Why the "is it her son or grandson" matters to me

[lifesbeautifulmagic]

While i agree that until we have more proof, we should leave this alone, the story being better suited for the great and brave blog investigative journalists, personally, I feel the real story is the insurance fraud.

How many Americans out there with kids are without insurance? Are they sleeping well at night? In my state, Dino Rossi, the pubs candidate for governor, brags about his last time in office when he changed the eligibility rules and dumped thousands of kids off of the state insurance rolls. Not to mention that insurance fraud is a crime, and a crime that is vigorously prosecuted out here in the real world.

And my own story, being dumped from Company provided insurance to being 100% responsible for my families premium, starting in Oct. I have no idea where we are going to get the extra money, No idea. And it is a VERY VERY large amount. It would be so easy for me to make up alternate identities for my kids, perhaps going to the doctor under a cousins name and leaching on to my brothers policy, but since i understand that could land me in jail, it is not really an option, other then my fantasies.

.

[sharesunited]

1. Since maternal age is a significant influencing factor in Down's, Trig is most likely the Governor's

[CJCRANE]

2. 80% of children with Down syndrome are born to women under 35

"Although the probability increases with maternal age, 80% of children with Down syndrome are born to women under the age of 35, reflecting the overall fertility of that age group".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down%27s_Syndrome#Incidence

[unblock]

8. risk for a 45 year old: 3.5%; risk for a 20 year old: 0.1%

so going on that alone, it's at least 35 TIMES more likely to be her child than her grandchild.

[CJCRANE]

9. delete

I'll let the statisticians argue it out.

[tavalon]

15. Most of the down's syndrome kids I saw born

were born to the under 20 set. There are far more babies overall born to younger women that to the over 40 women. In fact, the odds of getting pregnant after 40 without assistance are quite slim.

[dkf]

4. I posed this question earlier. Apparently more Down's kids are born to younger moms

simply because there are more kids born in this demographic anyway.

[lifesbeautifulmagic]

5. we need some investigative journalists to do some work on this

because if we are going to use statistics to determine final judgment, it should be noted that it is even rarer for a case of mono to last 4 months. JMHO

[CJCRANE]

6. IIRC the mono lasted at least 5 and possibly up to 8 months nt

[orleans]

16. from wiki:

"After an initial prodrome of 1-2 weeks, the fatigue of infectious mononucleosis often lasts from 1-2 months. "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infectious_mononucleosis

but...i had it when i was in my late teens and it wiped me out--i vaguely remember being laid up for MONTHS (not just 1-2 months). i wish i could specifically remember--but i want to say it fucked me up for nearly 6 months (i wasn't in school so i wasn't missing school, if i had i might be able to remember a time length better)

btw--"initial prodrome" -- what the hell is a "prodrome?"

[Trajan]

3. I think that mother's who assume guardianship of a grandchild ....

Because the child (the baby's real mother) is unable to perform that role, is doing a great service for her family and the community ...

BUT ...

This was about shame of the 'appearance' of a daughter unwed and unready to assume the role of mother ... To create this complex subterfuge to obscure the real parentage, and to lie to the citizens in her constituency, is enough of an indicator of a lack of character and integrity ...

I doubt the fraud aspect, and here is why: The Doctors did NOT help Sarah Palin birth a child (if she was not pregnant), and so the hospital administrators MUST have been aware of the real parentage, and they would not have knowingly participated in a deception such as this, merely to protect the 'family honor' of the Palins ...

Hence: I believe the medical plan actually accounted the procedures to the real mother, and the fraud, if it exists, was a public fraud .... NOT insurance fraud ...

That is just my guess ....

[lifesbeautifulmagic]

7. yes, I think you are probably correct

however, I would like to know for sure.

[marshall]

10. I don't understand how it could be construed as insurance fraud

Assuming Bristol is the child's mother she is still a minor and all the medical expenses would be covered by her parents' insurance. I really don't see the benefit of the family concocting this kind of ruse.

I think a better direction to take if one wants to bring the governor's competence into play is to question the prudence of willfully bringing a child burdened with down syndrome into the world. She had the opportunity to end this child's suffering when she found out several months before he was born that he had the extra chromosome. But she selfishly chose to make him a hallmark of her contempt for a woman's right to choose. Not to mention her other children whose lives are forever changed by having to care for their disabled sibling.

[lifesbeautifulmagic]

11. true , the minor daughter would be covered

but would the grandson? Also, I think the lying, if she did lie, speaks to her character, as well as her lack of care going into delivery (if she did deliver).

[marshall]

12. He would be covered if she adopted him

Depending on the policy he might even be covered if she and her husband were merely appointed his guardians. My state provided insurance policy covers foster children.

[robinlynne]

18. not the lifetime of the child. which will be very expensive! only the labor itself would be covered.

[Igel]

13. Why I care.

I was in a fundie church for a while. The choir director was a bit of an iconoclast, and the old prude brigade didn't like him. They considered him a wrong fit for the choir director job, and tried to get him fired. They failed; he was a good composer, talented conductor, great baritone, could play keyboard and oboe, worked well with the kids and the choir. But he wasn't "right".

His kids were a bit wild, on the surface. One left home asap to be a flight attendant. She came back, laid off after 3 months, but had gotten drunk with a pilot during that time and got into bed with him. The next day he apologized, said he was a louse, and avoided her. A month after she was laid off, the pregnancy test came back positive. Little Stevie appeared 6 months later.

The church was, by and large, great. She turned responsible. Her younger brother, also wild, saw that she had made a mistake, and that most people took it in stride.

Except the old prude brigade. They wanted to know who the daddy was. They couldn't actually believe what was said; the girl, a fornicator, must also be a liar. And her father, who actually cracked jokes about sex, deserved no good will. As good Christians, it was their place to judge, to ridicule, to hate, loathe, and raise all kinds of questions. After all, it's just a question, right? (Hey--are we sure Obama's dad really is the Kenyan deadbeat dad, and not some basketball player that date-raped his ma one night when she was high and drunk? Hey, just a question! What did I say?)

"Daddy", by a horrible misfortune, lived a mile from the choir director, with his wife and two teenage kids. The girl didn't want to break up their family; she had asked around, and the pilot didn't have a rep as a predator. He made a mistake, and the girl was happy enough with the results. She told her parents who the father was; and a couple of friends, me included in them. Her parents approved. She stayed with them, and they raised the kid together when he was born.

The pious prudes would have none of it. She was told she was covering sin, worse than the sin itself. She said she was showing forgiveness and allowing for the guy to repent and tell his wife. (He did, his wife was pissed, and they never told the kids, as far as I know. And child support was immediately forthcoming.) I side with her. The pious prudes wanted to destroy a family instead of help the people involved.

Months later, a rumor surfaced: The choir director was the boy's father, which started out as, "Are we sure that the boy isn't the choir director's kid? They have the same color hair". Uh-huh. They found a way to try to damage the choir guy's rep, for their own personal use, in a way that they found titillating.

They couldn't face the consequences.

The choir director's wife nearly had a nervous breakdown. She refused to stay in the house the church rented at very low rates to them, and moved out. The pious prudes said to fire the choir director because his wife wasn't attending, and because he couldn't "keep his household in subjection" or some such nonsense. They denied any responsibility for their evil.

The choir director's inlaws couldn't come to town for services--they were in a neighboring city. Friends they'd had for 40 years had said that basically her husband had humped her daughter, and she was too stupid, weak, or immoral to care. The pious prude brigade was told *not* to go to where they attended, and the pious prudes about crapped their pants. They were the victims. The inlaws were hateful people.

The choir director's mother, who also knew the pious prudes for decades, told them to go and stuff the church organ up their asses. The pious prudes called for her--a good alto and organist--to not be allowed to attend until she apologized.

The church music program vanished for 6 months because the choir director couldn't bring himself to attend services. The pious prudes whined that they hated singing hymns without accompaniment, and demanded that the choir director be fired for non-performance of duties.

The kids were the worst, having just been convinced by the majority that the church wasn't hateful and judgmental. The girl had been told that she was essentially her father's lover. The son went off the deep end at outrage over the abuse heaped on his sister, his father, and the hurt done to his relatives. They got their revenge as only they could.

The girl showed up her last day dressed like a hooker. Skimpy top laced loosely from just above nipple to just below breast, miniskirt with a slit up to her left hip, black fishnet stockings and stiletto heels (ok, "movie hooker"). Painted and coiffed to match. "Outrageous?" "Why, Mabel, I'm just living up to your expectations. Don't you *like* being right?" She personally flirted with every one of the male pious prudes, and insisted on calling the female one's by appropriate names, as well, until she finally got too pissed off and told them that maybe that was their problem--they needed to get laid after at least 40 years of no sex with their husbands, "not that anybody could blame your husbands."

The son waited until the following week. He showed up in black leather. Now, this church ended services with a hymn and a closing prayer. One guy would say some sort of prayer (free form, no set words) while the rest bowed their heads and studied their feet. Also note that while there was a door at the back of the hall, there was a side door "pulpit" right that led to the parking lot, and a side door "pulpit left" that led to a hall that led to an equipment room and another exit). When we said "amen" and looked up, some of us laughed reflexively. Most didn't. Zack had decided that he'd have fun. He had walked in front of where the gaggle of pious prudes sat and dropped his pants and underwear, bending over. The pious prudes looked up to be greated by a rather scrawny white ass staring them in the face, cheeks spread. He stood up after a respectful moment, turned around to show that he'd been a bit busy while facing away from them, and told the Christ-hating self-righteous Pharisees to go fuck themselves if they couldn't bring themselves to figure out what Christianity was supposed to do, and if they needed reminding as to how it went, well ... (then he thrust his hips a few times and wagged his erect dick). Only *then* did he start to pull up his pants, while walking out the side door.

The pious prudes had gazes of pious self-righteous injury. I laughed at them, too. In their faces. And said that that's the *least* of what they deserved.

The following week the minister found the guts to give a sermon on the matter and go against the pious prudes. He said that the next person he caught even mentioning the rumor would be gone, unless they stood up and publicly apologized to everybody involved at services; nobody could be a Christian, or even claim minimal empathy, sympathy, and compassion--or intelligence--and stick to that filth. The following week the choir director was back. Alone.

All the pious prudes were still there. Livid with hate at not having their viciousness termed compassion, their hate termed love, and their pettiness termed honor. They were so incredibly, impossibly, outrageously self-deluded they thought they were right and righteous.

It took months for choir director's wife, his mother, and his inlaws to get over their personal affronts. His wife never did fully re-commit to the church. The son decided that the Army was more compassionate that the church, so he enlisted.

So much hate, so much contempt, such a lack of good will, utter absence of sympathy, a void of intellectual rigor, bitterness and impotence, all bound up in a little bundle termed "goodness" and "compassion" and "being right". And such a depth of blindness at not being able to see it, even when pointed out over and over that their self-righteousness exceeded that of the Pharisees, and going on the attack.

Pitiful, really. Truly pitiful, warped excuses for humanity, they were.

And I see it again, old politics, the politics of personal destruction, so hated when it's turned against one of the pure and righteous, whatever his acts, and so admired and honored when turned against one of the hated sinful cretins, whatever their acts. The attempts to say that it's innocent, that it's justice, that it hurts and cannot hurt anybody, that it's actually just critical thinking and compassion that feeds the hate and blindness.

So much self-delusion termed enlightenment. The attitudes of the most retrograde of the fundies in my old fundie church, so retrograde that the other fundies found them repulsive and reptilian, termed "progressive".

Tschau.

[tavalon]

14. That is actually a good angle

I've been trying to figure out how this needs to be framed. I was, until recently, a labor and delivery nurse with 18+ years experience. I honed my skill at being able to estimate gestation based on belly bump and parity (a person who has had a baby before always shows earlier and more, no matter how many crunches) and I was and still am extremely good at it. If those pictures that are circulating are really dated correctly, Sarah was not seven months pregnant, but her daughter definitely was. And most Down's syndrome children are actually born to those under 40, but that would be because so few babies are born to the over 40 set. In other words, I am convinced that this child is her grandson but I didn't know how to frame it to make it politically important, but I think you have it.

[robinlynne]

17. absolutely! even more so on the public dime.