Leave it alone

[qwertyMike]

Obama's mom was pregnant when she was 18.

This is not Partisan crap.

Mike

[TwilightGardener]

1. So, when the VP pick makes her job as mother a central rationale

as to why she deserves to be a heartbeat away from the Presidency, and then offers her kids up as political props in her debut speech, we are then not to examine her family life AT ALL? When she advocates abstinence only, and wants to keep birth control away from your teenagers and mine, we're not allowed to note how well that policy worked in her own family? No one is picking on the kid--her MOTHER dragged her into this.

[mike_c]

2. was she anti women's reproductive rights too?

Did she oppose sex education, birth control, and other rational approaches to human sexuality? Did she advocate curtailing social programs for young, unwed parents? Those are the more compelling issues IMO, not the age anyone gets pregnant.

[avaistheone1]

86. Right on. This is about public policy on reproductive rights and sex education.

It is not about Sarah Palin, or Obama's mama.

It about putting a women in power like Sarah Palin wants to intrude on the privacy of millions of women all over this country by banning abortion and outlawing birth control and having abstinence only classes for kids.

[Warpy]

3. Was his grandmother in politics campagining against sex education?

THAT is why this matters so much. Palin's daughter is pregnant because she was denied truthful information about sexuality by her mother's campaign against giving kids the facts. Palin's daughter is suffering because her mother is pushing her religion as law.

Keep the focus where it belongs, on PALIN.

This isn't about a kid getting pregnant too soon. It's about a bible beating Barbie doll who set up the conditions for it. It's about a right wing attack on science and on our kids. It's about the right wing trying to push their religious agenda on everybody in the country.

This is when we get people to answer the clue phone.

[JuniperLea]

19. Don't forget that Palin put her daughter in this national fish bowl

She had to know this would become an issue... and she did it anyway.

[Wednesdays]

85. Unfortunately, people even here have very short memories

Everyone is falling for the GOP's spin on this. Never mind that the mother Palin started it all with her press conference.

[seemslikeadream]

4. Did she use her children as a prop?

[endarkenment]

5. I'll stop when they stop.

They promoted Palin as Super-Duper Mom, and it turns out that she is the matriarch of the Clampet Fambly, it turns out that she is a corrupt lying politician, a vile fundamentalist lunatic who wants to impose her failed family values on your family, and a hypocrite of the worst sort.

This is partisan crap.

[samuraiguppy]

88. hey the Clampetts are funny!

but you are right--backwoods, bimbo, bible-thumping barbie has to go...

[RainDog]

6. Obama's mother did not try to claim she was the voice of moral values for the U.S.

as the republican party tries to do.

his mother didn't deny funding for sex education and ONLY put money into abstinence only programs.

look, this is about politics. She's a politician and the failure of her political ideology is pretty apparent if you support abstinence only sex ed and then have a kid who is pregnant at 17.

that's a failure to address the reality of the world. I don't need something like that in the halls of power in my govt.

[emilyg]

7. I guess I'm the only one

who agrees with you.

[Karenina]

8. Yup, yup!

:rofl:

[FedUpWithIt All]

9. You are not. by a long shot. Some are just feeling mighty important because they found an easy

target in the form of a teen aged pregnant girl and her teen aged friends.



Their Super Duper Democratic saving spy activities have ramped them up a little. Short attention spans though. They will tire of it all soon and move on.

[RainDog]

10. this situation goes to the core of the failure of republican policies

it shows that "abstinence only" programs are worthless. The data supports this as well.

Too bad you seem to think that anyone who comments on this issue is talking about one 17 year old girl. This is about all 17 year old girls, whether you want to believe it or not.

[FedUpWithIt All]

12. Uh huh. n/t

[RainDog]

14. what the fuck do you know about me?

why don't you read what I have said about this issue. I'm not someone who has brought up who was pregnant when, etc. However, your snide little dismissal shows that you are as stereotypically ignorant as you claim others to be.

I have no need to see you around here again.

[FedUpWithIt All]

21. "Too bad you seem to think "

Your quote about ME.

I don't believe you know me either.

I have read what you said about the matter. And i have read what many others have said.

I HAVE a 16 yr old daughter. I know what her life will be like if we allow our bullshit to negatively affect this election. Our nominated official TOLD US TO STOP THIS! I am asking him to decide our country's security, our economy...i will allow him to decide what is appropriate in HIS campaign.

[RainDog]

34. wow, your obescience is... something.

I have children also. sons. I was repulsed by the last three elections and by the democrats failure to oppose a war of aggression, aka a war crime, that would force me to send my children to live elsewhere - because there is no way they would fight for fascists.

As I noted before, what I said is truth. It speaks to the failure of the republicans.

If you want people to support Obama, there are better ways than trying to insult them. I phone banked for him, but if I'm required to leave my brain at the door to be for Obama, then I guess I should just sit it out till voting day. oh, and shut up, right?

[FedUpWithIt All]

35. I am not sure if you will see this RainDog but i would like to apologize.

I was rash. It was unfair to behave like that toward you. It was directed more at the tone the entire discussion has been taking.

I agree about the Republican failings regarding teen sexual health but i disagree that disregarding Obama, insulting young people and ignoring other means of political debate are the way to go about stopping the McCain/Palin ticket. It IS what it is all about for many people here.

It is not blind worship...far from it. Unlike my fiance i am not 100% on Obama. It just feels too easy and i do not think that the machine just plans on handing over power. That said, this is who we are nominating. This is who we NEED TO WIN. I trust that Obama has a pretty good feel for how he plans on getting there and i plan to help him as much as possible. Sending Palin into the protective embrace of fundies is not the way to do that IMO.

[EFerrari]

23. If that were really true, there would be no threads attacking

Bristol Palin's gift registry, right?

If the situation were really talked about in the thoughtful way you're describing,(note, not humorless but thoughtful), that would be one thing. But that doesn't really happen here, as far as I can tell.

Of course abstinence only is worthless, worse than worthless. Of course Caribou Barbie is a lying scumbag and a hypocrite. We already know that. Yes, the Republicans are filth who enjoy personal smears and who invent them when they can't produce real ones, the more intimate the better. Check.

Do you really want to become the Taliban to fight the Taliban? I don't. Whatever. To each, his own.

[FedUpWithIt All]

24. I just want to say...

:hi:

[EFerrari]

28. Good morning, Camper!

:hi:

[RainDog]

31. I am stating my view on the subject.

I do not control what others here say about Palin, etc. My pov is entirely within the bounds of political discourse and it's about a subject that should be addressed.

I am not becoming the taliban and to state such is ridiculous.

I think the problem is that there are people on this board who have been having an ongoing argument about this. I, however, have posted about this subject today. only today.

It highly offensive to try to state that my post relates to some bullshit about a gift registry, isn't it? I would imagine you would find that strange and offense if you were in my situation.

[EFerrari]

32. I wasn't trying to offend you, Raindog, but to point out that

in the context of this board, the kind of rational discussion you're suggesting isn't happening.

If your own posts change that, cool. It will be a big improvement, imho.

[LSK]

38. you know damn well that thousands of people can post threads here

and just because a few people go off tangent does not mean we cannot point out the hypocrisy of the GOP with their family values.

These right wingers RUN on the moral high ground, preach absenance only, try to outlaw abortion, birth control, sex education, and this is the result of their policies and beliefs. They sit on their high horse about how proper they are and have the moral high ground and here you go, their VP candidate does not live up to their own standards.

[EFerrari]

40. If we couldn't point out Republican hypocrisy, Skinner would have to shut down.

lol

There was a guy on Amy's show today that showed a film he made at the RNC convention. He went and asked if Senator McCain's opposition to funding sex ed was a bad idea in view of teen pregnancy -- to one of McCain's family members sitting on the floor of the Convention. He asked similar questions to several people. He was great and he didn't bring up Bristol Palin's name once. If you get a chance, catch the second hour of DN! today.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

42. no, i agree too. demonizing teen mothers is a right wing position

not ours.

[DemoRabbit]

11. Correct me if I'm wrong...

But Obama's mom didn't run on a pro-life, abstinence-only political platform to be the 2nd in charge of America... did she?

[Lex]

15. Some people can't spot the issue

and just see it as picking on an 18 year old.

[endarkenment]

25. some people are brainwashed by corpmedia

and don't realize they aren't thinking, they are obeying. The need those special glasses.

[EFerrari]

27. I actually think that's wrong. Some of us just don't think that

enabling that kind of privacy violation is without price or even, the best way to get at the issue.

It's not that Palin being a poster for Republican hypocrisy is in anyway opaque, and especially with respect to women's health. Gawd, she practically threw open her front door and screamed, come get me, didn't she?

/oops

[Fumesucker]

39. It was Sarah Palin who violate her own daughter's privacy..

Why are we supposed to care more for her daughter than she does?

[FedUpWithIt All]

46. Isn't that more reason to care? The girl has a mother that would throw her to the wolves.

Are we that heartless that this fact makes her an even bigger target? Shouldn't the fact that her own mother does not feel the need to protect her elicit a little sympathy? I thought we were the compassionate ones. Not the ones who attack emotional orphans.

[Fumesucker]

63. Her daughter is not the only one she will throw to the wolves..

If she will do this to her own daughter just think what the rest of have in store for us.

I'm in favor of anything that will keep this woman from ever having the remotest chance of sitting in the White House.

[FedUpWithIt All]

65. The people who might have "switched" will not be doing so with all this lovely talk going on

i am having a tough time swallowing it all.

By anything i assume you mean character assassination of a teen aged girl simply because she had the misfortune to be born to Palin? I cannot speak for anyone else here but i will not become what i despise to fight what i despise. Hell, if we have no issue lowering ourselves to their tactics (harming innocents) we are deluding ourselves that their is a "good" and a "bad" in all this. It is nothing more than a disgusting "mine" and "yours".

I am glad Obama is above all this. I don't think i could morally vote for him if he participated in the tactics seen on this board lately anymore than i could vote for bush or McCain.

Really repulsive.

[Fumesucker]

68. I don't have any probem at all with the daughter, I feel extremely sorry for her.

I also feel sorry for the tens of thousands of dead Iraqi children that war cheerleaders like Sarah Palin have killed.

DU feels like a big place, but seriously, there aren't that many people reading this that might "switch" and vote Dem in the Fall. The only people reading here are partisans on either side who have long since made up their minds who they are going to vote for.

"Low Information Voters" don't read political blogs or they wouldn't be low information in the first place.

[FedUpWithIt All]

69. The sources of news that are do have access to are speaking about what is happening here.

You underestimate word of mouth and the ol' grapevine.

[Fumesucker]

75. My wife talks to hundreds of people a week..

I'm not really capable of talking politics without becoming agitated sometimes so I mostly keep my mouth shut, but my wife is very good with people.

The BS she comes back and tells me is amazing, utter, complete and total fabrications.

The stories are going to get around anyway, the right has no regard for the truth.

[misanthrope]

87. Then would she shoot her daughter from the air as well?**nm

**

[pampango]

54. Yes. I have no problem caring for children more than some parents care for their own. n/t

[Fumesucker]

64. I see your point and I agree with you in normal circumstances..

These are far from normal circumstances.

At this juncture no weapon should be off the table in the effort to make sure this creature never has the most remote chance of ever sitting in the White House.

[Ganja Ninja]

13. 18 is the legal age of consent.

Obama's mom was an adult.
Democrats aren't the ones going around posing as the self appointed guardians of morality.

[disgruntled98]

57. Age of consent is 16 in Alaska.

Look it up.

[Ganja Ninja]

59. I'll take your word for it. n/t

[JuniperLea]

16. Stop giving space then!

Sheesh!

I'm hiding all these threads... starting with THIS ONE!

[SidneyCarton]

17. We seem to have the same purpose in different forums.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6881467

[LiberalEsto]

18. I doubt most of us are condemning the daughter

I haven't seen any comments making fun of the girl, and I hope there aren't any.

What's got us so het up is the unabashed hypocrisy of Palin and her fundie pals. They condemn sex education and promote abstinence. They vote to block funding for sex education. They want to legislate our daughters' lives and take away their choices, including access to birth control.

[bunkerbuster1]

20. I'm not sure what to leave alone.

I'll hammer McCain on his rash decision 'til his candidacy is dead and buried.

As for Caribou Barbie, her daughter's pregnancy is a sideshow; relevant only in how she might view abstinence-only sex ed, really.

So I might agree with the gist of your post, but I'm not really sure.

[ExPatLeftist]

22. What gives you the right...?

...to tell everyone waht to do? Why should anyone do what you command any more than you should follow their lead in spreading this BS?

I agree that this is a shitty story and that it should be a non-issue in an election, but telling people what to do is IMO arrogant as hell. If I do not like something like this I do not take part and I state my opinion, but I would never try to tell an entire group of individuals with differing (yet equally valid) opinions how to act.

You control you, no one else.

PS If you are going to try to convince, I would suggest more than "knock it off" may be a start, some thing of any substance- an argument in any form. Sorry, but this is a patently lame OP.

[SidneyCarton]

26. I believe it's called the 1st Amendment.

Which also grants you the right to tell him to screw off.

Democracy is wonderful isn't it?

[ExPatLeftist]

29. Excuse me...

But in what way did I try to infringe on his first amendment rights? I honestly do not understand the equation of my statement of opinion to me attempting to not allow the OP to do the same. Have never understood that argument on chat boards.

[SidneyCarton]

37. You asked what gave him the right. I answered.

I did not mean to say that you meant to limit his rights to free speech. I merely meant to point out that part of free speech is to gripe about what everyone else is saying, though part and parcel of doing so is accepting that such actions tend to cause a large amount of feces to get flung at you. This particular poster seemed to have a thin hide, he couldn't take it.

In the end it was merely a smart ass comment, take it as you will.

[ExPatLeftist]

41. Yeah, griping is one thing

Commanding others to follow one's own personal convictions is another.

I do not take commands well... ;)

[POAS]

45. What are you one of them damned Democrats?

[POAS]

44. You didn't expat

Here is the way this argument goes.

Bob: shut up about xyz, it is bad to do that.

Ann: I'll talk about anything I like don't try to shut me up.

Bob: Why are you trying to censor my right to free speech?

[SidneyCarton]

48. Before you cast stones, read my response.

I did not see Expat's answer as censorship, I merely (smart ass that I am) answered his question of what gives the OP the right to demand people do what he wants. I said that the OP had every right to demand, and any responder had just as much right to tell the OP to cram it. Such is the nature of free speech, just because you can say it, doesn't mean anyone has to listen, or for that matter agree.

[POAS]

51. I wasn't being personal at your post..

I've just been told to shut up so many times this weekend that I'm getting to the end of my fuse!

[SidneyCarton]

62. Understandible. My apologies.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

43. ...

:rofl: irony

[ExPatLeftist]

90. What irony?

Or can you honestly not see the difference between a COMMAND ("Everyone STOP") and the statement of an opinion and mentioning what one self would do?

Show me where I commanded anyone to do anything, and your point is valid. Otherwise, your "point" is the result of oversimplification.

[Silent3]

30. Can you imagine if the situation were reversed?

If Obama had a 17 year-old daughter who was discovered to be pregnant?

If Chelsea Clinton had gotten pregnant while Bill was President?

Somehow, someway, I don't get the feeling that a decision to keep the baby and marry the father would have turned any Democratic family into a prime example of good Christian values, as the wingnuts are desperately trying to spin the Palin situation. We'd be hearing Rush bloviating and Coulter screeching, "How can you expect these men to run the country when they can't even keep their own children from going out of control?", "Here's the kind of disastrous result you can expect from 'liberal values'!", etc., etc.

Merely pointing out the hypocrisy demonstrated by, and irony of, the Palin pregnancy situation pretty clean fighting compared to crap we routinely take dished out by Republicans.

We shouldn't sink to Rovian levels of mudslinging and outright lying and character assassination, but I sure as don't want to see Democrats engage in unilateral rhetorical disarmament, becoming toothless in an effort to achieve some ridiculous level of supposedly saintly purity.

[LSK]

33. WHICH PARTY RUNS ON MORAL AND FAMILY VALUES???

I feel sorry that you are completely missing the issue.

[MoeHayNow]

52. Very, very true! n/t

[Sheets of Easter]

36. Was Obama's mom in a position to potentially decide what options teen girls have regarding sex?

Read the issues regarding her stance on sex ed and teen sexuality. She is a hypocrite.

[mainegreen]

47. Obamas grandmother didn't want to be VP on the abstinence ticket, so I don't see the relevance.

[Wednesdays]

60. I, for one, am thankful his mom wasn't a practitioner

:)

[Wednesdays]

49. Didn't Palin trot her daugther out yesterday

(in a press conference, no less!), and then she expects no one to talk about it? (Or, if her daughter wasn't actually present, same thing applies--her pregnancy was announced to all mankind.)

And THAT'S what infuriates me: it isn't the pregnancy, it's that a mother sacrificed her daughter's reputation--not just to her community, but to the whole fucking world--to rescue her political ambitions.

This whole shitstorm was orchestrated by Palin herself, do you not see that?

[POAS]

53. I don't think this kind of talk is allowed

It resembles reason, we can't have that now can we?

:sarcasm:

Added the tag cuz I don't think most people can tell anymore!

I've said the same thing over and over and the only reply "stop picking on the kids, Obama decrees it!"

Again: :sarcasm:

[Wednesdays]

56. The kid has never "been picked on"

Never. Of the hundreds of posts I've read about the matter, not a single one said "Bristol's a slut", or the like. That would be picking on the daughter. In fact, nothing has been said about Bristol personally, one way or other.

The furor (correctly) centers on how MOM Palin uses her daughter for political expediency, and how her attitude towards something that happens towards a family member is totally opposite her public policy.

[POAS]

61. which is exactly my point!

The post police don't see it that way however!

[Virginia Dare]

93. Thank you. Nobody here created the situation..

if you don't want your daughter to become a victim then don't put her in a position to be attacked. There were much better ways this could have been handled. I think she lied. I don't know if she lied to the McCain campaign or her family or both, but she let her blind ambition and arrogance come before her family.

[MoeHayNow]

50. No reason to leave it alone.

Anything that helps throw a wrench in the Repug's plan is A-OK.
Whatever the screw up...it's a good thing.
This just happened to be a "moral, family value, non-reproductive rights" bomb.
Shoots holes in everything they stand for and I'm all for that.

[disgruntled98]

55. I just love the "children are a blessing from god" crap

And here I thought fucking was involved.

[Wednesdays]

58. It's a little of both, IMHO

;)

[TexasObserver]

66. Why are you always posting some GOP talking point?

You do know this is the DEMOCRATIC underground, not the Republican Underground, right?

[FedUpWithIt All]

70. Obama said leave it alone. n/t

[TexasObserver]

73. And I don't care.

Of course the campaign takes the high road.

Apparently, this is your first election, and you think that politics is having tea and crumpets.

If you don't have the stomach for this, please have the decency to stay out of the way for those of us who do. You should worry about what YOU are doing, and keep your unsolicited advice to yourself. Take that nanny attitude and move along.

[FedUpWithIt All]

74. You said that the OP was posting REPUBLICAN talking points.

Last i checked Obama was not a Republican. Just clarifying for you.

[TexasObserver]

77. Yes, it's a Republican talking point.

You're a political neophyte. I get it.

Now take your hand wringing act and move along.

[FedUpWithIt All]

83. Have a nice day then. n/t

[Dr. Strange]

91. Obama is a concern troll.

Apparently.

[Virginia Dare]

94. Obama is posting on DU?

what's his handle?

[Dr. Strange]

95. Chuggo.

But don't tell anyone.

[fascisthunter]

67. ahhh.... but this is very different or are you trying to spin it as the same thing

nice...

[EFerrari]

71. Apparently it's always open season on objectifying women

for a "good" reason. I wish we could find a different handle.

[fascisthunter]

72. this has nothing to do with sex

not for me, nor does my dislike of Israeli's government have anything to do with religion.

[EFerrari]

76. It sure is if you're Bristol Palin. n/t

[fascisthunter]

80. hey... some will spin it that way

that will be their choice.

[EFerrari]

81. It's not spin. She's not a metaphor. n/t

[fascisthunter]

89. so now her being a "she" disqualifies her from any criticism?

this is exactly what the GOP is counting on.... I disagree with you on this issue. Sorry...

[Justice]

78. that argument means McCain's adultery should be treated the same as Clinton's

in fact more so, as McCain is responsible for his adultery as an adult and poor Sarah Palin is still a minor.

[Bluebear]

79. Ah, a hit and run.

[EFerrari]

82. Mike was here for five years. n/t

[qwertyMike]

84. This is fuckin' Sick

Goodbye.

[Fla Dem]

92. This has never been about the daughter...it's all been about

the mother and father.