In the two hundred plus years America has been a country, what would you say was it's best decade?

[Bandit]

Maybe the roaring twenties, or the fifties after WW II, or maybe even the nineties, with the tech explosion and Greatest Economic Expansion in History. Is there any one decade that you would consider to be our greatest period and if so why? What makes it so?

[ixion]

1. probably something like 1790 to 1800

we were still young and largely unincorporated, and the Fed had yet to become the monster we see before us today.

[noamnety]

4. Ugh. No.

1793: fugitive slave act - made it a federal crime to assist an escaped slave, even in a free state.
1794: Whiskey Rebellion - first time the federal govt used military force on our own civilians.
1798: Alien and Sedition Acts

[Greyhound]

17. Depending on how you choose to define "best", this could be it.

This was an America with little centralized power and one of the freest periods for the individual (that wasn't an actual slave). The hammering out of the Constitution and the great debate between the Jeffersonians and the authoritarians.

Horrible things happened then as they do now, but there were never greater options available to the individual schmuck. Maybe 1800 - 1810?

One last thing, technology aside, nothing that was bad about then is better now. We still have slavery although much of it is transformed into slightly more subtle forms, we still have the government using it's inherent violence to enforce the "social order" and to maintain the status quo for the ruling class, etc.

And just how many Pooka can boogie on that pin?

[noamnety]

21. "that wasn't an actual slave"

*checks profile*

heh. That's what I thought. Do you think this: "one of the freest periods for the individual (that wasn't an actual slave)" might be a uniquely white male perspective?

Right from the start, the country was founded on sexism, racism, and classism - and repression of those who threatened that power structure - along with imperialism, the stealing of land from others who weren't white enough. That was the time period when we set the precedent for some of that behavior.

I don't share any nostalgia for the purity of ideals they supposedly held as they were writing laws and using armies to protect their own wealth and power.

[glowing]

2. Well, I'm not sitting in the best decade right now. That's for sure.

[Arkham House]

3. 1865-75--Reconstruction

For a decade--half-heartedly, very imperfectly, and in the teeth of overwhelming intrenched racism, North and South, we tried to make the Declaration of Independence a reality. It fauiled, of course, and even worse, was lied about for 100 years...but it was the noblest effort in our history...

[cobalt1999]

24. Reconstruction was noble in it's intentions; horrible in it's implementation.

The corruption and abuses of reconstruction are well documented. Reconstruction created the resentment and hostility needed for the rise of the KKK and other groups, it also created a hatred for the North among southerns that lasted for 100 years.

Add in the corruption of the Grant administration and the Panic of 1873, you picked a horrible 10 year period to call the "best".

[saltpoint]

5. Maybe it would be a decade when a majority of people who lived

on farms were not controlled by agribusiness giants and when a majority of people who lived in cities still understood that neighbors mattered, including neighbors of variable ethnicities, and before so many folks abandoned the American social fabric cities represented to go live in the suburbs.

Don't know how to set that exactly on a calendar, but the decline of family-owned farms disconnected the nation's citizens from the land, and the flight to the burbs disconnected them from the land & each other.

It seems to me that we fared better as a people before those two things changed.

[Deja Q]

6. 1950s

Even minimum wage allowed a reasonable lifestyle. Arguably the best time for the "middle class".

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

7. I asked a right-leaning friend of mine to pick America's high tide by year.

He chose 1952. I then asked him what he thought the top nominal tax rate was in that year. He guessed 37%. When told it was 91%...

[onager]

18. That's an Eisenhower anecdote, even!

From Jonathan Chait's excellent book The Big Con: The True Story of How Washington Got Hoodwinked and Hijacked by Crackpot Economics:

Eisenhower left the top tax rate at a staggering 91 percent, and he repeatedly preached the virtues of budget balance.

(When a colleague complained about this confiscatory rate, his Treasury Secretary, a wealthy former steel executive, replied acidly, "I pay 91 percent, and yet I don't complain and you do all the time." His line reflects a sense of social obligation totally alien to today's GOP.)

[iamahaingttta]

8. Either the 1830's or the 1900's

[ThomWV]

49. Agree

[rurallib]

9. 2010 to 2020

10 years of democratic rule tackles major problems and also leads in world peace.

[robcon]

10. Either the 1990's or the 2000's

The internet and the cellphone has transformed our country and the world in hundreds of positive ways. Including DU.

[Toucano]

29. Uugh!

Not a big fan of the transformation created by cell phones.

I'm gonna vote no to you! Sorry :)

[robcon]

42. Wow! I don't know anyone who doesn't appreciate cellphones.

Three of my friends (not me) use them only to make outgoing calls - not to receive them except in rare cases - but they certainly appreciate the convenience when they want to use them.

[SmileyRose]

46. I own a cell phone - BUT

I am offended by the mindset they create that everyone should be available 24/7. I use mind almost entirely for outgoing calls and only my immediate family has my cell number.

[ThomWV]

50. You do now. Fuck cellphones.

They rot your brain, distract you, waste your time, cost you money, and give the fellows who monitor our phones your exact location (turned on or not) and full knowledge of who your friends, associates, and wrong numbers are. Fuck cell phones.

[robcon]

57. Cell phones are one of the most important improvements in our lives in this country and elsewhere.

Calling when we want, not needing a phone booth, availability almost 24/7, calling from a car, etc., are enormous improvements in our lives in this century, IMO.

Calling my kids and getting an answer almost no matter where they are, is "priceless," to me, as the Mastercard ad would say.

[Toucano]

58. Life was better before.

Sorry that I disagree. Well, only a little sorry, in fact.


The idea that you are constantly available to other people has not been an improvement on our lives, whether we' re speaking about children or anything else.

[robcon]

59. If you don't want to be available 24/7 (as 3 of my friends feel)

then cellphones are only a big improvement in our lives.

If, like me, being more available on cellphones is an enormous, spectacular improvement in my life, well... that's even better.

[Warpy]

11. I'd have to say the 60s

and not just because that was my decade to raise hell.

When I remember the 50s, they're in muted greens, browns and shades of grey--odd colors for childhood remembered. The 60s burst open with wild primary colors, stylized patterns, and truly hideous fashion. That was when we started to question all the segregation and regimentation that had come with the good deal workers got in the 50s. My mother, long a fan of brown on brown decor, bought a kitchen table with bright orange banquette, so it wasn't just limited to the young.

The 60s were the dying gasp of the New Deal--the press was still relatively unfettered by corporate censorship, wages were still high, and the social safety net was largely intact. People who worked for a living, even at entry level jobs like the ones I held, could support themselves with enough left over from rent and food for an occasional luxury.

The 60s were also the decade our leaders were assassinated, one after the other, setting us up for the last 39 years of conservative rule. However, that rule had not happened yet. The 60s were also the time of protest and riots, but those finally managed to get the descendants of slaves full legal citizenship.

Those years were tumultuous and terrifying and wonderful. I don't think I'd like to repeat them, not the way I lived them the first time. However, the hope we felt that our future would be better is something I haven't allowed myself to feel since then.

[Dreamer Tatum]

12. 1950-1960

Incredible economic and cultural growth and development.

[noamnety]

13. Is that a good thing?

I view "incredible economic growth" as materialistic fetishism with no regard for the consequences of the drain on resources at home or abroad.

[Dreamer Tatum]

14. Economic growth is a bad thing?

Really? The creation of jobs and wealth is a bad thing?

Does that mean you pine for the glory days of the Thirties?

[noamnety]

15. what exactly does "growth" entail?

more consumption? of what?

[Dreamer Tatum]

16. Just for fun...where do you think jobs come from?

And what do people generally do with their earnings?

I think you are confusing consumerism with natural and beneficial economic growth.

[noamnety]

19. I think you're avoiding examining what the jobs actually DO.

When you talk about the economic growth that happened in the 50's, what SORT of growth was it? (looking for something more descriptive here than "natural")

What sort, and is that sort of growth sustainable? Was it dependent on depletion of natural resources? Was it dependent on the exploitation of others?

Those are fair questions to ask. It's not good enough to say "all jobs are inherently good; all consumption is inherently good."

[Dreamer Tatum]

38. I can see where this is going, and I'm not going to split hairs

There are hundreds of millions of people in the United States. They need food, clothing, and shelter.
Specialization of efforts and mutually beneficial trade, along with the social contrivance of money,
provide the framework for human survival and even prosperity in the United States.

Adam Smith said it better than I could. Look him up.

[noamnety]

44. You are refusing to look at the SYSTEM

If I hire you to make tv's or missiles, yes, the immediate fix is that you have a salary.

HOWEVER. The entire system is larger than "you work, you get a paycheck." That's how economists mask the effects of the system, by refusing to look at the entire thing, rendering the harmful effects invisible. They focus on supply and demand, or "growth" - and ignore the realities of how actual people are effected.

If you are building tv's or missiles, there's the question of where do all the raw materials come from. How do we get them? What is destroyed in the process? Who do we exploit to get those resources?

That's not "splitting hairs" - and I am shocked to here you refer to it that way. That's like looking at the Iraq war, and saying well, it's good for the KBR contractors, can we please not talk about the effects on the Iraqis, that's splitting hairs.

One of the key industries in the 50's was the automotive industry, which depended on embracing cars over public transport. Is it splitting hairs to talk about the environmental and political effects of that - both within the US and globally?

I live in the Detroit area. In Detroit 20% of the kids in high school have some degree of lead poisoning, with a main source being the lead smelting factories that were located here (16 of them within the city). Is it splitting hairs to have a problem with that? Or as long as people got paychecks for working there, was that a great thing and we should look forward to more economic "growth" of that sort?

[Dreamer Tatum]

53. The system isn't the issue

You are arguing byproducts and externalities. I am speaking about the process by which a great society can provide for the well-being of its constituents. Is it imperfect? Yes. Is any system perfect? No. Please show me one that meets your criteria and can provide opportunities for all.
You can't.

[wuushew]

56. How can you have a Marx avatar and not be concerned about the nature of the system?

Others here are simply arguing that what we produce and the style in which it is produced cannot be maintained going forward. Therefore it is of some interest to describe how and when we best transition from our current economic practices.


"Economics in a full World"

http://www.publicpolicy.umd.edu/faculty/daly/sciam-Daly5%20copy%201.pdf

[burythehatchet]

27. The greatest lie ever told is that "growth" is a good thing

I tend to consider Sustainability as the ideal model for society. Growth is ultimately a zero-sum equation and as long as there are losers, we are all eventually losers.

[Dreamer Tatum]

39. I find that argument silly

Growth is zero-sum?

That isn't worth comment.

[noamnety]

45. You can't accumulate much out of thin air.

If you accumulate (the concept behind capitalism, accumulating capital), it's at the expense of someone else - whether you are accumulating things or money.

If that weren't the case, the countries with the most capital wouldn't also be the most imperialistic throughout history - they need to accumulate more land and more resources (from others) to fuel their growth.

[Dreamer Tatum]

52. That's just plain false.

Head-shakingly so.

Capital is created when people specialize and trade. It doesn't come from thin air.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

81. shhhhhh...you're arguing with a

zero-sum individual here...the fact that this person believes in the concept means you cannot win with them...they don't get it...

sP

[CrazyDude]

79. 1960s or 1990s

With the exception of the runnup of the Vietnam War and the 1st Bush presidency.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

20. The 1960"s. The Great Awakening about America.

When a lot of people became troublemakers who no longer bought the bullshit about this country.

[zanne]

36. Agreed. nt

[tannybogus]

60. Ditto!

There was a whole lot of "participating" going on everywhere about everything.

[carlyhippy]

47. sounds like it is about time for the 60's to arise again

Carly

[EFerrari]

66. And the Sixties didn't only happen here in this country.

Maybe there was some kind of universal disturbance. :)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

67. We certainly weren't the vanguard or most committed.

In France they came within a whisker of bringing down the government. And, they raised some real hell in Prague.

[TexasObserver]

22. The roaring twenties? NO. They were a waste. The 50s? Hardly exemplary.

Try the sixties.

Freedoms were gained in race, gender, gender preference, and the monitoring of government by citizens. It was a decade during which there was a shift that is still being felt and resisted today.

[coalition_unwilling]

77. I would actually say the 1860s and the 1960s, both decades

of momentous social and economic change for the nation. In the former, slavery was ended and we had probably the greatest president of the 200 years (Abe Lincoln). In the 1960s, entire groups of people moved from being second-class to first-class citizens (blacks, Latinos, women, gays) and, in the process, discovered their voices. Plus, we had a very good Prez (one growing on the job)in the early part of the 60s until our cherry got popped on November 21, 1963. And his brother wasn't half bad either (also grew tremendously during the decade). RFK might have presided over 30,000 fewer American soldiers and 1-2 million Vietnamese\SE Asians dieing in Vietnam, had he been elected in Nov '68.

[magellan]

23. 1935-1945

Yeah I know, Depression and WWII. But no decade is without its problems. For me this period represents the best of American inventiveness, creativity, cooperation and idealism, coupled with the determination that there's always room for individual and collective improvement.

Then McCarthyism and the Cold War came along, and creeping conservatism put the kabosh on the independent spirit that drives this country to excel.

[Toucano]

28. Everytime you kissed me, I wiped my mouth. WIPED MY MOUTH!

I love your avatar!

[magellan]

34. It's in the DU avatar selection

BD is a classic. We're diminished in that we'll never see the likes of her, or the quality films of that era, again.

[yardwork]

69. That's my choice, too.

In 1935 FDR began implementing the second wave of relief policies, and then the U.S. helped out in WWII.

[Posteritatis]

75. I'll second this one

It's one of those periods I can see historians a few centuries from now looking at and thinking, "there's no way half of that happened." Then again, I've had Tim Krieder's latest comic running through my head lately, which might filter into that.

We need a lot more idealism and a little more hubris these days.

[cobalt1999]

25. The 1900's.

Every decade had issues, but Theodore Roosevelt and the country created the stage for the "American Century" in those first 10 years.

Trust or Monopolies were finally curtailed and regulation on businesses began.
Conservation efforts to protect and set aside natural areas was greatly expanded.
The Panama Canal (US) effort was started (the Apollo program of it's time).
We had no wars.
We were the rising power in the world, not the declining one.

[leftofthedial]

26. the 1940's.

[B Calm]

30. 1970s. Nixon resigns, Carter installs solar panels on White House,

marijuana is cheap and no drug testing for employment. Saturday Night Live had a great cast!

[cobalt1999]

31. It was certainly the ugliest decade of our history.

Shag carpets, Lime green or gold appliances, platform shoes, leisure suits, polyester clothing, and the most nondescript car models ever.

And those were my FORMATIVE years! No wonder I have no taste.

[B Calm]

37. I'll agree with you on the shag carpets, but 20 dollars for an ounce

of Columbian Gold. . . .

[pitohui]

41. b calm has it right!

they'll never know the fun we had, will they?

no hiv/aids either or at least we didn't know it yet, sex with anyone in any combination fun fun fun

[B Calm]

73. Vietnam War ended. . . High paying jobs plentiful and at union shops. . .

[raccoon]

68. Soaring inflation. nt

[B Calm]

71. Cost of living raises!!

[defendandprotect]

32. I think "worst" would probably be easier to answer . . .

[GoesTo11]

33. "its" not "it's", and 1973-1980 was cool.

People were open minded, equal rights for all were in the offing. America was at peace, rebuilding after Viet Nam and Nixon. Disco came and celebrated integration and individuality. Free speech flourished. Individual liberties flourished. The US advocated human rights worldwide. You didn't have to wear a tie to work, and if you did, it could be as wide and technicolor as you wanted. We had stereos and Disney World (before Disney became what it is). Real incomes were at their all-time high. Yeah, there was inflation and slow growth - demographics and a hangover from the Viet Nam war caused that. But so many good things were starting to happen. The real victories of the 60's were coming to fruition. And then it all came to a screeching halt with the Reagan backlash.

[jakem]

55. um, you killed your own argument. fuck disco.

go punk!

[Skittles]

62. OMG JAKEM I AGREE

DISCO WAS THE F***ING WORST. What kills me now his I hear people I know who gyrated to that garbage back then telling me rap is "not music". PLEASE.

[GoesTo11]

63. I burned my Bee Gees 8-tracks with everyone else, big mistake

The problem with disco was the problem with all kinds of music once it gets totally commercial - all sounds the same, and just not good musical ideas or execution. Plus Barry Gibb overdid it getting his voice an octave too high, and all the songs became about having cheap one night stands after the bar closes. But listen to the best of it now, and it's a total gas. I get it now. Have a good time in the Disco Inferno, we're all gonna have a good time together because We Are Family, all races, all sexualities, all occupations (even working at the Car Wash) without judgment, without guilt or stigma (she said Voulez vous couchez avec moi) and without fear. We had polyester, synthesizers and shitty cars and the world was our oyster. Rap - definitely music, some of the most creative stuff after everything else around stagnated. Punk - definitely music. Cheap Trick - hello there. It's all good baby. There's good music and there's crap in each generation. Oh, man, flashback coming ...

[Skittles]

65. alright I'll make an exception for the Bee Gees

they did do disco with style and f*** all the naysayers, I LOVED Rod Stewart's Do Ya Think I'm Sexy :D

[Uncle Joe]

35. That's a tough question, Bandit, each decade has it's pros and cons.

Idealistically speaking, the late 18th century 1776-1799 leading to the vision and conception of our democratic republic as a government supposedly owned by "We the people", although in reality many people were left out, at least the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution set the foundation to build on.

1830-1840 The Jacksonian Era when Andrew Jackson became the only U.S. President in United States History to pay off the national debt, while also having the greatest inaugural party at the White House to date, but not the Trail of Tears as just one example of oppression against the Native Americans throughout the 19th century.

1860s The abolition of slavery and the purchase of Alaska, but not the Civil War or Reconstruction.

1910-1920 The passing of the 19th Amendment giving women the right to vote.

1920-1930 The Grand Ole Opry first starts broadcasting on radio giving a cultural connection to many rural people separated by practically insurmountable distance for their means.

1930-1940 The passing of the 20th Amendment eliminating Big Brother inspired, organized crime empowering Prohibition, also the New Deal legislation and TVA bringing much of the south in to the 20th century.

1960-1970 Civil Rights legislation, the moon landing, also Rock and Roll.

1970-1980 President Carter promotes solar energy by installing solar panels on the White House, this was the first attempt to wean ourselves off carbon based fuels and foreign dictates, also Disco rules.

1980-2000 While in the Congress and as Vice-President Al Gore Jr. champions opening up the Internet from it's Defense Dept and university construct to all the people, this development becomes the greatest dynamic to eventually enhance the people's freedom of speech power to at least be competitive with the oligarchs and corporate owned mega horns since the First Amendment was first ratified in 1789-1791. Unfortunately this legislative and executive American People empowering achievement also earns Gore much enmity from the oligarch/mega corporate owned "free press;" which then goes on to enable an inferior prospect; in Bush to the nation's most powerful job by slandering, libeling and generally trashing Al Gore, while also demeaning the importance of the Presidency.

[pitohui]

40. the 1970s... drugs, sex, rock n roll for ALL

it won't happen again, it wouldn't be tolerated that the common blue collar guy could have that much freedom much less the common blue collar chick

there was a moment there when we chicks were actually equal and could do anything

now if you're not related to somebody, ain't gonna happen, before that, if you weren't related to somebody and from a rich family, it wasn't gonna happen

[carlyhippy]

48. Those were good times in a good era

glittery, happy, free...yeah

[Jawja]

43. 1960-1970

America landed men on the moon and made other "giant leaps" through a social awakening for racial civil rights and women's rights and sexual liberation.

[Skittles]

61. I agree n/t

[alphafemale]

64. Yeah. It's hard to top putting a man on the moon and civil rights legislation.

[fishwax]

51. I would say ... the next one

:bounce:

[Faygo Kid]

54. Hell, I got laid mutiple times in the early '70s.

All of those who have lived before us are dead now.

Any decade you live in is a good decade. Then you die.

That's why we eat ice cream. Dammit.

[Winterblues]

70. I don't know but I would be willing to bet there was a Democratic Majority at the time..

I know there was during the fifties and sixties and America faired well during those decades.

[2KS2KHonda]

72. Uh, the one before the apostrophe was invented.

:D :evilgrin: :rofl:

[depakid]

74. 1900-1910

Rolling back the Gilded Era- first powered flight, first radio broadcast, the Model T, air conditioning, washing machine, vaccuum cleaner, Einstein's relativity...

NO CONTEST there.

[ellisonz]

76. They all suck unless you don't count African-Americans, Mexicans, and Native Americans.

[Hidden Stillness]

78. New Deal 1930s

Well, of course there are many good things about many eras, and a lot of bad, and no era ever, as far as I'm concerned, has given much of any expression to anything women want and try to fight for, but I have developed a real love, over the years and from a far distance, for the 1930s. I can never know the decade from the inside, and some of it is idealized, but there are many attitudes I really love and wish we had more of here.

There was a great deal of progress on many fronts--Government programs to help people, many labor strikes and a lot of support for it, a very lively culture, with some of the greatest movies and movie stars ever, then, etc. An era that Studs Terkel, (either in the recent book "Touch and Go" or on the C-SPAN interview at the same time, I can't remember which now), remembered as the best era, because things were being solved, we were all united and with the New Deal programs, people felt hopeful again; there was a great deal of accomplishment, from infrastructure rebuilding to jobs and welfare programs, new regulations for banks, the stock market, employers, help with mortgage repayment, on and on. It was an era when the humorist and social commentator Will Rogers could actually say, truthfully, of Pres. Roosevelt, "I will say one thing for this Administration. It's the only time when the fellow with money is worrying more than the one without it." Could you imagine any circumstance today, where a President would be accused, angrily, of being "a traitor to their class" by the rich, for helping poor and middle class people, as FDR and Eleanor were?

It was an era of convention and tradition, yet where the Communist Party had its greatest polled popular support ever; an era where people read a lot more, and actually discussed politics for fun ("Hard Times," by Studs Terkel, and also my late parents' memories), and when there was a world less intrusive media control, a blessing. It was an era when movies laughing at or attacking rich people were very popular, from the screwball comedies ("Bringing Up Baby," "You Can't Take It With You," "My Man Godfrey," etc.) to Frank Capra, to "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington," to a very interesting movie called "Wild Boys of the Road," with its sympathetic-judge/New Deal program ending, from the powerful "I Am a Fugitive," about brutality in prison, to "Dead End" about poverty and the corrupt rich, and how poverty kills and twists the spirit, and of course "The Grapes of Wrath," etc. I don't think there was another era with so many social message movies, and they were popular.

A great President, great First Lady, heavily Democratic Congress, and people then were openly and commonsensically anti-big-business. No corporate Republican thought-control by way of phony "groovy archconservative male yukksters," etc. It was an era of progress on some of the basic needs--FDR's TVA program, which brought electricity to much of the country, ending the virtual slavery of having to do every single thing by getting buckets of water from a well, yet not to the mindless, techno-obsessed anti-reading level of today, where people now complain of not being able to get their minds to slow down anymore. Also, baseball was the National Pastime for real, then.

Many of the favorite stars of later eras were actually Communists or had Communists in their families, (even Lucille Ball, etc.), not because real Communism isn't horrific--it was and is--but because they wanted a solution to what even Roosevelt famously called "economic royalism," and they knew what the problem was. It was a deeply impressive (to me) mix of idealism and love of country, hope that it will be better and we all deserve a chance, etc., even with all its flaws, as no era has ever been different, even this one, and even the people who complain about this one, and with it, a very clearly directed anger at rich capitalists who caused our problems, and a plethora of solutions that they were actually working on.

There were many great people living then, the radical yet ordinary middle-of-the-road "New Deal" types, and this was the era that shaped by late, beloved Mom, so it was like a kind of American "height of greatness" to me. There were many things wrong with that era, as with every era--no real women's rights yet, people with mental illness were still abused horribly and not helped, etc.--but there was a lot about the general sense of things, the general trend of thought, that I love. It was a great era of Government/social progress.

[pleberio]

80. The 1930s

To speak in support of what Hidden Stillness says, but in fewer words:

In the 1930s we had FDR, who brought a new vision (not just a New Deal) of the progressive, reponsible and constructive role that government could play in the lives of people. Successive Republican leaders, including charming ones (e.g. Reagan), stupid ones (e.g. Bush 43), and bright yet scary ones (e.g. Gingrich) have not been able to totally dismantle, disprove, or dismiss the general ideas of FDR about the government's potential to act for the common good.