Nader: Obama supporters are in 'political slavery'

[tannybogus]

During a Sunday press conference and campaign rally attended by RAW STORY, Independent Presidential Candidate Ralph Nader claimed that liberals and Democrats who will vote for Sen. Barack Obama as the "least worst candidate" are actually trapped in "political slavery."

At the campaign stop in Austin, Texas, Nader spoke to an audience of approximately 200 about his campaign's primary issues in the 2008 presidential election. During the press conference -- held in a sweltering classroom at the back of a small, suburban Methodist church -- Nader also directly addressed an elderly white woman as a "political bigot."

"What is your answer to people, including myself, who believe that the votes you get will take away from the Democratic party and ensure McCain wins?" asked the woman during Nader's Q&A with the press. "People who say that a vote for you is a vote for McCain."

Nader grew tense, and his response to the woman was abrupt. "Madam, do you think I'm a second-class citizen?" he asked.

"I'd like for you to answer my question," said the woman.

"No, because that question implies that somehow I am less equal in running for election than two crooked politicians in Washington," he said. "You are a political bigot, wittingly or unwittingly."

http://rawstory.com//news/2008/Nader_Democrats_are_political_slaves_Obama_0728.html

:grr::grr::grr: Can we put Nader & Lieberman in a paper bag and throw them in the Atlantic?

[BOSSHOG]

1. Which begs the question

Who is more senile, nader or mccain? Can't old guys get laid??

[Xipe Totec]

58. To rest?

I wish.

[Captain Angry]

2. Nader is right in that he should be allowed to run, and not ridiculed for doing so.

He has the right to do so. The voters can determine on their own who best serves their needs.

Some voters felt that Perot offered them a better voice in Washington than Bush, Dole or Clinton.

Some voters felt that Nader offered them a better voice in Washington than Gore, Kerry or Bush.

That is the voter's choice.

He says some outrageous stuff. So do other candidates trying to get attention from a media system that only recognizes two national parties.

[speedoo]

6. Nobody's saying he can't run. But if he does run, he better figure out how to address the question.

There is no doubt that he had a role in putting Bush in the WH. Many, me included, will never forgive him for that. And if he calls me a political bigot, I'll call him a fucking traitor.

[Captain Angry]

15. People don't ask him what he would do as President.

They ask him about which candidate's potential voters he'd get.

He is treated like he is the one stealing votes. He is not the one removing people from voter registration systems. He proposes a platform. People decide to vote for him, or not.

To suggest that he is responsible for Bush in the White House is absurd. You need to be upset with the people that manipulate the system. If somebody donated money to get him on the ticket to hurt another candidate, what does that say about the other candidate?

[speedoo]

17. It's not absurd at all. He made it close enough in Florida for it to be stolen.

That's undeniable. What's absurd is implying he has a chance of being elected. He does not.

[Captain Angry]

21. No, he didn't. Some voters in Florida decided he was a better candidate.

What you're really saying is that you're upset that Nader offered something that the voters in Florida 2000 didn't think that Gore offered.

That means that Gore didn't offer it, or didn't get the message out.

His electability has nothing to do with his right to run.

[Mike Daniels]

28. Actually, it's Gore who's most responsible for making it close enough to steal

Most people who were running under the circumstances Gore was running under (great economy, VP under a popular president) would have mopped up someone as uninspiring as Bush.

The fact that Gore allowed the election to get defined in part by "who would you rather have a beer with?" shows how poorly his campaign was run.

[EFerrari]

55. No, they were going to steal it no matter Gore's margin.

That's what they do. Florida is the electoral armpit of this country.

[mdmc]

62. If you only want to beat McCain - vote Obama

if you want liberal, radical, progressive change, vote Barr, Nader, or McKinney.

[Vanje]

75. If you DONT want to beat McCain, vote Nader, .....,

Barr , McKinney ,... .
Hell. Go wild. Write in Leiberman!

[LittleClarkie]

Allowed to run, fo course. Without ridicule would be anti-American

He has every right to run, just as people have every right to say that a vote for him is a vote for McCain. People stating their opinion does not not taking away his right to run.

He should have answered the question better than that.

[Captain Angry]

30. People can state opinions. But they don't get to call themselves "press" while they do it.

If you're going to cover a Presidential candidate, no matter how unlikely their chances, treat them as such.

Asking about diverted votes is not a valid question.

Voting for Nader is not a vote for McCain. A vote for McCain is a vote in favor of his policies. A vote for Nader reduces the pool of votes that will separate the difference between the Democratic and Republican vote totals.

If this worries the Democrats, they need to identify what policy that would make somebody vote Nader instead of Obama. If it's an important enough issue to them, they can bring it into their platform and nullify the reason to vote for Nader. If it's not important to them, neither are those voters.

[LittleClarkie]

32. It was a press conference AND a campaign stop

Where does it say that she claimed to be a reporter? Reading it again I understand that it was during the press conference, but apparently whoever organized it didn't make sure that only the press was there. That's their problem. And it doesn't make her question less valid.

Any question from a voter is a valid question, and if he wanted her vote, he could have come up with a better answer than "BIGOT!"

[Captain Angry]

33. Here's the quote.

"What is your answer to people, including myself, who believe that the votes you get will take away from the Democratic party and ensure McCain wins?" asked the woman during Nader's Q&A with the press. <--

During a Q&A with the press, it's difficult to believe she's not with the press.


He definitely could have used a different term, or kept his cool. But he isn't asked the questions that a candidate for office gets. He's asked why he's wasting peoples' time.

Nader should be defeated as a candidate in the election because Obama has a better platform. He needs to be made irrelevant by his positions, not by his political party.

[LittleClarkie]

34. I saw that, and edited my reply.

But if she was with the press, why wouldn't Raw Story have identified her organization? What was she, a blogger?

Perhaps the campaign was a bit lax in who they allowed into the conference.

Meanwhile, he doesn't get to dictate what questions he gets. If people don't feel like he's a legitimate candidate, he must explain why he is. If people feel like he's wasting their time, it's up to him to explain why he isn't. His answer didn't do that. He just threw a snit instead that likely convinced no one who wasn't already a supporter

[Captain Angry]

35. I thought that was strange as well to not identify her organization.

And you're definitely right that his answer did not help anybody.

I think he gets upset that he's talked about his positions for years and nobody knows because it's not covered in the news.

I'd never vote for him since there are so few issues that he has that Obama doesn't. But I hate to see all the dismissals and anger that somehow *he* put Bush in the White House. Supposedly the progressive voter is smart enough to vote on issues and not on image. But when Nader's name pops up, people around here go berserk. Nobody questions his platform. They question his legitimacy as a candidate.

[Vanje]

76. The news dosnt cover my positions either.

And I've held them for years.
Cant get any coverage at all.
Bigots!

[clovis29]

73. I have always respected Nader

but this year he should stay out of it.

There is too much at stake.

[Vanje]

74. Well, Heck! Why dont we all run!

I'll vote for myself, cuz I know that I best serve my own needs.

[RethugAssKicker]

3. He's absolutely correct !... Whether WE like it or not.

[VP505]

5. True, however after,

what, 40 + years of running for Pres and going NOWHERE I would think he would get a clue that we the people don't want to elect him President.

[speedoo]

9. Correct about what?

That the woman is a political bigot? That Obama is crooked? What exactly are you saying?

[Renew Deal]

11. You should shorten your name to Rethug

if you really believe Obama is crooked.

[still_one]

23. nader is irrelevent whether he likes it or not /nt

[Runcible Spoon]

65. I agree. n/t

[Mz Pip]

4. Nader is

such a demagogue. If anyone is a political bigot it's him.

[The Stranger]

7. I guess this thread was another attempt to demonize Nader.

It is good to see that it has failed. Nader has done more for the Progressive cause than anyone here. In fact, no one here could hold a candle to him.

And the lies that became so prevalent seem to have vanished with "Democrats" like Pelosi covering for war criminals 24/7 and the war-mongering piece of shit Lieberman himself. (I guess that is why the original poster tried pathetically to put Nader and Lieberman together.)

[XOKCowboy]

14. Let's hear some of those things he's done for the "Progressive cause"?

Oh and make it something in the last 20 years. The Corvair doesn't count.

[speedoo]

18. A legitimate request. What HAS he done for the progressive cause? nt

[XOKCowboy]

25. Hey love your sig picture

and your POV. :) I miss Molly.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

38. He enthused it by giving it George W. Bush to hate.

If Nader hadn't run, Al Gore would have been president.

[speedoo]

45. That's right.

But I hated Bush even before he was appointed. So Nader did nothing good for me... did a lot of harm, tho.

[The Stranger]

60. I see you're still propagating the Nader elected Bush lie.

But Nader warned us about the Democrats becoming Republicans once some of them get elected, and he was exactly fucking right. Nancy Pelosi and the "Democratic" "leadership" has been covering for the worse war crimes in this nation's history.

And Lieberman, who has made a career cheerleading the nation's worse foreign policy disaster in its history, would have made sure it all would have come to pass under his own Administration.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

78. I think you're wrong on pretty much all counts.

I didn't say "Nader elected Bush" - that's not a well-enough defined statement for me to assent or disagree with it. I did say "If Nader hadn't run, Gore would have won", which is fairly clearly true.

Nader claimed that there was no difference between the two parties. This is nonsense.

Nancy Pelosi has not been "covering for war crimes"; they've been refraining for initiating inevitably-doomed impeachment procedings. The only difference between impeachment procedings and praying to Zeus to smite Bush with lightning to punish him is that the latter wouldn't help ensure four more years of Republican rule.

And need I remind you that the president if Nader hadn't run would have been Gore, not Lieberman?

If you don't like democrats, that's fine, but you might want to find another discussion forum. Even the biggest tent can't accomodate people who don't *want* to be in it.

[The Stranger]

82. There is another lie that has been propagated by the Pelosi followers.

The idea that somehow impeachment "doesn't have the votes." That is such an extraordinarily stupid argument, that it can only be intended to mislead and cover for one of the greatest political blunders in decades. And yet people seem to swallow the lie whole.

Only a fucking imbecile would go around the Congress and poll them on a vote that has not even been thought of except as an idea.

Only a fucking imbecile would rely on this supposed poll to decide whether or not to uphold her sworn oath to protect and defend the Constitution.

Only a fucking imbecile would claim that this little poll -- which actually probably never even took place -- exonerates her from her duty to pursue and prosecute high crimes and misdemeanors.

Only a fucking imbecile would look at the will of the people, and the unadulterated hatred that has palpably risen from the masses for this President and still claim that impeachment is "off the table."

Only a fucking imbecile would even claim that it is "off the table," forfeiting the best political leverage any Congressperson could ever have, and giving up the ability to use that leverage to implicitly threaten the criminal in the White House if he doesn't let the Democratic Congress get things done.

Only a fucking imbecile would believe that an impeachment vote has to be taken tomorrow, as soon as it is introduced, when in fact it is a political process that unfolds much like it did during the last criminal Republican administration, with hearings, and publicity, and televised debate, and witnesses, and evidence, and questioning, and analysis, and op-ed pieces, so that slowly the pieces fall into place and the will of the people is expressed through their representatives, who, in the end, have no other choice, and the votes that the Pelosi traitor claims aren't there, we find, were there all along.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

83. 67 > 51 NT

[The Stranger]

87. That's cute, but, sadly, very ignorant.

You don't go around and count the votes until after the hearings, the evidence, the testimony, the investigation, the questioning, the debate, the witnesses, the publicized accounts of all of the crimes we have known about for years. That is how it has always played out, going back to Watergate.

Only an imbecile (or a criminal seeking to foreclose real justice) would go around anecdotally before anything at all had happened and then come back and say "we don't have the votes."

Wake up.

[mdmc]

97. oh snap

:toast:

[Quantess]

100. Get educated. (no text)

[salguine]

41. In the last 20 years? Let's see...there's

The Appleseed Foundation, The Center for Justice and Democracy, The Resource Consumption Alliance, The Center for Insurance Research, Citizen Works, The American Antitrust Institute, Commercial Alert, The Congressional Accountability Project, and Democracy Rising, off the top of my head. There are a few others I know I've missed.

[The Stranger]

59. That could be the stupidest post ever here.

I can't believe I wasted my time responding to it.

[LittleClarkie]

27. He's not a demon. He's just a shmuck

Who's time has come and gone.

[tannybogus]

29. Demonize....Hmmmmmmmmmm

No, I posted what he said. If I had really wanted to demonize the man, I would have specifically

taken out after him point by point. I could really try to demonize him and get banned.

Pathetic..Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm I was not putting them together because of ideology or past history.

And simply because I didn't attempt to take out after everyone you deem heretical, doesn't mean I

think that others couldn't do with a good voyage either. And this is not a pathetic attempt to demonize you.

I can see many of your points.

:dem:

[PetrusMonsFormicarum]

8. Votes for Nader

will be votes against the Repug menace, this time around. Same as votes for Ron Paul.

[XOKCowboy]

16. How will voting for Nader rid us of the Repug menace?

Just asking?

[GammaRay]

10. Ralph Nader - A Once Great Man

[helderheid]

12. It's a 2 party system, Nader.

[Quantess]

13. I have an enduring fantasy, of punching Ralph Nader in the face.

Sigh. One can dream...

[Better Believe It]

36. Are You Sure Nader's Old Enough For Ya? He Might Whip Your Ass!

Oh that's funny. The poster thinks he/she can beat up a 72 year old man! Well, he's not so sure about that. It's only a fantasy!!!!

:) :) :)

Here's someone you can have a "punch in the mouth" fantasy about and perhaps even live out your fantasy!

Who knows? You might win!

[Quantess]

46. LOL. One never knows how someone will react to an offhanded comment on a discussion board.

I have to say, your post was even weirder than mine. Plus, I'm a she, and I've never acted violently toward anyone in my life. So, here's to your odd over-reaction. :hi:

[cobalt1999]

19. This is the Democraticunderground and Nader is in opposition to the Democrats

As far as I'm concerned he's the enemy. The republicans know that and fund him to siphon off votes from democratic candidates.

Nader can go hell as far as I'm concerned and I'd tell it to his face.

[still_one]

20. nader who? /nt

[jimshoes]

22. Oh shut up Ralph

[DinahMoeHum]

24. Hey, Ralph - Piss Off, Spam Queen.

Sheesh - what an asshole.

:grr:

[Better Believe It]

26. Leiberman Helped Bush A Lot More Than Nader In The 2000 Election

"Can we put Nader & Lieberman in a paper bag and throw them in the Atlantic?"

Leiberman was Gore's pick for Vice-President, not Nader.

And I think Leiberman had a whole lot more to do with Bush's stealing the election than Ralph Nader.

Leiberman became Bush's enabler. And remains Bush's enabler!

In fact, Leiberman sabotaged Gore's attempt to stop the theft!

Watch the movie "Recount".

If Leiberman had not been Gore's candidate for Vice-President I think Gore would have won the election by a big margin.

So why can't (won't) the Democratic Party expel Leiberman from membership if he's actually a member of the Democratic Party?

[Cleita]

31. Wish that old has been would just STFU. n/t

[Donald Ian Rankin]

37. I think he's a second-class candidate.

Of course he's less equal than Obama than McCain - they have millions of supporters. Suggesting that pointing that out is implying that he's a second-class citizen is daft.

Non-sequitur is the first resort of the desperate.

[LittleClarkie]

42. He has the same problem as any third party candidate

He should be grateful he even gets press coverage at all. Many third party candidates would kill to get even as much as he gets.

[Vinca]

39. What an offensive remark. Can a lynching comment be far behind? nt

[NNN0LHI]

40. Wasn't Ralph doing an investigation into some questionable NBA calls not too long ago?

It was the perfect job for him.

Don

[XemaSab]

43. Why do you hate the Atlantic Ocean?

:shrug::cry:

[tannybogus]

44. Pick a place.

I'm not that partial to that body of water or any other. :popcorn:

[XemaSab]

47. The fires of Mt. Doom?

:shrug:

[tannybogus]

51. Works for me.

Or we could just make them spend their days on "The View."

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

48. He's Such A Disgusting Narcissist. Dumb As Dirt. Only People Dumber Are The Morons Who Follow Him.

Fuck Nader.

[LostinVA]

49. Nader is such an arrogant fake

I actually agree with the Greens on almost everything, and wish like hell they'd work harder to start at the local level, then the state level, then the Federal level -- I'd love to see a bunch of Green Congress critters. But, Nader seems to mainly come out of the woodwork every four years to get his mug on TV. He should have his ass and money out there campaigning for Greens, including McKinney.

[blues90]

50. Well ,well , well , who knew ?

[mmonk]

52. Nader and Lieberman are different as night and day.

[screembloodymurder]

53. He's right.

He has every right to run.

[Booster]

54. Nader really is a Republican isn't he?

[Better Believe It]

69. You Have Him Confused With Leiberman & Other DLC Democratic Party Enablers

Democrat enablers are those in Congress who voted in favor of Bush's right-wing corporate agenda and court appointments.

Are you familiar with those votes?

[Quantess]

98. No, he's a Nihilist.

Put Nader in the same category as the Fundies who can't wait for Armageddon:

People who want to see the United States go down the toilet, ASAP.

[ecstatic]

56. Are there still people who are dumb enough to believe Nader's BS

He brought us 8 yrs of Bush. F*CK HIM!!! :mad:

[Edweird]

57. Fuck Nader.

[mdmc]

61. Swing low, sweet chariot

don't ease me in. don't ease on me. i've been all night long going home, dong ease me in.

Ha! Nader nailed that bigoted granny. In a democracy anyone should be able to vote, run for office, advocate their beliefs.

[Robb]

63. Including that woman, actually.

There are many reasons Nader can't rally support. His inability to answer a good question -- and it is a good question -- is among them.

[Runcible Spoon]

66. it's not a good question, it's a nasty little disengenuous question.

and anyone going to a Nader rally and asking it already has their answer made up in their little heads for themselves. I assume you do as well.

ta ta.

[Robb]

79. I'd have liked to hear him answer it

...Surely he's answered it for himself. :shrug:

[mdmc]

72. no charisma, no corporate donors (other then the GOP)

No media selling a Nader "fairy tale". His inability to answer this granny's question.

There really is no reason to fear Nader. He will make Obama look more middle groundish.

Nader might not be able to rally support, but when people look back on this time, they will see him as a visionary. Nader needs to be out there to talk for those that have been let down by the corporations.

[Radical Activist]

64. Why hasn't Nader stepped aside for Cynthia McKinney? White Male privilege?

Sounds like the guy is really losing it in his old age. Very sad to see.

[Better Believe It]

70. She Won't Get As Many Votes As Nader And Nader Will Help Obama's Campaign

It looks like another token Green Party campaign like the one they conducted in 2004 when their candidate got less than 200,000 votes.

Nader will also be on more state election ballots and so far it doesn't look like Cynthia is even showing up in the polls.

Don't misunderstand me, I like McKinney and I know she got a raw deal from the Democratic Party but I don't know exactly what she hopes to accomplish in her campaign.

At least we know that the latest NBC/Wall Street Journal poll indicates that Ralph Nader's candidacy is actually helping Obama and hurting McCain.

That has really surprised a lot of people, including me!

Did you see that poll?

Here's the link:

Ralph Nader Candidacy Helps Obama Expand Lead Over McCain!: NBC/WSJ Poll
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6546983&mesg_id=6546983

[Radical Activist]

71. Sure McKinney is having trouble with Nader in the race.

How much better would she be doing if he dropped out and endorsed her? Its as though splitting the left vote once isn't enough. He has to further split up even the tiny slice of voters who will go Green.

[Better Believe It]

81. No Trouble At All: McKinney's Just Running A Token Campaign

She and the Green Party are clearly not running a serious campaign. Perhaps she just hopes to have an opportunity to address of few small meetings and get a couple of newspaper and radio-TV interviews before November and perhaps it's a small way of getting back at those Democrats who gave her a raw deal.

As in 2000 and 2004 Nader will again get the lion's share of the left vote, this time probably a bigger percentage and higher total vote count than last time.

It doesn't appear that the Green Party is making an effort to get on the ballot in very many states this year.

So it's just a token campaign like the Green Party candidate for President in 2004. Anyone remember his name?

That being the case, why doesn't Cynthia throw her support Nader? He much better known. That would make even more sense if you want a stronger and more united left vote of people who just won't vote for any Democratic or Republican presidential candidate.

In the end, Nader will wind up on top, Bob Barr, second, Cynthia a distant third or perhaps even behind the various socialist candidates.

[Radical Activist]

84. And Nader's campaign is serious?

heh
Actually, Gore and Kerry got the lion's share of the left vote.

The irony is that not only did Nader fail to make any serious effort to build up the Green Party after 2000, but now that he's running as an independent, he isn't even helping them get official party status anywhere. He has probably done as much as anyone to help the Green Party fail. It reinforces the impression that he's only about himself.

[Better Believe It]

85. Your Information On The Green Party Is Dead Wrong

You need to research it more carefully.

The fact is, the Democratic Party faction inside the Green Party made sure that Nader and his running mate, the best known national Green Party leader, Peter Camejo, were not endorsed by the Green Party in 2004.

Instead, an undemocratic Green Party conference selected some attorney from Texas, can't recall his name offhand, to run a token campaign for President. He didn't even campaign in some major states! Actually, their main campaign activity was directed to electing Kerry. The Green Party candidates told people to not vote for themselves! It really hard to run an effective election campaign when you tell voters to vote for someone else. Don't you agree?

Very little money was raised for the Green Party ticket, they made little effort to get thei token candidate on election ballots and because of their actions they actually lost ballot status in many states for this presidential election.

The alleged Green Party presidential campaign in 2004 was a farce.

And this one will be even more so. The Green Party is for all practical purposes a small and shrinking organization that has no future in American politics. They semmed destined to become a little political sect if they are not one already.

So they are irrelevant in this election and have no political influence.

Why would Nader or anyone on the left want to go to them for anything?

Well, just do the research.

If anyone on DU was active (I wasn't) in the Nader/Camejo campaign or the Green Party in 2004 they can probably verify this information for you. I've never been a Green Party member or supporter so I can only relate information that I've read on the web.

[Radical Activist]

92. I know how divided it was.

And it wasn't Democrats. It was Greens who had a different strategy about the Presidential election and felt it was better to focus on local races, which isn't such a bad idea.
But the fact remains that Nader did no party building work after 2000 and obviously had so little influence inside the party that he couldn't get the nomination. Yes, those kind of divisions are why the Greens have never been a serious party.

[EFerrari]

103. He's not running as a Green. Why should he step aside?

This thread slays me.

[VOX]

67. Ralph, your act now smacks of narcissism -- you were important once, but not anymore...

And it pains me to say that. Ralph, you did some great work for the American consumer in the 1960s and 70s, but now your tired act really smacks of narcissism. It could be argued that every four years, you're bumming a career by performing as a parasite feeding off those same crooked politicians you rant about.

You may insist that there's no difference between the parties, and to a limited extent that's true -- they need $$$, etc. BUT had Al Gore been elected ( and please refer to your handiwork in New Hampshire in 2000, Ralph), I'll wager that our Supreme Court would have a considerably differently composition than it does today. Lifetime appointments, laying down the law of the land. For decades to come.

So, don't undo what's left of your legacy, Ralph. No significant number of people is interested in what you have to say any longer. Your time has long since come and gone.

Just stay at home, please. PLEASE! :grr:

[Canuckistanian]

68. I might be able to respect Nader

If I ever heard a PEEP out of him in a non-election year.

Ralph's top priority is, well, Ralph.

[CountDmoney]

77. I like the intelligent discussion here...

but Nader is a jerk off and him using the word slavery in this context means he's a racist. Fuck him.

[ellie]

80. Fuck Nader

[opihimoimoi]

86. He took money from the Pubs in 04...most likely he is at the PIG TROUGH ONCE MORE

Suckin up all that $will

He really is a POS....$melly one to boot.

[Better Believe It]

88. Fact Check: Kerry Took Millions From Republicans In 2004

And Nader probably took several thousand dollars in campaign contributions from Republicans disgusted with Bush. Kerry did far better on that score. Remember the Republicans for Kerry campaign organization?





So what's your point?

So will you also claim that Obama is "sucking up Republican swill" in this election?

I don't have any problem with Obama, Nader or Barr accepting money from Republicans who are opposed to McCain.

Republicans for Obama

[opihimoimoi]

89. Really?? How much? 465 million? Did Kerry ask for it? This is rich...

[Better Believe It]

93. Millions: Of Course Kerry Asked For It! Why Not?

His campaign staff helped set-up the Republicans for Kerry campaign organization which certainly raised millions. I don't know the exact amount. Why don't you find out?

And today Obama supports the Republicans for Obama campaign committee.

I find nothing wrong with Obama taking money from Republicans who are opposed to Bush/McCain.

Do you?

[opihimoimoi]

96. In your contex, I think not...no probs...but, in Naders case, I was led to believe the monies given

him was to start the campaign..so as to suck votes away from Gore/Kerry...which he did...there is a diff is all I m saying

[LittleClarkie]

102. Kerry got money from Republicans who were going to vote for him

Ralph got money from Republicans who were going to vote for Bush.

[LWolf]

90. The best response

is to nominate someone who will win the votes that would have gone to Nader.

Do you think you've done so this time?

If your nominee can't win those votes, why do you blame anyone other than the nominee, and those who nominated him?

[Lorien]

91. Well, to be honest everyone is a "political slave" because we don't have

election reform or an honest tabulation system. I can't say that I've voted for much more than the "least worst candidate" for any office. I always am given my choice between corporate whore A or B, and the least whorish gets my vote. Look at our "leaders" in congress; they have a 9% approval rating and they know that their jobs are safe because what other choices do we have? Yes, I think the world would have been a much better place if Nader had not run in 2000 (and if the repugs had not stolen it-which they may have found a way to anyhow), but it would be honest to say that we-every voter in America-are only allowed to vote for the candidates that our corporate masters choose for us.

[Runcible Spoon]

95. post of the day.

:yourock:

Love your stuff!

[Hidden Stillness]

94. I Still Love Ralph Nader as a Public Servant

I will just preface this with a note that I have never voted for Ralph Nader or a third-Party candidate, do not support that, only vote for Democrats, etc., and that the comment by Nader, assuming it was accurate, was really stupid and did not answer her, and I agree that Nader has become more disagreeable over the past several years, but I think there was a justifiable reason for it. The fact that the disaster of the criminal Republicans was helped every step of the way by "Democrats" should make everyone angry--I have never witnessed such cowardly, corrupted capitulation by "Democrats" in my life, since the Bill Clinton era!

Anyone stupid enough that they actually do not know what great things Ralph Nader has done, then trumpets the embarrassing news here, should go find a damn book and read it. Most of the automotive safety and other improvement measures were done because of Nader lawsuits--safety belts, fuel-injection, crash-tests, recalls (there were no recalls and replacements of faulty parts before Nader), the "lemon law," safety changes because of explosions upon impact, gasses released into the passenger compartment (the Corvair), headrests, airbags, etc., etc. Nader is responsible for improved stockholder rights laws, (starting with GM), pension protection, food labelling, instructions on prescription labels, the Center for Auto Safety, whistleblower protections, the entire modern consumer movement, consumer education--it goes on and on and on. Almost all class action lawsuits against corporate crime over the past 40+ years has been connected to a Nader group, the "Nader's Raders," etc. Some of the other great citzen-fighters, such as Joan Claybrook and the authors of the books on safe and unsafe medications, Dr. Sidney Wolfe, etc., were Nader proteges. Increased openness in Government and the corporate world, with access to documents, started with Nader lawsuits. On and on and on; one of the greatest public servants ever, and I will not criticize Nader's wonderful, long and completely scandal-free career (unlike Johnny Hedge-Fund, etc.).

I am also shocked that people who call themselves Democrats would, over and over again, turn away from the proof of coordinated Republican vote-count fraud, election stealing, fake criminal charges against innocent Democrats and killed investigations of guilty Republicans, and a thousand other things, and blame Ralph Nader for destroying the candidacies of both Gore and Kerry--when both of them won, and gave up! I would also recommend a little less fake "Obama fan" attitude, and a little more research, if at all possible with corporate media blocking access to it. Obama has ties to the nuclear industry and as a State Senator watered down a bill that would have notified the public of any problems at nuclear facilities. Obama supported Cheney's secret energy panel, voted for "Medicare" Part D, has huge connections to a type of corporate campaign contribution known as "bundling," and actually has a more pro-corporate voting record than Hillary Clinton the Villified.

I understand the anger at Nader and the fact that people are sick of listening to it. I hope, though, that they will not let Nader's wonderful career as a fighter for consumers and educated citizens fade into the mists of forgotten memory because of it. I consider them separate.

[Richard Steele]

99. Ralph Nader should suck a candy bar out of my ass and choke on it.

And the thing is, he'd probably choke to DEATH if that happened.

Because it wouldn't even OCCUR to his entourage to give him the Heimlich Maneuver;
They'd see him turning blue on the floor and immediately break into "action groups"
to discuss the possibility of forming a committee to draft legislation
requiring the FDA to form a task force charged with investigating the
pros/cons of having a "choking hazard" label tattood on my ass.

You know they would.

[Charlie Brown]

101. well, it certainly wouldn't have hurt for him to show a little more courtesy

Seriously, talk about rude. This woman asked a perfectly legit question that is undoubtedly in the thoughts of a lot of Nader's supporters, and he calls her a bigot.

That's not the kind of behavior that helps someone who's trying to push himself as a viable candidate. In fact, his response was offensive in itself.