6 week old puppy kills two month old baby in Tulsa, OK

[sinkingfeeling]

http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=8746561&nav=menu682_12_3

Tulsa Police have a lot of questions yet to be answered about what happened, but they believe a 6-week-old black lab bit the baby numerous times. It was unclear how long the baby had been dead when an ambulance was called Monday morning, said police.

The child's father was consoled by neighbors who gathered at the scene. The child's 17-year-old mother was visibly distraught. She was taken by ambulance to Saint Francis hospital to be checked out.

"The parents were home. There were several people home, three people at the time of the incident, obviously that's part of the investigation to determine how this tragic event unfolded," said Tulsa Police Officer Jason Willingham.

Police are not sure how the baby was killed without the parents realizing it was happening. Police say the child was unattended in a baby swing for an undetermined amount of time. They were questioning the child's grandmother, who was also in the home.



*******************************************************************

I heard this morning that this puppy and a small Pug were both 'put down'. My question is do you think there's more to this than what is in the article? Why did none of the 3 adults check the baby or hear crying or sounds of a dog attack? Where were they?

[snooper2]

1. In the back room

shooting or snorting meth

[fl410]

29. Possible but that's a pretty upscale neighborhood. Very strange story (near my family home)

http://www.zillow.com/search/RealEstateSearch.htm?addrstrthood=10202+s.+evanston&citystatezip=tulsa%2C+ok#view=ver%3D1%26op%3Dsearch%26scen%3Ds1%26map%3D(Aw%3AAN95947221!As%3A36014160!Ae%3AAN95944636!An%3A36015749)%26mode%3D(zoom%3A17!sortANdir%3Au!sortANparam%3Ax20)%26citystatezip%3DTulsa%2C%20OK%2074137%26addrstrthood%3D10203%20S%20Evanston%20Ave%26loc%3Dmap

[snooper2]

44. Well, to go ahead and sterotype..

They live in Tulsa, the grandmother has a huge cross tat on the arm, Father has a pink mullet, and the mother who looked really upset is only 17

[fl410]

47. Well to be honest that's not really all so much of a stereotype. I'm an Okie and see it a lot

:D

[madokie]

143. Welcome to the DU fl410

[DailyGrind51]

149. Remember the story about the couple who kept a big Burmese python

in the same house with their newborn? I don't need to amplify here, do I?

[MsTryska]

2. question?

how come we get the mother's age and not the father's?

[malaise]

3. Would you leave a two month old baby unattended in a swing

Am I to believe that no one heard the baby crying. Strange story.

[YOY]

5. Snooper may be right...

You'd have to be insane or wasted to not notice that.

[malaise]

8. That's for sure n/t

[ScreamingMeemie]

156. snooper is wrong...and a poor example of compassionate liberalism.

Let's hang them shall we?

[YOY]

186. Since we don't have the facts we cannot say either...

n.t.

[ScreamingMeemie]

188. I think you need to check on the updated story YOY. snooper is, indeed, wrong. n/t

[YOY]

192. Ah indeed so he is.

It had the first taste (incorrectly so) of some seriously poor parenting.

I guess sometimes a tragedy is just a tragedy.

[gatorboy]

11. Two months seems awfully young for a swing.

[Warpy]

13. Swing-o-matic

Some of them come with a cradle for infants. You wind them up and they swing the kid back and forth for about half an hour. That lulls the baby to sleep and allows Mom to do things like take a shower.

If the first bite had been to the kid's neck or any other critical place, the kid wouldn't have cried and alerted the parents.

However, the lack of information with this story makes it sound a little fishy. It's still a horrible way to lose a child.

[Maine-ah]

18. ours is battery powered

and I would put my 2 month old (now 20 mos) in it and put it in the kitchen while I did dishes. It has several settings, and I'd put it on the lowest. It usually lulled her to sleep. Though I never ever left her unattended.

[rebel with a cause]

127. If this is an infant swing

like I had for my son some twenty-eight years ago, how did either of these dogs reach the baby? They would have had to knock the swing stand down and then get to the baby, and this should have caused enough noise to alert anyone. That is unless it is different in its height. :shrug:

[FedUpWithIt All]

169. The swing i use with my son is low enough for a young dog to jump into.

They are rather lower now than they were when my oldest was a baby.

http://www.gracobaby.com/catalog/product.aspx?modelNumber=1G00SWP&campaignID=16

This is the one we use. A small dog could easily sit atop a baby in the cradle seat and make little noise getting there.

[depakid]

172. Sharp puppy teeth and the femoral artery

Wouldn't take much pressure.

[ScreamingMeemie]

56. When I was 19 I did a lot of things that I shouldn't have, with regard to

my daughter. No, I wasn't a meth addict, drunk etc. I was a kid. This child's mother is 17 years old. Let's reserve judgement. Sometimes bad things happen, that could have been prevented, but weren't encouraged.

[FedUpWithIt All]

170. Thank you Mrs. Grumpy. I have noticed you being a voice of reason a couple times...

in the past few days.

I agree with you.

[Maine-ah]

176. I agree with you in respect to the mother of the child

but wasn't the grandmother and the father of the child there as well?

[geomon666]

80. That's what happens when you have kids as parents. n/t

[ScreamingMeemie]

184. Luckily my daughter survived. It also happens sometimes when you

have "grownups". Really horrific accidents, the kind that create "if only" situations, happpen every day.

[AZBlue]

152. I agree. I think the parents need to be investigated.

[FedUpWithIt All]

171. I have. I do not have a dog but i DO leave my infant sleep (strapped) in his swing...

while i am in the other room to cook or take a quick shower. I have four children and have done this with all of them. If it were not for the swing i would have gotten NOTHING done during the children's first few months.

[maxsolomon]

4. sounds like a severed artery

given the age of the dog, it was likely play behavior. puppy teeth are sharp.

[TwilightGardener]

6. Well, it could happen, because two-month-olds are small and have weak

necks, and even small amounts of blood lost can have a big impact on an infant--so the poor baby either suffered probably a spinal cord injury or went into hemorrhagic shock. The parents were MIA--there's a real red flag here.

[Barack_America]

7. Or the baby died from sitting in that swing unattended for so long....

And the bite marks were the work of the dog sensing something was wrong and trying to revive/help the baby.

There's always an alternate explanation.

But there's no excuse for leaving a child unattended like that.

[Barack_America]

9. Replying to my own post to say I sense something even more sinister here...

Such as child abuse that led to the child's death.

[cliffordu]

22. Yep. I find it difficult to believe a puppy that age has the teeth and strength

to kill an infant.

[TahitiNut]

10. A puppy that's 6 weeks old is a red flag right there.

No puppy should be removed from the litter until the 49th day (7 weeks). Puppies learn a LOT in the litter and studies (by Leader Dogs for the Blind) have shown behavioral dramatic differences in puppies removed too early or too late.

Clearly, NO infant should be left unattended ... ESPECIALLY with other animals (of any kind) present. IMHO, it's negligent manslaughter to do so.

[Gormy Cuss]

28. The mother's young age is probably another contributing factor.

Not all seventeen year olds have enough common sense to see the potential danger in leaving an infant alone with a dog.

Very sad story.

[susanna]

39. Absolutely on all counts.

My former dog had serious aggression issues that I believe were related to her being dumped on the roadside at 5-1/2 weeks old. I thought she was older (big girl), took her home and then to my vet. He questioned me intently where I had found her. I told him, and he said, "I was asking in case someone gave her to you. She is far too young to be removed from her litter. There will likely be behavior issues because of it." And there were. A ton of them.

And as you also point out so well, children and pets need constant supervision. I don't care how good the pet or kid are, it's just foolish to not be in control of their interaction at all times. Just tragic. :-(

[Boudica the Lyoness]

173. I bought my airedale at 5 1/2 weeks old

She was from a litter of 12 pups. Poor mother. Anyway she's 6 now and is a lovely dog. She bonded with us and is the best doggie ever.
Puppies have such sharpe teeth I would never let a pup near a baby yet these people left the baby alone with the pup!

[susanna]

190. I am so glad your airedale did well.

She sounds like a lovely dog. And you're right. Puppy teeth are the worst! I can't believe how needle-sharp they are. Owwwww just thinking about it. :-)

[MiniMe]

42. I agree. All puppies chew, and they will chew whatever is available

Also, in a lot of places puppies have to stay with their mothers until 8 weeks. It could happen, I guess, but the only thing the pup should be able to reach is the feet. I think, I don't know those swings at all. But breed or whatever is not a factor here. And I am suspicious about it too. I will wait to see what happens before I form a real opinion on it.

[mod mom]

46. Could a 6 week old puppy even get up on the swing to do this damage?

and a lab-no less-what breed is better w kids than labs? I sense there is more to this story.

[TahitiNut]

53. Well, at 6 weeks it's weaned and on solid food.

Any dog can bite and chew. (I'm the world's biggest fan of Labradors, bar none.) But dogs pulled from the litter aren't getting the bitch's training and guidance - not to mention the socialization of the litter-mates. It's almost impossible to overstate how important that time is for pups. That said, I'd sure take a close look at the pug. Something still doesn't make sense. At 6 weeks, the Lab puppy is fallover awkward but tenacious. At the same time, they are easily distracted and still get tired and take naps at the drop of a dime.

[mod mom]

63. I have a lab/pitbull mix from the pound who is 80 pounds of pure love. I'm sure

how a dog was raised in the early stages is important, but as someone who volunteers at the dog shelter walking dogs, I have never come across a lab that was even slightly aggressive. Pugs on the other hand...(I guess I'm biased, but i sure would like more details on this case.)

[fl410]

74. When our Lab pup was about 8 weeks, he ate the seat off the golf cart.

Just ripped it apart like it was nothing. I can't imagine he would ever have chewed an infant but when they're teething most anything seems to be fair game. Oh, also chewed many garden hoses in half when I would forget to put them up high. Took about a year to get over that phase.

[TahitiNut]

79. Yup. From about 2 months to 1 year, Labs love to chew.

Shoes, windowsills, shelves, furniture ... I had to put a wire muzzle on my (beloved, late) Lab when he was 'Home Alone' to keep him from chewing the house. (A properly fitted muzzle is NOT 'cruel' and he could drink water and bark.) After he was about a year old, he learned to gnaw on ONLY his rawhide chews. At the same time, as a Lab, he had a "soft mouth" on retrieves. We could play "catch" with the Frisbee endlessly and he never gnawed on it. After years of play, it had very few teeth marks at all.

[rebel with a cause]

130. I agree with you about what age the puppy is suppose to be weaned.

But that puppy looks older than six weeks. It still looks too young to be 'mauling' anyone, and labs are usually not vicious although they are biters and chewers as puppies.

I also agree that the baby's death is the fault of the adults in the house and that a baby should not be left alone with animals of any kind.

[TahitiNut]

153. A purebred Lab puppy is about 18-20" nose-to-rump at 49 days.

IIRC, Bo (my Black Lab, may he RIP) was about 12-16 lb. at that age. (I think in terms of a bowling ball's weight.) I agree that the photo seems to show a pup that's a bit larger, but photos can be deceiving and some pups are a bit larger. Males are larger than females and British bloodlines are slightly larger than American bloodlines. Bo was line-bred F.C. American bloodlines.

Lots depends on how the puppy was bred and whether it's AKC or hybrid and such. News stories can say "Lab" and be wrong ... just because it's all black. (People used to say "he sure is BLACK, isn't he?" Closet racists, I think ... as though "black" is bad or scary or something.)

[rebel with a cause]

162. My dog is a mixed lab and spaniel/retriever and a female.

At that age she was a little butterball and did not look that mature. She is long haired like a spaniel/retreiver while her sister is short haired and looks more like a lab. They are both black with the classic 'mix' white mark on their chest. Both dogs are attention getters, but mine makes people look twice. She looks like a 'flat haired labrador/retriever'. We got them from a farmer whose dog had a litter. In fact, mine was brought to me by a co-worker and became my personal pet by strange circumstances. After my daughter saw her, she lived on her own then, she just had to have a puppy also. That was ten years ago and we still have the two ladies.

And yes, people have been afraid of them because of their blackness also. The worst dog I ever had for biting was a white poodle. These big scary pooches have never biten anyone, although they bark a mean bark sometimes.

[LuckyLib]

161. IMHO, that pup looks older than 6 weeks. More like 10-12 weeks.

While there are certainly different sized pups within the same breed, that one has long legs for a 6 week old.

[kestrel91316]

12. I am appalled that the puppy was put down for this. Seriously.

A 6-wk-old puppy is a TODDLER in human terms. It doesn't have a mean bone in its body at that age.

Probably just playfully gnawed on the baby and opened up an artery. The real crime here is that the parents left an infant alone with an animal, which is something you NEVER do, because this sort of tragic mishap can occur.

How much meth were Mommy and Daddy doing that day???

[Xenotime]

26. Exactly. It's a sad shame at the loss of a sweet animal.

It's the parents that should be locked up.

[MountainLaurel]

59. Or put down n/t

[The Stranger]

41. But ignorant humans have this kneejerk, reptilian reaction to kill it, no matter how irrational it

is to do so. Because of some criminally irresponsible adults, that child and that puppy's little lives never even had a chance.

But they'll blame it on a vicious dog. Just watch.

[ScreamingMeemie]

57. This is what irritates the hell out of me.

I have never been a Meth addict, thank you... and yet, I did make stupid decisions at 19 when I was first a mom. Listen people, sometimes bad things happen. Let's not become that which we are supposed to despise...the judgemental. Believe me, I've been judged a lot for what I did/didn't do in the last year and I am really sick of comments like this on a "progressive" board.

Thanks.

[GCP]

110. You and me both, sister

I was 24 when I had my first and I made some really stupid decisions with him, but we managed to bring him up safely.
Lumping these poor parents in with boozers and meth heads is judgmental crap which belongs more on FR than here.
Sometimes I wonder what's happened to this board.

[rebel with a cause]

136. the grandmother was not a teenager

and yet she was in the house when the baby was left unattended. And while mom and dad were crying, grandma was over by the garage having a cigarette. Sorry, but this is not the reaction I would expect from a mother in the scene of emotional chaos that was shown in the film. Perhaps I am judging her too harshly, since I am not a smoker, but I know I would be consoling my child or something in this situation.

[ScreamingMeemie]

155. Turns out both the mom and the grandma were sleeping.

As one who smoked packs of cigarettes the day my husband died, I guess that makes me unconcerned. And no, I never smoked like that in my life. In fact, as I was sprawled on the floor of the police dept. I was wondering if I left the coffee pot on when I had left in a rushed attempt to save his life. Shock works in strange ways. It is not for us to judge.

[rebel with a cause]

163. you are taking this way too personal.

The smoking was not the whole point, it was the manner in which she was behaving. I have enough knowledge of behaviors to tell the difference in shock and inappropriate reaction. And if your child was crying hysterically and you were off smoking, then yes that would make you appear unconcerned. I have dealt with death, and I know that you do not always think rationally during that time. Your thoughts about the coffee pot are actually very normal for most people during a time such as what you were going through. Your mind looks for ways to bring your world back to the mundane when you are in shock, a way to gain control.

I have also dealt with raising children and know that you can make mistakes that you always regret. I do not judge people for mistakes. But there is the fact that a two month old was left unattended in a part of the house separate from the 'sleeping' adults for one and a half hours. If nothing else this was very poor judgment. When you have worked in child welfare, it is hard to not look at the whole picture as to how it affected the child. I will hold my "final judgments" until the whole story is out, because it is still too early to know for sure.

By the way, in my state this would be considered neglect and someone could be prosecuted for it. It would be left up to DCFS, the police and the Prosecutor in that county on what would be done. There will be an investigation.

[ScreamingMeemie]

164. You don't get to decide what, or what I am not doing. Thank you.

Poor judgement? Yes. I never said that. Assuming as many have, that these parents were meth heads is a disgusting example of just how judgemental and uncompassionate us liberals can be. Don't like how I take things? I suggest you use that little ignore button. Thank you. Walk a mile babe.

[rebel with a cause]

165. I have walked so many miles.

that I now have blisters from walking in other people's shoes. I was being understanding of you, telling you that we all make mistakes that we regret. I was only pointing out that you were taking it too personal because it was upsetting to you. You are not walking in their shoes, you are putting them in yours. There is a difference.

I did not call them meth heads or anything else. I did state that their behavior bothered me. That is my personal opinion. Now if you don't like that opinion, then I suggest you use the ignore button because you are the only one who is upset and attacking others in your own defense while you are not being attacked.

[ScreamingMeemie]

167. But not in my shoes. Nice deflection. I'm fine with you. Just don't tell

me how I should or should not react...how personally I should or should not take something unless it's my shoes you walked those miles in. Clear now? I am calling those out who ride those high horses into DU. I'll continue to do it, whether it hurts your poor little sensibilities or not. I am sick for this family, that baby and that puppy. I'll continue to be so.

and I quote you..."Sorry, but this is not the reaction I would expect from a mother in the scene of emotional chaos that was shown in the film." I don't believe that women's shoes are yours either. That m'dear, was a judgement passed. She didn't act they way "you" wanted her to. Just as I haven't. Learn that you cannot control what others think or feel and perhaps you'll be better off. Maybe not. Who knows. Again, not for me to judge.

[rebel with a cause]

168. Hahahahahaha

I have a degree, training and years of experience working with abused children and their abusers. I am not basing my opinion on my own experiences. When you do that, base things on yourself, you lose your objectivity. I do not say I am walking in your shoes because frankly I don't know enough about you and your experiences to do so. Just as I do not know enough about the family on the news to do so and you do not know enough about them or me to so.

They may be only guilty of bad judgment and they may be guilty of much more. That is up to the investigators to find out. Until there is a finding on the case, I will hold off on giving them anything but a bit of attention. My sympathy goes to the baby and the puppy, because they are both dead.

And go ahead and quote me. It is not the reaction I would expect of a mother whose child has just lost a child and is in hysterics. That again is based on my education, investigative training and experiences. I am not walking in her shoes, because I do not know where her shoes have walked. Personally, I don't care how you act. We are on a thread on a message board. What you do or do not do does not affect me after I leave here. And frankly, I don't want any control over any one else. I "walk miles" to not have control over anyone else. I have had to control too many things in my lifetime, I sure don't want any more. And for someone who is not to judge, you judge much, too much. Now you have a good night. I know I plan on doing so.

[ScreamingMeemie]

180. And I have stood on the side of the accused. And really, none of it's

funny to laugh at. No, it's not for me, or you, to judge. BTW, I didn't react in any way that you would "expect" when I lost my husband. I want you, who knows so much, to think about how one's mind protects itself from going insane at times like this. Try putting yourself in someone else's shoes, as I've mentioned before. No, I don't find any of it funny enough to laugh like you. But not for anyone to judge.

BTW, the mom's in the hospital this morning.

[rebel with a cause]

181. Good luck. n/t

[ScreamingMeemie]

182. to you as well. Society is a sad place

[NashVegas]

187. It's Exactly What I Would Expect

Of someone of a lower social class who was dealing with incredible stress and grief, and not well-enough educated in social niceties to understand that it's not wise to sneak off for a smoke while news media are nearby, because others - especially those who want to think of themselves as "better" - watching a news video of them might see it and make value judgments.

[ScreamingMeemie]

189. and then sometimes, that lower social class ( I guess which I am one of)

is in too much shock to realize what is even going on. A shock of that magnitude and most people aren't even mentally there.

[semillama]

14. WTF

They put down both dogs? That sounds like a huge over reaction to me. It's horrible that the baby died, but you can't assume that the dogs are dangerous when it seems obvious it's the fault of the parents that they 1. left a 2 month old baby unattended and 2. had a 6-week old puppy unattended. The puppy didn't know what it was doing was wrong and at that age, it could have been rehabilitated (or just habitilated period) pretty easily. Putting down the pug is just overkill.

I think this is a clear case of criminal neglect on the parts of the parents. I hope they get prosecuted to the full extent. maybe I'm letting my pug ownership and upcoming fatherhood bias me here, but this really pisses me off.

[hedgehog]

15. How high off the ground was the swing? The baby swings that were around

15 or 20 years ago held the child's butt about 2 foot off the floor with the feet and legs dangling. Unless this was one of those little chairs that sits right on the floor, how could a pug or puppy even reach the child?

[RebelOne]

32. I was wondering about that also.

[FloridaJudy]

58. As was I

Something about this whole situation sounds off. There were three adults in the house, and no one was watching the baby? I can see leaving a baby alone for a few minutes to use the bathroom when it's just one person, but not if others are around.

It's a really sad story, whatever happened.

[OwnedByFerrets]

16. Typical bullshit....kill a puppy for probably playing.

Shit, we are a fucked up country.:mad:

[johnaries]

17. Black Lab puppies should be bred out of existence.

:sarcasm:

Sorry, I had to do it before someone else did. Very sad about the baby. And yes, there probably is a lot more to this story. Why were both dogs put down?

[uppityperson]

That poor kid, what an odd thing to happen in a short life. Regarding breeds of dogs

I don't know, it looks like a pitbull puppy to me. :sarcasm:

What an odd story and freakish thing to have happened. Very sad all the way around. I cannot begin to imagine.

[Peregrine Took]

19. Do we really need articles like this? Other than to depress people - what

purpose to they serve? Thanks for ruining my day.

[RebelOne]

38. Well, you didn't have to click on it.

You saw the title, so why did you even read it?

[spinbaby]

20. There was a story like this a couple of years ago

I don't remember the details, but do remember they blamed an infant's death on a puppy and the story turned out not to be what it seemed at first.

[GreenPartyVoter]

21. Poor baby! Poor puppy! *crying*

[Dangerously Amused]

23. Hmmm. I'll wait for the autopsy.

Too many things not adding up at this point, and blaming the dog would be a good way to cover up a shaken baby death. As one who has been trained to investigate such matters, I'm just sayin.'

[AlCzervik]

31. i watched the video and they said there would be an autopsy, i'm guessing they'll try and match the

bite marks? This story is tragic but something doesn't add up. I don't know that much about dogs but that black lab looked awfully small and at 6 weeks wouldn't it's teeth be pretty small as well?

[dflprincess]

48. The teeth would be small - but puppy teeth are sharp

and puppies will gnaw on anything - not unlike human children go through a phase where they put everything in their mouths. I doubt very much there was any aggression in the puppy's actions.

[Dangerously Amused]

50. My guess is that the bite marks will match.

My question is whether the baby was alive at the time of the bite injuries. Sorry if I seem overly cynical or callous or whatever, but I've worked in law enforcement and have seen all manner of people trying to cover up child abuse as something else. And there are a lot of red flags in this particular case.

Time will tell.

[AlCzervik]

51. i agree about the red flags, something is just off.

i guess anything is possible but the lack of detail is maddening.

[rebel with a cause]

142. The amount of blood present should

attest to whether the baby was alive when the biting occurred. But I agree that there are red flags in this case. The grandmothers behavior seemed odd to me and very out of cinch. There were also questions about the father's facial expression also. I'm sorry, but I'm more prone to look at behavior for clues as that was part of my training and it comes natural to me. I'm no expert, I just play one in my posts. ;)

[IndyOp]

73. Shaken baby sounds like a very strong possibility... (n/t)

[Caoimhe]

24. Something along these lines happened to a friend of mine

His wife and her sister were "introducing" the new baby to the dog. The dog had been with the couple for years, was very large and aggressive with everyone but them. Real smart, eh? Mom held the dog on a leash while her sister held the baby, they tried to let the dog sniff the baby and the dog pulled the leash away and chomped the baby's head two or three times before they could wrest the baby away. Lifeflighted to the hospital and luckily the little boy lived, but the parents were so freaked out after having so nearly lost their child that they put the dog down that day. I know this is far different than a puppy. It's one of those stupid things that a friend did, and no matter how many times you tell them it was stupid, they couldn't "undo" it once it happened. I think their own pain and fear was enough punishment, and they became pretty attentive parents after that. The boy is now 7 and has a few scars on his head, but his hair covers them.

It can and does happen. Animals have instincts that we should respect. Even the most loving family dog can view a newborn as a threat. I hope there isn't more sinister things to this story. I feel bad the puppy got put down. Why so many people feel they need to get puppies is beyond me. You can find loving family trained dogs at your local shelter. They might not have "purebred" papers-- but you will be saving their life. Mutts are the best dogs to have imho. And they don't usually have the health problems purebreds have.

[Maine-ah]

40. we introduced our dogs by my husband going home

with the blanket the hospital had given us for her so that they could sniff it. We also let them explore her room and all of her things before she was even born. Our choco lab died last sept. but our other lab mix is fabulous with her, but we still never leave her unattended with the dog.

[Maddy McCall]

25. That lab puppy did NOT kill an infant.

Are these investigators retarded? There's no way that a labpuppy at seven weeks old, with tiny milk teeth, could inflict lethal wounds on an infant.

If either dog did it, it would be the pug...if you look at the video, the pug appears to have large nipples...dogs in heat or in early pregnancy can be very easy to aggitate.

There was no reason to put down that lab puppy.

There's much more to this story than is being told.

[AlCzervik]

27. That poor baby :-(

we had a swing for our daughter when she was very small but you really couldn't put her in it until she was about 6 months old, i know they have better swings now that are maybe ok for infants but really, you don't leave any baby in a swing unattended in my experience. This story is just tragic.

[My Good Babushka]

30. How did I guess

Everyone would be getting their knicker into a twist over a couple of dogs? This is a good lesson that no animals, no matter how young, should be trusted around babies.

[Maddy McCall]

33. You are correct, that no infant should be left with dogs.

However, I think that most people are disgusted that a seven-week-old lab puppy has been blamed for the death, when anyone who deals with dogs of that age knows that it just isn't possible.

[YOY]

35. I swear some people here are more concerned about the dog than the baby.

I feel bad about the puppy and all but JEEZE LOUISE!

[truebrit71]

37. I am...if the parents were stupid enough to leave the child alone...

...shit happens...the puppy was just being a young dog...and it gets murdered for it...Really fucking nice...

[sinkingfeeling]

36. Maybe the lesson is some people shouldn't be allowed to produce babies! 3 adults in a house and

no one watching the child!

[AlCzervik]

43. i think the fact that the house was full of people and no one heard a thing is

what sounds suspect, it's tragic all the way around.

You don't leave babies alone period, end of story.

[XemaSab]

99. Seriously

I can see a puppy that age nipping a baby, but I can also see a baby that age SCREAMING in response.

[MiniMe]

60. I am livid at the parents and grandmother, and I agree, the baby should not

have been left unattended in the room with the puppy. But puppies do chew, and there is no malicious intent in it. They need to be taught right from wrong. They have been chewing on their littermates for the past 4 weeks or so, they don't know any better. There is just something that doesn't add up about this story. And its a shame that the baby and the puppy were left in such a situation as that.

[marshall]

83. 17 year old should not be raising children

They should be out partying their asses off and worrying about the algebra test on Monday--not partying their asses off while the family puppy chews up the baby in the next room.

[MiniMe]

85. The grandmother should have known better too

[marshall]

87. Too bad she couldn't have convinced her daughter to give the child up for adoption

Kids that young are not ready to raise children.

[GCP]

113. And you know they were 'partying their asses off' exactly how?

:eyes:

[marshall]

177. Partying can be interpreted very broadly

They could have had the television turned up so loudly that it drowned out the baby's cries. They could have been wasted on drugs or in an alcoholic stupor. They could have been playing three handed bridge in the next room with all attention on the game. They could have been sitting in a hot tub with the jets turned up so high they couldn't hear anything.

There are all kinds of things they could have been doing other than what they should have been doing--which is attending to the baby.

Of course I suppose they could have been in the room watching the puppy chew up on the baby and they just didn't give a damn.

[Bluebear]

101. Oh consider us all chastised.

:eyes:

[Pharlo]

112. Perhaps if we put it in perspective for you...

Having a six week old puppy put down for this (assuming the puppy was the culprit) is similar to leaving two unattended toddlers alone in a room with a gun. One of the toddlers - say 2 years old - picks up the gun and shoots the other. Now, before looking into the circumstances surrounding the tragedy, instead of placing the blame on the adults in the house who left 2 toddlers alone in a room with a gun, blame the shooter. Only, don't just blame the child who fired the gun, try him/her as an adult and execute him/her as a deadly danger to society with no chance at rehabilitation.

A tragedy, yes, but no one would do that. They'd ask "Where the HELL were the adults and WHY did they leave two young children in a room with a gun?"

The people on this board whom you believe are getting too worked up over a 'mere' dog, would be even MORE worked up if that scenario occurred. There is absolutely NO excuse to have a puppy put down for chewing. God knows I have wanted to on occasion, but, that's another story. You just get pissed at yourself for leaving whatever within reach of the puppy. And you SURE do NOT leave a baby and a puppy together in the room together like that, cause sure as God made little green apples, one of them will probably hurt the other - unintentionally, but pretty much a guarantee. And, yes, I'm upset about the puppy too. There was NO reason to have a six week old puppy put down. If they wanted to punish the real culprits, there were three adult humans in that house who would be more apt candidates.

[fl410]

117. thank you for a most excellent and cogent comment.

:-)

[Arugula Latte]

34. Six week old puppy? That seems unlikely, doesn't it?

Six months, maybe ...

Weird, weird, weird.

This whole thing is just horrible.

[JanMichael]

45. does that puppy in the photo look 6 weeks old?

it looks older to me, but we have a 14 pound full grown jack mix-so, it's hard to tell. Sad situation, all around.

[LWolf]

52. Yes.

Labs are BIG dogs. Bigger than they seem, because their personality is often that of "perpetual puppy."

Depending on whether it's an english or american lab, a full grown lab is going to weigh somewhere between 70-90 lbs.

[carlyhippy]

62. yep, that looks about 6 weeks size for a lab pup

[spinbaby]

49. This story seemed so very familiar

After a bit of googling, I came up with:

Pit Bull Puppy Chewed Off Baby's Toes While Parents Slept

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,236001,00.html

[petronius]

54. If that story was discussed on DU, I wonder if the thread was so unanimously pro-dog...

;)

[Blue Diadem]

55. Here's one where a puppy chewed off a disabled child's foot too.

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071129/NEWS02/711290359

Toledo mom gets 4 years for letting pup gnaw off foot
----------------------------------
http://www.wftv.com/news/14519881/detail.html

Dog Mutilates 4-Month-Old Boy's Genitals

-------------------------

couple more listed at this dog forum:

http://www.dogforums.com/2-general-dog-forum/30551-carinoodle-mauls-infant.html

-------------------------------------
Parents really need to know that leaving a child/infant unattended with a dog, any breed, any size, can be dangerous and deadly.

[elehhhhna]

84. The French face-transplant lady's labby chewed her face off

while she was passed out. That's why she needed a transplant.

[hedgehog]

100. There's some suggestion that it was a ferret that was responsible

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2007/02/353254.shtml


Back in the late 70s, when ferrets were first becoming a popular pet, we had a minor scandal in my town when the owner of the local exotic pet store left a couple of ferrets in a cage with a young fox overnight. The cop on patrol in the early morning hours looked in to see the ferrets eating the remains of the fox.

[carlyhippy]

61. my friend has an 8-week old black lab puppy

she can get rowdy when she is playing, and her teeth are sharp...unfortunately I can see where this could have happened, the puppy probably saw the swinging motion and chewed the poor baby up, probably the legs. What a tragedy, I hope that in the future people who have small babies read about this and be more mindful of a puppy with a baby.

[book_worm]

64. Very sad

[flvegan]

65. Something's not right here.

If the swing had been knocked down, that's one thing. Aren't those seats fairly high up?

Never leave children alone with any dog, people.

I'm sorry for this kid, his family and the dog that was put down.

[EFerrari]

67. And Labs usually have very soft mouths.

Something feels wrong here.

[flvegan]

69. "obviously mauled by a dog"

That child would have been screaming, and I still can't see "mauled" without taking the entire swing down, or the swing fell/was knocked down, which would have killed the child instantly.

Also, for a 6 week old lab pup to do this, he'd have to REALLY be wired wrong, and they wouldn't be carrying him out so easily. Now, if the pug were older, and had access to the kid and was maybe a bit jealous of "the new baby" then we might have a story.

There's more to this. I'll wait for the autopsy.

[MiniMe]

89. I had 6 10 week olds in my house about 10 days ago

I was fostering them for the weekend. And yes, they were labs. Lab pups chew, and they chew on whatever is available. They chew on each other, hands, food bowls, and anything else they can get their mouths around. And the teeth are like needles at that age. After they finish teething, they get better. But some labs don't get over the oral period. I foster for a lab rescue and I have labs of all ages coming through the house, and I've been doing this for 5 years. Labs can be really mouthy sometimes, and you have to teach them how to be gentle with their mouths. Not all, but some.

And if you are interested, here are some pics of the insanely cute litter I had. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=243x35271

[EFerrari]

90. So great.

lol

I'm a Lab addict. In fact, my whole family is into Labs. I've never seen one of them that got completely over the need to chew and bite but they are gentle about it, much more so than most dogs -- in my experience anyway. My Kid tried to eat my skates, my iPod and my Doc Martens so yes, Lab puppies chew and bite. lol

Mauling, though? That's something else entirely. :shrug:

[MiniMe]

106. Agree

I really want to hear what the autopsy shows. But if the puppy was a factor, it wasn't a mauling, that indicates malice. And I seriously doubt there was any malice in it at all.

[MiniMe]

107. Oh, and my latest addition is a puppy mill pup

He is almost 2 now, but he still likes to suck on my thumb. I have never seen anything like it, but he does it. Gently for the most part. And he nibbles ears. Hard not to love him.

[EFerrari]

109. My current roomy is from hunting stock. She doesn't cosy up

like my first one except at bed time. She curls up on the far side of the bed and when we wake up, she's got as much contact going as possible. Stealth cuddling. :)

[rebel with a cause]

150. My lab is a ten year old puppy.

She doesn't bite or chew any more, but she still sometimes likes to escape (she is an escape artist) from her lease to chase birds, squirrels, cats, and anything else that will run (or fly) away from her. She comes limping back home, proud as she can be that she has given chase.

I must say that when I got her at eight weeks old, she was a lot smaller than the dog pictured. She was the runt of the litter. The vet argued me that she would never get over thirty-five pounds and was not a lab mix. She is not the same size as her sister (my daughter's dog). Man, was it hard breaking a sixty pounder from being a lap dog.

[MiniMe]

157. Awwww

LOL, they all think they are lap dogs. 60lbs is normal for a female. They are actually breeding "condo labs" now. 40lb labs that look exactly like regular labs, just really small. Its really strange. We get them into the rescue occasionally.

[rebel with a cause]

160. When there is a bad thunderstorm

I have two sixty+ lap dogs on my hands, because mine and my daughters dog thinks being in my lap will make them safer. :)

40 lb labs? Interesting.

[Arkansas Granny]

183. I think the use of the term "mauling" is probably exaggerated.

Puppies chew and I'm sure that they will find that this puppy chewed on something fascinating that was swinging back and forth. I can't imagine a puppy that age attacking the baby with malicious intent.

[mnhtnbb]

66. WTF is the matter with those parents? This is the kind of stuff that

makes me say, again, that parents need to be licensed. What idiot leaves a 2 month old baby unattended in a swing? Jesus H Christ. What idiots. And with dogs around.

That "mother" should not be allowed to procreate again until she's completed a parenting
class. What a total idiot. I hope both parents are prosecuted for child endangerment.

:wtf:

[ScreamingMeemie]

68. Me.

I was 19. I guess you should take my children away. accidents happen. When all eyes and all judgements are on you, perhaps you will feel differently. Would that I could be so perfect. I hope these people are surrounded by more compassion (until any reason supporting otherwise shows itself) than is being shown here. Bad things happen. They will, formal punishment or not, have to live with this the rest of their lives.

[mnhtnbb]

70. So maybe you got lucky. I believe raising children is among the most

difficult jobs in the world. Way too many people are not qualified to do it, but could be
much better parents with some training/education.

Just because the human body is capable of reproduction does not mean that person is prepared
or knowledgeable enough for the task.

This was a tragedy that did not need to happen. It could have easily been prevented.
I am damn sick of the attitude in this country that children who get pregnant should
without a doubt have and keep those children. There is an obligation to care for
children. And leaving a 2 month old unattended in a swing with dogs around is NOT how
one cares for children.

[ScreamingMeemie]

72. and I am damned sick of attitudes like yours.

No, it's not right that it happened. These parents have learned a horribly painful lesson, just as I did the day I turned my back in DW and my daughter (at 2) walked off. I got lucky. Very lucky. But feel welcome to come get my children anytime. I wish I could be as perfect as you. My daughter? Because I was 19 (and admittedly stupid) I left her (stupidly) alone in a swing many times. My husband's aunt? She left her two month old in a bouncy chair and turned to the stove for a second. He bounced right off the table, luckily not injuring himself... But of course, she was a bad mother.

[mnhtnbb]

77. Accidents do happen. I know that. I didn't raise two boys without accidents.

No matter how hard you try, you cannot have your eyes on your kids every minute of every day.

BUT, there are situations which lead to accidents. Leaving kids in pools alone. Leaving
kids in bouncy chairs alone. Leaving babies with animals (dogs or cats) alone.

I don't think this tragedy was about one of those moments when you turn your head and something
unpredictable happens. From the sound of it, this was about an uneducated, untrained mother
who wasn't done being a child herself. She wasn't ready to take on the enormous responsibility for another life. Obviously, you identify with her, and from what you've written, I suspect you feel some guilt over your own behavior as a mother.

This is not about being a bad mother. It's about being unready, untrained, uneducated. There is a huge difference in my book.

I do not mean to insult you. I simply mean to express my opinion that mothering is not necessarily
a natural or automatic function that comes from giving birth.

[ScreamingMeemie]

78. So we should then throw the book at them...and others like them

for that. That's my point. It is a tragedy all the way around, for all involved. To see people screaming "meth addicts" etc., burns me. I totally agree with you on all points. I just am not ready to crucify a 17 year old who will probably crucify herself over this. I am sick for them, the baby, the puppy, society. I hope you have a good day. Sorry if I jumped, it is just who I am when it comes to it I guess.

[mnhtnbb]

81. I don't know what the child endangering laws are in OK. I do think

that if people are going to have babies when they are little more than still children themselves,
then they have to accept the consequences of their actions. If the State of OK determines
that what happened was a result of child endangerment, then, yes, I think those parents should be prosecuted.

[ScreamingMeemie]

82. We will disagree on that. If they are found to be willfull in that neglect

i.e. drugs, or any thing else, I will then agree with you. Until that story comes out I won't do that. I lost my husband over it. No, I'm not playing a card. It's true. Take care.

[mnhtnbb]

93. I am very sorry for your loss, MrsGrumpy.

[AngryAmish]

88. My wife and I almost severely injured our tot

We have the requisite college degrees (and advanced degrees). Both in our late 30s. We went through all the classes offered at the best childbirth/childcare facility in the city and perhaps the world. Yet when our daughter was a month old we left her on a counter in a bouncy seat that vibrated itself off and she fell to the floor.

Luckily she was fine (although a pretty scary ride to the ER). But under your way of thinking my wife and I belong in jail and some foster parent should raise my tot.

Your horse is waaaaay high.

[mnhtnbb]

91. I'm glad your baby was ok. I've had scary rides to the ER when my boys were little, too.

Bouncy seats are NOT ok. Perhaps you succumbed to the fatigue of new parents. Perhaps you
gave in to advertising and commercialism. Perhaps you didn't have enough immediate family
to help out in holding your baby. Parents who use bouncy seats are asking for trouble.

Raising kids is a tough job. It's demanding, it's exhausting, it requires tremendous resources
and support. It requires intimacy. It does not require bouncy seats.

If my horse is waaay high for you, too bad. I care about doing everything possible
to prevent babies from being harmed. If getting on my high horse on this message board
makes one parent think about getting rid of a bouncy seat or tells a friend not to use one, then I will be happy.

[EFerrari]

92. If young mothers couldn't raise children, most of us wouldn't be here right now. n/t

[ScreamingMeemie]

95. I suggest you come take BabyG and WannaB...

This is getting to be blown way out of proportion when the whole story hasn't been told. My daughter bears a scar on her eye to this day due to me. I didn't know I was that shitty of a mom. Thanks.

[EFerrari]

97. It's silly on its face.

If young mothers were so lethal or so stupid, the human race wouldn't have survived.

You know what, MrsGrumpy, once my son rolled off of a waterbed because I was stupid and tried to change his diaper there. I thought I was going to have a heart attack. I was 19. And I don't know a mother who doesn't have a story like that, no matter what their age. My beautiful, great, better than peanut butter mother in law locked my son in the car WITH the keys. She was in her fifties. Stuff happens. We deal with it.

This story is different. I'm sort of afraid to find out what really happened here. :(

[ScreamingMeemie]

126. No it apparently, with the update, wasn't.

Mom and grandma were asleep. Dad and grandpa stupidly left. A tragic accident.

Things happen. I only hope that those (I'm not pointing to you) who suggested that mom is a meth addict right from the start will reconsider their rush to judgement if that is proven not to be so... :(

I also ask that people look at what a good friend of mine endured last summer:

http://www.topix.com/forum/source/hampton-roads-daily-press/TUF9LEKCKHRBK90A9

And then go check out her blog and see just what a bad mother she isn't.

[EFerrari]

86. I don't think we have the whole story yet.

I've known many moms under twenty -- was one myself. The overwhelming majority of us managed not to allow our babies to be mauled by dogs.

And to tell you the truth, I don't believe this story.

[ScreamingMeemie]

94. I was one too...and, from the looks of it, WannaB should have

been taken away. A tragic mistake until proven otherwise.

[EFerrari]

98. I don't think I could have kept up with those boys in my late 30s.

lol

We sure had a great time together. :)

[Blue Diadem]

108. Looks like Grandpa put the baby in the swing,

See updated story below.

[FedUpWithIt All]

175. I am an idiot that occasionally leaves the room WITHOUT my infant.

We no longer have a dog but i will occasionally leave the room while my son sleeps. For the first few months he slept best in his swing. I have a combined total of 35 years worth of child rearing among my four children and all of them are alive and healthy in spite of the fact that they were sometimes left "unattended" in swings.

A YOUNG mother might not realize just how dangerous a small puppy can be. Indeed some "dog people" here disbelieve a young puppy could cause much harm. But they can as i am sure this young mother now knows.

[entanglement]

71. A brutal lesson for the parents: dogs are dogs, no matter how much people anthropomorphize them

They can (and do kill) weaker humans, especially children.

[fl410]

75. We do tend to forget that all dogs are descendants of wolves.

(Which by the way have a -mostly- undeserved reputation for viciousness but are certainly willing to be the natural predator they are under certain conditions...)

[jesus_of_suburbia]

76. Parents fault. I would put the dog down... but the parents are pathetic.

My dogs are 6 and 7 years old.

When my niece comes to visit (she is almost 1 year) I put gates up that the dogs cannot jump over. I tell my brother and my sister-in-law that if my niece is out of the safe room, they need to be with her (or have me with her). Under no circumstances is she to be alone with them EVER (till she is 12 or so).

If you have a dog, don't trust them around children. It's just a good idea period.

[Bluebear]

102. You would put the PUPPY down? Wow.

I don't even buy this story.

[ScreamingMeemie]

147. While I buy the story as a tragic accident, given the update...

Putting that innocent puppy down was horrible. I hurt for everyone involved in this one.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

96. I'm not buying it.

Lab Puppies are not violent animals. And she was in a swing. How did he get to her? I'm not buying this line of bull shit.
Duckie

[ScreamingMeemie]

148. I don't think the Lab puppy was acting violent.

I think the lab puppy was doing what puppies (especially lab puppies) do best-chewing. :(

I used to put WannaB's swing (yes with her in it because I was a bad, exhausted 19 year old, stupid mother) next to the couch while I slept. We did not have a dog, but it wasn't the smartest thing for me to do. I am lucky. I think this was a horrible, horrible accident that will haunt those involved for the rest of their lives. The anguish on the faces of those poor young parents...

[EFerrari]

174. I just looked at pix of my Lab at 8 weeks. There's no way.

She didn't have the focus to maul anything even if she was so inclined. This story is bs.

[Bluebear]

103. The whole thing sounds cockamamie, frankly.

[Blue Diadem]

104. UPDATED STORY:

Baby Killed By Puppy Unattended For Over An Hour

Updated: July 29, 2008 06:47 PM EDT


There are new details about the baby killed by a dog on Monday. Tulsa Police say the two-month-old baby boy was named Zane Alen Earles. The News On 6's Emory Bryan reports police say he was unattended for possibly as long as an hour and a half before his body was discovered.

snip:
"The baby's father left the residence about 8 a.m. and the baby was fine. The baby's grandfather left the home about 8:30 in the morning and he had put the baby in the swing set," said Tulsa Police Officer Leland Ashley.

snip:
His mother is 17-year-old Linzy Earles, who was in the home with the baby's grandmother. They told detectives they were on the opposite side of the house from the baby when the dog killed the child.

"We're looking at it as possibly just a tragic accident that occurred. We're not looking to blame anyone or anything like that, but the detectives will investigate this case," said Tulsa Police Officer Leland Ashley.


http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=8753165

[uppityperson]

115. child was alone for (possilby) 1 1/2 hours? Another story with more...

Thanks for the update. This was at the minimum poor communication between the adults.
http://www.newsok.com/article/3276299

...The child's father and grandfather left the home, 2904 E 102nd St., at 8 and 8:30 a.m., Ashley said. Before the grandfather left, he put the infant in a swing in a dining room at the east end of the south Tulsa home. The infant's mother and grandmother were asleep in their bedrooms at the west end of the residence.

Authorities think Earles was bitten numerous times by the black Labrador puppy.

[Blue Diadem]

118. I suspected the Mom and Grandma were still sleeping.

Thanks for the comfirmation & link. It would explain why they didn't hear anything with sleeping and being on the opposite side of the house. Very sad and horrific tragedy.

[uppityperson]

119. It strikes me as at least poor adult communication.

Did those leaving think those staying were watching the baby? Did those staying know those who left left? Lots of questions there. It is very sad for everyone involved.

[Blue Diadem]

151. I wonder those things too,

but we'll probably never know the full story.

[TahitiNut]

154. "The little boy was two months old, the dog only slightly older." So, the puppy was about 9 weeks.

That makes more sense ... but still not enough sense.
:shrug:

The medical examiner's report is pending, but police say the evidence clearly shows that the black lab puppy killed the baby. The dog was euthanized and examined at the Tulsa Animal Shelter, and found to be between two and three months old.

"It was a very young puppy. We don't know what caused the dog to act the way it did, but all indications are that the dog is responsible for the child's death," said Tulsa Police Officer Leland Ashley.

Something's still wrong about this.

[ScreamingMeemie]

158. Lab puppies chew. An update is stating that the father and grandfather

left the home while the mother and grandmother were sleeping. It makes all too tragic sense to me. Poor baby, poor puppy, poor family. They will suffer the rest of their lives over this. As so many of us do.

[TahitiNut]

166. ....

(((((Laura)))))
:loveya:

[Blue Diadem]

159. I tend to think it was just the dog chewing and playing and

getting carried away. There was a similar story almost 32 years ago about a baby girl who was left alone with a small dog. I remember when I read the story because I was holding my own baby girl who was the same age as the baby that died.

Up thread, some of us posted other stories about pups chewing on infants.

[Ezlivin]

105. Another reason that babies should have guns

Even if the toddler missed the dog, the sound of the gunshot would have alerted the parents.

[fl410]

120. Or just give the dog a gun...eliminate the messy biting thing.

jeezus...
:eyes:

[MedleyMisty]

111. Why did they kill the poor little puppy?

Fun fact - puppies aren't human and don't think the same way we do or have the same awareness of what their actions mean to humans.

I was reading this over, and I was worried that it sounded like I was answering the question or something.

Actually - what I mean is what is gained by killing the puppy? Seriously? It didn't know that it had done anything wrong.

I fucking hate humans.

[Selatius]

114. I think some municipalities have laws requiring putting down animals that have killed people. nt

[fl410]

122. Unfortunately the reverse isn't common.

:grr:

[yawnmaster]

123. nor should it be nt

[uppityperson]

125. And it shouldn't be. I expect you are a fruitarian then, right?

You must at the very least be a vegan.

[fl410]

129. I guess I assumed my comment would be understood to refer to those who inflict

pain and suffering like the bastards who poured gas on 5 dogs near here last week and set fire to them. And yes I realize that not all slaughter for food is completely humane but it at least has a purpose nutritionally. I have on several occasions shot and killed abandoned dogs out here where people dump them because they were about to die of hunger, thirst and/or disease. Or roadkill.

[uppityperson]

133. Never assume. Thank you for clarifying.

I am against the death penalty (yes, one of those types) but a long prison sentence would work. Some people need to be locked up and someone who would gas and burn dogs for fun is one of them.

[fl410]

144. I am also constitutionally against the DP but when I see things like this

http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=547305c4-dc59-4c28-b02c-e74d215c9754

I have to think that if I saw that being done, in real time, it would require an enormous effort for me to not defend those animals with deadly force if that's what it took to stop it. This story is an early one, there have been several more found with burns from what is thought to be ignited gasoline but the results are similar to the acid burns. I will tell you this in complete honesty, I would shoot and kill with absolutely no hesitation anybody attempting to do something like that to any of our doggies (or Spot the kitty.)

[ZombieHorde]

116. If the puppy killed a baby, then the puppy needs to be put down.

[fl410]

121. Absolutely. And that grandpa who backed over his toddler grandson last week and killed

him should be drawn, quartered, tortured, hanged and then shot.

[uppityperson]

124. Did you know that we can do searches?

I know you like to post inane things, as you have said elsewhere.

[fl410]

131. One person's inanity is another's fact.

True here as everywhere. :D

[ZombieHorde]

128. drawn, quartered, tortured, hanged and then shot.

I don't think that that is constitutional. Though if he ran over him on purpose, than he needs to be locked away to protect other toddlers.

[fl410]

132. Uh, no it wasn't on purpose. I guess I assumed that would be understood.

Sarcasm doesn't seem to work very well around here...

[ZombieHorde]

134. Sarcasm doesn't seem to work very well around here...

That is the first sarcastic thing you have typed.

[fl410]

138. Well, it finally worked.

:D
Thank you! :D

[ZombieHorde]

139. I just noticed you post count....Welcome to DU!

[fl410]

145. Thank you I am learning!

haha

[uppityperson]

135. New poster, lack of sarcasm icon, unknown way of expressing self,...

infiltrating disruptors, all lead us to question questionable posts.
To get :sarcasm: type : then sarcasm then :, or else click on smilies lookup table right over where you write subject line when you post.

And I don't see how that was sarcasm. Are you saying a puppy that killed someone shouldn't be put down, or are you saying a puppy who killed someone is like "grandpa who backed over his toddler grandson", meaning both just made a mistake? Why would you assume everyone knows about that story of the "grandpa who backed over his toddler grandson" and that it wasn't on purpose?

Simplify, add more, use sarcasm icon.

[fl410]

137. Thank you. I just meant that a puppy that chews on things is no more "guilty" of

anything than that grandpa who killed his grandson...that actually happened the other day near here. I guess the pup can't feel the same kind of remorse and sadness the grandpa obviously does but their lack of intent (or malice) is the same.
No sarcasm in this one.

[ZombieHorde]

140. Dogs know when they are eating fresh meat.

[fl410]

146. I'm sure they do, being descendants of ultimately carnivorous wolves

it's their favorite food, Purina's rice and oat faux food at exhorbitant prices notwithstanding. :D

[uppityperson]

141. That is true. The poor puppy. That poor grampa. And those poor kids and families.

Friend of MrUP got hit and killed by a car last wk. Broad daylight, big guy, it just happened. I feel very sorry for him, his family, the world is a lesser place and for the person who hit him. Tragic, all the way around.

That said, animals don't have the same rights or responsibilities as people do and some places a dog that kills someone must be killed. Some places a dog that even bites someone, even in error or for a good reason, is killed. Sad also.

[aikoaiko]

178. Any dog can do this.

[MiniMe]

185. True, but it was a 2 or 3 month old puppy. I doubt there was malice in it

Puppies that age chew everything, including their littermates. But their littermates can move away and fight back.

[bdamomma]

179. very sad incident, but there maybe more to the story.

[varkam]

191. Here's what I don't get:

Why couldn't the article be true? Why couldn't the baby have died as a result of being bitten by the puppy? Is it because we think that the puppy couldn't of done that? Do we not want to blame cute, adorable puppy for what happened?