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Florida newspaper declares we are winning in Iraq...only a few "scattered battles" now.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 02:58 PM
Original message
Florida newspaper declares we are winning in Iraq...only a few "scattered battles" now.
The headline is just so blatant and so misleading. I find myself wondering how many will like me consider it just another bit of propaganda in a endless stream of such. Propaganda works, though, and headlines like this one are comforting to those who are not really paying attention.

America is now winning the Iraq War

BAGHDAD | The United States is now winning the war that two years ago seemed lost. Limited, sometimes sharp fighting and periodic terrorist bombings in Iraq are likely to continue, possibly for years. But the Iraqi government and the U.S. now are able to shift focus from mainly combat to mainly building the fragile beginnings of peace - a transition that many found almost unthinkable as recently as one year ago.

Despite the occasional bursts of violence, Iraq has reached the point where the insurgents, who once controlled whole cities, no longer have the clout to threaten the viability of the central government.


I find this paragraph about the number of insurgent attacks upsetting in its acceptance of the "two dozen" a day lately.

Statistics show violence at a four-year low. The monthly American death toll appears to be at its lowest of the war - four killed in action so far this month as of Friday, compared with 66 in July a year ago. From a daily average of 160 insurgent attacks in July 2007, the average has plummeted to about two dozen a day this month. On Wednesday the nationwide total was 13.


That does not take into account the other factors involved. It is just too simplistic to even use the word "winning". It is propaganda.

Obama said it well today on MTP..he pointed out the many other factors in play. The surge was only a small part of any of it.

SEN. OBAMA: Well, the--well, the--look, there's no doubt, and I've said this repeatedly, that our troops make a difference. If--you know, they do extraordinary work. The troops that I met, they were proud of their work, they had made enormous sacrifices, they had fought, they had helped to construct schools and, and rebuilt the countryside. But, for example, in Anbar Province, where we went to visit, the Sunni awakening took place before the surge started, and tribal leaders made a decision that, instead of fighting the Americans, we're going to work with the Americans against al-Qaeda. That was a political decision that was made that has made a huge difference in this entire process.

..."But we can have a whole range of arguments about past decisions--the decision to go into Iraq in the first place, and whether that was a good strategic decision, where we've spent a trillion dollars at least by the time this thing is over, lost thousands of lives in pursuit of goals John McCain supported that turned out to be false."

Obama on MTP


There is absolutely no recognition in the article from the Florida newspaper, nor will there be...of the fact that we should not have been there in the first place. We invaded a country that was no threat to us.

It was all really about what we as a country did

It is about the fact that we have become a nation that invades countries who were not a threat. It is about the fact that before that invasion so many lies were told to the country.

It is about the fact that politicians who were in doubt about it often took the easy way out...going along rather than confronting.

It is about the fact that a hurry-up execution was held, and our media gloated and carried on like we had done something wonderful. It is about how we treated another country's leader by showing a soldier examining his mouth on public television.

It is about how we killed his sons and put their bodies on public display on our television...with gloating.

We attacked a country that was no threat, we executed its leader. It is not about that leader and how "bad" he was. It is about how our country has lowered its moral and ethical standards, about how our media is the outlet for the government. It is about the fact that we lost our credibility in the world.

It is about us and what we did. We invaded a country based on lies, we executed its leader, and we showed it on our television mockingly.


In the words of Helen Thomas who quotes VT Senator George Aiken.. sounds like we are declaring victory and getting out.

Helen Thomas: Declare victory and leave.

President Bush should take advice from a Vietnam-era Republican senator: Declare a victory in Iraq and get out.The late Sen. George Aiken, R-Vt., gave that counsel to both Presidents Lyndon B. Johnson and Richard M. Nixon when things were going from bad to worse in the Vietnam War, but they ignored him.

Both presidents would have looked better in the history books had they listened to the venerable senator. But, alas, neither wanted to be seen as retreating or losing a war.

Bush is just beginning to come to terms with the high human and financial cost of fulfilling his obsession -- the toppling of Saddam Hussein. The loss of life among American soldiers and the bleeding of the U.S. economy are beginning to hit home with the public. The result: There is a new defensiveness among Bush and his top advisors.


That was written by Helen Thomas in 2003. Today we see papers using misleading headlines declaring us victors, just as Bush did when he said Mission Accomplished on that carrier in 2003.

And still there is little but propaganda. The media is boiling everything down to "the surge" so simplistic minds can grasp it...and few bother to dispute it.




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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. And how, exactly, is anyone supposed to refute this "fact?"
No one -- NO ONE -- even Obama or McCain, is allowed to venture beyond the Iraqi Mall of 'Murka, the Green Zone. All of these dumbass congressmen and women who fly over there and return claiming "It's peaceful and nice!" are full of shit, because our military will simply not allow anyone to venture out of the green zone. The media could claim that unicorns and puppies are running free throughout Iraq and we'd have no way of verifying their stories...except through COMMON SENSE.

.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Good point. That's why it is propaganda.
They just make it up, and we have to believe it because there is no real verification.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
2. Impossible! George Bush declared ALL major ground operations in the war
OVER years ago! We WON years ago! Hello!?! Someone answer the clue phone, George a'callin! My freedoms were won years ago, thanks for catching up to the sacrifice meters true number. So good to see it only took 5+ years! Woohoo! USA! USA!
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onethatcares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. the fuckstick declared "the end of major combat operations"
but just happened to leave out Fallujah, Sadr City, Basra, and a few other places. These idiots need the propoganda to keep themselves in some sort of sanity, because they just can't believe we're leaving with nothing accomplished. BTW, read any Krauthammer lately?, the mofo is losing his mind.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. No, GOOD! Those pundit assholes need to go to jail.
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tularetom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. If this true why the fuck are we still there
The "surge" had jack shit to do with anything - paying the Sunni militias to not shoot at us is the only thing that's made it safer. We stop paying - they start shooting again.
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lpbk2713 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
5. The Ledger endorsed Bush both times he ran.



In '04 they were they only (IIRC) daily Florida newsrag to endorse him. The LTTE's
are a hoot to read. It's hard to believe some people can really be that willfully ignorant.

Note to DUers: If the Ledger or Lakeland sound familiar ... the most recent newsworthy event was a couple of months
back. It involved several teenaged girls beating up another girl and then posting the whole thing on YouTube.




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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. This letter in The Ledger from 2006 was so crazy....unreal...pathetic.
"Seven Good Reasons To Keep Our Troops On Iraq Battleground"..scary letter.

It will either make you laugh or cry.

1. We are killing terrorists and Islamic radicals there at a far greater rate than anyplace else in the world. (We are at war with them).

2. More suicide bombers are killing themselves there than any other place on earth. (Also, they are killing civilians there rather than here).

3. Our troops are getting superb experience in the type of battles that
are likely to be fought in the coming years. If we leave Iraq before accomplishing the mission our troops will still be better prepared to fight in the streets of the U.S. when the Islamic radicals rise up and strike.

4. There will be many experienced warriors capable of training new inductees as we hopefully increase our domestic troop strength.

5. Terrorists are pretty much tied up in Iraq, unable to attack targets elsewhere (the U.S.).

6. We are causing Iran and Syria to spend much of their resources backing the anti-American forces in Iraq.

7. The Pentagon has a readily available place to test new or
improved equipment in a real world environment.

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csziggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. Yeah the Ledger is the Faux Noise of print
Polk County, where Lakeland is the largest town and the Ledger is printed, is a Repub stronghold. The home county of Katherine Harris and a lot of the neo-con Florida elected officials.

OTOH, it was also the home county for Lawton Chiles, so it isn't all bad.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
8. I Suppose It All Depends On What They Mean By "Win"
and I suspect their definition of WIN is: US soldiers walk the street and shoot up anything and anyone they want, and no opposition results.

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skepticscott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
9. The question is
if, as all of the Republicans claim, the situation in Iraq will immediate deteriorate if we start withdrawing troops, exactly WHAT have we "won"? Other than the obligation to stay there indefinitely to prop up a puppet government and spend hundreds of billions of dollars more (not to mention who knows how many more lives) in the process?
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
10. The war was over a long time ago. This is occupation and resistance.
It will ebb and flow with violence.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. It was an invasion with bombs bursting and civilians dying.
The world will not forget.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. True. It was "shock and awe" and was meant for people to not forget.
And they won't. Now we are a rogue.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Yes, we are now a rogue nation who tortures.
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populistdriven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
11. This was written by the AP wasn't it?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Yes, indeedy...Ron Fournier's new AP...opinion and bias on purpose
Ron Fournier and the AP...changing from factual reporting to opinion and bias?

I checked all the news services used by that paper today... all AP.

Most misleading or cheerleading.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
13. Great! We turned a corner!
THe Insurgency is in it's last Throes!

I have heard this before.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
15. This is going to be the THEME from now 'til November, so we might as well get used to.
Bush is already "drawing down" so McAnus can keep saying we're pulling out now that the surge is a success.

The only way they'll get off this theme is if the place blows up again. Could happen. But I hope not for the sake of everyone--our troops and the Iraqi people.

Of course, it sure would help Our Candidate.

As Rex said, the war was won a few weeks after it began. It's the fucking occupation that has been the killer. I really wish Obama would start hammering that message.




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fla nocount Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
19. Hey there MF, it's a while since I've responded to a post of yours
Polk County and the Ledger lost all credibility and push when they forgot that this is still Claude Pepper and Dempsey Barron's state as regards values and if, big if, you can get those people to the polls it doesn't matter how many folks have moved here from Jersey. Sadly, Polk County's future will follow BushCo's because of the mutual investment in each the other. Gladly, the St. Pete Times still covers the area. Does the Ledger still carry Charlie Reese in the editorial section? I think the Winter Haven paper still does. I love me some Charlie Reese.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-08 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. It's getting worse under new management.
They print some really right wing nutty letters to the editors, like they never did before.

They are not even mentioning Adam Putnam's opponent, Doug Tudor.

Now and then they do something good, but it is changing rapidly.
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Tulum_Moon Donating Member (556 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-08 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Good news is never good news here!
New troops are being sent to Bosnia and Afghanistan. Peace keeping mission in Bosnia. A full scale war in Afghanistan.
Sadar and his guys are in Iran. People are having farmers markets on the streets with a smaller fear of being blown to pieces. What the do you want?
THE WAR WAS WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT SUCKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But blesses the angles it has taken a turn for the better and all any one can do is complain. We lost many great women and men, they will not be forgotten.

I just hope some here remember my nephew who joined up for the the army last spring. He has been training for many different things. The Army choose him as a Ranger. He fit the body type, and he also graduated 4.00 from high school. He was also scouted for minor league baseball. He is now trained and ready to go fight.
He is on his way to Bosnia!!! He asked me "what the hell am I going there for?" He's going as a peace keeper. I don't know if our Gov. is hiding out soldiers who will come out of the woodwork for IRAN. But I do thin IRAQ is just about over. We may be there for awhile( EXP Bosnia)................................But it is winding down. Now that should be GOOD TO HEAR!!!!!!!
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fla nocount Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-08 03:24 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. Agent Mike, I agree entirely, vote Putnam for America.
As always your concise and compassionate views point the way for the rest of us who don't have your powers of observation or concise vision of the solution.

Please excuse my habit of correct spelling and use of syntax but I was abused as a child by liberals who thought that education, not values and Holy ideals were the way to righteousness and clear thinking.

Clever of you to pose as some nameless GI's aunt, good one, and the subtle reference to the Clenis' war, awesome.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-08 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #25
35. Speaking of Putnam
I did a search of The Ledger the other day for mentions of Doug Tudor, Putnam's Democratic opponent. I found 3 or 4 short mentions.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-08 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. HA
shows where they lean (as do most media outlets anymore), good research. I read some of the comments below your posted story, and they sicken me. They're the typical hyper-nationalist mentality that we seen from these fascist bigots who are eerily like the loon that stormed into the peaceful church service in Tenn.
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fla nocount Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-08 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. It's Polk County and it's environ's
Both old and new money for the most part and much of it Citrus and British. Not much to recommend the region really. Take away it's proximity to Disney and the Fla. address and you're quickly reminded why it's a lately developed armpit. Stark difference between the haves and have nots, more and more so as the economy tanks. The Repugs were good for this region over the last decade so it's no surprise that those who set the tone are slow to on the uptake. As the world returns to normal, and it will, Polk Co. will return to existing as Bubba's armpit and wondering why the kids are migrating to Orlando and Tampa again.

MF, feel free to use anything you feel is pithy. Since I finished the WH Police Station I no longer have a local address for an LTTE.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-08 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. yeah,
and sadly, the part of the county where this paper is at, is I guess, what you'd call the richy area - my gosh, go over a few miles and drive around Funproof (as I call Frostproof) and the surrounding towns of Lake Wales, etc... and you see how poor this county is... totally poor people in shacks.
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fla nocount Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. Loughman's/Davenport
Last to benefit from the bubble, first to tank. Brit banks must be seething in Green Swamp misery.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-08 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. Hey, I kinda like the Bubba's armpit reference.
:rofl:

This is a hard area to analyze. There are many good people who are so impressive, but they are so totally close-minded.

I was raised Southern Baptist since there is one on every corner....but now I am recovering. I know where these folks are coming from, but I can not be there with them anymore.

Before I retired, I never ceased to be amazed at the thought processes of my fellow teachers. How could they have been so totally taken in by Jeb? They were all supposedly good religious folks, but they would sit at laugh at the racism of Imus. I always had to keep my mouth shut to survive.

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fla nocount Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. Winter Haven has new downtown, Lakeland has a new downtown
the county even has something resembling a transit authority. But Polk Co. is not alone in having money pumped into it for the right wing xtian vote. Iowa, Ohio, Michigan, you name a county within a state where a simple population felt unrepresented and cast off and you will find new and meaningless money pumped into an area with no future focus but containing dreams and votes. This might be where the Dem's failed and the Repug's succeeded...everyone want's to feel like they're represented.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-08 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #22
32. Pretending it is all ok is not helpful to anyone. I won't do that.
My heart aches for those in the military who trusted their commander in chief.

But it does not excuse a dishonest media.

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fla nocount Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-08 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. LTTE's to remind them why they can't sell their rag.
It takes a consortium of folks though as I only get published perhaps once a year. They recognize the name and won't print it without an opposing view. Equally vehement and well versed opposing views seem harder to come by though and I suppose that's good news.
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ProudToBeBlueInRhody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-08 02:33 AM
Response to Original message
24. "What!!?? That librul rag isn't endorsing Dubya for a third term???!!"
"Typical librul media!!!!" :sarcasm:
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-08 05:09 AM
Response to Original message
26. It's a sad day when the funny-papers is the most believable thing
in the "news"-papers.
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RNdaSilva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-08 06:52 AM
Response to Original message
27. Check today's news...
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islandmkl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-08 07:20 AM
Response to Original message
28. the people i deal with from lakeland (polk county, which apparently is the center...
of the known universe) are generally the 'well-heeled' (read: country club junior leaguers red-white-and-blue god loves us) who spend time on the island...

from their perspective, it's all good...that war is necessary, though not necessarily for any of them to participate in...well, not in a combat sort of way, but business-wise which 'helps America fight the heathens' over 'there' instead of here....

think joe 'everybodyhasdeadinterns' scarboy and katherine 'hey boys, i thought you were going to make me a senator' harris having offspring (sorry about that) and polk county would be a picture of their family reunion....

it ain't all bad in lakeland...but the yahoos are in charge....
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-08 07:26 AM
Response to Original message
29. Ok, yay, we won. Let's come home then.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-08 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
30. If our country doesn't get over this need to "win" wars in order to make us feel good about ourself
we are soon going to be facing a world-wide catastrophe such as we've never seen before, that is going to consume us.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-08 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. Sad and true.
That world wide catastrophe you mention is not out of the realm of possibility now.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-08 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
31. Across the bottom of the screen on CNN...was it "a bloody day in Iraq"??
I just caught it and thought how sad this is.

There are no winners when you invade a country based on lies.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-08 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
34. Headlines today NYT bomb attacks kill dozens.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-08 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
37. K&R for truth telling! eom
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Phredicles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-08 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
40. The LA Times and yahoo news have been saying the same thing;
Only I thought The Surge was A) supposed to "Promote political reconciliation" when what you have there are ethnically cleansed, walled-off enclaves. And B), it was supposed to make it it easier to withdraw. Only now we're being told that it means we have to stay. Gosh, who saw that coming?
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-08 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
41. even were it true, what have we won?
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