Never, Ever, Ever Talk to the Cops!!!!!

[Bonobo]

In a brilliant pair of videos, , Prof. James Duane of the Regent University School of Law and Officer George Bruch of the Virginia Beach Police Department present a forceful case for never, ever, ever speaking to the police without your lawyer present. Ever. Never, never, never.

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/07/28/law-prof-and-cop-agr.html

NOTE: Please at least watch the lawyer's video. It's about 27 minutes and may save you an enormous amount of grief. The policeman's video afterwards is also very good but focuses on how police try to get confessions, etc.

[hobbit709]

1. Name, rank and serial number

I don't say nothing else without my mouthpiece.

[WeDidIt]

2. Only ever say seven words to a cop

"I want to speak to an attorney."

All questioning must stop after those seven words.

[lame54]

3. Not even to say "Fuck off"?...

that's gonna be tough

[Breeze54]

5. Not unless you want to be treated like shit!

:P

[Truth4Justice]

54. Showing some respect for the badge goes a long way when dealing with police officers. It can make..

the difference between getting a citation or going to jail. You don't have to tell them anything, just politely refuse claiming that you are enforcing your rights under the Constitution, the same one they took an oath to support before becoming officers.

[Truth4Justice]

52. Being impolite like that is only justifed if the officer uses profanity or threats, IMO.

[TexasObserver]

4. If you talk to them, you give them a chance to lie about what you really said.

Innocent or guilty, you're best to shut the hell up and wait for your attorney.

No one, not even a good attorney, can be effective as his own advocate, and in a criminal context, it's especially true.

[eShirl]

6. then why wouldn't they just lie about whether you talked or not?

[TexasObserver]

8. they could, but if you did actually talk to them, they get information they can use

No matter what you say, you reveal things when you talk to police, things they would not know othwerwise.

If you want to talk to police, that's your choice. If you think you know better than every lawyer and law professor in America, knock yourself out.

There's a reason all advise you to keep your mouth shut. It improves your chances of prevailing.

[Truth4Justice]

53. I ageee and well said. It rarely pays to talk to a cop unless you know him or her.

Having said that I have had a few traffic cops let me slide on speeding tickets back in the days of the 55 Mph limits. Some cops are acctually decent people but they are a dying breed, IMO.

[TexasObserver]

74. there is a harshness that possesses law enforcement now

It wasn't always this way. Under Bush, mean cops have been given carte blanche. They have not been held back by FBI and Justice, but in fact, have been encouraged literally and by example to be abusive.

[Truth4Justice]

75. I agree. There has been a sea-change in the way many cops treat people these days. I hope one day

thay will change but I have my doubts. Police these days are told that "officer safety is first and foremost" which is code talk to shoot first then talk. I was always taught that many jobs come with risks of different magnitudes and work willingly in a job where 600 of us die every year. I expect cops who sign up knowing that they might die on the job, to abide by the same risk factors while on-duty. Is that too much to ask?

[Gman]

7. You got that right!

[MadHound]

9. Foolish advice

I realize that many, if not most cops are worthless scum on a power trip, I've made that argument before myself many, many times around here.

But advocating never, ever talking to the cops is stupid and foolish. Being silent won't prevent you from being hauled in, it won't prevent you from being charged, and it won't protect you from the excesses of violence and bullshit found in many, if not most police departments. In fact by remaining silent you could very well make your situation worse.

There is no cut and dried formula for dealing with cops. In some cases remaining silent is the best policy. In other cases speaking with the cops can be a good thing. One needs to play it by ear, and learn the wisdom needed to determine when to speak to cops and when not to.

Sorry, but like most other blanket type of advice, this advice is foolish.

[peace13]

12. Good luck with that.

If you have kids I hope that you don't give them that advice.

[MadHound]

16. No, but I have loads of practical experience in dealing with cops

In all sorts of different situations, and have learned that there are times to talk to cops, even when you're under scrutiny or arrest, and there are times to remain silent, even when you're a victim, innocent, or not under arrest.

What I'm saying here is that a blanket policy of remaining silent with the police is a bad one. Rather you have to judge each individual situation on what is going on, and then decide whether to speak with the cops or not.

[sammythecat]

67. Yeah, but who am I to make that kind of judgment?

I'm a total rookie dealing with professionals, how can I be expected to make an intelligent judgement call like you're suggesting? The cop in that video showed how he'd eat a guy like me for lunch.

[King Coal]

71. You must not have watched the video.

[High Plains]

24. I know a whole buttload of lawyers who disagree with you.

Hmmm, whose advice to take?

[Tesha]

34. The advice to ask for your lawyer is *ABSOLUTELY SOUND*.

For anything bigger than a traffic stop for speeding,
you should practice, over and over again, saying something
like:

"I will gladly talk to you once my lawyer arrives.
Until then, I have nothing to say to you."

Also learn to say:

"I *DO NOT* consent to you searching me or my possessions."

Don't mouth off. Don't resist arrest. Don't get physical.
BUT NEVER, EVER GIVE AWAY YOUR RIGHT TO HAVE AN ATTORNEY
PRESENT WHEN BEING QUESTIONED BY THE POLICE.

Tesha

[Bobbie Jo]

48. Exactly, no doubt where this advice originated....ATTORNEYS.

:think:

[Tesha]

60. Many of whom, like ACLU attorneys, work for free/cheap. (NT)

[lpbk2713]

10. This is why most of them hate their dashboard cams.

Because the cams show and tell what really happened, and often it contradicts the LEO's version.

Ask RagingInMiami about how they can be relied on to tell the truth. :eyes:

[Truth4Justice]

42. Was told by my attorney that camcorder info often "disappears" if it shows the cop was lying.

[peace13]

11. And never let them search your car voluntarily.

Our retired chief of police told us if you ever get pulled over and are asked if they can search your car, the answer is ...'I have nothing to hide officer but I prefer that you not.' He said that people think they trying to cooperate and be helpful by letting the officers search but that the officers are trained to look for anything and everything. Don't volunteer to be searched in these times. peace, Kim

[Truth4Justice]

41. I'll 2nd that. If you have a used car, there could be drugs in the car that you know nothing about..

Never consent to a search as you lose your rights when you do.

Remember there are many laws that allow the cop "probable cause" to pull you over besides speeding.

Tinted glass, license plate issues, cracked windows and even claiming you weaved, when
you didn't do so are all things these cops can use as a pretense for a stop.

[NYC Liberal]

47. Also remember: EVEN IF they have a warrant

repeatedly say "I DO NOT CONSENT TO THIS SEARCH!" Because if it turns out that the warrant was bad, they cannot go and claim that you gave willingly consent anyway.

[peace13]

59. Thanks for this! n/t

[BlooInBloo]

13. +1

[Trillo]

14. But they taught us in school the cops were our friends!

If the best advice is to remain silent, then why do cops come to elementary schools (they did a few times when I went some decades ago, figure they still do) to pretend to make friends with the class of youngsters?

Perhaps kids should receive visits instead from attorneys, hopefully with fun and short lectures about the law and constitutional rights, and briefly why they're important.

[High Plains]

25. Officer Friendly died a long time ago.

He was replaced by Sgt. Darth Swat.

[Truth4Justice]

44. I agree. We need to have more studies to insure that we know our rights.

[knitter4democracy]

15. Excellent videos.

Entirely worth watching.

[tnlurker]

17. For later

[dysfunctional press]

18. that's the advice my lawyer gave me many moons ago...before he was shot and killed.

"you don't talk to cops- you talk to ME."

that's why they're called a "mouthpiece"

[MountainLaurel]

19. Regent University?

Now there's a high quality credential.

:rofl:

[mod mom]

20. Regent Law School-isn't that Monica Goodlings alma mater?

[progressoid]

21. Yeah, and he jokes about her pleading the fifth at the Senate Hearings.

apparently she was one of his star students. :eyes: Imagine that.

[Gabi Hayes]

46. what.....she could read and write?

how bout her spel?

[trof]

22. Very interesting. Thanks.

[Hamlette]

23. when a cop pulls you over he asks "do you know why I pulled you over?" Don't even answer that!

it's such a trick question, you're damned no matter what you say.

If you say "yes" then you admit you know you were speeding. If you say "no" you admit you are so far out of it you didn't even know you were speeding.

I suggest you laugh, warmly, and say "why don't you tell me." They usually don't push it. (I know not because I've been pulled over that often. I was a criminal defense attorney for many years. I've only been pulled over twice.)

[Bonobo]

26. That was specifically addressed in the video as well!

So you agree with this advice, as a former criminal defense attorney?

[Marr]

27. "Do you mean like, existentially?"

I have fun coming up with answers to that question.

"You wanted to see if the sexy stopped at the shoulders?"

"I look like your dad and you had an abandonment flashback?"

[Psst_Im_Not_Here]

35. "Thanks, and Dick Cheney is an asshole!"

Hubby got pulled over in Wyoming for speeding. The cop gave him his ticket and hubby said, "Thanks, and Dick Cheney is an asshole!" The cop said "Yes he is, have a nice evening." Bwahahaha!

[natrat]

36. it's a fine line....sometimes honesty does the trick and they let you go

but yea if you are up against a bad situation probably best to be quiet

[librechik]

49. I just live true & powerfully in the moment : "These are not the droids you want."

It's always worked for me.

[Evoman]

65. I actually did that once, after I heard about someone doing it.

The cop laughed...and then gave me a warning. I have NEVER gotten a ticket.

[TexasObserver]

37. Say "well, I'm not black, so it can't be that!"

Answer a question with a question:

"Do YOU know why you stopped me?"

or

"Because you have a quota to make?"

or

"You're mad about something else, and I remind you of someone you dislike?"

or

"You want to talk about the constitution with me?"

-----------------------

I'm kidding, of course, but wouldn't you like to give them the "I'm not black" response just once?

I'm a civil attorney, never done any criminal work except to find criminal attorneys for the family members of clients that get arrested. I've never had a single defense attorney say to answer police with anything more than the absolute minimum of information to which they're entitled.

[Evoman]

64. I answer "Is it because I fucked your mama in the rump?"

They always laugh and let me go.

In unrelated news, my broken neck is healing well and I no longer have to breathe through a tube.

[kickysnana]

28. OT Dumping a story to get rid of it.

This is going to follow me all day if I don't get it out so excuse this post.

I lived in St Paul in the summer of 1981. My two sons 4 and 6 and I walked over to the elementary school for the kindergarten round-up. We lived in a poorer area just north of the "ghetto". We were walking home and were at a 4 way stop sign. A St Paul police squad car was approaching from the north and I could see he was braking. Family rule was you held a parents hand until you were 6 years old when we crossed the street. My 4 year old son was a little restless that his older brother was getting all the attention that day so he did not want to but I held his hand anyway. I stepped off the curb he was pulling me from the front. I heard the squad car hit the gas and start to accelerate quickly and I pulled him back hard as I backtracked I could and he ended up falling on his butt behind me. The squad car passed inches in front of us.

I walked home stunned and called the police department to report what had happened. I closed the door and the person on the other end said they could do nothing without a squad car number or license plate. Having never been almost deliberately run over I didn't think to get it.

I treated it like any other incident hoping that my kids would not think that a policeman just tried to kill us but the next day the four year old asked "Why did that policeman try to run us over.". I told him I hoped that he really wasn't, that he had gotten an emergency call on his radio about an emergency and just didn't see us. He told me when he was older that he didn't buy my explanation and that he still remembered it and was scared when he he saw a police car. My kids did not buy Officer Friendly either.

As and aside to my aside. My youngest was always a leader/peacemaker. Even in daycare, on the playground and in school. He was recommended and invited to be in Explorer Scouts future law enforcement and I know that that incident is probably why he did not go that direction.

[Bonobo]

30. Sorry to hear that story.

It's sad.

I lived in Japan for many years. There, people feel happy and comfortable and protected and friendly when policemen are around.

Unlike the US, they have not abandoned the streets in favor of police cars. Every few blocks they have tiny police boxes and the police know the entire neighborhood. Same policeman will be there tomorrow too, so the neighborhood knows THEM. It's really lovely. You can stop in for directions, to say hi, or to ask where to eat in the neighborhood and they are very nice. Never try to intimidate you.

Things could be so different. We could hire different kinds of people to be police. We could make them wear a smilie face on their uniform. But since the confrontational relationship exists with the populace, it will just entrench and get worse. Because the police feel threatened and contemptuous of the citizenry and the people feel threatened and inimidated by the police.

[Truth4Justice]

38. Thankfully you and your children didn't get hurt and you learned a lesson about cops...

..they are like a two faced sword. On the one hand we need them to enforce the laws (which hopefully are just laws which many are not) and solve crimes by detective work.

On the other hand most large police departments are basically a brotherhood that covers up for the bad apples of which there are many these days, who have no problems with treating the public like cattle, as happen to your family.

Now they even have a cattle-prod: the Tazer :mad:

[skypilot]

29. kick

for watching later.

[slampoet]

31. I used to live in a town where once I nearly had to mace an off duty cop to stop him from killing

a person whose only "crime" was missing the wastebasket at Arby's.



Flash forward to ten year later i am visiting that same town and see a person drive a van into the dirt of a construction zone, bury it up to the axels and then abandon it.


I later heard that the van was used to injure a cop.


I never came forward because i didn't want to get the shit beaten out of me for being a witness.

Cops NEVER care about being decent Americans when one of their own is injured.

[Truth4Justice]

39. Nowadays when one of them is shot or killed the police look just like Nazi's in their SWAT uniforms.

surrounding the neighborhoods with armored vehicles and carrying machine-guns.

I am having a very hard time believing that I am living in America anymore.

[Brewman_Jax]

32. Here's a story of a related nightmare...

How Scores of Black Men Were Tortured Into Giving False Confessions by Chicago Police
By Jessica Pupovac, AlterNet. Posted July 23, 2008.

From the article: Michael Tillman was 20, with a 3-year-old daughter and an infant son, when he was brought into the Area 2 police station on Chicago's South Side for questioning. His mother, Jean Tillman, says that although he had gotten into some trouble with the law as a youngster, he had been on the straight-and-narrow, working as a janitor and paying his bills, since he and his girlfriend had their first child. That was July 22, 1986.

He hasn't been home since.

Tillman is one of at least 24 African-American men that the People's Law Office in Chicago claims are still serving sentences for crimes they say they confessed to only after enduring hours of torture at the hands of Chicago police officers under Commander Jon Burge between 1972 and 1992. Although 10 of Burge's victims have been pardoned or given new trials after their illegally obtained confessions were exposed, the vast majority of the 100-plus cases have yet to be reviewed by the state of Illinois. Those men have either served out their sentences, died in custody or, like Tillman, continue to live their lives behind bars, hoping that one day they will have a fair trial.




http://www.alternet.org/rights/92374/how_scores_of_black_men_were_tortured_into_giving_false_confessions_by_chicago_police/

[reprehensor]

33. thankyouverymuch

interesting...

[orleans]

40. Regent University? isn't that where monica goodling got her law "degree"?? n/t

[Midwest_Doc]

69. Must We Make EVERYTHING Political

Yes, Regent is an ultra-conservative school. So what. The messages stated are clear, precise, and well-articulated.

I, for one, am grateful for this post.

[orleans]

72. in answer to your question: YES!

YES YES YES

"Must We Make EVERYTHING Political"

absolutely yes!

(you got a problem with that?)

[Truth4Justice]

43. While I dont agree entirely, we all need to know that the police can lie legally, while we can be..

charged with giving false statements to the police. The best course of action since most of us drive is to learn more about what happens during a police stop, particularly a felony stop where you are ordered out of the car at gunpoint, but also if you are stopped for a minor traffic violation.

It doesn't take much for a cop these days to pull you over to "investigate"
you and your vehicle:

Here are a few good Youtube videos to watch about police encounters:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uV0g5B1blqk&feature=user

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA&feature=user

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJWFAWqzSds&feature=user

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCVnMDy_7nM&feature=user

[TexasObserver]

50. Indeed. Martha Stewart would never have gone to prison if she had not talked to police.

[NNN0LHI]

45. Multiply that advice 1000 times when talking to feds

Feds won't waste their time asking you a single question that they don't already know what the answer is.

Either tell the truth exactly as it is and don't leave out any little pertinent details either or the only other option is just to shut the fuck up.

Don

[ScreamingMeemie]

51. If I had only known that a little while ago when we thought we

were doing the right thing.

[underseasurveyor]

55. Ya know I got in some big trouble years ago

And I wish I would have known this then but I didn't so.... but i was was lucky. VERY VERY lucky.

Anyway my attorney at the time said no matter what, "Never ever NEVER cop to nuthin! Volunteer absolutely NOTHING!" The more you say the more they have against you even if it seems benign.

The other thing I realized is that even though you are provided a Pubic Defender because you can't afford an attorney.. the fact of the matter is... you can not afford to not hire your own attorney.

Had I not hired my own attorney I'm sure I would have been sentenced to 3 to 5 years in da big house for girls:scared:

[Greyhound]

56. Great advise and decent lecture, thanks.

:kick: & R

[JNelson6563]

57. Great videos!

It's easy to see among the comments who hasn't watched.

Julie

[screembloodymurder]

58. I learned this the hard way.

The police can be pretty insistent that you talk.

[Z_I_Peevey]

61. Yes, and they are good at what they do.

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER talk to a cop. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER.

I too learned this the hard way.

[Evoman]

66. You gotta pretend it's a game, because it essentially is.

My brother, god bless his intelligence, is brown...and was accused of a crime he didn't commit (he is a grad student who works for the goverment for gods sakes...cop didn't know that). Politely refused to talk...had no evidence on him, so they wanted a confession. They got nothing, even after they tried convincing them they had dna evidence.

Fucking asshole cops will say anything to get the almighty confession.

NEVER FUCKING TALK TO COPS.

[skooooo]

62. "Can I search your car?"

The answer is NO. Whether you have something illegal or incriminating in your car or not. The answer is NO.

[Indenturedebtor]

63. Thank you for posting. Though it might be inconvenient for things like traffic stops

I'm not talking to jackbooted thugs anymore.

[sammythecat]

68. Thanks for this. Very enlightening. n/t

[Greyhound]

70. Kick

:kick:

[pipoman]

73. Good post

I agree completely with the OP and the sub-thread about refusing voluntary searches. I agree with the consensus in this thread and do not trust the motives law enforcement officers in general. I find it amazing so many here at DU disagree with me that law abiding Americans should be allowed to keep and bear firearms for personal defense and instead favor only allowing these same law enforcement officers use of firearms.

Now I'm not trying to derail this thread or start a flame war, only state my opinion and, in light of the responses in this thread, wonder aloud why many in my party takes this position.

[Liberal In Texas]

76. Good adivce. Everyone should watch both video clips. n/t

[Iggo]

77. Once you are detained...

...don't say a goddam thing except for "I'll be happy to speak with you as soon as I've consulted with a lawyer."