread. You've plastered your high-handed condemnation of these innocent pamphleteers all over this eyesore, and presumably--since you make such a point of "correcting" people--you believe others who don't agree with you are wrong.

[malaise]

222. Innocent pamphleteers?

Do you know their agenda? This is comical. :rofl:

[spoony]

223. Oh, yeah, cartoonish world domination, thanks for saving us

by being a prat. If they'd succeeded in handing you a flyer you would have been immediately, magically converted (and to a fundie, at that) and would have been doomed to live as a zombie also handing out flyers. First you, then the world. You really struck a blow for freedom. You're like Luke Skywalker or Nelson Mandela.

[malaise]

225. You do not know if they are innocent

You do not know their intentions. If you think these people fly to developing countries to proselytize with any innocent intentions you are living in lala land.

[spoony]

230. Yup, like I said, they were supervillains. With flyers.

Maybe you should've killed them. In fact, it was socially irresponsible of you to just let these evil psychopaths, with flyers, escape to unleash their wickedness on other pedestrians...with their...flyers.

[malaise]

232. Don't be simple

This is an unbelievably stupid response. You said they were innocent. I responded that you didn't know that and you don't know that.

He violated my space and I told him to fuck off. If he or any one of them tries it again, I'll do the same thing.

[spoony]

236. Oh, no doubt you'll do the same thing

but hopefully you won't be so brazenly arrogant to come here to brag about it, or you'll get the same response from the sane posters who have called you on your shameful childishness.

To sum up: They were FLYERS you bloody loon. And you don't even know what they SAID.

[malaise]

241. The sane posters agree with me

I know what he said to me. I don't give a flying fuck what's on the flier - do not violate my space and attempt to proselytize or I will respond to your rudeness.

[Dorian Gray]

406. What if they were passing out flyers

to prevent torture?

[malaise]

420. Then they should have stayed in the US

and handed them to their own citizens.

Sp.

[blues90]

270. i guess this then makes you just as guilty , you said so yourself

"Second, you're as "guilty" of this as anyone in this thread"

[spoony]

273. You've remarkably missed the point

OF COURSE I embody what I posted, I'm the one who pointed it out! And I'm the one who said that everyone does it. There's nothing wrong with thinking your opinion is right! I was not chiding that, but the hypocrisy of the poster. Perhaps you missed where they said the other poster was "guilty," of this, which is why I put it in "quotes" eh?

[cali]

297. bullshit. pure unadulterated bullshit.

first of all, there are many different types of intelligence. Secondly, read some Thomas Merton and get back to me.

[snake in the grass]

198. You are wrong there...

the Jesus peddlers are extremely rude and highly offensive. I especially despise the ones who knock on my door with that glazed dumb-complacent look in there eyes trying to convince me their tripe is something new, something I haven't heard a thousand times before. Considering the circumstances, I think the reaction was totally appropriate and I don't care that Christianists are taught this. These people have fucked up so much that I think it's time to make them aware of this.

Matthew 6:6:
But whenever you pray, go into your room, close the door, and pray to your Father who is hidden. And your Father who sees from the hidden place will reward you.....and stay the fuck out of my face!

[malaise]

212. That simple

What I don't get is their unwillingness to acknowledge that they're violating my space.

[KitchenWitch]

390. It may be biblical - but it is also rude, overbearing and arrogant as all get out.

How dare anyone judge me when I am just going about my own personal business.

[baby_mouse]

503. Ironically, publically stating your amusement at someone's behaviour, is, in fact, quite rude.

But I suppose it's okay if you do it.

[Warpy]

Sing it!

Jesus people have no clue they're being rude--and they are--unless we tell them about it.

FWIW, I don't care what people are pushing from politics to restaurant openings to Jesus. If they invade my space, they're asking for it.

[Clark2008]

14. Wow - I'd hate to live in your world.

A stranger can't even approach you without being told off.

Do you need counseling or something.

Really, why so rude? Why do you give THEM the power to piss you off so much? I, myself, don't allow "approachers" the power to alter my day one bit.

[Warpy]

17. Hostility

is invading someone's space and trying to stuff papers into their unwilling hands. It is quite different from being "approached by a stranger."

Hostility. You might want to check your posts a little more carefully.

[petronius]

64. But the OP only describes "approaching' - there is no mention of any 'paper-stuffing'

Frankly, the only hostility I see in the OP is from the poster herself...

[malaise]

68. Read the OP

flier

[petronius]

78. I read it. Read the post I replied to.

There's nothing in your OP about "stuffing into unwilling hands," which would be a physical accosting and deserving of your reaction. All I see in the OP is a description of being approached by strangers, to which you responded with (IMO) undue hostility...

[TexasObserver]

206. No one will kill you faster than a person whose religion you reject.

Isn't it amusing the belligerence of those who claim to be religious? They lack any of the qualities of Jesus, just like the rightwing fundies, but oh, do they want to tell you about what YOU need to do to get right with the Lord!!

As for that particular poster, she's always mad about something, always preaching to someone about something that has her pissed off today. It's Jebus in this thread. It'll be something else in another.

[malaise]

27. To each her own n/t

[malaise]

23. It's that simple

Funny I always tell the Salvation Army people good morning or good afternoon even if I don't throw money in the pan. I will not tolerate rue people shoving paper at me.

[spoony]

237. Woe to the Obama worker who calls on Warpy

[ensho]

12. I agree with you

nt

[WriteDown]

13. Are you so rude when....

A homeless person "invades your space" and asks you for change. Ridiculous. A simple "no thank you" probably would've sufficed. The world needs less negativity, especially toward such trivial things.

edited for spelling

[Clark2008]

16. Thank you.

:hug:

The world needs more hugs and less "fuck yous."

[JanMichael]

246. and yet you post more passive aggresive

"fuck you's" than many other posters.

[TexasObserver]

263. Ha! So true, and so typical.

Try to find a post where she's NOT railing against another poster for having a different opinion than her. It's just one snit fit after another. In this thread alone, she's lambasted everyone who thinks it's NOT ok for religious nuts to annoy you in public places.

[JanMichael]

265. I have been reading this poster for a long time

I am always shocked at how "nice" s/he thinks they are compared to others....weird, eh.

[TexasObserver]

277. When someone lectures others chronically on their "rudeness" ...

... you know the problem is the person doing the lecturing.

This isn't the first time she's gone off on me for having a different opinion from her, and I'm sure it won't be the last. Finger wagging is usually a lifelong failing.

[malaise]

20. I always help homeless people

and my husband and I pay for the education of several poor children.

That does not give some religious freak the right to invade my space.

[WriteDown]

26. You must be a hoot at Christmas parties...

When people are shoving their religion in your face with those darn cookies and songs. I don't consider a simple flier to be shoving of any sort. The girl scouts always try to sell me cookies too with their high pressure tactics and slick sales pitch, hahaha.

[malaise]

29. Girl scouts don't have to try to sell me cookies

I walk up to them and buy cookies. I was a girl scout. I am also an atheist who does not like my space invaded.

[WriteDown]

34. I'm against all cookies...

Against my religion of healthy snacks. I always just give them that "step off" look. :sarcasm:. You do not sound like much of a girl scout. Those girls are usually pretty cheery.

[malaise]

55. You can buy them and give the homeless n/t

[Zhade]

369. Atheism isn't a religion.

NT!

[Clark2008]

187. Why do you automatically assume the person is a "freak" because

he believes in something you don't believe in.

What if people thought you were a "freak" for, I don't know, blowing shit out of proportion?

[JanMichael]

261. wtf are you talking about? How in the world

could you compare a homeless person asking for a physical necessity to someone wanting to talk about Jesus?

[baby_mouse]

422. This isn't comparable at all.

I wish people wouldn't do this sort of thing.

[Sal Minella]

19. When somebody is trying to shove their religion into my life, that in itself gives me the

moral right to be as rude and pushy in response as they are rude and pushy in approach.

Torturing small animals may be "part of their religion" but that doesn't mean I have to put up with it.

[tuckessee]

24. "Torturing animals" Where did you get that?

Are you saying something about kosher food?

[Sal Minella]

67. No. I'm saying something about forms of public behavior that most people consider unacceptable.

[malaise]

25. It's that simple

If you start out being rude, expect a serious response.

[LiberalEsto]

56. I agree with you completely

Just because I'm going grocery shopping doesn't give religious nuts the right to start shoving their beliefs in my face.

By pushing religion on other people, these pushers are making the totally indefensible assumption that their religious beliefs are somehow better than those of their unwilling victims. I consider that much more than just rude. I consider it disrespectful, insensitive and bigoted.

How do they know what my religious beliefs are, and what gives them the right to assume that their beliefs are any better than mine? What gives them the right to assume that I want to discuss religion with them?

I happen to be extremely happy with my own faith, but that doesn't make me want to go out and tell total strangers that they are misguided and deluded unless they join my faith. Nor do I want to get into discussions about it with bigoted morons.

[malaise]

59. The thing is I gave him a look and said nothing when I was entering the supermarket

and he tried the same crap when I was leaving. Enough!

[Sal Minella]

69. Well said.

[Subdivisions]

82. "I find proselytizing very rude..."

Amen to that!

I find proselytizing to be VERY offensive and rude. It's basically someone telling me that I don't live my life right - or according to THEIR beliefs.

Very rude indeed and deserves a like response.

PERIOD!

[Obamanaut]

170. I had a person accost me in a mall awhile back, with the question

"Are you saved?" I responded with my own question "Do I look like a rare coin or baseball card?"

Interestingly (to me, anyway) the person broke off the conversation and departed.

So, I don't think you were rude.

[scarletwoman]

176. Very good riposte! I'll remember that one -- thanks! (nt)

[Clark2008]

178. That's far less rude than the OP.

See - you can say stuff like that with humor that doesn't dehumanize the "approacher."

[TexasObserver]

186. The OP is not rude, but your incessant comments about the OP are rude.

See, that's what is wrong with the arrogantly religious. You lack any of the qualities Jesus preached about, but you call "rude" an OP who merely told someone who approached him in a public place to talk about THEIR ill conceived beliefs to buzz off.

You're the rude person here. You are angered that someone rejects your beliefs, and you're letting everyone know about it. What happened to "dust off your shoes and get the hell outta there" like Jesus told you to do when someone doesn't want to hear your spiel?

You see, you may call yourself a "Christian" but there's no Jesus in your game. You're just another person who thinks their view of religion is right, and you're going to tell everyone whether they want to hear it or not.

[malaise]

190. Fundies define everything

they are always right. :shrug:

[Clark2008]

192. And this post shows more of what you don't know (which is a lot)

So, let me set something straight: I'm not arrogantly religious. Heck, I'm not a church-goer at all. But, I obviously share more of the qualities that Jesus taught because I don't go around yelling, "fuck you," at strangers who approach me about any topic. That's rude and inconsistant with the peaceful demeanor Jesus exuded.

I am not angered that someone rejects my beliefs - my first husband is Muslim and my current husband is Jewish. I obviously don't have a problem with someone believing something different than I (blows your little mind, doesn't it?)

FWIW, most of your posts - about a variety of topics other than this - are usually quite wrong and VERY misinformed. I actually cringe when I read your posts because you're quite smug, judgmental and, frankly, kind of vapid.

[TexasObserver]

195. You never tire of preaching, do you?

Is that because no one in real life pays any attention to what you say? I suspect so.

You do love to wag that finger and chide, don't you? I can't imagine a topic on which I need your advice, unless it's how to be easily and frequently offended.

[Clark2008]

204. Me? Preach. That's rich!!

Have you read your posts on this board or do you sleep-type?

You are one of the most smug, "preachy" and judgmental posters on DU. You expect everyone to take what you say as gospel (no pun intended) when you are so wrong in many cases.

[TexasObserver]

207. Yes, you. That's factual.

You're doing it now.

Unlike your husband, I don't have to care what you think, and I don't, especially about religion or me. Do you ever post anything but personal attacks on other posters for disagreeing with you?

[Clark2008]

211. Um... hey pot... the kettle is black.

I wasn't the one who lobbed the first personal attack against you.

The OP, by writing about his/her experience, invited comment. I commented. You showed up and started, yes, "preaching" to me and lobbing personal indictments against me - all while ASSUMING you knew the first damn thing about me. I'm not a fundie. I'm not particularly religious. I'm very religious tolerant, considering my personal relationships, and I, above all, don't yell juvenile curse words to perfect strangers in front of stores where there may be children present.

I do, however, have a most intelligent brain and can stick to the topic at hand. Which is this: the OP doesn't have to listen to their preaching, but would it have hurt him/her to be less rude?

[malaise]

224. The Fundie hustlers were rude

I told one to fuck off. Get over it.

sp.

[Zhade]

372. "I obviously share more of the qualities that Jesus taught" ARROGANCE.

NT!

[baby_mouse]

424. "I obviously share more of the qualities that Jesus taught "

You know, you're getting to be even more of a public nuisance than the one the OP was annoyed with.

[malaise]

426. Isn't that the truth

:D

[spoony]

231. How is saying "go fight in Iraq" in any way a rational response

(since you lot like the idea of being rational responders, I've heard) to what happened?

[Zhade]

371. Arrogance. You NAILED it.

NT!

[malaise]

188. That's brilliant

One of my friends was asked if she was born again and she responded that her head was now way too big for her mother's birth passage.

[JeanGrey]

513. But they didn't cuss you. It wasn't necessary.

[Kokonoe]

18. What did the flier say?

Anyway, its was probably just the repukes desperate for cash they cannot steal.

[malaise]

30. I didn't take it so I don't know

or care.

[greenbriar]

36. What kind of jobs are there in Jamaica?

I would move there tomorrow if I could

[malaise]

43. What are you looking for

Send me a PM

[aquaman]

22. You must feel proud.......

Of your grown-up response. What are you, 12 years old?

[Lars39]

28. My fundy BIL stopped being an overseas SB missionary

and got a tailor made cushy job at the megachurch where they have their home. The cushy job? Organizing missionary trips to different countries for the congregation. Spain one week, India the next, Brazil the week after, etc. Maybe a week or so in between trips, sometimes not. Foreign missionary trips seem to be the newest fad. His megachurch doesn't do jack to support the poor and needy in its own community. :puke:

[scarletwoman]

31. Good for you! Fuck those sanctimonious arrogant assholes.

And fuck the DUers on this thread who are taking you to task for your honest reaction to bullshit.

:loveya:
sw

[malaise]

47. LOL

You get it :hi:

[spoony]

234. Again, what about "go fight in Iraq" is an "honest reaction to bullshit"

It was a poorly delivered non-sequitur, if anything.

[malaise]

283. Clearly they have time and should occupy it for

Bushco's great crusade rather than harass people in Jamaica.

[spoony]

298. Still a huge, gaping logical chasm

There's nothing indicating that they were in support of the war. It was truly a poor comeback. Your thought processes seem impaired to me.

[malaise]

313. Clearly I'm in good company here

:shrug:

[dendrobium]

525. Which plaza was this?

Jamaica is supposed to have the most churches per capita in the World - a lot of good that has done us.:eyes:
Why would missionaries feel the need to spread the word here? Jamaica is already crawling with the hyper-religious.

[malaise]

527. Which is why I was so pissed

Sovereign

[Zhade]

373. Hear, hear!

NT!

[malaise]

378. It's uncomplicated n/t

[awoke_in_2003]

32. "I went to my supermarket yesterday"

Was John McCain there? :)

[malaise]

70. Great response

He may have been in the cheese section. :rofl:

[awoke_in_2003]

77. I don't think he will go to a supermarket again

the last one he was in had Samarai applesauce.

[greenbriar]

33. Where in Jamaica are you? I LOVE Jamaica

I would live there if I could. It is beautiful

[malaise]

74. I'm in St Andrew

uptown Kingston

[mrreowwr_kittty]

35. I don't know why you're getting so much flack for this. You weren't that rude to them.

You said "fuck" but I seriously doubt they'll die from that. I'm so damn sick of religious people who feel perfectly entitled to get all up in people's faces with their superstitious nonsense but at the same time demand to be protected from any kind of criticism. Fuck them. And I'll start being nicer to them when they stop trying to impose their whacky beliefs on everyone via the law. They're the ones trying to ban abortion and make contraception unavailable, along with forcing their agenda on the school system.

[scarletwoman]

40. I just had a weird visual fantasy wherein saying "fuck" to a fundy causes them to shrivel up like

putting salt on a leech, or like Dorothy throwing water on the wicked witch in the Wizard of Oz.

Yes, I am a very bad person... :spank:

sw

[malaise]

45. I understand

Fundies can violate all our rights but we must be polite because they're only promoting Jesus - count me out.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

52. how did these 'fundies' violate your rights?

hmmmm...i would imagine you cannot answer that.

sP

[scarletwoman]

58. The right to not have someone trying to push bullshit in your face.

"Fuck off" is exactly the correct response.

sw

[ProdigalJunkMail]

61. wrong...in a public square people have every right

to approach you and speak with/to you...you have the right to tell them to stop...true. but 'fuck off' is never the right response to someone who accosts you on a street...

but hey, the hate seems to be working for you and the OP so keep going with that until it eats you alive.

sP

[Sal Minella]

76. Do I have to take special classes to learn to perceive "annoyance" as "hate?"

[malaise]

99. Apparently

:rofl:

[ProdigalJunkMail]

113. so...if you 'hated' these people for what they were doing

how much farther would you have gone...assuming that this is not a hate filled rant of yours.

sP

[ProdigalJunkMail]

110. telling someone to 'fuck off' because they

'invade your privacy' for a total of about 5 seconds is pretty indicative in this case. 'fuck off' is not the words a person would choose unless desirous of displaying 'hate' in a given situation.

sP

[Bluenorthwest]

227. Some folks say fuck for the fuck of it

In your small world, indoctriated and edited, perhaps the use of 'fuck off' is reserved for expressions of hate, but in mine and many worlds, 'tis just another word, so fuck off, you fucker, who the fuck do you think you are with your posing judgementalism?
It's a fuck of a thing that you fucking think you can fuck with other people's vocabulary according to your fucking whim.
You have issues around language that indictate much repressed resentment and anger. Your postings virtually seeth with such emotions.

[malaise]

229. Couldn't say it better n/t

[ProdigalJunkMail]

238. you take umbrage with MY use of language

and yet give a pass to the OP? interesting...and by the by...it wasn't just the 'fuck off' but the sheer relish with which it was reported that give the clues here...

so...fuck off :-)

sP

[AllieB]

83. If it was in front of a supermarket, it was probably private property.

I wonder how the owner of the market would feel about potentially losing business because his/her patrons are being harassed by trespassers.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

108. if it was indeed on private property

then informing the owner and letting them make the decision would have been the appropriate thing to do...and the owner would have every right to ask them to leave...or allow them to stay.

sP

[mitchtv]

140. Fundies? in Jamaica?

that's hate incarnate. that line has been crossed already. One of the hatingest places in the world thanks to Christinsanity. thay are a virus.

[malaise]

144. Bingo n/t

[Clark2008]

199. That has been my point throughout this entire thread.

I don't like being proselyted to by a bunch of fundies, either, but rather than yelling juvenile invectives to them - I'd do one of two things: either say, "no thank you, I don't want to hear this" and move on OR I'd engage them in a conversation about why some of what's done in their name is the exact opposite of what Jesus preached. I'd educate them.

My issue isn't whether the OP has the right not to listen - she/he does absolutely have the right not to have to stand there and listen. My issue is the absolutely childishness of his/her response with it's clear intent on dehumanizing someone who doesn't believe as she/he does.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

217. confronting with facts and logic would have had much

more impact...the reaction the OP gives just cements their views even further...

sP

[Riktor]

376. That is doubtful

When you are speaking to the devout, you are speaking to people who have constructed a world-view on faith, which is defined as being belief independent of fact.

No amount of fact is likely to convince the devout that their world-view is fundamentally flawed, especially when you consider the enormous amount of cognitive and financial capital they have already invested in maintaining this world-view. Furthermore, for them to abandon their position means that they will have to sacrifice what Abraham Maslow contended were important human needs: the need to affiliate and the need for security. To abandon their faith would imply that they would need to look elsewhere to fulfill those needs, which would invariably require a major reinvestment of cognitive and financial capital.

In the case described in the OP, the devout were willing to put their lives - their jobs - on hold to fly to another country to convince complete strangers to adhere to their world-view. While I would love to think otherwise, facts and logic aren't likely to be of much use when debating these folks.

[Riktor]

362. I hope this will end this senseless sniping:

In seeking converts, it is clear the missionaries maintain anyone not submitting to their prescribed dogma is morally inferior. Furthermore, they have the audacity to "back-up" this claim with a book, a collection of stories of dubious historical accuracy. A book they claim is the Word of God because, well, it says so in the book.

"Educating them" is likely to be an exercise in futility. At this point, they've invested so much cognitive capital into adopting their religion's world view that no chance encounter with a non-believer is going to change their mind. Trust me, I lived with an Evangelical for a year in college. I repeatedly informed him I didn't share his enthusiasm for the Big Man Upstairs and repeatedly requested he not proselytize to me. When this failed, I began battling him on his beliefs, which resulted with him proclaiming the Devil was speaking through me in an attempt to tempt him away from the "Right Path". Finally, I told him to fuck off or I'd file a formal complaint with the Office of Student Affairs, in which I would request he be denied university housing. He finally shut up.

This reaction may very well have been, as you described, "childish". In fact, I would go as far as to say it was even mean-spirited. On the other hand, I was living in a hostile environment. I spent the better part of a whole year with my dorm closed and locked out of fear that asshat would make himself comfortable in my living space.

Regardless of the missionaries' intentions, their practice of proselytizing is hostile. They are interrupting people's daily routines to inform said people they are, in fact, going to a place of eternal suffering because they jack off or eat meat on Friday. One minute, the author of the OP is buying groceries for her family. The next minute, there's somebody shoving paper in her face, telling her that if she doesn't change her life she's going to hell.

You cannot expect everyone to just turn the other cheek and walk away from such a public character assassination. The way I look at it, the author of the OP was/is pissed off, and I'd say she is rightfully so. I won't go as far as to defend her handling of the situation, but I could see myself doing the same thing if I didn't make a conscious effort to restrain myself. For that reason, I cannot share in the indignation espoused against the author. I am human, I make mistakes, I get pissed off... sometimes very easily.

[malaise]

375. The bottom line is that at some point

you will have no choice but to tell them to fuck off so do it early and spare yourself the invasion of space.

Great post.

[Zhade]

377. You make great points. Shame the religious snipers here won't heed them.

That's because they don't understand proselytizing is a *bad* thing.

[baby_mouse]

416. Well said!

:applause:

[Retired AF Dem]

202. DU is full of little piss ants

full of hate. I love DU but I swear there are times there isn't one bit of difference between DU and FR.

[TexasObserver]

226. True, and most of them are religious, just like at that other place.

In this thread, the posts that look like they come from FR are the ones castigating the OP.

Enlightened people don't need the crutch of superstition to face life.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

239. and reasonable liberals don't need to

tell people to 'fuck off' just to get them to leave them alone...but hey...

sP

[TexasObserver]

243. You clearly don't know much about reasonable liberals.

Telling an annoying religious person to FUCK OFF is part of being a good liberal.

You're just another pissed off religious person, doing what religious persons do: wail when someone rejects your fairy tale approach to life.

The proselytizers bugged the OP at the store, coming and going. She told them to FUCK OFF, which is exactly what they need to hear. They're annoying, arrogant, intrusive, uneducated boors, and someone needs to tell them they are not welcome.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

247. you seem to have missed the mark quite badly with this one

telling someone to fuck off is not a part of being a good anything. i would have zero problem with malaise telling them to leave her alone, educating them about Xenu or any other 'fairy tale' being, walking away, laughing or just about any other response. the problem with fuck off is two-fold...one, anyone looking on see a bitter ass reacting to people who are simply talking to her...two, it is exactly what these street-preachers want to hear. it validates them, their beliefs and their mission and they can step back from that encounter with the simple thought that they are in the right place talking to the right people...

and for you to refer to religious people as weak believers in fairy tales indicates that you would willing alienate about 70% of the democratic party because of their fairy tale beliefs...liberal or not...

sP

[TexasObserver]

254. No, I'm dead on. You're lost in your own delusions, however.

If you want to invite these annoying, proselytizing religious people over for tea, that's your choice.

If someone else wants to tell them to FUCK OFF, that's their business, not yours.

You're mad because the OP didn't do as you think is appropriate, because you're a judgmental person who thinks it is your right to lecture others on how they could be more like you.

[malaise]

255. And that's the plain truth n/t

[ProdigalJunkMail]

262. the thing is that i am not mad...

i am sad for the state of the world and this board (and the people it purports to represent) that 'fuck off' is ever the correct response to people who are just espousing view contrary to yours (regardless of the religious tone). And you're right, it would normally not be my business, by malaise came here seeking something from this board and as a long time member of this board i decided to chime in and if you don't like differing opinions to yours perhaps instead of telling people to mind their own business on a discussion board, you should go hide somewhere nice and isolated so you don't have to read things you don't like anymore...i never told malaise that she can't speak that way...just that it is depressing. and yes, i would love for people to have a little more decorous disagreements of opinion instead of hurling obscenities...i think the rancor in debate is much of our problem...and indicative of a poison in our society...and if you want to believe that religion is that poison, then GREAT! hell yeah, let's talk about it...but i would prefer to discuss it instead of being told i am uneducated and unable to relate and to fuck off and mind my own business...

and speaking of being judgmental...pot...meet kettle...

sP

[TexasObserver]

267. I don't subscribe to that racist line of thought.

You uber religious types seem to use that saying a great deal. Don't you know that we liberals don't approve of or repeat such things? Get rid of that "pot calling the kettle black" meme once and for all. It's disgusting, and makes you sound like a racist, even if you're not one.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

269. racist? in what way?

are you not aware that this saying originated due to the fact that seasoned cast iron cookware is often black in color? for you to even insinuate a racist overtone to that saying is laughable...even if i AM one...

sP

[TexasObserver]

275. "Pot calling the kettle black" is racist.

If you didn't know that, today's day the day you found out.

[spoony]

279. Again, please say you're joking.

You can't possibly be this dim.

[fascisthunter]

441. coming from you, that's funny

[spoony]

452. You are?

Have me met? You speak altogether too familiarly with me.

[baby_mouse]

394. Do you think any sentence containing the word "black" is racist?

[TexasObserver]

396. What an asinine comment. Of course not.

If you have to have it explained, explaining it won't help you understand it.

Find a black person. Ask him or her.

Do you know any black people?

[baby_mouse]

399. Yes, I do know black people. But why should they tell me...

... and not you?

[TexasObserver]

402. Because you'll learn it better coming from them.

You don't strike me as a fast learner, and since you haven't yet figured out what's wrong with it, you're probably going to need someone to personally help you understand it.

Now, if you think you're going to keep acting dumb, and I'm going to humor you, guess again. Piss off.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

404. i know black people...

i work with them...go to church with them...play sports with them...dine with them...babysit their kids...we do life together...some of them live in the suburbs...some of them live in the city (ATL). I know several who use this phrase when the proper time strikes. And just to humor you, I have called two of my black friends and emailed another (the email went to CA so I doubt I will get a response this early) and guess what...so far neither has thought that is was a racist statement...

the pot and kettle phrase is about sameness...not about race. it is about saying that, though you don't see it, you are the same thing you are railing against. the only thing that someone could possibly find racist in there is that the word black is used (just as the poster above is suggesting to you). the only way someone could view that statement as racist is to be uber-sensitive to the point of finding race in everything.

So, please regale us with you in depth knowledge of why this is racist. I have check with the black people...they aren't buying it. And unless you CAN answer this question, I would suggest you are just pulling things out of your ass.

TO, Why is 'the pot calling the kettle black' a racist phrase?

I wait with bated-breath for your answer.

sP

[baby_mouse]

405. Pf.

[baby_mouse]

407. feh.

[Dorian Gray]

409. Can you explain just how in the name of holy hell

that "The Pot calling the kettle black" is a racist comment. I know Omarosa said it was on The Apprentice, but I've never heard from any other "authority" on the subject.

[baby_mouse]

411. It isn't racist, and, no the poster can't, all they can do is say "talk to black people". NT

[malaise]

418. No it's more about old coal stoves

since they both got very dirty.

[Obamanaut]

423. Here are a couple of items from a google search re "pot calling..."

There are many, many others pretty much along the same line.

http://www.goenglish.com/ThePotCallingTheKettleBlack.asp

The Pot Calling The Kettle Black ( to say something about someone else which is actually true of you yourself ... )
<more examples at link>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot_calling_the_kettle_black

The phrase "Pot calling the kettle black" is an idiom, used to accuse another speaker of hypocrisy, in that the speaker disparages the subject for a fault or negative behavior that could equally be applied to him or her, though there is an alternative interpretation. In former times cast iron pots and kettles were quickly blackened from the soot of the fire. The pot would then be hypocritical to insult the kettle's colour, since both are black with soot. When used in debate, the "pot calling the kettle black" may be illogical, as it is a form of the argument ad hominem.
<more at link>

edited to correct subject line

[TexasObserver]

445. The language evolves, as do its terms and phrases.

Just because the phrase began 300-400 years ago in one context does not mean it is limited to that meaning today. "Gay" doesn't mean today what it did 50 years ago. "Thread" has an entirely different meaning today that doesn't have anything to do with its original meaning.

The saying "the pot calling the kettle black" has two important components. Yes, it makes the point that the pot has no basis to criticize the kettle, because the pot is also black. But it has a second component. That is the color. In today's world, where people do not have black pots or pans, because they cook with stainless, the saying is yet another example of "black" being used in a negative way.

I've heard blacks complain about the use of that phrase many times, but then, I probably know blacks in America better than most. The phrase condemns as bad blackness, irrespective of the original basis of the saying.

For those doubters, I highly recommend that you use the saying as often as you can in the presence of black people, preferably in the inner city of a large urban area. See how that works out for you.

[Obamanaut]

453. Perhaps you might be more comfortable around people who

are not exactly like you if you remained totally silent. But then, you may never speak again.

[malaise]

460. While I agree with you re the negative connotation of black

in this instance I disagree. I use the phrase with regularity to expose hypocrites.

[Marrah_G]

493. Umm no it isn't............you are sadly mistaken.

[spoony]

276. Have you lost your mind or are you having a laugh?

I'm truly tempted to think you're joking, as almost anyone saying something that clueless must surely be joking. But you've said such bizarre things in this thread I can't be certain and, indeed, you may well be serious.

[malaise]

282. You're entitled to your opinions

and so am I.

[Zhade]

374. You WISH it were hate, so you can keep playing the victimization card.

NT!

[ProdigalJunkMail]

393. what victimization card?

are you responding to the right post? or are you just out for a little tangle on a Saturday night?

geez...

sP

[Dorian Gray]

408. Since when is that a right?

We have bullshit pushed into our faces every time we leave the stinking house or turn the television on.

Now, of course, prosthelytizers can be major annoying. Try going to Times Square. Or riding the NYC subway. But it's simple to just tune the crazies out or walk away. No harm, no foul.

[malaise]

415. Silence is often consent

I do not consent

[TexasObserver]

220. It comes down to this: uber religious people think it's their RIGHT to annoy you.

They think they are serving a higher purpose, one that gives them license to be annoying in public places to strangers. Anyone who would stand in front of a store and try to sell their religious beliefs is someone I KNOW I don't want to hear from. The fact that they think they've found the true way and want to share it tells me all I need to know to reject whatever nonsense they plan on telling me.

If they don't want to hear "fuck you" on occasion, they shouldn't be annoying pests to strangers in public places.

[dysfunctional press]

354. actually- they think it's their RESPONSIBILITY to annoy you.

i.e. "save your soul" :eyes:

[DemoTex]

37. Read Carl Sandburg's "To A Contemporary Bunkshooter" (Chicago Poems)

TO A CONTEMPORARY BUNKSHOOTER

You come along. . . tearing your shirt. . . yelling about
Jesus.
Where do you get that stuff?
What do you know about Jesus?
Jesus had a way of talking soft and outside of a few
bankers and higher-ups among the con men of Jerusalem
everybody liked to have this Jesus around because
he never made any fake passes and everything
he said went and he helped the sick and gave the
people hope.


You come along squirting words at us, shaking your fist
and calling us all damn fools so fierce the froth slobbers
over your lips. . . always blabbing we're all
going to hell straight off and you know all about it.


I've read Jesus' words. I know what he said. You don't
throw any scare into me. I've got your number. I
know how much you know about Jesus.
He never came near clean people or dirty people but
they felt cleaner because he came along. It was your
crowd of bankers and business men and lawyers
hired the sluggers and murderers who put Jesus out
of the running.


I say the same bunch backing you nailed the nails into
the hands of this Jesus of Nazareth. He had lined
up against him the same crooks and strong-arm men
now lined up with you paying your way.

This Jesus was good to look at, smelled good, listened
good. He threw out something fresh and beautiful
from the skin of his body and the touch of his hands
wherever he passed along.
You slimy bunkshooter, you put a smut on every human
blossom in reach of your rotten breath belching
about hell-fire and hiccupping about this Man who
lived a clean life in Galilee.

When are you going to quit making the carpenters build
emergency hospitals for women and girls driven
crazy with wrecked nerves from your gibberish about
Jesus--I put it to you again: Where do you get that
stuff; what do you know about Jesus?


Go ahead and bust all the chairs you want to. Smash
a whole wagon load of furniture at every performance.
Turn sixty somersaults and stand on your
nutty head. If it wasn't for the way you scare the
women and kids I'd feel sorry for you and pass the hat.
I like to watch a good four-flusher work, but not when
he starts people puking and calling for the doctors.
I like a man that's got nerve and can pull off a great
original performance, but you--you're only a bug-
house peddler of second-hand gospel--you're only
shoving out a phoney imitation of the goods this
Jesus wanted free as air and sunlight.

You tell people living in shanties Jesus is going to fix it
up all right with them by giving them mansions in
the skies after they're dead and the worms have
eaten 'em.
You tell $6 a week department store girls all they need
is Jesus; you take a steel trust wop, dead without
having lived, gray and shrunken at forty years of
age, and you tell him to look at Jesus on the cross
and he'll be all right.
You tell poor people they don't need any more money
on pay day and even if it's fierce to be out of a job,
Jesus'll fix that up all right, all right--all they gotta
do is take Jesus the way you say.
I'm telling you Jesus wouldn't stand for the stuff you're
handing out. Jesus played it different. The bankers
and lawyers of Jerusalem got their sluggers and
murderers to go after Jesus just because Jesus
wouldn't play their game. He didn't sit in with
the big thieves.

I don't want a lot of gab from a bunkshooter in my religion.
I won't take my religion from any man who never works
except with his mouth and never cherishes any memory
except the face of the woman on the American
silver dollar.

I ask you to come through and show me where you're
pouring out the blood of your life.

I've been to this suburb of Jerusalem they call Golgotha,
where they nailed Him, and I know if the story is
straight it was real blood ran from His hands and
the nail-holes, and it was real blood spurted in red
drops where the spear of the Roman soldier rammed
in between the ribs of this Jesus of Nazareth.


http://carl-sandburg.com/to_a_contemporary_bunkshooter.htm

[malaise]

57. Brilliant

Thanks. I'm tempted to print out Mark Twain's 'Letters from Earth' and give them, but I fear those are way to deep for Fundie morons.

[fla nocount]

71. Beat me to the punch, that piece is fairly obtuse.

It's interesting that his daughters wouldn't allow it published until after THEY were dead.

[DemoTex]

72. Short Mark Twain quote for the fundies (short enough to memorize):

I bring you the stately matron named Christendom, returning bedraggled, besmirched, and dishonored, from pirate raids in Kiao-Chou, Manchuria, South Africa, and the Phillipines, with her soul full of meanness, her pocket full of boodle, and her mouth full of pious hypocrisies. Give her soap and towel, but hide the looking glass.

-- Mark Twain, speech, "A Salutation from the 19th to the 20th Century" (December 31, 1900)

[malaise]

100. Nice

Those are big words for Fundies :D

[fla nocount]

62. Now that's powerful, I never knew it existed.

That's on a par with M. Twain's "Letters From the Earth".

[TexasObserver]

233. Indeed. There isn't much Jesus in religion.

Look at this thread. There is not a single person attacking the OP who exhibits any of the qualities Jesus preached about. They're judgmental. They're ritualistic. They don't focus on themselves, but on the "sins" they see in others.

All these proselytizers should stop posting, go read what Jesus said about trying to remove the speck from their brother's eye while they have a log in their own eye, and then spend some time doing the real work Jesus told them to do.

How many of the outraged religious types on this thread do you suppose have ever been to visit anyone in prison? Jesus told them to do it, and almost none of them do. But, oh boy, will they bend your ear telling you HOW DARE YOU?!!

[Caretha]

361. Nuff said

Brilliant. All the rest of the nail biters & hair pullers = fail

[NNN0LHI]

38. well said mums

[LeftyMom]

39. Good for you.

Proselytizing is inherently rude, and apparently they need directness to get the message that it's completely unwelcome.

They're probably putting in a minimal amount of "mission work" so they can ding their church for their vacation or at least write it off.

[malaise]

105. Reminds me of the WB consultant who came to my office

in beach shorts (with a towel on his shoulder)a few years back for data on Caribbean territories. He told me someone recommended me and I asked him how much they were paying him to come to my office to collect my data for free so that he could head to the beach. I told him if he was prepared to share the consultancy with me 50-50, he could return for the data. I'm still waiting for him to return. :D I heard the group collect US$100,000 each. In plain Jamaican, not a rass.

[Kickin_Donkey]

41. No pat on the back from me ...

which is what you want, otherwise you wouldn't have posted it.

I see nothing righteous about your actions, just pure poison.

I'm an atheist and I loathe fundamentalist, evangelical Christian proselytizers, but I can't find it in myself to act with such mean-spiritedness.

Your reaction was so over the top. All you had to to was say no thanks. As you said in this very thread, to each his own.

This thread is an example of the coarseness of DU these days -- such disdain for fellow DUers.

Don't cry when karma's a bitch.

[scarletwoman]

44. An "atheist" invoking "karma"? That's rich.

And what does the OP have to do with "fellow DUers"? She's talking about an encounter in her real life.

Religious proselityzers are parasites, they deserve no more respect than cancer cells do.

sw

[malaise]

49. Hahahhaha

:rofl:

[jakem]

183. Um.. Karma has zero to do with God...

just clarifying.

[malaise]

48. Whatever n/t

[fla nocount]

46. I don't always act out as you did.

But sometimes I do. Demoralizing the fundies can sometimes turn their lives around and make them have second thoughts about proselytizing tales from the Brothers Grimm to a perfect stranger. I don't go for the verbal assault but might answer the door to the Jehovah Witnesses in the buff and tell them I'm already churched before giving them the BushCo Satan salute. Actually, I only brush them off when I'm trying to accomplish something, like shop or take a shower, otherwise I might have some good natured fun with them before asking them if our differences keep them for loving me as I love them. Dumbfounds them every time and I've yet to get an answer except their backs as they walk away.

[malaise]

50. When I was young, my room-mates and I would

welcome the Jehovah's Witness lady and terrorize her with leftist propaganda until she ran from the house. :D

[scarletwoman]

54. Love it! (nt)

[Riktor]

366. Funny you should bring that up...

My grandfather is a devout Catholic. Don't let that fool you, he's actually one of the best human beings I've ever met. He came back from World War II an ardent pacifist and has been so ever since, he marched for civil rights in the 1960s, he has donated over eight gallons of blood over the course of his life... a really terrific liberal, who happens to be a very devout, very nonjudgmental Catholic.

Anyway, he always got a kick out of the Jehovah's Witnesses who went door-to-door around his neighborhood. He'd invite them in, give them some food, coffee, whatever. The whole time they'd be telling him "the world is in such a deplorable state", that hate and sin have taken over. Then, just as they'd said their peace, grampa would deliver the deathblow:

"Well, what are you doing to make it better?"

[malaise]

379. My mother was an obsessed Catholic as well

and she accepted my atheism.

Love your grandpa. :D

[ProdigalJunkMail]

51. how sad to be someone so filled with hate

that you cannot just say, "no thanks." you are the joke here and the ass...not the people you verbally assaulted.

sP

[malaise]

60. Hate?

Hahahahhaha :rofl:

[ProdigalJunkMail]

63. yep...you...hate

and i am not surprised that you cannot see it...typical.

sP

[malaise]

66. Whatever n/t

[Sal Minella]

81. PJM -- does being sniffily dismissive and judgmental make you feel superior?

[conscious evolution]

97. I'm curious

Why do you feel being judgemental is so bad?

[ProdigalJunkMail]

106. all i did was point out that the OP is eaten up with hate

and it is spilling out onto people that don't deserve it...was not dismissive at all...sad, as a point of fact.

sP

[scarletwoman]

131. Just who the fuck do you think you are? I mean really. "Eaten up with hate"?!?!

Why don't you just back off and go away, Dr. Phil. :eyes:

[malaise]

142. Comic relief

Hate is a waste of time and energy.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

184. then why display it so openly? i mean

you lash out at people you don't even know...funny that you disparage hate when you show it so well...

sP

[ProdigalJunkMail]

180. just calling it as i see it

and yes, telling someone to fuck off just because they dared to speak to you about religion is a pretty hateful and hate filled thing to do. why not tell the OP to back off? they are the ones who cannot bear to have their fragile sensibilities confronted without lashing out...

sP

[scarletwoman]

193. Maybe this will help: I place religious proselityzers on a par with child molesters and rapists.

I see absolutely no reason why they should be treated with anything but contempt. They should consider themselves lucky if they are merely shunned.

Does that clear things up for you?

sw

[Clark2008]

208. Wow. I hope you're never on a jury.

That is a bit much, don't you think?

You can ask a proselityzer to go away - but a child doesn't have the power or the stamina to refuse Uncle Ernie's inappropriate advances. Quite a whole 'nother can of worms in my mind.

Wow. Just wow.

[TexasObserver]

214. Well, there is a lot of overlap!

There is a lot of overlap etween the uber religious proselytizers and child molestation. That's simply a fact of life. Religions tend to warp the emotional and mental framework of a person, since most rely heavily on guilt, shame, and treating sex as dirty. The damage is usually done before the person reaches adulthood, often before they reach puberty.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

215. nope...well it clears up what you think but...

if you equate those two classes of people you have a very warped view of the world...assuming that all proselytizers are child molesters or rapist (or even putting them in the same group) is a despicable thing to do...on par with saying that all atheists are mass murderers because of what Stalin did...or all Germans are murders because of what Hitler did...and on and on and on...

sP

[Snarkturian Clone]

274. What I don't understand is

how do you type with that straight jacket on? Voice-recognition software?

[Retired AF Dem]

348. So you would be willing to kill

a misguided religious person? Sick.

[baby_mouse]

419. Well, there are enough of them at genuinely ARE child molesters and rapists, for sure.

But it might be a bit OTT to chuck 'em all in that bucket.

[scarletwoman]

451. My point is, they are all predators acting out of varying degrees of psychological malfunction.

I hope that clarifies what I meant.

sw

[Fumesucker]

359. How's your sex life?

Are you getting any?

Do you think my inquiry is rude?

Does it deserve to be politely dismissed?

Or is it any of my fuckin' business?

[Caretha]

363. Hmm....

Back off!!? Fuck off!!?.....nope, Fuck off says it much better....lol. George Carlin would laugh his ass off at you. Now that made me smile, just thinkin' about his humor and take on life. :)

[baby_mouse]

400. I don't think you have the privileged access to the OP's thoughts that you think you do. NT

[baby_mouse]

417. Oh, don't give yourself airs!

As if you KNOW the OP.

[glowing]

53. I do think its a bit disgusting how American Christian churches run around

the world promoting Jesus.. Some people are just fine with their own religion and their own beleifs. I've never understood how so many Christians are hung up on the "word of God" who was written by men... if they spent more time doing the "red" things and less time telling the rest of the world that they are evil and going to hell, while doing the most hypocritical things, then perhaps people would convert or at least be willing to listen.

I'm was brought up with a "Christian" background.. but I really beleive many roads lead to enlightenment and peaceful living. Does anyone really believe Bush is a Christian.. kinda gives any one who is a bad name.

[malaise]

65. Not just Americans

A young Korean came up to me on campus recently and asked me if I knew what Paradise was about. I told him to read Milton - Paradise Lost. When he made the mistake to start the Jesus talk, I asked him to show me an ID or I'd call security. He ran from our campus paradise. :D

[Codeine]

84. Just Americans, eh?

Sorry to break it to you, but missionaries come from all over the world.

[glowing]

139. Well, I've never met a foreign missionary.. but do know of American one's..

I'm sure they are every where.... and they are all just as annoying.. similar to the Jehova Witnesses who keep appearing in my neighborhood.

[Sanctified]

73. After reading this I am trying to picture who was the Ugly American. N/T

[davsand]

75. I do not understand what drives people to evangelize.

I know there is something someplace in the Bible about giving witness to your faith (recruitment, in other words...) but WHY are people so driven to do this? It isn't LIKE they get a toaster oven or a first class seat on the way to heaven...

As for dealing with folks who are trying to tell me I'm gonna burn in hell or even just folks who want to tell me my pagan ways are not cool with their personal version of God, well I just tell them no thanks and walk away. If they persist I get a little louder about it. If it goes beyond those initial exchanges I'll make a scene. I'm sick to death of it, but I refuse to drive the level of discourse any further into insanity than it already is.

Having said that, I think how you respond to this stuff is every bit as personal as what your religion actually IS.

YMMV.



Laura

[Dreamer Tatum]

80. Imagine the odds of assholes meeting one another like that

Sounds like the three of you should form a club.

[scarletwoman]

86. One person is minding their own business, the other two are not.

Your asshole detection meter isn't functioning properly -- perhaps it's on overload from being in your proximity for too long.

[Dreamer Tatum]

92. One posted the story on the web, looking for validation...

...and there you have it.

[NeedleCast]

94. Yup, Exactly

[scarletwoman]

104. Malaise, unlike you, is a long time DUer and considered a friend by many.

Religious proselityzers are assholes by definition, just as rightwingers are. Recounting confrontations with assholes is a venerable DU tradition.

[NeedleCast]

112. Or, Said Another Way

Seeking validation for being an asshole is a venerable DU tradition. They can all be boiled down to "I acted like a douchebag to someone today because they had the gall to have a different belief system than I do and attempted to engage me in conversation about it, please tell me how great I am."

Not necessarily a good one, but a tradition none the less.

[scarletwoman]

138. And in that grand DU tradition of "validation for being an asshole", it will be my pleasure

to so validate you.

[malaise]

145. You're on a roll today

:D

[NeedleCast]

147. I know you've got your panties all in a twist

because some people aren't so quick to celebrate the asshole-ish behavior of the OP, but it doesn't change the facts.

I've just never thought it was a particularly progressive point of view to congratulate people for acting like assholes, regardless of the situation.

[scarletwoman]

156. Oh, far from it! I'm laughing my ass off! (nt)

[NeedleCast]

159. Sure you are

Which is why you're jumping all over people in the thread who dares disagree with your buddy. Asking people "who the fuck they think they are" is a pretty good indication that your panties are, indeed, all twisty.

[scarletwoman]

161. I really think you should get your mind off my panties.

It's really -- ya know -- kind of creepy...

:rofl:

[NeedleCast]

168. Last Word Goes to You

I've got to get to the store myself.

Maybe someone will offer me a free sample of something. I'll punch them in the face and then run back to DU to tell everyone about how great I am!

I know your little circle jerk session wont be the same without me, but don't let that stop ya. It's obvious you and your buddy are very proud of yourselves.

[malaise]

169. Talk about knots

You're punching people now. :rofl:

[scarletwoman]

185. Geeze. He tells me I get the last word, but then he takes off.

Pffft.

(I hope he doesn't punch the elderly lady offering sausage slices on a toothpick next to the frozen food aisle, I'd feel like it was all my fault... :eyes: )

[malaise]

196. He/she might and I am not responsible

Words are wind; blows are unkind :rofl:

[malaise]

163. Thanks for making this thread

hysterically funny. I suspect you're more knotted up than the rope at a boy scouts camp.

[baby_mouse]

412. Well, this validation seeking thing is actually your idea.

And you don't seem to have any way of showing that that was the purpose of the OP, I'm afraid. Or do you? I haven't read the whole thread, does malaise in any part of this discussion display a requirement for validation? Or is she just relating an experience?

[malaise]

421. Sometimes you just have to laugh

at the thought process of some posters. I was merely relating an experience and never expected some of these reactions. You learn something daily at DU.

[baby_mouse]

427. I really don't know where they're coming from. They're all over the place these days.

Snippy little tricks, smart as you like, repeatedly ignoring anything said to them, spouting spin just short of something you can call them out over with minds like a pair of scissors.

[baby_mouse]

401. Get's MY validation, no problems.

[malaise]

107. Better still

The three of you would be perfect. Maybe I'll get a flier and send you their contact address.

[scarletwoman]

123. Brava!

:yourock:

[malaise]

125. Yuh think?

:rofl:

[NeedleCast]

85. Anger Management

[scarletwoman]

87. Proselityzer management.

[NeedleCast]

90. Yes, telling reasonable people to fuck off is a proper response

From the OPs own post, it sounds like these people were nothing but reasonable. They approached her and attempted to hand her a flier. She "gave them a look." On the way out, one of them approached again, and inferring a little from the OP, sounds like they wanted to make sure there was no misunderstanding or possibly even apologize for disturbing the OP. They are told to "fuck off."

That is not a reasonable response and I'm not going to pat the OP on the back (which is what she is looking for) for doing it.

I don't like people proselytizing to me either, so when it happens, I just say "not interested, thanks." Attempting to justify being hostile to people who are not being hostile to you is just that, an attempt to justify unwarranted behavior.

[scarletwoman]

96. Sorry, I do not consider religious proselityzing to be a "reasonable" act, period.

I consider it an inherently hostile act, and see no problem with responding to a hostile act with hostility in return -- especially when one has already given warning first.

[NeedleCast]

101. So Verbally Assauting People is okay, as long as you disagree with them

Gotcha.

Very progressive point of view.

Despite your opinion, approaching someone and attempting to engage them in conversation is not a hostile act. If you see it that way, it's your problem (and yeah, it is a problem).

As a person who's done a lot of door-to-door canvasing for various democrats, I don't think I've ever been treated in such a hostile manner, even by people I knew were conservatives. I would have quit doing this valuable service for democrats a long time ago if even a small percentage of people thought "FUCK OFF!" was a reasonable response to "Hey, my name is Steve and I'd like to talk to you about Barack Obama."

[scarletwoman]

116. Religious proselityzing is a completely different species of interaction than political advocacy.

Saying "fuck off" to a religious proselityzer is a "verbal assault"? Don't be ridiculous. Those trying to push their brand of "my way is the only way" are the actual assailants; fending them off isn't assault, it's defense.

[NeedleCast]

126. I really can't think of any circumstance in which telling someone

to fuck off in a hostile manner is not a verbal assault.

Attempting to speak to someone about your belief systems, whether it be a religious belief system or a political one, is no different. It's an attempt to convince someone you're right about something and they should adopt that same belief. You can allow your feelings on religion to cloud that if you want, but the bottom line is it's the same thing.

Nor did the people mentioned in the OPs rant seem pushy in any way. They approached, were met with unreasonable behavior, and went away. Sorry that I'm not willing to shower the OP with praise for being a dick.

[malaise]

128. Then don't verbally assault me first n/t

[NeedleCast]

133. At what point were you verbally assaulted?

[malaise]

146. At the point where he approached me a second time n/t

[ProdigalJunkMail]

179. your definition of assault is pretty screwed... n/t

[Caretha]

368. What is the difference between "screwed" & "fucked"?

[malaise]

381. Good question

one is sanitized and can be said on TV. :D

[ProdigalJunkMail]

465. well in this case fucked didn't fit as well as screwed did

as i was speaking to the twisting of the definition of assault...

sP

[Judi Lynn]

468. He knew what your wishes were, and he was telling you he was going to ignore your wishes, anyway.

At that point, he was most certainly asking for it.

You were RIGHT.

Pompous, pretensious claims of moral superiority to your response are comical.

[malaise]

483. They are water on a duck's back sis

:hi:

[spoony]

218. Clearly, any mention of religion = assault

To someone looking for an excuse to be an arse like the OP, anyway.

[baby_mouse]

413. ARG. self delete #3

sorry.

[SalmonChantedEvening]

102. Abso SW :)

:hi: :loveya:

Should I wish any religion to be in my life, I'll seek it out where I choose.

And when selecting faith, the automatic doors of the Safe-Way are hardly the location I'd have in mind.

[malaise]

114. It's that simple n/t

[malaise]

109. To each her own n/t

[NeedleCast]

115. That's True

You have a "right" to be a dick.

[malaise]

118. Both of us do n/t

[baby_mouse]

410. Good movie.

[pleah]

88. If they spent all that time actually helping people

they might get a better response. I have been nice in the past, but I have to tell you I have wanted to say something similar myself. :)

[treestar]

122. Absolutely. If they were doing something helpful to the less

fortunate, they'd be doing what Jesus said to do. That would do far more to proselytize than what they are doing.

[malaise]

127. These days I call it

Shock 'religious doctrine'.

[frogmarch]

89. Well done, malaise.

I can't stand having religion pushed at me anywhere. You gave those two Jesus freaks exactly what they deserved.

[NeedleCast]

93. What Makes them "Jesus Freaks?"

"Hey, how are you, can I talk to you a minute about Jesus?"

Is that really all it takes to make someone a Jesus Freak?

[malaise]

111. Anyone pushing religion outside of their religious institution

is a freak.

[NeedleCast]

119. So attempting to speak with people

about something you believe in outside an institution of it's practice makes you a freak?

Interesting conclusions you've developed.

Is someone who calls other people on the phone to speak with them about democrat candidates running for an office a freak?

[malaise]

121. I'm dealing with religion

campaigning for a political candidate is public but if you don't like it you can tell them 'fuck off' as well.

[NeedleCast]

129. I'm not arguging whether you can or can't do it

Just not going to give you the high-five you're looking for for acting like an asshole.

[malaise]

137. Hahahahaha

A high what? :shrug:

[fla nocount]

135. LaRouche's people call you too? Asshats! n/t

[frogmarch]

134. They're Jesus freaks because

they're so gung ho on peddling the fairytales about this mythical icon that they even approach strangers, hoping to convert them to this nonsense. In my opinion, anyone who's that gung ho about believing in the Christian fairytale guy has earned the label "Jesus freak."

[NeedleCast]

143. So is it freaksih

that I approach strangers in their homes or call them on the phone attempting to "convert" them to vote for Democrats?

[malaise]

148. Politics is public

religious beliefs or no religious beliefs are private

[NeedleCast]

154. Why?

Sounds like you just wish that's the way things were. I know several people who are very private about their politics but are quite open about their religion (or usually lack thereof).

Both are simply a belief system. Why do you consider one private and one public?

[malaise]

166. All religion is fantasy n/t

[baby_mouse]

430. Its that reducing everything to "just a belief system" where it goes wrong.

Fundamentalism is more than just a belief system, it's an aggressive take-over style belief system. Its offensive, monologue-based, conversion-fueled and destructive. It is NOT "just a belief system" and I cannot accept the premise that you don't already understand this.

[frogmarch]

152. No. Democrats exist. nt

[NeedleCast]

157. Being a Democrats is just a belief system

Democrats exists?

So do Christians...it's the entity that they worship that's debatable. Just like Democratic/progressive ideals.

How did you become a Democrat (or progressive, if you prefer)? I assume other people, whether they spoke to you directly or indirectly, were involved in the development of your political beliefs?

Why is it okay to pontificate for a particular political viewpoint, but not okay for someone to speak to you about their religious beliefs?

[baby_mouse]

432. Democats do not send their children to "Democrat camp".

Democrats do not demand that the Democratic manifesto be put on plaques in public schools for the betterment of the populace. Democrats do not attempt to have scientifically accepted principles removed from school curricula and Democrats do not believe that anyone who isn't a Democrat is possessed supernaturally by infinitely evil, perpetually scheming extradimensional beings whose sole purpose is to subvert the concept of goodness itself.

The left wing and the christianity are NOT comparable as belief systems in terms of their modus operandi, their motivations in seeking dialogue or their ultimate goals. By repeatedly stating that everything is "just a belief system" you reduce all belief systems to hobbies like stamp collecting and you remove the objectionable nature of the dangerous and completely unsubstantiated beliefs supported only by fear and intolerance inherent in the belief systems that attempt to propagate them.

You are disengenuous, sir.

[malaise]

433. Great response

:D

[malaise]

158. Great response

:rofl:

[Sal Minella]

149. They should SHOW me about Jesus, not TALK TO ME about Jesus.

============================
"Hey, how are you, can I talk to you a minute about Jesus?"

Is that really all it takes to make someone a Jesus Freak?
=============================

Short answer = "Yes."

[snake in the grass]

221. Yes...

that is all it takes. If they feel compelled to approach and harass me with their bronze age swill then a 'Fuck off!' is what they will get from me, but I'll say it with a smile if that makes you happy. For too long these people have undermined progress under the cloak of tolerance. It is this tolerance that has allowed them to grow so strong. Unspeakable crimes against humanity have been committed and still are to this day. If they choose to huddle in their churches listening to what the shaman has to say, letting their brains turn to tapioca then that is fine. They shouldn't expect others to just fall in line.

[Caretha]

370. Since your are asking...

Pretty much :)

[fla nocount]

91. Good one Malaise, creeping up on 100 posts and have them quoting....

Sandburg, Twain AND the sweet, sweet Jeebus

[malaise]

117. LOL

Those are the good ones :D

[SalmonChantedEvening]

95. Awright malaise!!

:hug:

Fuck these naysayers, never let anyone selling you bullshit have an easy time of it.

[malaise]

120. You know I never do

not even on Some Enchanted Evening :D

[trashcanistanista]

103. I went to my supermarket today in my pathetic little

red town where no one EVER talks to me because I have had an Obama sticker on my backpack purse for about a year now. Well today, I was ordering in front of the deli counter (since I hate to cook) and some guy came up to me from behind (saw my sticker) and said "hello how are you today". I turned around and didn't see anyone else, so I said, "me?" He said yes, and repeated how are you? I was so stunned I uttered a mundane but friendly response and started smiling. The deli person also smiled at me and started talking to him too, and I really don't know what that was about, but I left happy. Maybe they are out there, underground, and I didn't know it?

[malaise]

124. That was nice

The worm is turning. Wonder how they're responding to McSame stickers. :D

[KingFish019]

132. Wow...

Your "pathetic little red town?" Does this poor little town realize it has such a star in its midst?

Maybe people do not talk to you because they sense your unwarranted disdain for them.

[malaise]

141. or maybe not

You speak with such authority for someone with three posts. maybe the town like the rest of the country is turning blue or purple.

[KingFish019]

150. I registered a day or two ago...

Sue me.

My point was not that certain parts of the contry are turning blue or purple. I hope they are. The point was that "pathetic" was the first word the other poster used to describe their town. Generally speaking, if you cling to some misguided sense of superiority, and think people around you are pathetic, people won't talk to you.

Trust me, I have an Obama sticker on my car. Gasp, I also have conversations with people.

[trashcanistanista]

272. Trust me, if I put an Obama sticker on my car

It would be vandalized as I shop. I speak from my own experience not from a sense of superiority. And any small town that has a dying infrastructure, horrific roads, lousy sewage, practically no water, crooked politicians, tons of foreclosed houses, no jobs, and homeless people begging for money on the corner 24/7 and a hugh meth problem is not pathetic per se, but, the fact that they vote overwhelmingly rethug makes them pathetic IMO.

[Name removed]

151. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[malaise]

153. LOL

:popcorn:

[mitchtv]

155. Shame on you

Persecuting those poor perennially persecuted Xians. The only thing more distasteful than Christians proselytizing in Republicans doing it. Keep up the good work

[malaise]

160. Where's the wink thingy

:D

[trashcanistanista]

257. I really think it's the sticker.

Before I put the sticker on my purse, I had no problem.

[malaise]

136. Get the popcorn

about now. Maybe I should pre-order a wreath.

[Arugula Latte]

162. I don't blame you. I have about zero tolerance for religious proseletyzing (however you spell it).

I mean, the nerve of people, you know? Hey, if I want to learn about fairy tales, I can go check out some Brothers Grimm from the library.

[malaise]

165. That's what the critics are missing

zero tolerance - that simple.

[trashcanistanista]

264. I truly didn't mean to start a mini flame war in your thread!

I just wanted to point out that things may be changing. But yes, zero tolerance for fundies. I stand by you. BTW this is the most popular thread of the day, maybe even the week!

:hi:

And to the new registrant, Welcome to DU!

[malaise]

278. That's OK

People are bored today what's why this got so many responses. Some are fall down funny. :hi:

[blues90]

164. I say these religion freaks either stay in their curch or get arrested

they have no business selling religion on the streets.

[malaise]

167. They have been allowed to get out of control

other hustlers are arrested.

[blues90]

228. they should be defined as stalkers

This is what they are . I am sick of being stopped in parking lots or on the street with some freak who is not asking directions or the time. They are always in groups of two or three . They step right out in my path and if this were a state with the right to carry they would be in trouble.

Let me introduce you to my god crap . Or are you saved . Get the hell out of my way.

Next thing we will see are people posing as these freaks only with the full intent of robbing you at gun point.

[malaise]

235. Good point n/t

[spoony]

240. Are jack boots comfortable or do they just make you wear them?

[blues90]

258. What are you talking about ? Jack boots?

maybe it's fine for you to defend people who have absolutely no business or invitation to approach anyone simply because they have some cause.

If people wanted to become part of their organized religion fine, there are plenty of ways to seek this out. But this in no way gives them the right to badger people anywhere , especially out in front of a business or store.

perhaps you are one of them. Either that or you have gone off the deep end on free speech and expression. It's one thing to gather and invite people who are willing to come to some meeting for the purpose of selling their product but quite another to do it without permission . Let them go pay for a billboard then.

I don't like anyone getting in my face because I don't know what their intent is and I would never do it . Normal people will ask the time or directions but they don't get in your face or path to do so.

You have the jack boots on the wrong feet .

[spoony]

271. Hmm, let's see, which of us is advocating arresting people

for exercising their free speech rights?

Oh, I forgot, thinking that people handing out flyers should not be suppressed by police force makes me "off the deep end on free speech"!

A lot of people here desperately need counseling. Or a new political alignment.

[blues90]

288. these people are not just handing out flyer's

There are here getting in people faces in groups of two of three and knocking on doors to sell their religion . Perhaps the OP made one point but I am adding all the points.

Even these scientologists are getting in the people paths to stick a fly-er in your face.

As far as your latest reply , there are 380 odd replies here and i am not about to read them all. I read the title and go from there.

what separates the religious handing out fliers or the porn store handing out fliers .

Free speech is one thing , but what about freedom of movement in public , where does that fit into the scheme?

As I said , if people want to advertise go pay for a bill board and allow people to decide what they will. Or lay the flyer's on a table and let the people decide if they have an interest , just don't stick it in people faces , that's not free speech, that's intrusion .

[malaise]

292. 100% correct

These are the same people handing out bibles in public schools attempting to brainwash people's children.

[spoony]

Uh huh, so you literally are so daily encumbered

by so many hundreds of people stuffing flyers in your face that you find police intervention necessary. Somehow I don't believe it. See, I've never had that happen. Not once. They hold them out and you can take them or not; never had anyone try to feed me one. I doubt you have either.

And so what if they ask you, gasp, twice, once when you go into a place and once on your way out. They probably don't remember faces. Big deal.

By the way, you do also consider politcal calls/door-to-doors not covered by free speech? Certainly that's at least as much an intrusion as being offered a flyer. And don't reply with that evasive "well religion is xyz and politics is real" nonsense, because you've already said that it's no different from advertising a porn shop, and those exist as well.

Free speech sometimes is an intrusion. That's life. You don't get to shut down things you don't like any more than fundies should get to shut down those porn shops you mentioned.

[blues90]

320. Opinions vary and it does depend on where you live

If you live in a city like I do yes they force their crap in your face. I could care less if you believe me or not.

And if I am coming out of a store with bags in my hand I do not need someone stopping me.

Yes I consider political phone calls intrusion . As much as callers selling web sites and other offers. My phone is for my own personal use and i pay for the phone for that reason . It is not there for any other type of call. I don't recall selling my phone number for anyone to use or offering it for free .

Don't assume how I might respond. You have a bug about free speech. I and others express it here and you have a problem with that . Remember you are the one who came out of the ether and challenged me on this issue , I was responding with my opinion to the OP. I was not responding to you until you came at me.

You are very much like the people handing out the damn free speech flyers.

Where do you draw the line between free speech and free advertisment? Hell I can't go out on my own lawn and do a lawn sale without a business license even if it were a one time deal . I can't post signs either. They are selling religion.

So then I suppose it would also be free speech if I wore a T-shirt , with sell me no religion , leave me the fuck alone , that's free speech isn't it.

[prole_for_peace]

171. I don't understand why everyone is giving you such crap for this.

You had already let them know you were not interested and they approached you a again. That is where politness ends for me. Did they expect "Oh its for JESUS! Now I AM interested"?

[malaise]

173. Not everyone

just a few people who believe I should tolerate rubbish from Jesus hustlers.

[prole_for_peace]

182. I should have put "all those people" instead of "everyone"

I over generalize sometimes. I need to pay more attention to what I write.

Anyway, I reserve the right to tell anyone approaching me with any literature or belief to get out of my space. I usually just give a "no thanks" or a slight shake of my head but if they persist...then I might just break out a "Back the fuck off"

[malaise]

197. LOL

:D

[TexasObserver]

200. It's because that kind of religious person is very SHAME based.

Look at the comments in this thread which denigrate the OP:

"How dare you speak that way to a person who was merely pushing their religion on you at a store?!"

"You should be ashamed of yourself for talking like that to them!"

"Why are you so rude to people who were just trying to tell you about Jesus?!"

[baby_mouse]

436. Because they're insufferably sanctiminious boobs themselves, I guess.

Some of them could take a leaf out or two of their own precious little manners books and read them again, this time with the emphasis on comprehension.

[TexasObserver]

172. You should have known the Bible thumpers would chide you for your response.

There is simply no limit to the obnoxiousness of those who believe they've found God.

It is annoying having jackasses who lack the ability to rationally think about spiritual matters coming up to you in public places and pushing their infantile notions about God and religion. As for those here who get their religious underwear in a bunch, who cares? They're always going to be outraged, OUTRAGED I TELL YOU, any time anyone doesn't buy their ludicrous views about religion.

[malaise]

174. That is the absolute truth

Tough - I will not tolerate rubbish.

[fla nocount]

191. Now, I don't know her but I think that Ms. Malaise might be getting exactly

the response she hoped for if not the one she expected by posting the details of her domestic life. She's having fun at DU by getting Centrist types all up in the air over something that has absolutely no substance or consequence at all. This is more fun than a PlaidAdder meltdown and I'm grateful to her and all the sick sisters on this side of the fence. It would be a mighty grim Saturday without them.

[malaise]

194. I posted this with no agenda

I just noticed how brazen these hustlers have become. My worry is that because we have been polite in the past and not responded firmly, they are becoming more aggressive. In the past a look would be enough for them to ignore you. I'm not taking anymore. Harass me about religion in a public space at your peril. Still the responses have been entertaining.

[Sal Minella]

307. Usually when the JayDubs knock on my door and take me away from whatever I'm doing, I ask

"Are you Jehovah's Witnesses?" And when they say Yes, I just say, "I am really, really not interested." And they go quietly.

But after reading about how I should show kindness when accosted, next time I will say, "I'm going to be very polite about this. Would you please fuck off?"

There. I gain SO MUCH practical wisdom from my regular readings in D.U. :)

[malaise]

308. That was funny as hell

I give all of them one free pass. Then it's my rights versus theirs. :D

[fla nocount]

336. I respect what you've said, but, you must admit, there's a measure of

of sport to it as well. If it is a matter of pure co-inky-dink on your part I stand aside to admire inspiration, but remind you that by choosing the topic wisely you could have 400 responses everyday depending on which buttons you push. I've had a lot of fun today, I'm going to send Skinner some money in your honor even though my turn to the troll worm was deleted. I get deleted a lot by the way, not tombstoned or banned, just deleted and sometimes not even that. Sometimes they just disappear...Phtt.

Thanks

[malaise]

352. It did turn out to be funny in a serious way but believe me

it was pure co-inky-dink. I usually post political news links. Only once did I do a war songs thread which turned out to be full of great music thanks to our great DUers.

I'm not a button pusher but I do have strong convictions and I am beyond shocked at some of the responses.

[fla nocount]

385. Here, a gift, read the text, I haven't watched the vid yet.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/gerard_baker/article4392846.ece

[malaise]

388. That's hilarious

And it came to pass, in the eighth year of the reign of the evil Bush the Younger (The Ignorant), when the whole land from the Arabian desert to the shores of the Great Lakes had been laid barren, that a Child appeared in the wilderness. :rofl:

[spoony]

209. Yeah, DU is just crawling with Bible thumpers

Or, maybe, people just don't approve of others bragging about being jerks and expecting pats on the back for it. I don't care if they're peddling knives, Jesus, or coupons, there's no reason to be an arsehole. And there's REALLY no reason to be proud of being an arsehole.

[Throd]

249. This atheist thinks the OP was a hostile prick

[JanMichael]

250. and this one thinks the OP did the right thing

nt

[baby_mouse]

428. And this ex-born-again thinks they were dead on. NT

[flvegan]

201. This thread needs to find Jesus.

[Ikonoklast]

203. I guess telling you about Lord Xenu is out, then?

[malaise]

210. LOL

:rofl:

[LiberalEsto]

327. Don't forget the Flying Spaghetti Monster

Her Noodleyness has much to offer, if only people would give in to the Sauce.

;)

[Dr.Phool]

490. And he'll be appearing at Pizza Italia this week!! In the sauce!

Or is it she?

[LiberalEsto]

494. She to me, he to you

The FSM is above and beyond gender


And you'll notice that Her loyal Pastafarians don't pester people with religious fliers. Pizza coupons, maybe.

[Hubert Flottz]

242. "just promoting Jesus"

Damn, 2000 years old and still going to school? Gawd must be "home schooling" JHC.

[malaise]

251. I don't know what it is but I suspect that if you get caught up in

myths about the afterlife, you'll fail to notice how much you're being exploited on planet earth. It's all about diversion from reality. I pass.

[Hubert Flottz]

260. If Gawd goes along with the shit Bush has been doing I'll pass too!

My best friend's mother ran away with our local preacher when I was a kid...so I've kind of been passing for a loooooooong time too.

I'm glad you stood your ground.

[Snarkturian Clone]

266. Bigot.

Way to represent the cause. Why do you have to make atheists like me and you look bad by being arrogant and insulting to people who are just doing what they believe in? Your anti-religious attitude is an insult to this board. I don't care how long you've been on the site or how many friends you have, you're no better than an RWer.

I went to a Pennsylvania Dutch restaurant in Philly this morning. They have some good-ass pancakes. There's a bunch of god shit written all over the place in there. Should I have ripped it off the walls and bashed my server over the head with my plate? If I did, I would probably get tons of applause here for it.

My boss said "God bless you" to me once... should I go shit on his desk?

You're pathetic.

[malaise]

281. I work with many religious people

I hear God bless you 20 times a day. That's not proselytizing but it is amazing arrogance. I have been to Seven Day Adventist restaurants to eat food not for religion.

[trashcanistanista]

286. Apples and oranges.

You went to the restauant willingly and they didn't surround your table while you ate and push their religion on you without your consent. The people that malaise is talking about are those that follow you around or come to your house over and over again, and try to get you to convert to their religion because they have a preconceived notion that your religion is not good, despite what you tell them. They do not listen. They already view you as substandard or less than godly which is why they are there in the first place. Many people find this insulting because religion or non religion is personal and above criticism. They should have an open house and invite the public to their church. Apparently this doesn't work so they go out and do the confontational in your face sales pitch. It is just plain insulting and they need to realize that. Malaise has done them a service by pointing it out to them.

[malaise]

290. That is it in a nutshell

What's more it is unbelievable arrogance to believe that they can stop me to deliver their propaganda without considering my schedule. Who the hell do they think they are? If you violate my space you'll have to live with my response.

[baby_mouse]

434. "represent the cause" ?????

What cause??? The cause of getting public nuisances to mind their own goddamn business?

You talk about malaise as if she were wearing a 150 foot neon-lit flag over her head at all times saying "VOTE DEMOCRAT".

[Dukkha]

462. you're pathetic

way to support the enemy asshole.

[Snarkturian Clone]

463. Christians are the enemy now?!?!?

I'll have to update my list.

You must be a supporter of the incident described in this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3685663

A great heroic act to you, eh?

[malaise]

497. Some are

the Fallwells Hagee, Robertson, Dobson followers are my enemies - they are dangerous zealots just like the Muslim extremists. We have many close friends from a variety of faiths but none of them proselytize.

[mudesi]

289. What if they were Klansmen?

I wonder if the people so shocked at your rudeness would react the same way if it had been a couple of racists promoting white power. Or how about homophobes handing out flyers warning about the evils of gays and how they deserve to get AIDS.

Why is promoting ignorance acceptable when it falls under the "religion" label?

[malaise]

291. Precisely

They get away with it because too many people are afraid to call the Xtians on their public invasion of other people's space. All bullshit is bullshit in my world.

Great response.

[TexasObserver]

309. Indeed. Klansmen consider themselves to be religious.

Their beliefs in Christianity are central to their hatred. One can argue they don't represent true Christianity, but then who is kidding who? The most prolific supporters of Bush and his war in Iraq are also the most "Christian" in the land. If only people who attend some kind of Christian church every week were to vote, we would have a fascist government which locked up non believers.

[malaise]

312. And that is what those who want me to be nice fail to

understand.

[AlCzervik]

294. Jesus doesn't need "Promoting", he's not a night club. I tell the religion salespeople

that stop by my house that faith doesn't need marketing and then i usually give them a bottle of my unholy water because it's really hot here now. Out of all the ones that come to my house i'd say the mormon boys are the most polite, after i tell them i'm an atheist and give them some water they take off without leaving the pamphlets.

[malaise]

296. Most of them are promoting their business

snake oil salesmen and women. I'll ignore them the first time. Second time -they've crossed the line and violated my space.

[AlCzervik]

302. the one that riles me is this one guy that claims he's been in the biz all his life

working for the poor and downtrodden and damn if he doesn't have at least 5 really nice suits. Bizness must be good.

[malaise]

306. Megachurches are businesses and

many are subsidized by tax payers

[SammyWinstonJack]

295. If they were *promoting Jesus*, why suggest that they *go fight Bush's war in Iraq*?

:shrug: I don't like it when religious people get in my face either, but it doesn't seem like they were being nasty about it. The flier might have been against the *war on Iraq*. Since you didn't take the flier, you wouldn't know, would you?

[malaise]

304. They approached me on the way in and I ignored them

One of them came up to me again and started to proselytize. That's when I responded. They rarely come here without official backing.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

315. official backing? what does that mean?

from the church they belong to? there are some instances where people go off on missions without a church backing them, but that is usually financially difficult so most mission-type people DO go with church backing (at least financially).

sP

[malaise]

316. What do you know about the methods used to destroy the liberation theologists

and promote the Fundies across our hemisphere?

My favorite cousin was the President of the Moravian Church and a member of the World Council of Churches - he was murdered in cold blood outside the Caribbean Council of Churches office in the middle of the right wing rise to power in Jamaica.

[TexasObserver]

317. Even if it's from the little brown church in the wildwood, it's fundies exporting ignorance.

They're using their tax exempt dollars to send like minded emissaries to spread their "gospel," which gospel is almost exclusively rightwing gibberish.

[malaise]

318. Mostly to depoliticize the population

and make them submissive tools waiting for the afterlife. Count me out.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

323. are liberal christians (to you) full of this

'rightwing gibberish' gospel you speak of? i belong to a pretty liberal church that is heavily invested in the gospel...but it is not the rightwing gibberish you seem to think it is. Christ was a pretty liberal dude...

sP

[malaise]

324. No my cousin was never full of right wing gibberish

but then he studied all religions and worked in the ghettos with poor people in several Caribbean territories. He had many doubts about faith after completing his PhD in Theology from the University of Columbia and we had more than a few discussions about atheism. He was a liberation theologian. I know several decent religious people but they are never in public spaces proselytizing.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

326. please don't think that was directed at you...

i was asking TO if that is his/her (sorry I haven't investigated TO's gender yet) belief that all Christians believed this right wing stuff...

sP

[malaise]

330. Cool

I responded to the wrong post but that's my view on that - too many posts. :D

[TexasObserver]

329. Jesus was a liberal, but he was not a Christian, was he?

Jesus was a Jew, from his birth until his death.

If your church is liberal, you're not a very good example of it. Why are you so dogmatic in your belief that others should toe the line you find so fascinating? Why aren't you out doing something worthwhile now, instead of wagging your finger at others who don't believe exactly as you do on the subject of appropriate behavior for those offended by uber Christers?

[ProdigalJunkMail]

332. true...he was a jew...born...raised..died

and what i am discussing here is not about religion at all. it is about decorum in a public place and the victory that can be had in situation like that by NOT using profanity. i would have the same feelings (and would probably voice them here) if this had been directed at someone passing out republican registration cards or copies of Mein Kampf. I have not had a religious reason for anything i have said...it is not like i am here screaming, "Jesus Christ COMPELS you!" i find it sad that this is what discussing comes to and it is painful to see people who could otherwise spread the gospel of liberalism falling into the trap that these 'uber-Christers' set for them...

sP

[malaise]

335. When good people decide that decorum trumps our rights

and violation of our space, bad people seize power and remove those rights incrementally.

Fuck decorum and fight back before they take everything that matters from us.

[LiberalEsto]

349. Hell, yes!

I also think many of us on DU have been so traumatized by the unconstitutional excesses and abuses of the current Misadministration, that it is understandable if our tempers have become short.

Just about every day since the Supreme Court conferred the role of president on that incompetent Bush and his sneaking, lying, torturing sidekick (or puppeteer), we have been forced to put up with "free speech zones" and tasers, Homeland Security excesses, the shame of belonging to a country that declares war for the heck of it and routinely tortures its prisoners of war, the abrogation of our freedoms, unregulated government spying, and so much more. We've watched our national resources sold off to political cronies, and seen environmental, consumer, labor and many other protections eroded.

On top of that we've had to take years of non-stop crap from right wing jerks who call us traitors for opposing an unjust war, and "religious" loonies seeking to force their narrow beliefs about Creationism, abortion, women's rights, birth control, education, freedom of speech and many other things on us.

We've had our cars vandalized for displaying pro-choice bumper stickers. We've had homes vandalized for displaying posters of Democratic candidates for office. We've had Democratic Party voters illegally struck off eligible voter rolls. We've had election headquarters sabotaged by Rethug dirty tricksters. We've had voting machines and election results sabotaged by cheating, lying, thieving Rethugs. We've been spied on by police for attending peace rallies.

We've had people lose homes to foreclosure because the Misadministration believes in letting banks and big corporations run roughshod over us. We've had thousands upon thousands of Americans lose jobs because corporations are allowed to skip town and hire cheap foreign labor, or import foreign labor on H1B visas and throw more Americans out of work. We've watched the federal surplus turned into a gargantuan deficit as the maw of this bullshit war sucks in human lives and human resources like a black hole.

I could write on for hours about the crimes of the current Misadministration, but my point is this.

We've taken far too much shit from all these bastards for nearly 8 long years, and we're at the boiling point. I, for one, do not want to give any of these bastards another inch, and if one of them feels they can shove their "religious" or political horseshit at me, they deserve everything they're going to get back.

[malaise]

350. And none of what you wrote there in an excellent post

can be separated from this right wing theological invasion of our space and our rights. It is all connected. Give them an inch and they grab miles. Rights must trump decorum.

[TexasObserver]

337. It's just a fucking word!!

If you choose to label words you don't like as "profane" that is your choice. Apply it to your life.

If I don't fucking agree with your choices, that's my option. It's none of your fucking business.

What you never seem to comprehend is that when you insist that others accept your tight ass view of language, you're being unreasonable, not those who are speaking as they see fit. You want to censor others because you think some words are really bad.

As for conduct, if you really cared about obnoxious conduct, you would not have made most of the posts you have made in this thread.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

340. you're right ... it is a word... and most of the people on

earth that understand it take (when used in that context) as hostile...even aggressive. And this is my business. Malaise made it my business by posting on this board...just like I made it YOUR business when I decided to interject and therefor haven't tried to tell you to mind your own business (i did tell you to go away if discussion boards are not to your liking).

to top it all off, i like the word fuck. i use it. it feels good to blurt it out when a server is acting up or when i cannot get AD to behave the way i think it should. i use it around my friends. my wife and i say it to each other all the time in various contexts...but once again you fail to see reason here. MOST people would see what was said as hostile...and i took it to be a hateful response (and given my further discussion with malaise i feel it was hateful to some degree...but that is her thing and is even somewhat justified). the people around probably took it that way...and the people to whom it was directed...well, it just solidified for them the reason they need to be far from home 'saving' the people of Jamaica...

and as far as obnoxious conduct...well, once again...pot...meet kettle... (and you can scream racism again and continue to prove your ignorance).

sP

[malaise]

342. What you don't see is that by approaching me a second time

after being ignored the first time, the religious hustler was already obnoxious and I had every intention of letting him know that was what I thought. 'Fuck off' was a perfect phase to make that statement. Rest assured - he backed off instantly. Do not violate my space.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

345. for you and for that time it was the perfect response...

we have different methods...i agree with you 100% that the huckster was obnoxious...but this whole exchange still pains me.

sP

[malaise]

333. The thing is that nothing anyone posts here will affect how I react

to people violating my space. They offend me big time and I am not afraid to make them know it anyway I choose outside of violence.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

322. actually I don't know much about that topic

but I was curious what you meant by official backing. most DO come with some sort of official backing from a church so I surmised you believed 'official' means something else and i would suppose it does. it is disgusting that some people twist the teachings of Christ and then spread it...poisoning the world with that filth. and i am sorry that you lost someone close to you to particularly in the name of religion...ANY religion.

i know you feel justified in your response to those people today. i don't know them and i don't know you and i was not there so maybe there is more to this than i am reading. you are entitled to feel the way you do (as you have said upthread) and your reactions and actions are your own...but i do feel you were wrong to lash out that way, not because i have any special knowledge of what happened, but because i don't think 'fuck off' is a good way to deal with any situation but i would be lying if i said i hadn't done that too...but to me a more leveled approach would have been to simply walk away, or say something to the effect of 'i don't appreciate you bothering me with this claptrap after i made it quite clear when i entered that i wanted nothing to do with you'...even loud enough to be heard by everyone around. you WIN when you say something like that. you give them nothing and you still get to make your point (which to be honest i mostly agree with).

i am sorry that we have had this disagreement...not that we were friends or anything...

sP

[malaise]

325. Disagreements are healthy

In my world 'fuck off' is no different than leave me in peace.

I know a lot about the role of right wing evangelists in our part of the hemisphere. And yes ' official' has a much deeper meaning. There was more than a little shock 'religious doctrine' and indoctrination from the Reagan/Bush era.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

328. now that i have you attention...

would you please accept this tract as evidence of god's unfailing love manifested in me and then...make a love offering???

sP

[malaise]

331. No tracts for me

and I have no gods in any religion. Dealing with nature on this planet is enough to occupy my time and space.

I'll offer you a full moon or a sunset from a Caribbean beach with mountains and tropical flora and fauna in the background.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

334. i was hoping for a 'fuck off' :-)

but a beach sure would be nice right now :-)... i have a one year old crawling up my back and threatening to drool on my laptop!

Peace!

sP

[malaise]

339. I never use that phrase to fellow posters

even when I'm angry. This is common space and I hate tombstones.
I do use it in posts.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

341. well, i was simply trying to make a peace offering!

and it would have made me smile...

sP

[malaise]

346. Peace

We both have the right to disagree.

[SammyWinstonJack]

319. I understand that you didn't want them in your face, I don't like that either.

I just wondered why you told them to *go fight in Bush's war in Iraq* when they said they *were just promoting Jesus*.

If that is all they were doing, I hardly think they approve of bush's war on Iraq. :shrug: Telling them to *fuck off* seems pretty tame to me, though I might have just walked away, saying nothing.

[malaise]

321. In hindsight maybe I shouldn't have added that part

but don't forget Falwell, Robertson and Hagee say the same thing.

[Caretha]

382. You've inspired me

along with all the rest of the posters. Especially those who have found that splinter in "your eye" because you told them to fuck off. Next time I'm approached in a public place by these religion peddlers, and they think that my first no meant try again, I'm going to immediately fall down straight to my knees and start screaming.....You've FUCKIN SAVED ME!!! Thank YOU GAWD! Thank you! Thanks for being at the mall. I almost went and charged up my credit card with unnecessary plastic items!

Then I'm going to grab the fliers out of their hands and start passing them out to each and every person that even glances my way. I'm sure with my acting abilities I will be able to convert a few of those wayward souls out there who never heard of Jebus. They'll at least want to have some of what I'm havin'. :)

Since I'm old, I think it will make a real impact. Or at least liven up my next recount of "how I saved a bunch of heathens".

[malaise]

383. Hahahahhahahahah

:rofl: I'm not young either which is why so much of this was hilarious. Imagine the young being more conservative and less insistent on their rights and space than 'we' older folk.

This post is fall down funny. Please make sure someone is running the video when you do this. That UTube clip will be viewed by gazillions with much reverence (not sure that's the right word) :D

The entire thread was worth your post. Respect due. :grouphug:

[Caretha]

389. Namaste

:)

[SammyWinstonJack]

391. It's cool. Maybe they were harmless and maybe they weren't. I understand your reaction to their

insistence. Just not your telling them to go fight in bush's war. I am an atheist and I don't like organized religion in my face, but maybe it is not always what I think it is. :shrug:

[LostinVA]

343. Bounce bounce bounce

[tammywammy]

365. Agreed

;)

[Marr]

347. Apparently Jesus is all-powerful, but he's not so good with the advertising.

[Gabi Hayes]

351. just for fun, I copied this to Word, in printer friendly format. Guess how many pages?

12 point font, with a bunch cut off the margins, for some reason

a dollar to the one who comes closest, without doing it him/herself

love you, malaise, btw

here's a nice beach photo for you:

[malaise]

353. I'll pass on the beach

and I'm clueless about the pages. What I know is that threads this long become really hard to follow. :D

Love you too Gabi Hayes :grouphug:

add

[Gabi Hayes]

356. it's about 53 pages long, and if my printer worked, I'd print it up for leisurely perusal.

gotta go to church first

[malaise]

357. LOL

Damn. :rofl: at the church of Elvis

add

[dysfunctional press]

355. religoids don't promote "jesus"- they promote their idea of what jesus is/was.

and they generally aren't very christian in their methods.

[TexasObserver]

392. Indeed. Most Christian churches would have Jesus thrown out if he showed up.

Jesus was a radical, and if he showed up again, he'd still be a radical.

He would be arrested AGAIN for challenging the self aggrandizing priests, preachers, and pompous church members. He would be imprisoned AGAIN for the inflammatory ideals for which he stood.

The first thing he would do is tell all the so called faithful to burn down their church buildings, give away all their ill gotten gain, and commit themselves to helping the needy.

The Jesus of modern Christianity never existed. He was a radical, and he never said he wanted anyone to build multi million dollar buildings allegedly for his followers.

[tuckessee]

386. Why did you assume they supported the Iraq War? n/t

[LostinVA]

387. Because it sounds better when you write a bouncy story

[Kitty Herder]

398. If you're not rude to them, they never leave you alone.

My ex-boyfriend and I had Mormon missionaries come to our door every day for a week, although we gave them no encouragement to do so, besides simply being polite. We never let them give us the "discussions" or preach to us in anyway and told them up-front that we weren't interested in their religion. We just let them come in briefly to warm up. (This was in Alaska.) It was my fault really. My brothers both served Mormon missions, so I felt sympathy for these poor boys.

It wasn't until my ex finally told them to fuck off in no uncertain terms that they stopped "dropping by."

[malaise]

414. And that's the point

The sooner you tell them to stop violating your space and the more emphatic you are, the sooner they leave you in peace. I was watching Michael Tomasky on CSpan's Washington Journal this morning and the best thing he said was that Obama and his camp are not afraid of Republicans. They spin, lie, etc and he responds immediately.

It's simply about standing up for our rights and our space and no Jebus freak is going to bully me.

[WriteDown]

455. A word of caution for you...

I have many young mormons come to the door wanting to discuss Jesus. I always tell them no thank you(I guess by your logic, I should sick the dogs on them). My caution applies to you at the supermarket though. If a young person's parents are around while they are handing out their flyers and you use your usual inappropriate words, you may find yourself missing most of your teeth.

Saw it happen first-hand at a ballgame when I was kid.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

425. You've Got Some Serious Issues You Need To Work Out. You Acted Completely Inappropriately.

May you mature enough someday to realize that you acted like a total asshole, that you were 100% in the wrong, that there's nothing in that story you should be proud enough of to broadcast here, and that telling it made you look like a complete idiot.

People like you totally bring our party down and I read your story with nothing but disgust for you. You really need to grow up and possibly seek out some therapy and medication. Your behavior was totally irrational.

[malaise]

429. You're still you

:hi:

[Fumesucker]

431. Fundies are like alcoholics..

I'm reminded of the Robin Williams routine regarding being an alcoholic.

Hi honey, what's your name?

(listens)

Fuckoff? Are you Russian?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

435. Based On Your Analogy, It Is The OP You Are Calling The Fundy.

And you're right. Fundamentalists aren't only Christians. In this case, the extremism came from the other side.

[TexasObserver]

446. Ha! This from the most immature member of DU!

You should read your post and imagine it is addressed to you, because you lack the maturity of a 15 year old. People like you bring down the party. You owe the OP an apology, and while you're at, it wouldn't hurt you to apologize to everyone here.

[spoony]

481. Shouldn't you be out persecuting cast iron owners

for being racists?

[Enthusiast]

437. I would not be so ill disposed

Toward the proselytizers if these fundis had not embraced everything Bush. They have looked the other way or supported every imaginable evil by this administration. They like the notion that every breathing Muslim on earth is now their enemy and the enemy of Jesus. These proselytizers promote their biblical based ignorance in public schools and want to force a rejection of long established scientific consensus. Their brand of religion has held that the 'End Times' are rapidly approaching and therefore any and every abuse of the environment is acceptable.

[malaise]

457. Absolutely correct

And they are omnipresent and arrogant to boot.

[Name removed]

438. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fascisthunter]

443. lol....wahhhhhhh

[TexasObserver]

447. That's over the line and unacceptable.

Can't you give your opinion without resorting to that kind of name calling? You know you've gone over the line.

[malaise]

461. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

and just laugh!

[ProdigalJunkMail]

466. oh you can't either so

it is yet another case of the pot calling the kettle black...

let's see if anyone else screams racism...

sP

[scarletwoman]

450. Oops! Looks like you're not as all-powerful as you thought.

The fucking discussion hasn't ended yet.

:rofl:

[malaise]

458. Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

:rofl:

[scarletwoman]

469. LOL! What have you wrought, Malaise? This is one of the nuttiest threads I've ever seen!

The hysteria! The outrage! The frothing at the mouth! The clenching of teeth! The sanctimony! The fist shaking! The finger wagging! The Spanish Inquisition!

It's truly breathtaking! A full weekend's entertainment!

I'm bookmarking it, I will cherish the memory of this thread forever!

:D
sw

Edited to add: The pathos! The bathos! The tragedy! The comedy! (I could probably go on, but I suppose one must stop somewhere...)

[malaise]

484. Seriously some of these responses

are mind blowing. Sugar and spice and all thing nice while my rights and space are trampled. Put simply fuck that. :D

[baby_mouse]

505. They're more than happy to insult you however they see fit, I notice.

Not giving me much confidence in their approach if they can't manage it with one of their own team.

[Snarkturian Clone]

454. That's too nice.

Anyone who supports malaise on this matter is part and parcel to bigotry.

[Raineyb]

478. Bigotry?

That's more than a bit of an exaggeration don't you think?

The OP didn't include all of Christianity in her "Fuck off" to the two rude fundies who accosted her.

Regards

[baby_mouse]

504. Ooh. So it's okay if YOU do it, then?

Fair enough.

[Dukkha]

439. this is the most pathetic waste of bandwidth I've seen in a long time

The OP was right on. It's much more effective to silence fundies with vinegar than honey. These christians need to learn to shut the fuck up an get a life already! They could do something else with their stolen money for once besides traveling around telling everyone how morally superior they are to everyone, just like you people are doing here now.

[TexasObserver]

448. Can you imagine if they really had to suffer "for his name's sake"?

Anyone who tries to sell anything to people coming from grocery shopping by approaching them with flyers or such should expect a certain percentage of FUs. They badgered her on the way in and on the way out. It's annoying. You're going to shop, you're not seeking solicitations by anyone who happens to get a wild hair up their ass to do so.

[malaise]

464. That n/t

[slackmaster]

442. That was very un-Dude of you

[fascisthunter]

444. I Think Proselytizers Need Psychological Help

then maybe spiritual help. Live by example then maybe people will inquire about your spirituality or whatever makes you tick. Until then, be prepared to be told to "Fuck Off!".

[malaise]

459. Bingo

and I will tell them just that. I'll ignore them once - bother me again and an FO is coming.

[Enthusiast]

470. Exactly!

Wouldn't it be inspirational to actually witness Jesus-like behavior from these people? It seems to me their whole purpose is to indoctrinate and control. Christianity has become largely about money and how to acquire it from followers. The only way to increase the money is to proselytize in the hopes of finding more followers, thus more money. It's like an industry.

[carlyhippy]

456. My kid was at a public street event recently

and she was called over by a group who had a booth..anyway, after a long lecture she ended up with like 2 bibles and was told to sign a book, and because she signed the book she is going to heaven...I was shocked when she told me about this, this was like a bazaar/street fair thing, she probably signed up for jesus camp or something lol

[malaise]

467. If she went up over to their booth it is different

than if they invaded her space twice in a public place. Just saying.

[carlyhippy]

473. well, it was more of them coaxing her towards their booth

they invaded her space, IMHO, she was just walking by with no intention of stopping at the booth, but they were insistent, kinda in the same manner carnival midway guys coax people towards their games.

The Jehova Witness used to come by my house from time to time, I was nice at first but they kept on and kept on until I finally told them I was not interested, rather firmly so.

[malaise]

485. She needs my basic tool

You have one chance to accept a 'leave me alone' and then one good 'fuck off' works wonders.

edit quotation mark

[Dr.Phool]

471. I usually just tell them I'm not a superstitious person.

And watch the bewildered look on their face.

If they persist, then they get the "Fuck off".

It's like firing a warning shot first.

[malaise]

486. Beautifully stated

except that I'm not entertaining a discussion. One ignore then it's 'fuck off'.

[Dr.Phool]

472. Kick!

[Jim Sagle]

474. Crock!

[scarletwoman]

475. Crikey!

We're on our way to Haiku! :D

[Catherine Vincent]

477. Well, you did give them a warning with your look as you walked in the store.

But they just had to say something to you as you exited the store. I'm thinking it's their fault. They couldn't leave well enough alone. :)

[Rex]

479. Wow look at all the buttons you pushed!

Look at the angry little people, my my. Guess Jesus doesn't teach tolerance much.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

480. you're right...

jesus didn't teach tolerance...he taught forgiveness and love...but tolerance wasn't on the list...

sP

[scarletwoman]

500. Good, then you can forgive those of us who have absolutely no interest in hearing about Jesus,

and don't want it shoved in our faces when we're going about our own business.

sw

[malaise]

501. And that's that

A fitting end.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

502. no one needs to be forgiven...

i am just sad at the state of discourse is all. i never said anyone was evil or was going to burn in hell or anything of the like. i am just sad that this level of anger is displayed and the history that caused it...

sP

[scarletwoman]

506. Ya know what? Fuck your "sadness"! You have no fucking sense of boundaries.

The OP wrote "That's that." as a reply to my post. It would have been a wonderful ending post to this whole thread.

But no, you couldn't respect that. You just had to pop back one more time with some puerile shit about "the state of discourse". You just couldn't let go of playing the sanctimonous card one more time.

If people aren't going to respect boundaries, they fucking well deserve all the "fuck offs" that come their way.

sw

[ProdigalJunkMail]

508. oh fuck yourself

i didn't read another post that said 'that's that' until after i had submitted this...and guess what, it is a discussion board so you pound your sensibilities out your ass. and whose fucking 'boundaries' have I violated? hmmm...betcha have fun answering that one...

sP

[malaise]

514. See it took 500 plus posts for you to do exactly what you

said I should not do. Now that's hilarious. :rofl: May this thread rest in peace.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

515. wrong...there is a huge difference in responding to someone

who 'violates your space' and someone who says 'fuck you'...please tell me you see that?

sP

[malaise]

518. I don't see the difference n/t

[ProdigalJunkMail]

519. ok...then rock on with your bad self...

would you like to have the last word ? apparently i offended scarlett by responding to her criticism...but now i suppose i should go away before she hunts me down and start screaming at me for THIS response...

sP

[malaise]

521. I'm going back to my book

This thread has been something else but my position remains the same.
To each her/his own.

Peace.

[scarletwoman]

520. Good for you. You finally got real -- at least for a moment.

Too bad you had to scuttle back into your rationalizing defensive mode. But at least it's a start.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

509. oh my...lookout scarlett...

someone else posted on this thread after the all-ending 'that's that'...perhaps you should go be a raging ass to them too...

sP

[malaise]

517. Are you serious?

That response to Scarletwoman says otherwise.

[scarletwoman]

482. Nobody expects

the Spanish Inquisition!



;)
sw

[malaise]

488. This thread is fall down funny

We must be oh so nice to the Jebus freaks. Count me out.

[carlyhippy]

491. Holy balls, 488 posts! This is one of the longest most heated threads I have seen yet

yep, religion and SUV's get people all riled up at DU

what a thought provoking thread, malaise
:evilgrin:

[malaise]

495. I still can't believe many of the responses

If some of them are serious, we may yet see a return to burning at the stake. :rofl:

[DFW]

498. Dave Barry put it so well in his "25 things I have Learned in 50 years:"

"People who want to share their religious views with you almost never want you to share yours with them."

When approached in such a manner while in the States, I usually tell the offending party
to leave me alone--in Swedish. It hasn't failed yet (granted, I have never tried this in
Minnesota).

I was once approached to contribute to a mission for some Americans to go to India to
convert the people of India to Christianity. I said OK if they would contribute an equal
amount for Indians to come to America to convert Americans to Hinduism. For some strange
reason, they did not take kindly to my suggestion.

[malaise]

499. ROFL

:rofl: Great response.

[knitter4democracy]

507. I've stood on street corners passing out fliers about Jesus before.

I've done it on foreign mission trips, too. I didn't like to go up to people. If they came up to me and asked me what I was doing there, I'd tell them and let them look at the pamphlet. If they took it, fine, and if they didn't, fine. Others in the group would always go up and get in people's faces, but that always seemed so rude to me. I know that, when I go shopping, I don't want people in my face, so I'd just stand there with the pamphlets.

I can't do it anymore. It just feels wrong to push my faith on anyone like that.

As for who paid, they probably did with some help from their church. That's how I did it.

[malaise]

516. Good for you

:D

[knitter4democracy]

524. I never got to Jamaica, though.

Dominican Republic to help build a school in a barrio the government said didn't exist, Nicaragua to do children's ministry within the churches already there (a shock to do puppets with kids who'd never ever seen them before), and Russia to fix a mission family's apartment, work at an orphanage, and help the college choir. It's a cheaper way to see the world, and if you can get involved in helping the local people, a better way.

[JeanGrey]

510. Wow. Couldn't a simple no thanks have done it?

That was mean.

[scarletwoman]

522. Religious proselitizers are predators, there's absolutely no good reason to be nice to predators. nt

[malaise]

523. Amen

You earned my last response. :hi:

sp

[JeanGrey]

528. Nonsense. They are no more predators than anyone else.

You should've seen those awful Predators busting their butts at my neighbor's house all weekend (seriously brain damaged child).

[Nye Bevan]

526. I just say "no, but thanks anyway" with a smile

It works just as well, and I don't need to come to DU afterwards to seek vindication.

[HughMoran]

529. Heh, I know how you feel

Sometimes I just don't want to put up with the promoters of what, in then end, is hate.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

530. Wow.

Just wow. What the hell does the Iraq War have to do with anything?