Question..Are Hunters offended by aerial hunting?

[Stuart G]

The few hunters I know often use bow and arrow to shoot game. Like the Native Americans used to do.. I wonder if hunters, and there must be some here, are offended by the use of planes to shoot animals in winter when they cannot even hide? Please respond..thanks.

[Captain Hilts]

1. Real hunters are. Just as they are by folks who 'hunt' with assault weapons or lights. nt

[Stuart G]

3. Explain, What kind of sport is there using an assualt weapon?

[Captain Hilts]

7. There isn't!! That's why real hunters hate folks that use them. nt

[Lyric]

9. The typical defense is that assault rifles use pretty much the same rounds

as a lot of deer rifles, and can kill a deer as easily.

But yeah, I agree. If you're taking an AK hunting, you're doing it because you think it looks cool, and/or you just want an excuse to "play" with it. An AK-47 might have the same caliber rounds as a deer rifle, but it isn't a deer rifle. I have spent my entire life around serious hunters--people who owned all sorts of firearms--and I have never, ever seen one take an assault rifle out to hunt. However, I don't know a lot about hunting west of the Mississippi, so I'm willing to consider that maybe an assault rifle is useful and appropriate if you're hunting in grizzly territory or something.

[backwoodsbob]

32. just to clear something up

an *assault* rifle doesn't use the same caliber as a standard deer rifle.

I'd like to see the assault rifle that shoots 30.06 which is the caliber I use when deer hunting.

That said I think Ariel shooting*it isn't hunting* is disgusting

[Lyric]

38. The rifle I was thinking of was actually

a .30-30, like my Dad's old Winchester. It used rounds that were very similar to the 7.62x39 rounds that an AK-47 uses. My stepfather also had a rifle that used rounds that were ballistically similar, but it was one of those really old, bolt-action Soviet rifles from the WWII era, and those rounds were a bit longer than the ones that AK's use. Come to think of it, I think the Winchester's rounds were longer, too. I don't know a lot about the details, unfortunately; the times I went hunting with Dad, I always used his .410 shotgun--I could handle the kick of that one pretty easily. I never would have dared to try and shoot his old 12 gauge--he called that thing "The Cannon" for a reason, lol.

[backwoodsbob]

71. in Michigan

a .30-30 would be illegal to deer hunt...too small.

Same here in Va.

[Lyric]

76. I thought you were in West Virginia?

That's where I am, and it's legal here. From the WV DNR's website:

Legal firearms for hunting deer during the buck season shall include:

a rifle using centerfire ammunition.
a rifle using .25 caliber or larger rimfire ammunition.
a muzzleloading rifle, with or without scope, and muzzleloading pistol of .38 caliber or larger.
a handgun using a straight-walled case of .357 magnum cartridge or larger or a bottle-necked case of .24 caliber or larger (A Class A-1 handgun stamp is required.)
a shotgun loaded with solid ball ammunition.

I'm pretty sure that .30-30's use centerfire rounds, so they're fine here.

[Turbineguy]

11. Assault weapon

it kinda takes all the sport out of war.

[michreject]

19. What kind of hunters use lights?

They don't and I do believe that you know that.

[XemaSab]

26. Poachers

n/t

[michreject]

28. Those aren't hunters

Those are poachers. It's illegal and is spelled out real clear in the law.

[XemaSab]

73. Exactly

n/t

[NickB79]

45. Predator hunters use lights

It's legal to hunt coyote and fox in many states at night with gun-mounted lights.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

79. What is an assault weapon?

[ixion]

2. true sportsmen and hunters should be

there's nothing at all sporting or hunting related about shooting an animal from an airplane.

[Stuart G]

8. I am generally against all hunting.......but..

In many states, the deer population is exploding because there are few if any natural predators for deer. So maybe legal, lawful hunting will help control that population which can cause many problems. But, having said that, I cannot understand any "sport" in kinds of hunting described here. Another thing to make me sick about Sara Palin..

[Lyric]

4. Yes.

My whole family hunts, and I have hunted, although not in the past few years. My Dad would spit at somebody hunting from the air. That's like shooting a caged bear. The advantage to you is so enormous that any smidgen of "sport" is gone. It isn't hunting, then. It's just killing, period. Dad and I agree on this one for sure.

For the record, though, my Dad also believed that handguns were unmanly and that people who kill a deer, cut off the head, and leave the meat to rot should go to prison. Take his opinions as you will.

[madinmaryland]

68. "That's like shooting a caged bear." Isn't that typical of Rethuglicans??

Think Dick Cheney, shooting at caged pheasants.

[blue neen]

5. All of the hunters I know here in western PA, which includes every man in my family,

DO NOT approve of aerial hunting.

[tannybogus]

6. I know a lot of hunters who don't like that kind of thing.

I talked to my brother to find out. However, I know there are shitheads

who would love it. These are the same people who "hunt" deer by shining lights

in their eyes to freeze them so they are easier to shoot.

[LostinVA]

10. The hunters I know think it's as appalling as the non-hunters I know (like me)

Because, it's not hunting, it's murder, just like the Harp seal massacre every year. Responsible, "real" hunters hunt: they don't approve of canned hunts or killing animals just to get a literal or figurative hard-on from it. Look at the outcry when the wild horses of teh Outer Banks were going to be killed. People I know in NC who are MAJOR Jesse Helms-loving Freepers freaked out about it.

Most people I know, regardless of political ideals or background, are animal people. Most people like or love dogs. Wolfs are dogs. Even many, many people in Alaska are violently against the wolf kills.

I personally loathe all hunting, but I can see the difference between my cousin using a week of his vacation for deer bowhunting and some sociopath gunning down wolves from a chopper, mortally wounding many of them and leaving them to die a slow, horrible death. It is SICK. I really believe that only someone with sociopathic tendencies can do something like this.

[warrior1]

12. Why don't they just capture

the wolfs and move them to the over populate deer country and let nature take it's course. No hunting would be necessary.

[LostinVA]

13. There is nothing necessary about the wolf hunting

The only reason is to murder.

[Stuart G]

36. Now this of course would make lots of sence..so it isn't done. nt.

[NickB79]

49. Problem is, areas with a lot of deer usually have a lot of people

Deer populations are usually highest in the suburbs and edge habitats where there are a lot of people as well. I'd imagine the idea of releasing wolves anywhere within 20 miles of an elementary school or dairy farm wouldn't go over very well with the locals, to say the least.

Unfortunately, there actually aren't a lot of areas left in this country that can support a large wolf population away from substantial human contact (and controversy).

[marlakay]

70. At least deer hunters eat the meat

it makes me sick to my stomach to think of what they do to the poor wolves. I am not a hunter but i have had deer and other meats from hunters so i am not against what i consider "real" hunting.

The type Sarah does and Cheney makes me ill. Trapping animals not for food but for pleasure is sickening.

[DemoTex]

14. Running an animal with a Piper Super Cub until the creature drops ..

.. then landing and shooting the exhausted animal in the head? What hunter or sportsman could ever condone that? That's not hunting, that's CHENEY-SPORT.



Piper Super Cub tricked-out for hunting in Alaska. The oversized tires facilitate landing almost anywhere.

BTW: Why did Sarah Palin name one of her progeny Piper? Just wonderin'.

[tsuki]

15. Yes, and canned hunts also. nt

[DemoTex]

16. Canned hunts = quintessential Cheney-Sport

[rolleitreks]

17. I think the point of aerial wolf hunting is population control, not sport. n/t

[yewberry]

40. Unfortunately, in this case there's a twist.

The wolf kills are an attempt to artificially boost caribou numbers for hunters. Safari Club International spent a great deal of money (and Palin spent $400K of public money) helping defeat a measure that would have banned aerial slaughter except in emergencies.

So, it's not as simple as just predator control.

[misanthrope]

64. Funny, nature has always done a decent job...

...with "predator control" for a few millenia before we made the scene. If they did a decent amount of research into wolves, they would find that packs do a fair job of that themselves.

[cobalt1999]

18. First of all, that's NOT hunting, it's killing.

There is a difference.

Hunting, like fishing, is about the experience more than the kill. Many real hunters and fisherman don't really care if they get something or not. The shooting or catching isn't what draws them. There are guys I know who don't even bait lines or bother to shoot on some trips.

It's Aerial Killing not Hunting.

[Divernan]

47. Natural predators like wolves kill off the old, sick and weak of other species.

It's classic survival of the fittest. The very wealthy people who go on extremely expensive hunting trips to Alaska want the alpha male animal with the biggest rack of antlers, or the most magnificent grizzly they can get in their sights.

To blast away at them from an airplane or helicopter is the ultimate barbarism.

[alarimer]

20. I am not opposed to hunting in general but the wolf killing bothers me most.

Because it is only in the guise of saving more elk, etc for people to hunt. That's just wrong. wolves and other predators kill off the sick and weak. It actually helps populations. If the wolves kill too many, then they will die off and nature maintains a balance.

[soothsayer]

22. yup. yet palin doesn't see the irony in wanting drilling, which will further reduce caribou

and other animals she likes to kill.

[spanone]

21. that's not hunting....it's slaughter

[slampoet]

23. Yes. It is also against International Law.

[michreject]

29. What???????????

And here I was thinking that we made our laws.

[Divernan]

51. There is no codified body of "international law".

There are treaties to which countries can be voluntary signatories - like the convention on the Law of the Sea and the related agreements established by the United Nations. It is not binding on the US, unless the Senate votes approval of it. Another example is the Kyoto Treaty, which the US refuses to sign. However there would never be a treaty or convention addressing hunting regulations within a country's own boundaries.
Wikipedia has an article about Law of the Sea.
Law of the Sea Convention
We are pleased that the Senate Foreign Relations Committee voted out the Law of the Sea Convention. This is an important step forward in the Administration's efforts to join this treaty, which the President has urged the Senate to approve during this session of Congress. This Convention has the strong support of United States Federal Agencies, including the Departments of Defense, Homeland Security, Commerce, and the Interior.

This treaty was a victory for U.S. diplomacy -- the one chapter that President Reagan disliked was modified in 1994 to overcome all his objections. It would serve both our national security interests, as countless current and former U.S. military officials have stated, by assuring navigational rights of our vessels worldwide, as well as our economic and energy interests, as a wide array of U.S. industries have stated. The treaty would secure U.S. sovereign rights over extensive offshore natural resources, including substantial oil and gas resources in the Arctic. The extended continental shelf areas we stand to gain under the treaty are at least twice the size of California.

Joining the Convention is the only viable means of protecting and maximizing our ocean-related interests and the Senate should approve U.S. accession without delay.

2007/967

[slampoet]

72. The Migratory Bird act is just such an International Treaty that addresses hunting regulations

within many different countries.

[Divernan]

78. Point taken re migratory species - but that would not include wolves or bears.

Individual wolves or bears may wander over an international border, but they are not annually migrating. If that were the case, individual states, not to mention countries, would have a big problem issuing individual hunting licenses.

[aikoaiko]

24. I don't like it, but then again its not that much different from using a boat to catch big fish.

When a big fish or shark is on the line we use the boat to follow it and tire it out before bringing it in close and shooting it in the head before hauling it in the boat.

Its seems to me that for most people are against it because it involves wolves.

eta: or maybe its the excessive use of technology. I struggle with this because almost all hunters use technology to make hunting easier --- its just that airplane/helocopter seems so excessive. I would imagine that its not that easy to hit a small target from a moving airplane.

[chitty]

67. Seeing as how we are mammals,

I don't think we as a species can get warm and fuzzy over a shark or a marlin.

They are cold blooded fish, like the barracuda.

Try rounding up a dolphin or porpoise with a boat to kill them and see what kind of response you get.

[tuckessee]

25. Heck no, they get a hard on for it.

Some sanctimonious hunter types will say they aren't for it but they're generally just jealous. `

BTW, bow hunting is the most messy, cruel type of hunting. Kill rate is much better with firearms. Many hit with bows run off seriously injured to die slow, painful deaths.

[Ghost in the Machine]

27. That's the biggest line of bullshit I've ever read...

"Some sanctimonious hunter types will say they aren't for it but they're generally just jealous."

Idiot much?

:eyes:

[backwoodsbob]

30. yes

[Aviation Pro]

31. Short answer: yes....

...longer answer: fuck yes.

[Thothmes]

33. Depends on the purpose

If it is to reduce the population of an unwanted species , than killing them from a helicopter is probably the quickest was to accomplish that goal. And I see nothing wrong with it. On the otherhand, I do not think hunting an animal from a helicopter for "sport" should be allowed under any circumstance.

[Paladin]

34. Care To Define "Unwanted Species" For Us?

Extra points for honesty....

[scrinmaster]

41. Goats?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZrFIcWzSEo

[Thothmes]

55. Those definitions belong to the officials

at the various state and federal agricultural and wildlife administrative organizations.

[Paladin]

57. Really Courageous Response, There.... (n/t)

[Thothmes]

63. I said that I dont think sport hunting should be conducted from helicopters

If fish and wildlife management wants to use them to cull, thats fine with me. Whether its wolves, cattle, horses, rabbits etc. they are the ones that the tax payers pay to make those type of decisions in wildlife management. Has nothing to do with courage. I am not a agricultural or wildlife management expert, never claimed to be.

[ensho]

35. and the pilots of the planes are complicit

money first I guess

[liam_laddie]

37. Against Federal Law

I believe it's illegal to hunt from the air, except via government-approved culling. However, it seems to be "fair" to land the aircraft, get out and shoot the exhausted animal from the ground. Real fair "sport." Effing assholes!

[old mark]

39. Gee, no Stuart - hunters are all slavering fucking

apes bent on torturing and killing anthing that moves and then bathing in the blood.

Happy now, asshole?

mark

[seabeyond]

42. it has been suggested by a few that this is hunting, the ad would not be offensive

to hunters. the vast majority argued, even those of us that dont hunt, know hunters, and the hunters we know are bothered by this. they have a "code of honor" in hunting and this goes against it.

i think this poster is calling out the hunters to confirm that belief

i dont think he was saying this is what a hunter is, but more asking for the hunter to say, and make it clear to the few, that this type of killing is not hunting.

[backwoodsbob]

43. I ate the beating heart

of the last deer I killed.

Hope that helps

[Paladin]

58. Congratulations.

Your response helps validate the negative images many people have of hunters and hunting. Many of those negatives are in fact true---which is why I no longer hunt....

[uppityperson]

44. Hunters I know are.

[samuraiguppy]

46. I don't hunt, don't approve of gun

ownership.

But I have a half dozen friends who hunt (mostly deer, some wild turkeys that kind of stuff). All of them are democrats. In my informal poll only 1 even cared about aerial hunting of a predator species for population control--and the only reason he cared was because it was wolves (who reminded him of dogs--he once had a wolf hybrid dog himself). And this one person who didn't like it still thought it was kinder than poisoning them for population control (which is the alternative)

Don't know if this issue is our best line of attack with hunters.

On the other hand women seem to be quite repulsed by it (women generally are more grossed out by hunting anyway. So maybe it will bring some women back to us?

[proud patriot]

48. yes it's like a caged hunt

no challenge

[SalviaBlue]

50. My husband is a bow hunter. He hunts deer.

He is highly offended by this kind of hunting as well as other "canned" hunting ala Dick Cheney hunting fenced in animals.

[KelleyKramer]

52. Do they use machine guns?? ...

And no, I dont consider taping a stick of dynamite to a brick to be the sport of 'fishing' either.

[Undercurrent]

53. Yes. Very offensive.

I have an old fashioned approach to hunting. I have a .35 Remington pump with out a scope. It's vintage, but immaculate, and was my mother's hunting rifle.

[jberryhill]

54. Some species of caribou are endangered

It's not about "hunting".

Hence the bounty on forelegs.

[yewberry]

56. This isn't about protecting caribou.

The policy is an attempt to inflate ungulate populations for hunting.

The controversy over Palin's promotion of predator control goes beyond animal rights activists recoiling at the thought of picking off wolves from airplanes. A raft of scientists has argued that Palin has provided little evidence that the current program of systematically killing wolves, estimated at a population of 7,000 to 11,000, will result in more moose for hunters. State estimates of moose populations have come under scrutiny. Some wildlife biologists say predator control advocates don't even understand what wolves eat.

______________________________

Last year, 172 scientists signed a letter to Palin, expressing concern about the lack of science behind the state's wolf-killing operation. According to the scientists, state officials set population objectives for moose and caribou based on "unattainable, unsustainable historically high populations." As a result, the "inadequately designed predator control programs" threatened the long-term health of both the ungulate and wolf populations. The scientists concluded with a plea to Palin to consider the conservation of wolves and bears "on an equal basis with the goal of producing more ungulates for hunters."

http://www.salon.com/env/feature/2008/09/08/sarah_palin_wolves/

[jberryhill]

59. Now that's informative

My bet has been that Camp Palin would spin this as a warranted population control program.

Although by the time one is using the term "ungulate" for various hoofed animals, Joe Voter moves on.

[yewberry]

62. mea culpa

For Joe Voter:

[jberryhill]

77. Now you're talking

JMO, but the wolf hunting thing would pretty much get lost in a predator population control debate.

[misanthrope]

60. "Like the Native Americans used to do?"...

...You mean they make their weapons from scratch with their own skill and knowledge?

[XOKCowboy]

61. Shooting anything from a plane or helicopter is not HUNTING. Get that straight.

It's just shooting.

[LWolf]

65. If they aren't, they damned well should be. nt

[countryjake]

66. Traditional hunters? Yes!

I'm not one, but I do know lots of people (who do not hunt just for sport) that hunt to put food in their freezers, and every single one of them find Palin to be sick for advocating and pressing for such a thing.

They also don't like people who use motorized vehicles to hunt from, like Palin and her "Iron Man" dude.

[DailyGrind51]

69. Will PETA start using surface to air missles in Alaska?

[shrike]

74. My husband is a hunter who is deeply offended by aerial hunting

Though he doesn't do much hunting anymore: he went on a caribou hunt in Canada and was offended by the a-holes who showed up with semi-automatics.

Someone talked him into a wild boar hunt, and someone showed up with an AK-47 because "he didn't know what else to bring."

Kind of cured him of hunting and being around hunters. Although the deer population has gotten so ridiculously numerous in our area that culling has become necessary.

[jojog]

75. It is against Federal law

Except Alaska is using a loophole

<http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/477616584>