What is wrong with getting high? Stoned? Drunk? Jacked? Tweaked? Tripped out?

[RadiationTherapy]

I am not asking about operating a crane in downtown NYC under the influence; I am asking about impacts on our society, friends, families, etc by non-abusive (abusive of others or property, not an "abuser of drugs") drug users.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. It leads to miscegenation.

[Uben]

6. Where did that come from?

You have a problem with inter-racial marriage? I'm asking because your post insinuates that drug abuse causes this.

My personal experience with drug use has done no more than cause an extreme case of the munchies! There's a McDonald's next door...I'm good!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. It's the basis for the War on Drugs.

The entire ideology behind the war on drugs is rooted in racism.

[Uben]

9. Learn sumpin every day!

So if I do drugs, I get a fine lookin AA woman? I'm raisin some poppies!

[Sheets of Easter]

13. Bingo!

I remember watching "Hooked" on the History channel not long ago. At the turn of the 20th century, cocaine abuse was epidemic. It was in every medicine, tonic, and elixir. Most coke addicts were middle class housewives, yet the anti-drug campaign focused solely on the threat of "drug-crazed Negroes" reaking havoc upon society.

Not to say that coke isn't a dangerous subtance on its own, but the means to criminalize it were purely racist.

edit for clarity.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

17. Not to mention everything else on the Republican platform.

white flight, taxes, big government... it all goes back to racism.

[snooper2]

27. Stoned Mexicans

Raping your babies :rofl:

[cliffordu]

36. Stoned Mexicans

Eating all your potato chips and twinkies.

[meow2u3]

62. Don't worry. The stoned Mexicans will leave your potato chips alone

But don't forget to hide the tortilla chips :rofl:

[pokerfan]

59. And your daughters being lured into an opium den

Which is why they banned the smoking of opium. But since white people drank opium, they left that activity alone.

[RadiationTherapy]

28. Nailed it in one, eh?

nice.

[Dora]

39. Can it, Pudd'nhead. nt

[Iris]

58. hee! hee!

[mitchum]

45. Exactly! To hell with "The Wall", I watch "Mandingo" while doing bong hits

[EFerrari]

46. LOL

:rofl:

[NightWatcher]

2. there's nothing wrong as long as you buy the ones they're selling you (xanax, jim beam, xoloft...)

but if you dare ingest anything that occurs naturally, they will put you under the jail

[RadiationTherapy]

23. I am just tired of hearing "pot is medicine for this and great for that"

Wanting to get high is just as valid as any other purpose of a drug in a free country.

It still means you are expected to be responsible and safe.

[guitar man]

25. right on!!

I've never seen a sign on a liquor store that says "for medicinal purposes only" or "take only as directed" on a bottle of scotch.

:applause:

[ljm2002]

50. I totally agree...

...and have always been irritated with the people who think pot is okay but only as long as you use it for "medicinal purposes" -- but Gawd forbid you should use it because you enjoy it.

Not to mention the pot smokers who think that cigarettes should be outlawed outright (yes, such people exist and I know some of them). I mean, huh? They reason that the tobacco companies are evil (pretty much true), so cigarettes should be outlawed (boy that would be another replay of Prohibition).

But then, logic is not a big part of politics, is it?

That's why the crazies manage to get power over the rest of us so easily -- they play on the lizard brain, the part rooted in feelings not logic. And we fall for the programming again and again.

[RadiationTherapy]

53. I support all bans on "unhealthy" foods, drinks and smoke.

Until the drug war ends. I am sick of fast foodies, alcoholics and tobacco addicts having access to their deadly addictions.

Fuck hypocrisy; let's go totalitarian on our asses!

[Oregone]

3. What if you have an existential epiphany and become a non-productive member of society?

It can happen.

[dysfunctional press]

4. (raises hand)

oh..my mistake...i thought it was a poll question...nevermind.
maury's almost on anyway...gotta clean some bud.

[ColbertWatcher]

12. ...

[Hydra]

5. I had one of those without drugs!

All it took was my boss! :evilgrin:

[RadiationTherapy]

24. Hey! That is the double-super-SECRET reason drugs are illegal.

hush now!

[cliffordu]

37. Yep. That's what's really wrong with me....

Toxic ratrace apathy

[aine p]

7. The Others

Being under the influence means one is not completely aware of their actions and consequences and are therefore more likely to do stupid things. Stupid things which can hurt innocent individuals

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

11. So...

what are you under the influence of right now?

[RadiationTherapy]

21. BZZZZZZZT! Wrongo!

Plenty of sober, stupid people out there doing their sober, stupid things.

[ljm2002]

51. So then, you're saying that alcohol should be outlawed?

We know how well that worked out last time it was tried...

Seriously, though, you do realize that your position would mandate that alcohol be illegal for recreational or relaxation purposes, right?

The OP specifically stated you should not be operating heavy equipment (and by implication, not doing things where your impairment would put yourself or others into danger). Did you miss that part?

Do you just want outright prohibition of any pleasure-causing substances? Or is it just the ones that are illegal at the moment, because some Daddy authority somewhere has decreed it must be so?

[knitter4democracy]

63. Good point.

Too many young men and women, mostly women, get attacked when they are under the influence. My own SIL was drugged while at a bar with friends and not watching her drink closely, and the predator abducted her and imprisoned her in his apartment and raped her the rest of the night. Thank God her friends were able to track her down and she was able to run out when he opened the door. Bad things can happen when you aren't as aware as you need to be.

[Donnachaidh]

10. this is such a wide open question it's almost silly

Nothing is WRONG with getting high - it's when the abuses happen. And they DO happen in the real world. People who think they can *handle it* wind up destroying their lives, and the lives of others around them - because they can NOT handle it. And it takes YEARS to overcome the damage done.

[emilyg]

15. My ex son-in-law comes to mind.

[RadiationTherapy]

18. Excuse me, but your post is contradictory.

You say there is nothing wrong with getting high and a sentence later you are talking about people destroying their lives because they THINK they can handle getting high.

Either there is nothing wrong with it, or it leads to people destroying lives. Which is it?

[Broken_Hero]

38. .........

Bingo, a friend of mine just got over 5yrs because he couldn't handle his drinking problem...

It will take a long time for him to get his life back on track, if ever...

[Dora]

40. But alcohol is legal, and it should be. Prohibition didn't work out so well. nt

[Broken_Hero]

41. Yes alcohol is legal, I never pushed for prohibition

my post was to illustrate how people can "abuse" "not handle" their vice, and destroy their life. I'm not pushing for prohibition at all.

[Dora]

43. Yes. I misunderstood the tenor of this thread.

It's not about legality, as I thought, but use and abuse of mind and body altering substances.

[ljm2002]

52. Some people who drive...

...can't handle it and get in wrecks and kill others. Should we outlaw cars?

Some people wreck their lives with food -- in fact at the present time, many, many people in our society are becoming fat and unhealthy due to a number of reasons. What would be the answer there -- what foods should we outlaw?

You can always come up with the "some people can't handle it" argument. Alcohol of course is the first example. Plenty of people can't handle it and ruin their lives. Shall we try outlawing it again?

[stray cat]

14. as long as you don't leave a locked room and require no help from society probably nothing

[RadiationTherapy]

19. Yeah! Same for those damned hikers that get lost and need help!

Stay home!

[patrice]

16. I know an awful lot of people who get their personalities out of a prescription bottle. nt

[RadiationTherapy]

20. Me friggen too...

Especially in the morning. It seems like everyone gets high before they come to work or something.

[LanternWaste]

22. I've never met a non-abusive user of drugs

I've never met a non-abusive user of non-medicinal drugs (other than pot), so I guess I'm not really in a position to know...

(I differentiate between an experiment or two and a user, btw)

[blonndee]

26. Really? My experience has been almost opposite from yours.

I've known many people (and still do) who are semi-regular and recreational users of drugs. Mostly it is just pot, but even those who regularly/recreationally do other drugs (cocaine and alcohol, mostly) do not seem to be abusers and in fact are working, have strong family ties and friendships, and are doing as well financially as their peers. Of course, people could be just hiding it really well, but usually "abusive" use will come out. Just my experience.

OTOH, I will say that I have never met a "recreational" user of meth. Or at least someone whose recreational use didn't quickly become a problem. Including myself, years ago.

[LanternWaste]

30. I imagine everyone's experience will be a little different than someone else.

Yeah... I imagine everyone's experience will be a little different than someone else.

And I'm the first to say I over-qualified my statement ("non-medicinal", "user v. experimenter" , etc..).

But, like you-- I've never met a recreational meth user. But then again, I've never met a recreational acid user (other than working with the occasional burn out and such), or a recreational coke user, either (that I know of anyways).

The only people I know who do drugs recreational are my pot-head pals (of which, I'm neither admitting nor denying any usage on my part :) ), who are a LOT more fun to have around the apartment than my Drinker pals.


"...Including myself, years ago." Yeah-- me too. 1986 was a weird year full of weird stuff. :crazy:

[High Plains]

32. Never met a recreational meth user? Oh, yes you have.

You just didn't know it. Since drug use is stigmatized, people tend not to brag about it. Then, the only drug users you know are the total junkies. It's like basing your opinion of alcohol users on the wino in the alley behind the liquor store.

[LanternWaste]

33. Well, I'm glad you have

Well, I'm glad you have absolute knowledge about who I've met and their habits. Thanks to the Amazing Kreskin and His Totally Awesome Powers.

"Since drug use is stigmatized, people tend not to brag about it."
Except for many of the people that I know.

"the only drug users you know are the total junkies."
Except for many of the people that I know.

"It's like basing your opinion of alcohol users on the wino in the alley behind the liquor store"
I base my opinion of alcohol on my friends and fmaily who drink alcohol.


But other than those minor quibble, it was ALL spot on...

(10 points for style, though...)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

48. Do you know more than 20 people?

Then you've probably met a meth user.

Although maybe you live in a cave. That could explain a few things.

[readmoreoften]

44. You've never met a kid who uses adderall or tried LSD or mescaline or mushrooms or peyote?

Yeah, coke heroin and meth are not experiments, although I have to say I know many people who use coke occasionally who aren't addicted. I still think it's a bad idea.

If you differentiate between experimenting and using, then you can just say all the people who use occasionally are experimenting therefore everyone who uses abuses.

[LostInAnomie]

29. Nothing, as long as you can do it responsibly...

... and don't do any damage to those around you or their property.

Most of the people older than 21 that do drugs aren't capable of that.

[RadiationTherapy]

31. Did you mean younger than 21?

So should getting high be illegal because some people can't handle it?

Hiking?

Driving?

Relationships?

[LostInAnomie]

34. Nope, I meant older.

Most of the people I know that are older than 21 and still using (especially anything beyond weed) are irresponsible idiots that don't care about themselves or those around them.

Your OP asked what was "wrong" not why should it be illegal. I don't care at all if someone uses on a recreational basis. It's their life and their body. But, once that use causes them to act irresponsibly or abusively, they deserve what ever comes to them.

[RadiationTherapy]

35. Anyone who acts irresponsible or abusively is subject to law.

It has nothing to do with them getting/being high or not.

The irresponsible idiots part is not worth commenting on as it is purely subjective, judgemental and useless.

[LostInAnomie]

42. Not all irresponsibility is subject to law.

People that would rather get high than hold down a job to support their children. People that would rather spend their money on crank than do their children's laundry or keep the power on.

There is nothing inherently wrong with getting high on any drug. It is your body and you can do what you want with it. But, it's silly for us to pretend that for many people the use of drugs (legal and illegal) didn't play a role in lowering their inhibitions to the point that they acted irresponsibly or illegally.

The key for responsible drug use is knowing your limits and when your own behavior is crossing a line. I won't say that there is a class differentiation between people that should be allowed to use drugs and those that shouldn't. But, I will say that there are people out there that should not be doing drugs for the simple fact that they cannot handle it.

[RadiationTherapy]

47. I know I didn't ask why drugs were illegal, so my analogy is spotty...

but I have known many people whose passions are legal (musicians/artists for SURE, btu also hikers, adventure seekers, travel bugs) and who have neglected their children, jobs, family, etc. I firmly believe that it is a type of person who is negligent and not any sort of behaviors in and of themselves.

[readmoreoften]

49. My answer: drugs sales generally seem to fund right-wing initiatives.

Or the US government.

LSD: Developed by Sandoz (now Novartis) in the 1940s, brought into the US by the CIA which tried to buy the global LSD supply in the 1950s. Used LSD for MK-Ultra mind control experiments on unsuspecting civilians, resulting in one CIA agent's death. Agents were also experimenting with LSD themselves.

Marijuana: currently a major cash crop of Right-Wing paramilitary groups in Mexico. Local and national government (conservatives) involvement likely. Left-wing democratic movements such as the Zapatistas are firmly anti-drug. The marijuana trade funds the weapons that local RW thugs use to massacre kids and rape women.

Cocaine: Read the book "White Out" and think about how SacBee reporter Gary Webb died for exposing Right-Wing/CIA involvement in the invention and sale of crack in LA African-American neighborhoods, the funds of which were used to send arms to the Contra rebels (right-wing, paramilitary)

Heroin: I dunno. Something to do with Afghanistan. Ask Sibel Edmonds.


I abstain because I don't like the way drugs make me feel, but if I did smoke pot I'd buy locally grown for political reasons.

[dendrobium]

54. Drugs have consequences

First let me say I am against drug and alcohol prohibition. People will always want to use mind altering substances and it is futile to make that illegal. But that does not mean that drugs are risk free. It can really mess up your life.

I know it is popular here to sing the praises of ganja. Ganja has problems too. Most people will experiment with it and will be fine but others end up wasting their lives. Of course ganja is associated with the place I live but most Jamaicans are not using. We have a big problem with our boys smoking though. Ganja seems to de-motivate them so much that they no longer strive for anything. They just want to sit around all day and get high. I know that locking them up is not the answer. But pretending that ganja is harmless for everyone is foolish.

[RadiationTherapy]

55. Thank you for this thought provoking post.

I remember enough of my twenties to confirm that ganj does tend to make one feel complacent with where they are in the world. That's cool, but I prefer walking my path and not sitting on it so much.

Great post.

[killbotfactory]

56. Not a damn thing

If you understand and accept the consequences are it should be your right to responsibly use whatever recreational drug you want. People are proscribed, or allowed to buy, worse daily as a matter of course.

By far the majority of problem which stem from drugs comes from them being banned, and the draconian punishments we hand out to users. They are too easy to smuggle, and in such high demand, that black markets will inevitably pop up and create all sorts of problems. It would be better if we regulated and controlled them depending on how addictive or physically damaging they are. Destroy the black market and the legal market altogether when it comes to the most addictive and physically damaging drugs like meth, so that no one gains anything by pushing them. If people want to try them they'll find a way, and it's just stupid to ruin someones life through our legal system to try and prevent them from possibly ruining their life through drug abuse.

[RadiationTherapy]

57. Brilliant post. Thank you. nt

[asdjrocky]

60. Have you ever looked at your hand?

I mean, really looked?

[knitter4democracy]

61. What if you are genetically predisposed to be an addict?

I'm the only one in my mom's family, both sides, going back four generations who isn't an alcoholic, and that's because I refuse to touch the stuff. My mom's mom died at the ripe old age of 42 from alcohol killing her liver, and Mom herself didn't stop drinking until she was 41 herself. I had to keep her together after my stepdad left her for another woman, lending her money out of my savings for food, showing her how to balance her checkbook at the age of 9, and tucking her into bed all the while worrying about the next day.

Some people are born addicts. If they know this and try to game the system, they usually lose. Addiction kills families, forces kids to grow up too fast, and hurts the addict in deep and lasting ways. If that's not your family history, and you're absolutely positive that you are always entirely in control and do not need another drink or hit or pill, then I suppose it's fine. For me, though, I don't want my kids to go through what I did.