Fire west of Yosemite National Park is out of control

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My beloved Yosemite, the world's best park, could be threatened if the fire moves east. The fire is 0% contained as of today.

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&tab=wn&ned=&ie=UTF-8&ncl=1230370149

[tekisui]

1. It is a most beautiful place.

Hope the fire stays away.

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2. Fortunately they have been doing prescribed burns there for years, so

it probably wouldn't escalate into a megafire if it did reach the park. But it would certainly change the scenery for a long time. (To be honest, I wouldn't mind seeing most of the man-made stuff, particularly the hotels, restaurants and other commercial buildings, burn down and never be rebuilt. It should be a park, not a resort.)

[XemaSab]

24. Re: Let Yosemite Village burn to the GROUND

Amen, Brother, Amen. :toast:

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35. It should just be a park - not a natural Disneyland.

If they have to have that stuff, it should just be on the fringes of the park or in less-important areas. Yosemite Valley feels like a giant temple to me and it should be made pristine again. If I were in charge, I would eliminate all buildings that weren't absolutely necessary, including the Ahwanee, and allow no private cars either. Just a fleet of quiet, electric-powered buses to take visitors from one point to another, like the shuttle buses they have now. The valley would be pretty much silent except for the sounds of nature. Oh, and I would also tear down the dam and let Hetch Hetchy become a valley again, though it would take thousands of years for it to really recover, if ever.

[XemaSab]

37. I totally agree

The only "need" I see for private cars is to get from one side of the park to the other.

'Cause dude, when I lived there, going over to Mono was a perfect weekend trip. :)

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38. You were so lucky to live there!

[XemaSab]

40. The wild areas were nice

But DAMN, the foothills are full of Nazis, freepers, and fundies. x(

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43. They probably never go up into the beautiful places

They just sit in their house, on top of their bag of gold, with their gun aimed out the window, ready to shoot anyone who steps onto their property.

[litlady]

66. Hope Yosemite is spared as I love it so. I also agree about Hetch Hetchy! nt

[XemaSab]

29. Oh, and if God wants the fire to rage out of control in the direction of Wawona

I wouldn't shed a tear for the destruction of that horrific golf course either. :P

[lonestarnot]

3. Damn! I'm sorry bob_weaver!

:cry:

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4. Well, it's not there yet.

It's in the foothills west of the park. But already 8 homes have burned and 20,000 people may face evacuation. The area west of the park is also a tourist area because of the gold mining history (and a friend of mine was in that general area 2 weeks ago with a group, prospecting, and they found 1/4 ounce of gold in one weekend). Last I heard the fire was still 30 miles away from the park boundary. But the area it is in is beautiful and forested, although not the world-class level scenery in the park.

[lonestarnot]

12. 12 homes this a.m.

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13. Too bad.

[TahitiNut]

5. Wasn't there a big fire there about 10-15 years ago?

I seem to recall a large part of the park was involved from when I lived in Silicon Valley. :shrug:

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7. That was the Ackerson Complex Fire in 1996

From yosemite.org: "The Ackerson Complex Fire is the biggest fire on record in Yosemite. It started as 13 separate wildfires burning in adjacent areas of Yosemite National Park and the Stanislaus National Forest. The National Park Service joined the Forest Service in managing the fires on August 15, 1996, when the fires totaled 1,602 acres. The fires burned for almost a month, with many of the individual fires coalescing into one large fire. Final acreage was estimated at over 59,000 acres. Smoke was thick all over the park at times and many visitors left due to poor visibility and air quality."

Also, from January 1-3, 1997, a massive flood swept through Yosemite Valley and the Merced River Canyon. Standing water was 10 feet deep in some places. There are a few markers in the valley today showing how deep the water was. From Yosemite.org: "The Valley was closed from January 1 to March 14, 1997. The El Portal Road (Highway 140) was severely damaged and remained closed until Memorial Day weekend. The Valley lost approximately half of its campsites (about 350), 200 concession employee housing units, over 50% of accommodations at the Yosemite Lodge, and 33 backcountry bridges. Luckily, no human lives were lost." Total damage from the flood was estimated at $178 million.

However these are natural occurrences and don't really affect nature in the same way that they affect people and man-made structures.

[TahitiNut]

9. Yup.... that's what I recall.

I agree with the current thinking that controlled burns are essential for the diversity of the ecosystem that Yosemite represents.

[BrklynLiberal]

6. The first time I went to Yosemite, I just knew that was what heaven must look like.

It has to be one of the most beautiful places on the planet.

I hope that fire does not move into the Park.

[NYC_SKP]

8. There's the greater National Park, then the valley.

The National park is vast, 761,266 acres or 1,189 square miles, while the valley is about 7 miles long and 1 mile wide.

The valley is what 99% of the photographs we see are taken.

It seems likely that the fires will effect the greater park but not reach the valley, though the electricity is out there.

My girlfriend just got off the phone with a friend who was evacuated, they both teach together.

It's very dry out here.

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11. Our neighbors went on a 7-day guided hike through the backcountry last year

So many people want to take the hike that there is a lottery to get in it. They finally got it, and a Yosemite ranger took them through the park and gave them all kinds of information on everything, even collecting berries and making tea from them. The hike stops at 5 huts along the way, where they feed you. All you have to carry with you are the clothes you want to wear. It's all documented at my neighbors' web site:

http://www.travelswithbillandnancy.com/high_sierra.htm

[BrklynLiberal]

16. Wow! That is an incredible site. My heart ached at all the wonderful pics. I want to be there..

They covered every single aspect of Yosemite, yesterday, today and tomorrow.
Yosemite should use that for PR.

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17. Well, by all means go.

Anyone can go there and hike, you only have to have a reservation to get on one of those ranger-led hikes. You can just drive up Tioga Road, park at Tuolumne Meadows, and start off on your own hike. Fall is a great time in Yosemite, although the waterfalls may be dry or just a trickle, the scenery is still beautiful and it's a lot less crowded than in the summer. I'm lucky to live near Bill and Nancy, they are really great people.

[BrklynLiberal]

65. Yup. Will have to make sure to get there one more time....

[Xithras]

23. The Vogelsang camp may be closing permanently.

The water and sewage systems for the camp have deteriorated and no longer meet the legal requirements for providing safe drinking water and protecting against pollution. The Sierra Club and other environmental groups have announced their intention to fight any attempts to rebuild the camp, and since the park really doesn't want to spend millions of dollars rebuilding it anyway, they may just shut it down and let Vogelsang revert to a meadow.

I can understand why they want to shut it down, but the camp is beautiful and I'll hate to see it go. I've hiked the Yosemite backcountry extensively (I live 90 minutes from the park and grew up on many of those trails), and always looked forward to a warm cup of tea and a bit of backcountry conversation whenever I passed through there.

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32. But they'll still let people hike around there, right?

[Xithras]

39. Of course. Yosemite never closes anything to hikers.

The park supes sometimes make things more difficult to access in order to reduce traffic and protect a resource, but I don't think there's ever been a ban on entering a particular area (except for trail closures due to fire, for obvious reasons). If Vogelsang closes, it would simply be restored to an alpine meadow.

In a way, that would be an improvement for hikers. Backpackers are currently prohibited from camping anywhere near Vogelsang (or any of the other high camps) because they don't want tent cities to pop up taking advantage of the camps resources. Hikers are welcome to stop, take in a bite, or hang out for a while, but only people with reservations for a bunk or tent cabin can stay overnight. Everyone else has to hike out at least 1.5 miles before pitching a tent.

If the camp were closed, the area would open up to hikers for camping instead. The number of people in the area would drop sharply too.

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42. OK thanks!

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10. I think it is the most beautiful place on this planet.

There are places in the world that are beautiful and extremely remote, and one of them may be the most beautiful place in the world. But for places that you can get to fairly easy, Yosemite tops my list. And its beauty is constantly changing, throughout the day as the sun changes angles and throughout the year as the seasons change. There is a free movie shown at the visitor center there, "Spirit of Yosemite," which is packed with jaw-droppingly beautiful footage but the best part, I thought, was a scene where they are driving along a road through the valley, and the seasons cycle through spring, summer, fall and winter as they are driving. Obviously they filmed it 4 times, once in each season, but they edited it so carefully that you don't see any glitches or edits - the seasons morph one into the other as the camera moves along smoothly - an amazing piece of filmmaking.

[BrklynLiberal]

14. I have been there in the summer, and in the winter. It is exquisite at all times.

That 7 day hike sounds like it must be an experience that is something to remember and talk about for the rest of your life.

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18. Nancy told me that at the very end of the hike,

the ranger (Adrianna) stopped before they got back to the parking lot and wanted to experience the quiet and peacefulness of the natural world again before returning to the world of cars, roads and buildings. So they just sat there for a while, and Adrianna started crying, then they all started crying. They had really bonded during the 7-day adventure. They hated returning to "civilization." Nancy has kept in touch with Adrianna over the past year and she told her her official work at Yosemite ends in mid-September and invited them to come up and spend some time again informally in the park. How great would that be to have someone along who has such an encyclopedic knowlege of the place, the flora and fauna, how the Indians lived, etc. She hasn't been at Yosemite all that long either - she worked in the New York fashion industry for years before quitting to work at Yosemite.

[BrklynLiberal]

49. Wow! Just WOW!. How wonderful.....I am very envious of all of those people and the

wonderful experience they shared.

[Ichingcarpenter]

15. I just heard on the radio from LA that the fire was started by someone doing

target practice. Anyone else hear that?

[Xithras]

19. Yes, someone was target shooting and set it off.

It's not yet clear exactly how that happened though, since it's not an activity that normally generates enough heat to start a fire. Brass shells may be hot, but not hot enough to start a fire. Lead balls don't typically spark when they hit a target either.

The police aren't talking about it yet, except to confirm that a target shooter accidentally set it off, so it's open to speculation at this point.

[Ichingcarpenter]

25. I love Yosemite and took people there last year-

Photo I took driving up to the valley

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30. Great photo

Ansel Adams-esque. I think the west end of the valley is the best because it's not all built up with man-made structures.

[Ichingcarpenter]

36. thanks, It was cropped and blown up from a bigger photo taken from one

of the turnoff spots driving up. Just made it black and white. I consider
Yosemite sacred ground.

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53. I'd like to see the color version too!

[Ichingcarpenter]

54. The Original Color Shot

[Ichingcarpenter]

56. Taken with a Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ18K

On loan to me from my daughter's old boyfriend.

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58. Thanks

Where exactly was this taken? I have only gone to Yosemite on Highway 41.

[Ichingcarpenter]

60. I need to look at a map.... the camera had 10.1

So it didn't distort in the blowup.

I'll try to find the spot with a little searching.

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61. That must be the northern approach to the Valley, a way I've never gone

The way we go is on 41, through the Wawona Tunnel to the famous Tunnel View. So that's the way we always get our first look at the Valley. I took this picture there on May 22 of this year:

[Ichingcarpenter]

64. Compare our photos.... yours is cool too.. They compliment each other.

I used iPhoto to enhance highlights contrast and the raw image.

[Ichingcarpenter]

62. I found the exact place on Google Maps

Almost the same picture..LOL.... its a small overlook with parking on big oak flat road.



http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en-us&resnum=0&q=yosemite%20park%20map&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

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63. Thank you

[glitch]

47. Stunning. nt

[BrklynLiberal]

50. Ansel Adams - worthy. Exquisite shot.

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21. Yes I did hear that on the news,

but some comments I have seen on other forums are questioning whether it would be possible to start a forest fire that way. Maybe if you were using exploding targets, or you accidentally hit a container of gasoline or something. With "normal" target practice it would be pretty difficult to start a fire going, at least that's what they are saying.

[XemaSab]

27. They've closed our area to target shooting here in Shasta

I'm guessing starting fires is more common than one would think. :shrug:

[Xithras]

31. Probably has more to do with access.

Banning shooting reduces the number of people in the forest. It also cuts down on the incidental fire opportunities from things like cigarrettes, hot car exhausts, and lighting.

[Ichingcarpenter]

44. Usually its the combo cigarettes, beer and what they are shooting at.

Anytime I see 'target practice' usually means not at a range.

I've seen liquor bottles explode if hit just right with the right weapon.

[nam78_two]

20. Sad-it is a beautiful place :-/.nt

[malaise]

22. This is too sad

Which Rethug is planning to privatize this national treasure?

[Reterr]

26. True-very sad

:(
A day of bad news.

[Xithras]

28. That would be Radanovich.

The guy who represents much of the park. I've always wondered how serious he was about that though...his district is a hardcore Rethug stronghold (yes, Yosemite is very VERY red), but is economically dependent on tourism to the park and surrounding national forests. If he were to actually harm the park, they'd recall him in an instant.

On edit:

I should mention that I live in Radanovich's district as well. We try to get him out every election, but he has one of the safest Republican seats in California.

[XemaSab]

33. That dude is SUCH a knuckledragger

I'm up in Wally Herger's district now, and he's another one.

Anyone who thinks California is blue needs to take a solid look at those two clowns. x(

[malaise]

34. Recall him now

:D

[Xithras]

41. No chance at getting the signatures for that.

His district, as I said, is a Republican stronghold. A recall, at best, might replace him with another Republican. Since none are willing to run against him, Radanovich is safe.

The last Dem to seriously run against him aborted his campaign before election day because he couldn't even keep enough money together to keep the campaign running. There aren't enough Dem's in the district to properly fund a campaign. Nobody even bothered running against him in this last election. Nobody.

Most people around here LIKE Radanovich. It's a conservative area, and he's a Limbaugh loving, tree hugger hating, church going conservative. He's not going to lose his seat until he either gives it up willingly, or screws up like Pombo did and does something stupid to piss off his base.

[XemaSab]

45. I thought TJ ran against him in the last election

:shrug:

[Xithras]

55. I should have been clearer.

TJ ran against him in 2006 and aborted his campaign before the election. Cox had a respectable showing for the district, but still lost by a 20%+ margin.

No Democrats bothered signing up for the 2008 primary cycle for the district. It's not "official" until this November, but the lack of any challengers...from either party...in the primary is a de facto giveaway for the district. It's way too late for someone to start a campaign now. When I said that nobody ran against him, I was thinking of the lack of Democrats in the primary. Sorry about not being clearer on that.

[depakid]

48. People used to say similar things about Richard Pombo...

where is that guy now?

[EFerrari]

51. He's history, 2006. n/t

[Xithras]

57. Pombo was defeated by Republican sentiment, not anything we did.

We may like to take credit for defeating Pombo, but the blowhard really defeated himself. I know many lifelong Pombo-supporting Republicans who simply grew tired of his antics and corruption, and they sat out the election. If you look at the actual numbers in the election, you'll see that McNerney really didn't gain a huge amount of new voters in that election. He picked up about 6000 new voters over the 2004 election, while Pombo LOST about 70,000 Republican voters. If those 70,000 had stayed loyal to Pombo, McNerney would have lost by about 60,000 votes.

Most of the people around here expect Andal to displace McNerney in the upcoming election, allowing the district to go back to the Thugs. They dominate local politics and have a numeric advantage at the polls. If Pombo's lost 70,000 decide to hit the polls this time around, we don't have a chance at keeping it.

[EFerrari]

46. Thank you, bob_weaver. When I die, I want to go to Yosemite.

I'll be looking for news for the most beautiful place on this planet. :(

[Squatch]

52. Fire is healthy for areas like Yosemite

and it's only because of poor forest and land management that we look at wildfires as horrible and destructive forces. The fact is, forest fires thin out choked forests, provide nutrients to the soil and stimulate new growth.

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59. You're totally right

and they have wisely been doing prescribed burns at Yosemite for years now. So even if the fire reaches the park I think it's unlikely to become a megafire.

[XemaSab]

67. When I lived there I recall going through the park and seeing signs

"Planned burn, do not report." :)