People who are staying on the islands facing Ike:

[JanMichael]

We live in a state with barrier islands, and I have been reading stories such as this my entire life:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080912/us_nm/storm_ike_holdouts_dc

"This is our home. Why run and come back to nothing?" said Harris, sitting at a table with other regulars in the bar.

Waitress Nanette Crouch said she was put off by the huge traffic jams she faced fleeing the coastal strip ahead of the last hurricane, Rita, which barged ashore in Texas three years ago.

"I've been praying a lot, I'm scared, but I'm never going in that traffic again, not after Rita, it was 17 hours of hell," she said, as she stood on the deck of the bar, with her mother Nancy."


Every time I read about these holdouts, I always wonder if I am reading some of their last words, during their last day--and how scary it must be to face that type of storm.

[shadowknows69]

1. The arrogance of the human spirit get a lot of us killed

Or love of our material things.

[Lorien]

25. That's one thing I don't understand

the last time several hurricanes headed my way I packed up my pets and the valuables that would fit in my car and drove for three days to Ohio. If there are things that you care about-pets, photo albums, your portfolio of artwork-then get them all out of harms way! People have this bizarre notion that they can "protect" their stuff if mother nature comes at them. THAT'S some crazy arrogance for you!

Parents of a friend of mine live in Beaumont, TX just about 14 miles from Port Arthur. They don't want to leave because it's just "too much trouble" to pack up and drive anywhere. Hw much "trouble" will it be for them if they have to wait for EMTs to rescue them? I just don't understand their reasoning at all, and I know that my friend is worried sick for them!

[shadowknows69]

26. My prayers for your friend's safety

It's never too much trouble to survive.

[Labors of Hercules]

38. It's a cultural issue...

Some people really do value holding onto their "lives" more than their life. Know what I mean?

[shadowknows69]

40. I get that. We make our "lives" such an anchor of our reality

We can't imagine things any other way. As a species our self deluding abilities are formidable.

[Lorien]

43. Indeed. It's why people commit suicide when they lose their homes

one of my former coworkers did just that a month ago; killed himself after losing his job, being unemployed for three years and losing nearly all of his possessions-including his home-in the process. In America, you are what you have and what you've achieved. If you lose everything society views you as worthless, so is it any wonder that people chose to be destroyed along with their homes?

[Ichingcarpenter]

2. I don't think people understand what a 20 foot storm surge means

with 130 mph winds, when their house is 30 feet tall.

[firedupdem]

4. Based on News Reports staying there is basically suicide n/t

[Virginia Dare]

8. You would think they would have had some collective memory..

of what happened in Brownsville. At least seen pictures of it?...:shrug:

[Ichingcarpenter]

14. Galveston was destroyed by a 15 foot storm surge and thousands died.

Just wait until a 2000 ton oil platform washes up on their deck.

[faithfulcitizen]

3. It is disgusting that people want to leave, but are scared of the traffic. I hope Rita's legacy

isn't even more deaths this time around.

[SammyWinstonJack]

5. I lived on Galveston Island, Jamaica Beach area. I wouldn't want to ride out a hurricane on that

stretch of coastline. :scared:

[Eurobabe]

6. I lived through Alicia, 30 miles inland

why ANYONE would want to ride out a CAT3 on a barrier island... :shrug:

[SheilaT]

7. On the other hand, anyone who drinks

Bud Light . . . .
Just a little gentle irony here.

The underlying issue, in my opinion, is that there's often a sense of The Boy Who Cried Wolf with storm warnings and evacuation orders. Sometimes storms weaken considerably as they make landfall. Sometimes they swerve enough that an area expected to be hard-hit isn't so hard hit. And major evacuations can result in many hours of traffic nightmares, especially when handled less than perfectly -- and no evacuation will be perfectly handled.

Meanwhile, the population continues to grow, especially in "desirable" areas such as those near coastal waters. I put "desirable" in quotes only because it's very long been understood that living close to an ocean does involve real risk. Heck, last fall I drove the length of the Pacific Coast Highway in Oregon, and all along it were warnings about possible tsunamis. That coast is beautiful, and I wouldn't mind living there. Maybe someday some terrible tsunami will wipe out most of the Oregon coast and kill thousands of people. We can't relocate the entire population of this country to the interior. A lot more people would then die or lose everything to tornadoes, just to name one other natural and deadly phenomenon.

Just my two cents.

[Virginia Dare]

9. Some day, possibly very soon, we WILL have to relocate our..

entire population inland. People had better get used to it.

[Lancer]

10. "Certain death"

The National Weather Service very rarely uses language like this:

ALL NEIGHBORHOODS...AND POSSIBLY ENTIRE COASTAL COMMUNITIES...
WILL BE INUNDATED DURING THE PERIOD OF PEAK STORM TIDE. PERSONS
NOT HEEDING EVACUATION ORDERS IN SINGLE FAMILY ONE OR TWO STORY
HOMES MAY FACE CERTAIN DEATH. MANY RESIDENCES OF AVERAGE
CONSTRUCTION DIRECTLY ON THE COAST WILL BE DESTROYED. WIDESPREAD
AND DEVASTATING PERSONAL PROPERTY DAMAGE IS LIKELY ELSEWHERE.
VEHICLES LEFT BEHIND WILL LIKELY BE SWEPT AWAY. NUMEROUS ROADS
WILL BE SWAMPED...SOME MAY BE WASHED AWAY BY THE WATER. ENTIRE
FLOOD PRONE COASTAL COMMUNITIES WILL BE CUTOFF.

From the NWS Advisory 4 PM CDT 09/11/08

[LeftinOH]

11. The anniversary of the Galveston Hurricane of 1900 was just a few days ago-

reading accounts of that horror (about 6,000 dead; the worst natural disaster in US history) ought to be enough to scare anyone into fleeing.

[Beausoir]

52. There is a very good book about that 1900 Galveston hurricane...

Isaac's Storm is the title.

A great read.

[KharmaTrain]

12. Freedom To Be Stupid

I recall the late Harry Truman (not the 33rd President)...the old man who refused to move from his Spirit Lake home despite the warnings of a large eruption at Mt. St. Helens. The land was his life and if it was to be destroyed, so would he. I see a similar mindset of some when a hurricane approaches...they feel attached to the land or find one of many reason in thinking they can ride out the storm no matter how many times they are warned. But so be it in a "free" society...and for some they don't see the use in trying to rebuild not just their homes but their entire lives in the aftermath of such devestation.

In my recent trip to NOLA I met a friend who survived Katrina...he could have fled but stayed cause he felt this was his home and if it was to go down, so would he. He ended up being airlifted from the roof of a home in Lakeview and had just moved into a new home a few months before Gustav. When I emailed him about his plans, he said "same thing as last time...", even knowing what could happen, he was going to stay come hell and high water.

While I would hope that people get away from the coast (the storm surge sounds like it oould really wreck havoc), I can't see how you can force someone who doesn't want to leave and knows the consequences from going...and where to? I'd rather focus attention on those who want to get out and don't have cars or a means to do so.

[JanMichael]

13. And then others risk their lives to save them

water rescue is extremely dangerous.

[KharmaTrain]

18. Point Very Well Taken...

Not long ago I was reading about the 1900 Galveston hurricane...and what a horror that was. In that case, there were no Weather satellites or mass communications like we have today. All there was was one lone meteorologist who had a warning bell atop of this two story office...the storm came up with no warning and the town was all but washed away. This storm has many of the same characteristics of that one...large storm surge...and I hope the worst fears are unfounded...but I also see another NOLA type situation happening.

The fiasco of the evacuation during Rita is making people wary about leaving...massive traffic jams and no real direction as to where to go is just as scary as facing the dangers...pick your poison. Heading north just puts you in the storm's path...so where do you go? When I read about the traffic messes with Contra-flow out of NOLA with Gustav I kept thinking which fate would be worse...being washed away in your home or in your car. If I were in that situation, I know I'd get the hell out, but where?

[Virginia Dare]

22. That sounds like a similar situation to the hurricane that hit New England in the 30's

there was one meteorologist in Florida who suspected what was happening, but he couldn't convince his superiors so they weren't able to warn anybody. That storm surge killed many people as well in Connecticut and Rhode Island. Katherine Hepburn barely survived being swept away in her home. I shudder to think what would happen if a similar storm hit today what with the massive population in that area now. Can you imagine evacuating a good chunk of the east coast?

[bushmeister0]

46. My grandparents went through that storm in East Hartford.

They never talked about it.

As kids we got a great new dyke to play on, though.

[snappyturtle]

36. A couple days ago there was a story from a San Antonio teevee station

that the authorities are better prepared this time for people to get out. Had fuel trucks dispersed along the route and had cleaned up any debris in the shoulder 'lanes' to forestall flat tires etc. But my husband's family, three sisters and their families and his mother, all evacuated and got into horrible jams. Finally, they pulled off the interstate to less traveled roads. I've heard that many have arrived in San Antonio approx. 270 miles west of the center of Houston but my mother-in-law and sisters-in-law are not among them. They have instead opted to stay at the northernmost home of one of the sisters. Also, I heard that mandatory evacuation applied only to specific zip codes. I think that the government(s) involved have figured that they can't get everyone out like they tried to do during Rita.

Edit: Opps! MEANT THIS AS A REPLY TO #3!

[Virginia Dare]

15. Some of them probably think all they need is "prayer"...

it's truly unfortunate when you have the ability to save yourself and you won't.

[KharmaTrain]

20. Dare I Say...So Be It?

I honestly would be hard-pressed if I were faced with this situation...especially if I were to see massive traffic jams on the major escape routes (my way would be to find back roads), but then where to go? I would imagine with that large of an evacuation there won't be a hotel or motel room available for hundreds of miles. They say to get out, but where? Heading north put you in the storm's path...and which is worse? Getting washed out of your house or being stranded in your car? I'm just hoping the damage is limited and those who can do get out. If someone knowing the dangers till sticks around then it's their choice...I'm more concerned with the elderly and poor who were all but abandonded in NOLA and wanted to get away but had no means to do so.

[Virginia Dare]

21. Agreed, I guess all we can do at this point...

is hope for the best for everybody in it's path.

[malaise]

23. People who don't live in hurricane zones will never understand

Right now in Texas there are sick people removed from nursing homes stranded in buses.

I know people who will not leave their homes and don't care if they die. Some people have absolutely no means to start over and even if they do, the psychological damage wrought by a serious hurricane is as bad as the worst PTSD.

As long as they're not endangering others, I think consenting adults have the right to make up their own minds.

[KharmaTrain]

28. But Hurricanes Seem Like So Much "Fun"

:sarcasm:

In '92 when Andrew was tearing apart Southern Florida...the first real bad storm to hit the US in nearly a generation (since Camille) I had a friend who was obsessed with the coverage...and kept saying how neat it would be to be like those "intrepid" reporters and to ride the thing out. Fast forward to 2004 and 05...he had moved to Ft. Lauderdale and his home got hammered several times in those storms...boy did his tune change. He moved back to Chicago and, while he hates shoveling snow, he said he's glad he's gone from having to endure any more storms. Yep, PTSD is a great term...and I'm sure you would know. I saw it on the faces of many who I met in NOLA.

Here's hoping those who need to get out are able to do so. I fear for anther fiasco like what happened on the road between Houston and DFW with Rita where several cars stranded in traffic caught fire..including one that was transporting elderly.

Looks like we'll get the residuals of Ike here by Sunday...but nowhere near the rain or winds.

:hi:

[malaise]

30. I remember that horrible Rita fire

of course we can be sure that only Rethugs and their friends have those contracts for the buses so anything gives.

I have lots of fears about this one - I read this morning that the immigration wall is a disaster waiting to add to the disaster of Ike.
Worry about gas prices - worry big time. Fill up if you can. The disaster capitalists are out to get rich. :hi:

[KharmaTrain]

31. Damn Right I'm Gonna Fill 'er Up

There was a report of gas prices spiking to $4.50 a gallon or higher if Ike takes out not only the rigs, but makes a mess of all the refineries along the Houston canal. But isn't it something that while the price of a barrel has fallen back to $100 (oh happy day), the prices here still hover around $4 a gallon. So much for "supply and demand"...but those Exxon stocks sure look good these days.

Again...my question is where do these people go? Just drive and something will turn up? And at $4 or more a gallon? There seems to be little thought at to where to go...and a lot of price gouging going on.

I'm with you...this storm is gonna be a big test of resources and I have such little confidence in FEMA other than to do press conferences.

[malaise]

39. CNN showed a gas station in South Carolina

selling regular at 5.35. Fill 'er up!! :D

Yes it's a serious question - where do people with limited resources go and for how long?

[KharmaTrain]

42. Here's A Great Link For Storm Coverage

Local TV stations...but it sucks up a lot of bandwidth:

http://www.livenewscameras.com/map.html

[malaise]

45. Thanks

:hi:

[bushmeister0]

47. I went through Andrew, scariest thing I ever experienced.

The aftermath was worse. My cousin had no water or electricity for four weeks. A very close friend in the Redlands walked out of his bathroom in the morning to find it was the only thing left of his house still standing.

Wilma, a few years back, totally destroyed my parent's mobile home. Naturally, that was the only time they decided not to evacuate. My dad spent all night half away outside trying to keep the front door from blowing off. They lived in the wreck for almost six months trying to get their insurance company to pay up. It finally took the introvention of the state insurance commissioner and Mark Foley, of all people, to get them a new home.

When hurricane comes, you run.

[Wednesdays]

35. It's not "stupidity", it's the "ownership" mindset

So many people wrap their self-worth around their possessions (including land), they feel that once they're gone there's nothing to live for.

[merh]

16. From a Katrina Survivor that knows what it is like to deal with the

storm surge - GET OUT NOW - if you don't get out, wear your lifevest, have a flashlight attached and maybe tie yourself off to some high point and hold on.

Here on the MS Gulf Coast we have been seeing higher seas since yesterday morning and Ike is 300 miles away - he is dangerous and it is his surge that has to be tremendous given the waters we have here.

Don't play around with this, get out or at least find floatation devices and be willing to ride the surge.

Houses can be rebuilt - if you are still living to rebuild them.

prayers and good wishes -

[Love Bug]

17. Remember Harry Truman on Mt. Saint Helens?

He didn't want to leave his home, either, and now he, and his home, are buried under the ash. It was his choice and he knew what would happen:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/mountsthelens/hary11.shtml

[shadowknows69]

33. At 83 I can't blame Harry

If i'd lived to that age I think it would be kind of fitting for mother nature herself to be the one to take me out. Beats a hospital bed, but people with lives and family that could rebuild owe it to themselves to flee disaster. Mom Nature takes no prisioners.

[SoCalDem]

19. Shame on city "planners" and zoning commissions that

allow/encourage massive building so close to coastlines.. coastlines that have been battered by storms as long as the coasts have been there..

people have proven over and over that they "forget", and
hope" they get lucky..or that the storms change location at the last minute and they will be spared..

People are also overly attached to their "stuff", and most people have all or most of their "wealth" tied into their homes and what's in them, so I can see the reluctance of a 40-something , to just walk away and hope it's still there when you return..

Global warming aside, storm frequencies/strengths seem to go in cycles, and once we enter into a "calm" period, people build up where they should not, and many live to regret it..and some don't even live:(


In an odd way, insurance companies may "cure" us of our obsession with living on the sea (or in our case out there..the sea and the mountain fire-canyons).. Most people need to finance their homes & businesses, so once the insurance companies flat-out refuse to insure anyone within say..5-10 miles of the coastline, we might finally see storms eventually scour those structures away, and once again have a coastline with views and access for all people..not just the richie-rich who plop a McMansion on every piece of sand they can find....and nature might once again rebuild the buffer-zones necessary to protect everyone else from storm surges..

[dixiegrrrrl]

32. City planners not much help in Mobile, Al.

I just read about a 200 unit apt. complex, located on the beach in Mobile, which was destroyed by Katrina.
It now has been re-built as condos, , renamed, and re-sold for much more money. Article was quoting the builders as pleased with their sold out "investment".
One of many many many condos built and sold in the past 3 years on the sands of the Gulf.

Many Darwin award contenders are living 5 feet above sea level in the Gulf.

[JanMichael]

34. Most planners such as myself oppose building in disaster areas.

We make recommendations to avoid it however developers, I.e. the MONEY, get the permits approved. The APA makes efforts to dissuade these decisions but the greedy types ignore them.

So shame on the MONEY not most planners.

[SoCalDem]

41. Yes.. it's the money and the sell-outs who TAKE the money

W see it all the time here..people building big ole houses in fire-canyons, and then boohooing on tv saying "we've been burned out 4 times..and we're gonna rebuild.. we love it here"..:grr:

I'd bet that if the insurance said.."you assume ALL risk...no insurance for you!" they would find another place to build..

It breaks my heart every year to see all those firefighters trying to drive big trucks up logging roads, trying to save those houses...houses that never should have been built there:grr:

[Fla Dem]

24. Corpus Christi webcam...looks

looks Ok now....but deserted.

http://www.earthcam.com/usa/texas/corpuschristi/

[csziggy]

27. Weather Channel just showed the roads and they are almost empty

The smart people left early and the rest are staying, I guess. But the announcements are trying to get the rest to leave. This storm will be deadly. Those may be some of the last word from those people. :cry:

The 1900 Galveston Hurricane killed somewhere between 6,000 and 12,000 people - they could not really estimate the death toll. This one may kill more if that many people stayed. Right now, waves are breaking over the seventeen foot seawall and the surge is not there yet.

[Mari3333]

29. Galveston is already flooding and the surge hasnt even hit: :link:

breaking videos here

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/feature?section=news/local&id=6102015

and people are standing around taking pictures. the newscasters are in shock. houses are already being submerged and the surge hasnt even hit. in fact, its low tide right now. this is going to be like katrina.

[DemoTex]

37. Anyone contemplating riding out a hurricane on a barrier island should read "Isaac's Storm."

Isaac's Storm
A Man, a Time, and the
Deadliest Hurricane in History
by Erik Larson



Here is the track of the 1900 hurricane that killed between 6000 and 12,000 people in the Galveston Island area. Look familiar?

[SheilaT]

50. Amazing and wonderful book.

Everything Eric Larson writes is good.

I had the good fortune to see him and hear his talk about the book and that hurricane on exactly the 100th anniversary of it.

One of the strongest points (I think)that Larson makes is that people in Galveston truly believed that a hurricane could never actually land there. That conceit, coupled of course with very limited weather forecasting was a recipe for disaster. What's also phenomenally good in the book, for those of you who haven't read it yet) are the descriptions of weather events and the development of the National Weather Service.

Another very good book about a terrible weather event is The Children's Blizzard by David Laskin about a blizzard on January 12, 1888 in the upper midwest, which killed hundreds of people, many of them children trapped in their tiny one-room school houses or lost when trying to make it home in the teeth of the blizzard. That book also talks about the state of the National Weather Service in the 1880's and is also fascinating.

[MadHound]

44. I rode out a hurricane in Pensacola back when I was a kid

It was a Cat 1, and I rode it out with my family and aunt and uncle in their special built hurricane house(thick concrete walls, steel shutters, built really, really strong). I was scared then, and I couldn't imagine riding out a bigger storm in a flimsier house. It's just insane to try and ride this one out. Sadly, I think lots of people are going to die in this one, simply because they're too stubborn to get the hell out of Dodge.

[TexasLady]

48. I found this post at weather underground..

427. weatherwart 5:29 PM GMT on September 12, 2008
One man who was staying said he'd be okay. "I have a loaded gun," he stated.


:crazy:

[SheilaT]

51. Shoot that hurricane down!

Yep, that's gonna work.

[TornadoTN]

49. Reports: People calling begging to be rescued because they failed to heed evacuation orders

They are saying that the waters are already reaching incredibly high levels. People who decided to stay are already stuck, waters are rising, and calls are coming in for rescue already.

Folks, this thing is going to be a major disaster.

http://www.khou.com/video/?nvid=178826&live=yes&noad=yes

That's the link I'm listening to.