Did you know they didn't evacuate the jail in Galveston, TX for security reasons

[LynneSin]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/13/us/13ike.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&adxnnl=1&partner=rssyahoo&emc=rss&adxnnlx=1221311108-7u3H6BNkkGeJ2MAyHSLFDw

In Galveston, despite the order to leave, officials decided not to evacuate the 1,000 prisoners at the county jail for security reasons.

I realize these are prisoners and hell Texas just loves the death penalty but geez, they have been warning that staying in Galveston could be a death threat and with 12-20 feet surges are these people in a safe location to survive the storm??

[FSogol]

1. Not to defend Texas Officials, but prisons are some of the most

durable buildings around. They should be able to weather the storm.

[notadmblnd]

3. A county jail is not a prison

and it would be terrible to have someone dead because they got picked up for not paying a ticket or some other minor offense.

[KharmaTrain]

2. Maybe Cause It Was A Strong Building????

I've been following the storm at hurricanecity.com. While Galveston has taken on a lot of water...and that could cause problem, the buildings in town appear to have weathered the storm well. I heard a doctor at the hospital who said there were still 500 people inside and riding the thing out as emergency staff...patients had been evacuated and they were there to handle any cases after the storm passes.

Imagine the logistics that a high security move would require...especially on roads that were already croweded. And then where would you put 'em? Holiday Inn? Another overcrowded jail? My bets are the jail building was built to withstand the wind...re-inforced concrete tends to make a pretty good jail.

[cobalt1999]

4. Do you know if anyone died in the jail?

Or is this just a journalist going off half-cocked again.

Maybe the people, actually THERE, knew the elevation and strength of the building.

So, before I get my panties in a wad, I'd like to see what the outcome was.

[iamjoy]

5. They Shouldn't Have Committed Crimes

I mean, it's these people's own fault for being criminals. You know, we're too soft on criminals. Maybe if people knew their actions had CONSEQUENCES they'd obey the law.















I shouldn't need to do this, but just in case:
:sarcasm:

[RC]

17. Your 'sarcasm' is needed because there are people on this board

that actually believe in what you wrote.

Good Liberal Christians all, I have to assume. :sarcasm:

[bullwinkle428]

26. Some troll actually made a post like this, almost word-for-word last night,

minus any sarcasm smiley or anything at all to suggest he was joking...he better be eating dirt now! Some people are just sick...

[uppityperson]

44. This one?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3485510&mesg_id=3486307

[Lisa0825]

6. It was a brand new building, built this year.

I am sure they had to have used state of the art building techniques for hurricane prone areas.

[Fumesucker]

7. Would those state of the art building techniques include

An independent air supply?

You know, for when the damn building is under water in a storm surge?

[Lisa0825]

8. It is on relatively high ground, and is several stories high. nt

[cobalt1999]

10. Did "the damn building go under water in the storm surge"?

Did it go underwater?
Did anyone die?
Or do you get upset about ALL hypothetical disasters?

[Fumesucker]

13. I checked a topographical map..

The highest point in that area is about 22 ft above sea level.

And the average is about 17 feet.

And I saw a great many people on here get upset about hypothetical disasters last night.

Keep in mind that people in the county jail have very often not been convicted of any crime.

[cobalt1999]

23. That doesn't tell the elevation of the building though

No one is arguing that prisoners in a county jail should be kept in dangerous conditions. However, the local officials on the ground are in a better position to determine the safety of the jail than a bunch of internet posters.

The proof of who knew better should be known soon. Did anyone die? Did the building get flooded?

If not, then a bunch of folks here will look like idiots for all their wailing and gnashing of teeth.
If so, then the local officials screwed the pooch and need to face their punishment.

I'm willing to bet you that nothing happened to the prisoners.

[Fumesucker]

25. We should leave any and all judgements to our betters, eh?

Going by your criteria the Iraq invasion was a good idea because the people in charge had more information than we proles.

Were you "wailing and gnashing teeth" over the Iraq invasion?

Or did you think that your president knew better than you?

[cobalt1999]

29. Going off topic I see.

That means you realize that this is story turned out to be all hype after all.

I guess you won't be taking my bet then.

[Fumesucker]

30. Just following your lead

Regarding how officials are in a better position to judge the necessity of a given action than any regular citizen.

I wanted to see if you applied your given criteria evenhandedly.

Personally I make my own judgments, on both the Iraq war and whether completely helpless people should be left in the path of a major hurricane.

[cobalt1999]

31. So, you believe internet posters opinions should manage all emergency situations

Just seeing if you applied your criteria evenhandedly. Two can play that game.

Still waiting to see if anyone died....

I suspect when or if a thread comes out the prisoners were perfectly safe, you'll avoid it like the plague.

[Fumesucker]

32. Not at all...

But the right to criticize official decisions is one I support wholeheartedly, whether I agree with the particular decision or not.

Apparently you think decisions with which you agree should not be criticized by those who disagree with them.

And of course, if it turns out that some prisoners were harmed I suspect you'll be avoiding that one like ebola.

[cobalt1999]

33. Questioning official decisions is one thing.

Not having any information and still thinking you know better than the folks ACTUALLY there, is another.

I'll be here regardless. I don't have a dog in this hunt. I never said I know better than the folk on the ground. If they fucked up, it's on them. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt until I know a real fact.

All I'm saying is this is a topic that I wouldn't get my panties in a twist over until I know the outcome.

[Fumesucker]

48. Actually if the people "on the ground" fucked up...

It's on those who lost their life.

But since they are only prisoners we shouldn't care.

[conscious evolution]

27. I would think

they are probably in the safest place on the island.

[Th1onein]

40. Same old people......

stirring shit, as usual. I'd have thought you'd be eating some pizza by now, Cobalt.

[cobalt1999]

41. LOL.

Yep, stirring shit by having the audacity to ask the simple question "Did anyone actually die?".

I guess trying to bring a little reality into the conservation qualifies as "stirring shit" now.

I admit pointing out the prison IN REALITY didn't flood and IN REALITY no one died, interfered with all the wailing and gnashing of teeth, so I guess I'm guilty of "stirring shit". :rofl:

BTW, no pizza for me, BBQ and watching some college football after having a great morning bike ride.

[Th1onein]

50. So when they say if you stay you face "certain death"

It's somehow OKAY to keep prisoners in the jail there? Everyone ELSE who stays faces "certain death," but the prisoners are just trash, so they can be put at risk, right?

What a joke. You just aren't very smart, are you?

If you aren't eating pizza yet, I'm sure you will be soon.

[cobalt1999]

52. I'd say you were the one who isn't very smart.

Everyone Else DIDN'T face "certain death" either.

Stop believing just because someone got elected to local office, they know what the hell they are talking about.

[uppityperson]

45. It is the hypocracy.

"Evacuate or die!" except we don't have to because we know better. There have been posters bashing anyone who stayed, saying they "deserved" to die because they were told they would suffer "certain death".

So, on the 1 hand the officials say "certain death", on the other they don't bother evacuating prisoners. See the issue?

[cobalt1999]

47. Most of us in hurricane hot spots have learned to take official warnings with a grain of salt.

The poster bashing people staying probably have never been through a hurricane themselves. Probably have never been blocked from returning home from an evacuation by those same officials.

The people who stayed and the prison officials saw the same thing which was the hysteria was overblown.

All this does is makes people question any official mandatory evacuation next time.

[truth2power]

18. Thank you. As I posted below. n/t

[greguganus]

9. Next time they should check the weather report before committing a crime. n/t

[alarimer]

12. Shut the hell up.

So they deserve to die? Go Cheney yourself.

[Fumesucker]

14. Ed Meese.. Is that you?

"You don't have many suspects who are innocent of a crime. That's contradictory. If a person is innocent of a crime, then he is not a suspect." -Edwin Meese III

[truth2power]

22. I don't believe you posted that, greguganus...See, here's how it works..

People can be arrested for any of a number of reasons which have NOTHING to do with whether they are guilty or innocent. That's for the judicial system to decide. It's called a trial.

Sometimes people are in a county jail because they can't make bail for one reason or another. That still doesn't have anything to do with whether they have been adjudicated guilty or not guilty.

There's that thing called "due process". Somebody wrote about it on a piece of paper that Bush wipes his ass with every morning. Probably why nobody hears about it anymore. :eyes:

[wvbygod]

38. And when those that get the charges dropped and let out of jail

They have no recourse. Their name and reputation is smeared for life and the prosecution
gets off scott free. And when the prosecution is "the people -vs- YOU" it makes it
all the more bitter.

[truth2power]

46. Sorry! I see where you tried to edit with the sarcasm thingie. ..

And yes, sad to say, having charges dropped it's still on your record. Something needs to be done about that, although I don't have a solution.

[northernlights]

24. before committing a crime?

such as what? being picked up because they committed the crime of looking like somebody else? being picked up because they forgot to renew their registration? being picked up because somebody accused them of something they didn't do?

[wvbygod]

37. Not everyone in a jail cell is guilty

The DA here did not check the weather when he locked up an innocent citizen and
a winter storm kept him in there for a week before the charges were dropped.

Assholes abound everywhere and often hide in undisclosed locations.

[greguganus]

42. It was sarcasm. Hold on...I'll edit it. n/t

[greguganus]

43. Oh well, too late to edit. n/t

[alarimer]

11. Here there were planning to evacuate the jail.

They did move some prisoners to other facilities. This was probably Tuesday before it was apparent it was not coming here. This is a city of 300K. Bigger than Galveston. The preparations here appeared to have been much better than in Galveston. I realize that in some sense this caught the Houston area by surprise because it seemed like it would hit further south for a long time.

[stray cat]

15. I assume the building is still above water with generator power?

[truth2power]

16. I understand, Lynn. I'm just appalled at what DU has become...

I'm seeing threads all over the place where people JUST DON'T CARE. What is happening here?

As to the subject of your post...It's a frikkin' COUNTY. JAIL. It could be housing some anti-war protestor. Or someone who just didn't show proper..*ahem*.."deference" to a cop. In any case, none of them deserve to die just on account of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Geez!!

Reinforced concrete? Uh...just close the doors and windows really tight and the water won't come in. <sigh>

Some people just need to go on over to the Repugs, where they can practice Social Darwinism to their hearts' content. :banghead:

[Fumesucker]

20. What is happening here?

It's pretty obvious to me. There are a great many former Repubs who have become disillusioned with the Reps for reasons of their own situation. These people may have left the Reps but still hold a great many very selfish views.

This is the reason I'm leery of Obama's desire to expand the big tent of the Democratic party, why expand the tent just to bring in people whose values are diametrically opposed to those of us who have been long time Dems?

[flvegan]

19. I saw a scroll on one of the live feeds last night that they had indeed evacuated

but I can't confirm that. I'm hopeful.

[EFerrari]

39. And I read a report yesterday that said if they did evacuate

it would be done quietly and amid very tight security, i.e., secretly.

ETA:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/5997765.html

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

21. I posted this within another thread and didn't receive a single comment.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3990319&mesg_id=3990543

[goodgd_yall]

35. Someone else did too and I think I was the only one to respond

I said I didn't trust the statement from the prison officials that they would be evacuated but it had to be kept secret.

[JustAnotherGen]

28. That's sick

:puke:

[Taverner]

34. Texas isn't exactly known for prisoner's rights

So it doesn't surprise me

[dysfunctional press]

36. good. i'm betting it's one of the safest most secure places in town.

btw- now that it's past, how many of the 1,000 prisoners died as a result?...:shrug:

[Nikia]

49. Wow

At the local jail around here, the majority of inmates are eligible to be released for work and/or community service that is not supervised by law enforcement personnel. I would hope that they would be allowed to be released or at least moved in the case of severe weather. In Wisconsin though of course, the most likely severe weather is a tornado, which isn't really predictable.

[ColbertWatcher]

51. k+r, n/t