What if they called a culture war and the target walked away?

[undergroundpanther]

I know this OP will bother some here.But it is just another way of looking at an old idea.

I ask you all, when is enough enough?


Sometimes all the cultural issues and bad personality flaws in republicans and fundamentalists is intolerable to be around without slowly going insane. So I gotta wonder if the only way to be free of right wing assholes, bullies and psychopaths is to make a space without them in it..

After all what kind of crimes and harassment will you put up with in the name of unity until you decide to create an ASSHOLE FREE ZONE and decide who is in or out based on character and beliefs about how relationships should be like? Some people will not change because they think they are fine as they are,they project all over you and scapegoat you.You can't make them change. But while you are trying to get them to see your point of view and getting yourself hurt, you might as well admit it at some point this culture war is going to end.One way or another.

Here is my post describing the kind of Asshole Free Zone I would create if I could, if enough people would like asshole free culture it could become bigger and bigger until this zone would come into conflict with the people unwilling to not be assholes.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/undergroundpanther/37

This zone creation can happen the other way around,too. No Liberal zones.In fact it already is happening,in certain areas in this country.The assholes who find us scary or threatening to themself and their social control or ways are clustering together declaring they don't like us bleeding heart liberals and atheists,anywhere near them.They shun and harass us for existing nearby and they buy up land to exclude..US..


If a LOT of people agree with the definition of what kind of asshole they cannot live with, and if they are on the same page regarding this definition and they are sick of the other being there...Starting culture wars and attacks on them and trying to limit their freedoms and human rights..Eventually the 'enemies' just might gather together move away create their own Asshole Free Zone and say fuck unity,find a chunk of land,go live on it build a community inside this sick dying empire and declare this is OUR place now and we will exclude the assholes who fuck up our way of life and corrupt our power structures by force.Intentional communities on a bigger scale.

The gays did it.
http://gayhomeland.org/

Separation sometimes is the only path ,when cultures have intractable differences and are abusing each other.To me,the right wing has serious ethical problems,toxic personality problems and they are very self focused to the point their empathy for those different then themselves or in need who isn't part of their circle of acquaintances is seen someone trying to control their lives or take their stuff,and sometimes you cannot live around an asshole who's very psychological make up is so limited and controlling..You have to either fight them until they stop it or stop playing the game that isn't working anymore and part ways.

Sometimes I feel this country has become too big and bureaucratic for the people have real access to the mechanisms of power.It is too impersonal to feel as if we are actually engaging in the process of our own democracy. It's all top down when it comes to our obeying paying up and laws even stupid shit from people we find morally bankrupt like Paulin's rapist rights crap.The power at the top has made the process to power difficult to weed out people from lower classes or who think differently than the rich right thinks already. They can act affect our lives via cops military black water etc. But they are unapproachable by us on a human level and so don't have to listen to us.

People have no unscripted glimpse of who a candidate is until after they are in office and usually it is a scandal.. We vote for mask and have no idea WHO the PERSON we are voting for IS really like as a person their true beliefs and stuff without the scripts and talking points and just so lighting..and crews of PR people grooming them to appear as if the candidate was intimate with you even though you only see the image and the person remains a mystery unless scandals appear...This every 4 year hoodwinking of us via media,manipulation of our emotions ,crafted image and money has gone on so long the powerful think they can do what they want without any consequences as long as us plebeians don't know.

How do you bring haughty power down to street level? Drag them down by taking back your power to say no, you are not MY president!! Step one is admitting you can't live with an asshole's dominion over your life.And the asshole's corrupted laws ,criminal conduct and bullshit The purpose of creating an ASSHOLE FREE ZONE is to get away from the,assholes.

When our government is too far away it creates a feeling of futility and powerlessness especially the lower down the income ladder you go it is unmanagable..Smaller states where the leaders cannot make themselves untouchable from the people they govern is accomplished when there are fewer people around sucking the leaders ass and different ethical standards are in place.In a different culture to waste time insulating leaders from the people's wrath would be ethically wrong.Tribes worked for millions of years.A tribe need not give up running water or electric to be a self governing asshole free zone..

Let the republican assholes and evangelical freaks take say,South Carolina.They've said that they wanted to secede, already what do you think that declaration of culture war on a too unwieldy nation with different ways of doing relationships MEANS.

It is us or them.That's what they have said. They already have pulled away from the country unity idea it just isn't official yet.They have a cross flag some churches will fly even with the American flag..what does that mean flag protocol wise??
It is saying the christian "nation" is equal to the United States, it is a subtle way to declare secession.


And the sign said long haired freaky people need not apply...
Because they are at war with OUR culture,Freedom to be who we are is the battlefield, the place to exist without the other (us) or us conquered and the left dominated by the right is the prize they seek but act so coy about as they bully us to look stupid or 'radical' on right wing owned tv.It is a culture war.And they started it.Because we didn't want to live like the christian right wing taliban anymore.And fought for our rights to BE.
http://christianexodus.org/index.php?module=htmlpages&func=display&pid=4


Could you live with those people,under their governance,obey their laws.I know it would drive me crazy.
So if the right wingers want to secede and separate from the nation by controlling South Carolina I say let them have it.Liberals in South Carolina will be surrounded by assholes if they do not do their own exodus to more tolerable culturally sane areas.

IF... we liberals want to make a space for ourselves why not? Maybe if we are lucky we will never have to see another goddamn republican pig or fundie monster again or deal with their neurotic shit, power corrupting and stupid bible pushing crap..
Republicans and fundies are assholes that deserve each other.

We deserve something better than this intractable situation.

How long until we find our rights are gone and we are subjects of the right wing christan nazi nation? When is enough enough,to fight and crush the right or leave them behind and forge an asshole free future?

To be honest...
I dunno if it is even possible to do an asshole free zone if it gets past a certain size.Wish it was possible sometimes tho.

[OmahaBlueDog]

1. So, if I read this right, you're saying "bust her up"? Is that a fair statement?

Break the US into 1-2 nations that are authoritarian theocracies, and 1-2 EU style nations?

[undergroundpanther]

5. Break it as much as it needs to

Even if it means tribal sized chunks.Things must become manageable for people to have access to power over their own lives.If we want sanity in culture and governance we are going to have to bring it closer..If we want to live free of people who are hell bent on dominating us we may not be the ones busting her up,but the effects of the right will in essence do it already. Do we have a place in this process we did not start..but is happening anyway or are we just going to let the right tell us where to go like sheep to slaughter?
That's the real question..
http://www.nolanchart.com/article4381.html

Culture war on the empire side ..is..like this,force, abuse of power..by fiat,by a decision from the top with no imput from those subjected to it.It is in an empires interest to stop other more free cultures from existing within the empire.This is why tribal cultures are destroyed by empires .


" Rather than seeking to control outbreaks of violence, we must together transform our social structures to prevent the harm that causes them. Otherwise, peacemaking will remain a patch on the contradictions of our current unsustainable "domination system."
Dismantling Domination: An Epidemiological Approach
By Jennifer Atieno Fisher.

As late as the early 1950’s, the federal government decided to act upon a policy of terminating American Indian Tribes and assimilating Tribal members into the mainstream U.S. population...

The Self governing tribes
http://www.big-valley.net/history/ltr_rb.htm

Lakota are fighting another culture war, against fraud imperialism,and capitalism,the commercializing of Native Spirituality by for profit new age "culture".Lakota Declared culture War to keep their culture from being exploited further.
http://nativenet.uthscsa.edu/archive/nl/9308/0227.html
In these ways the US is being slowly re-tribalized.
Every intentional community is a tribe against the assimilation of the dominating culture the people making or who go to these communities basically are making a new culture,and zone for each other.
http://oll.libertyfund.org/index.php?option=com_staticxt&staticfile=show.php%3Ftitle=916&layout=html
http://www.newtribalventures.com/NTV/
http://www.ic.org/

[Chovexani]

2. Hey panther.

I missed that asshole-free post you made a while back but reading it brought tears to my eyes 'cause it's so fucking true.

I wish we could. I really do, more than anything. But then my cynicism about humanity kicks in and how at the end of the day it is a petty, hateful species that inevitably eats each other in the name of survival. This Palin bullshit just reinforces that to me.

I hesitated to not just PM you this reply but what the hell. That post made me cry because I've felt the same way my whole life. You and I have talked and you know why that is. It really feels like all I can do is skip my merry trickster ass along and fiddle while the ship goes down (oh lord I'm mixing metaphors again).

I don't know WHAT we can do. Asshole cancer is everywhere. I'm trying to make my own little sustainable bubble with my tribe of hearts.

Sometimes I understand the impulse of the Rapture crowd, but from a totally different angle. That scares me. We gotta FIX this shit, pronto. But asshole cancer is just eating it alive.

[undergroundpanther]

7. Chexovani I loves you.

>I missed that asshole-free post you made a while back
>but reading it brought tears to my eyes
>'cause it's so fucking true.

Yeah I was crying as I was talking to my shrink about it that day too.

>I wish we could. I really do, more than anything.
Me too,That's why I pour my heart out here.

>I don't know WHAT we can do. Asshole cancer is everywhere. I'm >trying to make my own little sustainable bubble with my tribe of >hearts.

You got the first part down,next you have to PROTECT it with clear boundaries.
People who are battered by this world have to learn how to connect with an INNER locus of control first.To accept necessary anger violence sometimes IS for a valid reason.

People need to learn to recognize abuse as abuse,stop projecting them self as if decent people are capable of doing horrors like raping a child.

To see an asshole as an asshole. Than to learn to destroy the asshole without guilt or regrets.Reinforce boundaries in any way that removes the assholes presence,from your space. Learn to become intolerant as hell of the intolerable and make clear boundaries and healthy expectations that others have to meet to be considered part of the haven,you have to accept a gatekeeper role and to close your heart to assholes ..and than be able to switch back to having a kind open heart to those of your tribe,and be kind to people until they reveal asshole traits and ruthlessly tear them down.Don't confuse your own self/community defense motives with a perpetrator's motive of choosing to be an asshole and abuse. Whenever you act in defense of your right to BE.And live Free from abuse.
You have to embrace not only your goodness but also your wickedness and viciousness and aim it at assholes,and be willing to admit when you miss the mark and apologize.It takes a fierce humility..



>Sometimes I understand the impulse of the Rapture crowd, but from a >totally different angle.

I understand that too.The difference is motives..The rapture crowd is driven by NARCISSISM and Vengeance based on sucking up a metaphysical bully/sugar daddy to vindicate them and give them power and exclude others from power,and prove themselves right and holier than thou.See god said so....

The Gnostic's were driven by a desire to be liberated from assholes,"archons"and the shackles upon the heart body and mind put there by Archons and to ease the sick conditions here that hurt life and find a way to go...home..to live in peace.

>That scares me. We gotta FIX this shit, pronto.
>But asshole cancer is just eating it alive.

Yeah it IS scary..
Sometimes you have to let the world go to save it.T'Maat Sekhmet.

Yep And as long as people keep on identifying and confusing who THEY are with assholes and empathizing with assholes who have no empathy,trying to pretend the world is just or karma exists they will never see what it is that abuses them let alone become the kind of tactical warrior and boundary keeper required to have an asshole free zone exist in this world.Assholes are drawn to asshole free zones like moths to a porch light. So boundaries MUST be clear and guarded,and assholes removed.

Here is an example of one kind of tactical asshole removal.Leaving somewhere I loved to save it..

I used to be a board member of a group called Hearts and Ears for awhile. While I was there I pointed out the ethical boundaries..So it stayed an asshole free zone for awhile.It was great until a new president got in there,he convinced the founder of H&E to relocate to a building he worked at(conflict of interest) and he exploited his power in that conflict,he started targeting board members for elimination that knew what the difference between top down power is VS grass roots power sharing and were boundary keepers.It was all very manipulative..

The founder was a trifle narcissistic and ethically stupid she was totally hoodwinked by this asshole creep she made 'president'.He became a little autocrat,and that sent me in the red flag zone.I warned the founder she ignored it. Soon those two wanted to expel me from the board because I didn't put up with bullshit from them. Especially when they seemed hell bent on turning a board position at H&E into some stupid egotistical power trip.

Soon they had a meeting to decide if I should be expelled from the board.

During the usual meeting part, Inwardly I was chanting Ta'maat Sekhmet.Roughly Truth to power or Truth is power.To keep myself centered.

Since I had gotten volunteer of the year the two years I attended there..I wasn't a slouch.So they had to find another excuse to give me Das Boot..Ironically the mentally ill founder of an organization for GBLT with mental illness ..pulled the mental illness card on me as her excuse.Pot,kettle,black? LAME.

I was asked by the other people on the board,why I still wanted to work with H&E and sure enough as I began to say why, I broke down, I was trying not to cry,but my heart just poured out and the vision of the safe haven from abusers how badly a place like that was needed by people who are GBLT and wounded already.I told them how I really felt.I hid nothing.

I spoke of grassroots power compared to top down bullshit,I said all of it.. The president and founder assholes didn't get enough votes to expel me from the board because it was only their two hands saying yea.It showed the whole board who the problem was really..But as I left I gave a cry of justice to H&E,T'MaatSekhmet Truth to Power & the boundary redrawn to Change or Die.And I walked out the door.I cried all the way home.I didn't go back there for around 9 months.When I did go back I got choked up that the big black glittery banner I had made for pride in '04 was hanging in the window,and ironically the doors of the new location have two big lion door knockers, is it Sekhmet protecting H&E?? I dunno interesting to speculate however.


Without the scapegoat(me)there the truth had to come out about who was corrupting power there.Because I sure as hell wasn't.It was one of the hardest things I have ever done to let go,walk away from the only asshole free zone I have ever seen on this Earth,leaving it to change or die, to save it from itself or let it destroy itself.

Hearts and Ears survived. They got rid of both the corrupt president(he was a thief too) and corrupted founder. Hearts and Ears wants me back on the board but I have no way to get there I miss the place...bad.It is a haven to me.
This is one example of dealing with corruption of power in a group setting. I had to TRUST myself and let go and trust in the vision of Hearts and Ears.

Heres a link to it.
http://www.heartsandears.org/

[The Traveler]

3. Panther, I have long speculated

that what we need is a national divorce. We, the abused rational plurality, need to be separate from the whack jobs who work so hard to exert their dominance and control over us. Let them have their Christian state. We will have the better Christians, the smartest of our millions, and the bravest. And in the long run, we shall see which party lives the best. The sweetest revenge is, of course, to live well ...

Bright blessings, buddy,

Trav

[undergroundpanther]

8. National divorce

Because of spouse abuse.
Fits the pattern doesn't it? Of a dysfunctional relationship to a tee.
Asshole mistreats spouse until spouse can't stand it,so spouse declares divorce in search of a saner way of life,That is what living with abusers does.You can't live with an abuser. Not without getting traumatized hurt and emotionally battered until all you have is an almost suicidal kind of powerless apathetic obedience..

[Arugula Latte]

9. I live in Portland because I NEED to live apart from these rightwingnut freaks.

I just can't stand them, and life is too short to live amongst the enemy.

[undergroundpanther]

11. This is why I do not

Go and post on right wing sites and argue with them.Other Dem's can use anything I write if they want ammo in debates, if they can stomach contact with them good for them,but they will have to realize some will not change because they think they are perfect already.. You cannot reason with psychopaths,even sub clinical ones.People need to understand that it's a problem in the personality and they will not have insight to change it.It's who they ARE and it is incurable.

Just as incurable as you being who YOU are..You are protean
You seek Knowledge.


A right winger fears the proteans bringing change.They perceive with a kind of ethical/empathy tunnel vision that they like and will let limit how they see the world because it feels"safe" and like being in control.. Remember... Was it pickles who made that horrible comment during Katrina about her "beautiful mind"?
Right wingers want certainty.



Archons and Anti Archons-(Anarchists)These are the two essences in opposition.

Authoritarianism and freedom from abuse of power are INCOMPATIBLE and can never give in to the other.It's an unsolvable problem with who we are and who they are...

[Raksha]

4. Asshole Free Zone = Intentional Community...

It's an idea that really seems to be catching on these days, and with an incredibly diverse group of people. Some thinking in terms of a spiritually-oriented community, others more secular.

One guy I know made a killing in the gold market some years back (bought low, sold at the peak) and used the proceeds to buy a big plot of land in Central America. Originally he was going to build a compound when he retires, mostly for members of his own family. Oh yes, and as a kind of refuge in case the U.S. becomes even more fascist than it is already. He was very surprised when he started talking about it on a discussion board, and a bunch of his friends all said, "Hey, can I come?" It was amazing how much energy the idea generated in a short time.

My daughter and her S.O. and a bunch of her friends in Reclaiming are also looking to start an intentional community. I met one of the other members at Witchcamp at the end of June and told her I intend to get on their e-mail list in the very near future. They are looking to buy a plot of land big enough that they (or should I say we?) can grow most of our own food.

I know there's at least one person on DU who already lives in an intentional community, and there are probably more I don't know about. It's an idea whose time has come. For one thing, it may become a necessity for survival if America degenerates into a fascist-induced Depression 2.0. It WON'T be the dog-eat-dog Social Darwinists who survive. It will be the anti-authoritarians and communitarians.

[undergroundpanther]

10. Yep

>It WON'T be the dog-eat-dog Social Darwinists who survive. It will be >the anti-authoritarians and communitarian's.

Yes!!...IF the anti authoritarians become as intolerant of domination and sensitized to it's many forms and weapons from guns to words and atmospheric coercion as they need to be to survive,and IF the communitarian's give up on pie in the sky purist ideologies don't get obsessed with on Gandhi's failed pacifism and instead defend their community and ethical boundaries and expectations as ruthlessly and as cunning as if it was their own child,than we may have a chance.

[lib2DaBone]

6. Good Idea.. let them have South Carolina....

They already have Florida.. let them have that too. I don't want my taxes going to Iraq any longer. I don't want my taxes supporting companies that take our jobs to China. I want to live in State with Solar Energy, Clean air, clean water and most of all.. no Mega Churches. BTW.. Senators will not be allowed to hang out in mens room stalls at the airport.

[undergroundpanther]

12. Me too

Can you imagine a liberal state,where everyone could finally RELAX and innovate,without threatening some corporate hegemony, create without offending uptight church marms and be who they ARE without fear of being harassed fired or hurt and feel safe enough to take care of each other and expect when they are down they will not be abandoned by the community?Can you imagine a state without abusers of power or career assholes?

[undergroundpanther]

13. Do you all think I should journal this post?

So it doesn't dissappear?