Religious Extremists are taking over the United States - this is not a joke

[yardwork]

Let's look at some facts:

1. John McCain agreed to the most religiously extremist platform in Republican Party history - despite personally having come out against a number of these planks (stem cell research, notably) in the recent past.

2. Sarah Palin has come out of nowhere as the VP nominee, with a background in a Dominionist church and an avowed belief in religious extremist views. She supports creationism being taught in schools, doesn't think that humans are causing global warming, believes that humans have the right to slaughter animals into extinction, is anti-choice even in the cases of rape and incest, is against stem-cell research, etc.

3. Christian Dominionists believe that the United States should be ruled by laws based on extreme interpretations of the Old Testament. Strict gender roles would be imposed, gay people would be executed, ethnic minorities would be enslaved, and white men would rule the nation. The Muslim equivalent of the Dominionist plan is the Taliban.

3. John McCain, 72 years old, has a medical history including four episodes of melanoma (a frequently fatal, fast-moving cancer), as well as horrific war injuries. If elected, he will be the oldest person elected to the presidency.

4. Each of the electronic voting machine companies in the U.S. are run by religious extremists, Dominionists in fact, who have expressed their personal views that this country should be run on their interpretation of religious principles, not the Constitution.

5. The Catholic sect, Opus Dei, is similar in their views to those of the Dominionists. Supreme Court justice Antony Scalia is a member of Opus Dei. Supreme Court justice Clarence Thomas votes with Scalia. Both of George W. Bush's Supreme Court appointees, Alito and Roberts, are religious fundamentalists at the very least.

6. We have religious extremist Republican whistle blowers coming forward to say that they have evidence proving that the national elections of 2000, 2004, and various state elections have been stolen via electronic machines.

7. Analysis of the 2000 Florida vote indicated that Gore did, in fact, win that state's election. The Supreme Court stopped the re-count. If it had continued, Gore would have been president of the United States in 2000.

8. Exit polls in Ohio and other states indicate that Kerry won the 2004 election. Numerous incidents throughout Ohio on election day 2004 indicate vote tampering in heavily Democratic precincts and counties. If Kerry had won Ohio, he would have been president. Furthermore, there is evidence that Kerry actually won other states as well, which would have given him both the popular and Electoral College win.

We need to pay attention! This is not tin foil hat stuff or conspiracy theory. These are facts.

If you still doubt the possibility that a coalition of religious extremists could be trying to take over the United States - and could succeed - please consider this: During most of recorded history, people have been ruled by religious governments. Times of economic and environmental difficulties tended to bring about the most extreme examples. It was only in the 18th century that the Age of Enlightenment brought Europe out of thrall to religious laws. That experiment birthed the United States of America.

It wasn't that long ago that Galileo was convicted for stating that the earth was not the center of the universe. It wasn't that long ago that heretics were tortured to death. Come to think of it, it's happening right now around the globe. And some of the people doing that torture - a "war in the name of God," according to nominee Sarah Palin - are United States officials.

[izquierdista]

1. Thomas

as in "Uncle Tom".

[yardwork]

6. Thank you for the correction!

[Name removed]

96. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[baldguy]

2. Dominionists make the Taliban look like amatures.

[nichomachus]

3. For one thing, they have a lot more money and

they control our election machines.

[yardwork]

5. Correct. They have a lot of money because they've teamed up with corporations.

[Iris]

81. except that so far they haven't managed to disenfranchise an entire country of women

not yet, anyway.

[Name removed]

97. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rfranklin]

100. We get the deep six at Free Republic within seconds...

You are giving yourself a mental handjob with a post like this.

[rfranklin]

102. And you are still up here after 1 hour and counting...

Go ahead, vote for a candidate who is the least qualified in the history of this nation. A person who has a profound and willful ignorance of the world, just like your boy Bush. Bush, who has made our military weaker by throwing them intot he swamps of Iraq and Afghanistan. Who has mortgaged our children's future to the Chinese and Arabs. Allowed the Wall Street predators to rape our economy. How much more damage do you want to do to this country?

[MNDemNY]

109. pizza.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=227478

[Blue State Bandit]

121. She IS qualified to lead our country... straight to hell!

She would be a great leader, of a theocracy.

[Blue State Bandit]

130. Sorry to see him TS'ed so quick, I would have liked to...

hear him stumble over himself in this "open debate" first.

But I guess the smell was getting unbearable.

[Iris]

140. wow! I should have stayed up a little later! I clearly missed one of the most profound posts on DU

in a long, long time!

[ensho]

103. lol

lol

[sunnystarr]

111. How many different posts have you pasted this ??

I responded to you here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3994677&mesg_id=3997255

Now I go read another thread and see you've pasted it again. Will I find your comment on every thread? It's time our moderators remove you from this site.

[sunnystarr]

112. Duplicate (nt)

[Marr]

118. If you were actually familiar with this site, you'd know that

DU is not a place for Republicans to argue with Democrats. It is, as the name implies and as the rules frankly state, a place for Democrats to discuss things. So no, as a matter of fact, your opinion is not welcome here. There are many blogs and websites that welcome people of your political persuasion, and your radio dial is no doubt full of blathering, hateful ideologues who would love to hear you mindlessly parrot back the talking points you've been spoon fed.

Try one of those.

[Jackpine Radical]

119. I lasted exactly 1 post at FR.

God knows what made me do it in the first place, but I did, 3 or 4 years ago, and got zapped so fast it gave me whiplash.

[The Doctor.]

125. Just because you'll be checking your post....

You're completely and utterly full of shit.

I posted to a 'conservative' site and was banned because I also posted here.

They claimed I couldn't possibly be a Republican (which I still am, but not for much longer because I really don't want to be associated with so many idiots these days) just because I posted here.

Well, let me tell you something, today's self-proclaimed "conservatives" are nothing of the sort. You're told how smart you are by your demagogues just for listening to them and believing what they tell you. Then you forego any relevant discovery or research because you've been told you're already right for believing what you're told.

And because there are just enough gullible idiots like yourself, who believe that politics is a sport where you have to root for your team no matter how badly they fuck things up, the corporations that control the government and the media gleefully get away with undermining this democracy we all so love.

Meanwhile, the 'liberals' you've been programmed to hate and ignore are desperately trying to wake you idiots up to what's happening before it's too late.

If you actually think that the OP is wrong, instead of going on a bullshit tear about how much better you are, you'd actually attempt to counter the points that the OP made.

Why don't you?

Because you can't, and you know it. The truth is a bitch, but if you sorry fools don't wake up to it soon, we ALL lose.

And yes, until you actually try to learn something, you are a fool.

Sincerely,

Dr. E

[yardwork]

132. I'm sorry I missed this one! On second thought, maybe not....

Thank you for your thoughtful and reasoned response.

[Blue State Bandit]

127. I notice that you didn't say "Will Vote For McCain"....

I ask you, what are you afraid of? Open debate?

How about an open debate on the difference between Religious Freedom and Religious Oppression?

To deny me the right to read a specific book because it contradicts someone else's religious dogma is what, Religious Freedom, or Religious Oppression?

To force my children to learn creationism in the face of common sense observations that is embraced even by the "right of" moderate practitioners of every major religion in modern history, including a growing section of the Evangelical community, is what, Religious Freedom or Religious Oppression.

To recruit young children and teenagers who are not your immediate relatives into a religious organization for via non-denominational, publicly funded youth sports programs, school campuses, youth volunteer groups, and the juvenile justice system (yes I have friends who have been recruited while in the Juvie system), is what, Religious Freedom. or Religious Oppression?

To insinuate to our future military leaders in officer training facilities that their decision to accept religious indoctrination will have a direct effect on their ability to advance, is what, Religious Freedom, or Religious Oppression?

Let's have an open debate!

Sarah Palin would make a great leader, of a Theocratic regime, but not a Democratic Republic.

[yardwork]

133. Very good points. Thank you!

[yardwork]

4. Please read kpete's latest on election fraud - Republican whistleblower

Note that the whistleblower, who claims to have inside evidence of extensive vote tampering at Karl Rove's behest, is a religious extremist.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x508011

[crimsonblue]

7. Unless nobody told me,

There is no Justice Clarence Brown. there's a Justice Clarence Thomas, though. n/t.

[yardwork]

8. EEk. Thank you. Now I understand post #2

[GinaMaria]

155. I'm picturing a Peanuts style cartoon

Called "There is no Justice, Clarence Brown" Holy crap would that be funny. A zigzag stripe on a little kid's 'justice' robe.. this could go a lot of different directions. :-) Thanks for the inspiration.

[Hestia]

9. Don't forget Eric Prince with Blackwater; The Family or Fellowship embedded

with our congressman and senators; the Liberty "university" graduates in the Dept of Justice; the embeddeding into local police forces; the arming of teens and young 20 years in Joel's Army.

The embed's go very very deep within the civil servant aspects of our local, county, state and federal government. Like I said on another link, the only good thing about Palin is that now, finally, we are discussion domionism and how truly evil this cult is.

[yardwork]

10. That's right. There's a lot more.

[yardwork]

11. Palin's church is closely identified with Joel's Army.

[hootinholler]

69. I could really use an undisputable link on that. n/t

[yardwork]

135. Here are several links. Google "palin church joels army" to find many more.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/29/163234/559/495/579213

http://open.salon.com/content.php?cid=17604

http://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/6yv0s/sarah_palins_church_is_connected_with_joels_army/

http://www.alternet.org/story/96945/theocratic_sect_prays_for_real_armageddon/?page=entire

[Cherchez la Femme]

163. Try this one, hoot

skimpy (re: Joel's Army), I know... but it gives history

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bruce-wilson/youtube-censors-documenta_b_126202.html

[bertman]

74. Don't forget the Regency U. Law school grads like Monica Goodling.

[yardwork]

12. Tom Monaghan - Ave Maria University

In February 2006, ground was broken for the new Catholic university and town, Ave Maria, Florida.<18> Monaghan controls all commercial real estate in the town, and plans to build 11,000 homes, an oratory, and several businesses. Pulte Homes has been signed up to build most of the private homes. Monaghan said in 2005 that any town retailers would not be allowed to sell contraceptives or pornography, a statement which drew fire from the ACLU.<19> Threatened with lawsuits, Monaghan has since modified his stance on how tightly commerce will be controlled in the town.<20> Defenders of Wildlife has also challenged the development, stating it is destroying habitat of the endangered Florida Panther.<21>

[flamingdem]

13. Links are crucial. People are skeptical and we need proof on these claims

For things like this:
6. We have religious extremist Republican whistle blowers coming forward to say that they have evidence proving that the national elections of 2000, 2004, and various state elections have been stolen via electronic machines.

[yardwork]

16. See kpete's latest - very detailed information at links:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x508011

What else do you need linked? I can provide links and evidence for each of the statements.

[flamingdem]

20. The connection between dominionists and voting machines -- any links

I'd appreciate that... tired of people telling me I have a tinfoil mentality on this

[yardwork]

21. Yes.

Here is a link with information:

http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/031004Fitrakis/031004fitrakis.html

Increasingly, investigative writers seeking an explanation have looked to Diebold’s history for clues. The electronic voting industry is dominated by only a few corporations—Diebold, Election Systems & Software (ES&S) and Sequoia. Diebold and ES&S combined count for an estimated 80 percent of U.S. black box electronic votes.

In the early 1980s, brothers Bob and Todd Urosevich founded ES&S’s originator, Data Mark. The brothers Urosevich obtained financing from the far-right Ahmanson family in 1984, which purchased a 68 percent ownership stake, according to the Omaha World Herald. After brothers William and Robert Ahmanson infused Data Mark with new capital, the name was changed to American Information Systems (AIS). California newspapers have long documented the Ahmanson family’s ties to right-wing evangelical Christian and Republican circles.

In 2001, the Los Angeles Times reported, “ . . . primarily funded by evangelical Christians—particularly the wealthy Ahmanson family of Irvine—the institute’s $1-million annual program has produced 25 books, a stream of conferences and more than 100 fellowships for doctoral and postdoctoral research.” The chief philanthropists of the Discovery Institute, that pushes creationist science and education in California, are Howard and Roberta Ahmanson.

Also, there's some background in this essay:
http://www.onlinejournal.com/TheocracyAlert/html/111704mazza.html

And this article in Rolling Stone (2205)
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/7235393/the_crusaders/

[flamingdem]

26. Excellent thanks - I was just checking google

this is good

[Albert_Camus]

14. She says her pro-life position is her PERSONAL opinion.....

which, I say, if that's how she feels and she's so understanding of others' positions, then wouldn't that make her PRO CHOICE?

She is trying to sound like Ms. Reasonable Person in the "Charlie" interview when it comes to this issue, but if her pro-life w/o exception (except for the exception of the life of the mother....somehwhat inconsistent IMHO) stance is her PERSONAL opinion, then she wouldn't try to overturn the law of the land, and I don't for one minute give her the benefit of the doubt on that. I think she just said it so maybe she could trick us pro-choicers into thinking she was pro-choice.


Because, I, too--a liberal Democrat, am PERSONALLY pro-life, in that I, at 43 years old who just had a baby last fall,
would have given birthto him even if he had Down Syndrome, but I am PR0-CHOICE in that I would never go for a law that would prohibit someone else from making a different decision.

Am I being clear?

She's lying about being reasonable about respecting other people's positions
onawoman's right to her own decision-making.

[yardwork]

17. Welcome to DU! I agree completely.

I too am personally pro-life. I didn't even have my babies checked for Down Syndrome. I would not have considered abortion.

However, I am not so naive as to think that making abortion illegal would stop abortions. The only way to reduce abortions is to provide women with education, economic opportunities, and contraception. The Republicans seek to take all those things away - which is why abortions rise during Republican administrations.

[Naturyl]

71. I'm also *personally* strongly pro-life.

But like just about anything else, it isn't my choice to make for others.

[sunnystarr]

117. McCain want Roe v. Wade overturned

from The View 9/12/08

<...>ELISABETH HASSELBECK: There has also been a question burning amongst voters and actually our viewers, and that is the question of Roe v. Wade. And as president, if you were, no softballs coming from me, even though you have my vote. Would you as president work to overturn that? And then would Sarah Palin be working to overturn Roe v. Wade?

SENATOR JOHN McCAIN (R-AZ): I think what we would be doing is appointing or nominating justices to the United States Supreme Court and other courts who strictly interpret the Constitution of the United States. We would not impose a litmus test on any issue because that’s not fair to the American people. But they would have to have a clear record of strict interpretation.

BARBARA WALTERS: That’s kind of the other way of saying people who would want to overturn Roe v. Wade.

McCAIN: That, that, well, that is saying that, I believe Roe v. Wade was a very bad decision, Barbara. I think it was a bad decision. I thought other, I thought other decisions of the United States Supreme Court were bad decisions. But I want people on the Court who, quote, "do interpret" and not just on the issue of Roe v. Wade, but on other issues.

.........
McCAIN: My interpretation of the Constitution of the United States is that the United States Supreme Court enforces the Constitution of the United States and does not legislate nor invent areas that are responsibilities, according to the Constitution, of the legislative branch.

HASSELBECK: So it was in how the law came up, it was in how Roe v. Wade came apart was the issue. You, you want it to be through the Constitution from the people not from the bench.

McCAIN: And I believe that if Roe v. Wade were overturned, then the states would make these decisions.

This election will determine if Roe v. Wade is overturned. Can women in America afford to go back in time? We already have "Christian" pharmacists who refuse to fill Rx's for birth control and the morning after pill.

What is wrong with the women out there who are blindly supporting the McCain/Palin ticket? Reproductive rights are more than abortion. Are women in this country actually willing to risk losing their ability for family planning?

[liberal N proud]

15. Scary considering this nation was formed from people fleeing religion

[yardwork]

27. They were fleeing religious persecution.

That's why the U.S. Constitution specifically allows for the right to follow the religion of one's choice, NOT a state-mandated religion. The extremists see a way to control people by forcing them all into one state-imposed religion.

If you look at the history of the wealthy entrepreneurs who fund the religious extremist movement, a couple things jump out. One, they tended to amass their fortunes through hucksterism. They were good salespeople. Appealing to people's religious impulses is a sure-fire way to get them to hand over their money. The two often go hand-in-hand - corporatism and religious extremism.

Second, most of these folks came from nasty family backgrounds. They tend to disavow their own parents, who were often abusive neer-do-wells. People like Ahmanson and Moghnahan are damaged people. They had terrible childhoods and now seek solace in controlling others.

[JerseygirlCT]

114. Absolutely. nt

[intheflow]

31. The Pilgrims weren't fleeing religion.

They were fleeing religious persecution. Big difference. Their religious beliefs were as harsh and extreme as the Dominionists. Just ask the people hung and burned during the Salem witch trials. It's hard to believe that almost 400 years since they landed in Massachusetts, their descendants have broken into sects as diverse as the Unitarians and the Assemblies of God churches.

[JerseygirlCT]

113. Fleeing religious persecution, not religion

And as soon as they arrived, they proceeded to practice their own form of religious persecution.

Fortunately, enough of our founders were more influenced by the enlightenment thinkers and were more open in their approach to religion. (And unlike the spin, they were not all religious, not all strictly speaking Christian).

Unfortunately, the US has deep roots in religious persecution, in spite of the wonderful Constitution we have.

[ibegurpard]

18. I know

But good luck convincing the average American.
I've pretty much tuned out and hunkered down and just hope and pray that people are a bit smarter than I give them credit for.

[1776Forever]

19. Don't forget Sun Myung Moon for goodness sake! The Mooney's are VERY scary! Link....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Myung_Moon

Wikipedia says:

Sun Myung Moon (born January 6, 1920) is the Korean founder and leader of the world-wide Unification Church and of the larger Unification Movement which owns, operates or subsidizes many organizations involved in political, cultural, mass-media, and other activities. One of the best known of these is the Washington Times newspaper.<1>

Moon has said he is the Second Coming of Christ, the "Savior", "returning Lord", and "True Parent". He teaches that all people should become perfected like Jesus and like himself, and that as such he "appears in the world as the substantial body of God Himself." He is well-known for holding Blessing ceremonies, which are often called "mass weddings"

(snip)

Coronation by Members of United States Congress

Main article: Sun Myung Moon coronation controversy

In 2004, at a March 23 ceremony in the Dirksen Senate Office Building, U.S. Rep. Danny K. Davis (D-Ill.) wore white gloves and carried a pillow holding an ornate crown that was placed on Moon's head.

Moon delivered a long speech in which he stated that he was "sent to Earth . . . to save the world's six billion people. . . . Emperors, kings and presidents . . . have declared to all Heaven and Earth that Reverend Sun Myung Moon is none other than humanity's Savior, Messiah, Returning Lord and True Parent."

...............

And it goes on and on and on.........

:wow:

[yardwork]

22. There's a lot more. DeVos, founder of Amway, is closely involved with Blackwater.

All you have to do is begin reading and the connections are everywhere. This is not conspiracy theory. These are facts.

[1776Forever]

73. Thanks - I will take a look at that one too - never knew about it.

:hi:

[Cell Whitman]

83. Moon is not a conspiracy theory either

Yardwork thank you for the important post but he asked that we not forget Moon and you replied including "this is not conspiracy" line. I hope you do understand that Moon is NOT a conspiracy either. In fact, he has more to do with making your fear possible than anyone.

The man - the world’s biggest theocrat - has outspent anyone promoting the hard right in America for the purpose of empowering these religious extremists - making fertile political ground for religious right. He calls it "restoring Christianity" and is one of his “Messiah” chores. Let me repeat - he OUTSPENT anyone funding the right, both with his media and funding individuals like the theocrat's theocrats LaHaye and Falwell. Even Forbes magazine "discovered" that he bailed Falwell out after one of their writers did a book on Falwell this year.

He also funded key figures on the right when this movement was being created - like Richard Viguerie.

The American Freedom Coalition, a Moon front that boasted a mailing list of 300,000, was called by Doug Wead one of the two most powerful grass roots conservative organizations in the country at one time. You know those voter scorecards the "Christians" get in their pews each election that tell them how to vote? Moon's AFC printed 30 million of them for Bush in '88. That is one reason Bush shills for Moon all over the world - which is where Moon is doing his real "work" today. It’s things like this, and I am just touching the surface, which led to Moon bragging that he has been leading Christianity, because in Mooneeze and to those who know how he works, HE HAS!

US News and World Report 1989 - - this is the time when this Americanized theocracy was being empowered, it didn't just happen – US News said this in 1989 – pay very, very close attention to the last line in the first graph – that has already happened or we would not have this thread nor would someone like Bush be president and we damn well sure would not have a ticket even in the polls with a Sarah Palin on it:

On New Year's Day, 1987, South Korean mystic Sun Myung Moon, who considers himself to be the son of God, told his Unification church followers that he wanted to expand the church's political influence in the United States. His aim, Moon said, was "the natural subjugation of the American government and population." ...

The initiative for starting the latest Unification Church political venture, the American Freedom Coalition, came from Pak and from Gary Jarmin, a founder of the fundamentalist group Christian Voice. In the fall of 1986, as the Rev. Jerry Falwell’s Moral Majority was in retreat, Pak and Jarmin met with other conservatives to plan an explicitly Christian third party that, in the words of one participant, would attract religious people repelled by the “more atheistic and nonreligious Republicans and Democratic parties.” ...

...the (unifications) church has established a network of affiliated organizations and connections in almost every conservative organization in Washington, including the Heritage Foundation, the largest of the conservative think tanks and an important source of government personnel during the Reagan administration. ...

The Unification Church's newfound influence has occasioned intense debate among conservatives. One group of worried young conservatives meets regularly in private to compare notes about the problem. But little of the debate has surfaced in public forums. "Most people are afraid to address the issue because they don't want to publicize the extent of the church's involvement," says Amy Moritz of the Conservative National Center for Public Policy Research.

Because almost all conservative organizations in Washington have some ties to the church, conservatives also fear repercussions if they expose the church's role. That happened when one organization, the Capital Research Center, published a newsletter last November warning of the church's attempt to create a "centralized world theocracy." One of its board members, who was also on the board of the International Security Council, resigned in protest, and conservatives charging that the paper was creating discord on the right, besieged the center with angry calls. "We got a very, very strong reaction -- almost as if we were the enemy -- because we raised the issue," says CRC Chairman Willa Johnson, a former president of the Heritage Foundation.

I could go on and on but I do find it odd that even websites like TheocracyWatch have very little on Moon - and none when they first started, given that he is the main culprit. I have studied this organization for years and can say without hesitation that Moon and his organization have more to do with the political direction of the USA over the last 35 years than anyone. You cannot name anyone who has spent more doing "his thing."

These things are documented, overly documented and so much more. Why do people think he spent as much as 3 billion on the Washington Times? Because he "loves" America? James Whelan the first editor of the Washington Times stated it bluntly, "They (the Moonies) are subverting our political system."

See him say that here:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9008719207533458404&hl=en

In 1984 the debate about the influence of the religious arose to a great degree in Presidential politics - Mondale brought it up for the Republicans were just starting to openly claim God as their own which is now common as you know.

Below is an excerpt from the The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour from August 17, 1984, - please note the person quoted is Gary Jarmin – he is one of Moon’s most important political operatives in the USA. He is the one Sen. Warren said deceived him into renting Moon a room to be crowned in March of 2004. Jarmin works hand in glove with Robert Grant of Christian Voice who was the president of the AFC. Moon called Grant one of his “three musketeers.” Christian churches still use Jarmin's methods to organize.

Quoting from 1984:

GARY JARMIN, Christian Voice: We create a new party. That opens up -- it could open a Pandora's box where we end up dividing our own vote and guaranteeing the election of Ted Kennedy in '88, which certainly would be a disaster for us.

WOODRUFF (voice-over): Gary Jarmin works with several conservative Christian groups which are trying to increase their influence in politics. He believes there are enough of them -- tens of millions, he says, so that they can get what they want without forming a third party.

Mr. JARMIN: Actually, I think the best opportunity for conservatives is to move in and take control of the Republican Party. They have the numbers at the grassroots level. All they got to do is organize them and move in and they can take control of the Republican Party if they wanted to do it and they planned it, if they planned to do that.

WOODRUFF (voice-over): Jarmin believes much of the Republican Party leadership would be sympathetic to such an influx by Christian conservatives, but he also expects resistance.

Mr. JARMIN: The moderate-liberal element, of course, will probably never be open to that concept, and I doubt that, you know, they're going to welcome us with open arms. But we're going to be coming in. They're going to have to learn to live with us whether they like it or not.

The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour
August 17, 1984, Friday Transcript #2320
Copyright 1984 Educational Broadcasting and GWETA

Yes, that was Gary Jarmin on The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour - August 17, 1984 – and you know what – maybe 100 Americans who watched that show knew who Jarmin represented and fewer knew whose theocratic agenda he was promoting. People think Moon wants to just take over and they laugh at him. What he always wanted was to empower the theocrats who he then influences, gathers them into his his front groups. He doesn't give a damn if you or I know he is alive. Such is the way of "natural subjugation" you don't see it.

Moon has had his hand in everything that has happened to our country politically for the last 25 years – that is not a conspiracy theory.

Again that is a very important post you made but please don't leave out the biggest target. He has more to do with your life today than you may likely ever know but that doesn't mean he didn't.

[Cell Whitman]

85. correction should have read Sen. John "Warner" not "Warren"

who rented Jarmin/Moon the room for the crowning in comment 83. My edit time is up but someone let me know I messed that up.

[yardwork]

137. I agree that Moon's influence is NOT conspiracy theory.

I'm sorry I was unclear. I intended to say that I don't agree with dismissing these real connections as simply "conspiracy theory."

In fact, I'm taking a closer look at a lot of so-called conspiracy theories these days. Given what the Bush administration has admitted to us, a lot of seemingly far-fetched ideas don't seem so far-fetched anymore.

[1776Forever]

160. Thanks for this post - I have a very interesting link for you - sound familiar?

http://www.talk2action.org/story/2008/9/2/171322/8599

This is the Constitution Party of Alaska's platform and they are an affiliate of the Alaskan Independence Party that Palin has been associated with. Sounds very Moon like don't you think? Tom Hartman had the clip of her introducing the AIP convention. Here is a link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwvPNXYrIyI

[Cell Whitman]

84. Thanks for mentioning Moon

See my post #83 below. Moon doesn't really give a rats ass for any of those people, but absent his cash and fronts none of their agenda would be in striking distance, at least not by this soon.

He is the "True" Father of today's conservative movement.

[ensho]

104. true - Moon and the neo cons are joined at the hip

nt

[Fumesucker]

23. The problem as I see it is this...

Americans have become so inured to a religion drenched political landscape that they don't see a problem with religious extremism unless it comes wrapped in an unfamiliar setting, like Rev. Wright.

Palin and others of her ilk are just our neighbors and co workers, Americans as a whole don't even see any problem with her religion, she is as American as apple pie and baseball.

It's mostly those of us for whom public displays of political piety are a grating irritant that are going to notice Palin's extremist religious positions. And we are a despised and thoroughly ignored minority.

McGigolo's pick of Palin was a move of inspired brilliance/desperation. Necessity, it is said, is the mother of invention, in this case the invention is a diabolical one.

[yardwork]

139. You make a very good point about Americans' preoccupation with religion in politics.

For far too long, politics in this country has been dominated by the requirement that all "serious" candidates have certain religious "credentials." John F. Kennedy was our first non-Protestant president - and the last. Every other president has at least claimed to be a Protestant Christian - and woe betide any candidate who isn't insistent on this.

We take it for granted that candidates for the presidency and other higher offices must be Christian. Recently, the requirement has gotten even narrower. Many people voted for w because he claims to be an Evangelical Christian. Somehow, this is much better than other kinds of Christians. And now it has gotten even more extreme. Sarah Palin is praised for being part of a really extreme dominionist church, on the edge of the nation in all senses.

Why are we putting up with this? The vast majority of people in the United States don't agree with these extremist views.

[dysfunctional press]

24. they may be 'facts'...but the interpretation is 100% tin-foil hat.

nt

[nichomachus]

25. You just aren't paying attention n/t

[yardwork]

30. That one is often a Doubting Thomas

[dysfunctional press]

42. there's nothing to pay attention to- i'm not the one seeing things that aren't there.

nt

[yardwork]

45. Can you refute any of the facts in my post?

[dysfunctional press]

51. if facts could be refuted, they wouldn't be facts...

it's the stupid claim in the subject line that's pure bullshit.

[yardwork]

29. Would you point to an interpretation vs. a fact in my OP?

[dysfunctional press]

37. the title of your post is 100% tinfoil hat interpretation.

they aren't "taking over the united states" except in some people's over-active imaginations.

are all the christians in cahoots? the catholics, the baptists, the mormons, the lutherans and the rest are working together on a coordinated plan for national domination...? is that your claim? what about the jews, the muslims, buddhists, and athiests...? what do they have in store for us...? :eyes:

[yardwork]

40. Your concern is noted. I never said Christian. Pay attention. I said religious extremists.

[dysfunctional press]

46. okay- so which religion's extremists are in on it...?

:shrug:

[yardwork]

53. Dominionists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominionism

[dysfunctional press]

57. you tried to claim that they aren't christians...

but the first line in the link you gave is this-

Dominionism describes, in several distinct ways, a tendency among some conservative politically-active Christians..."


next? :shrug:

[yardwork]

59. Dominionists are not Christian in any definition with which I agree.

Jesus said to love your enemy as yourself. The Dominionists believe in preemptive holy war. Jesus said that a camel can pass through the eye of a needle more easily than a rich man can enter heaven. The Dominionists believe that their god will reward them monetarily in return for loyalty. Jesus reached out the poor and rejected. The Dominionists are closely allied with white supremacists.

I could go on and on. The definition of Christianity as it is followed by the vast majority of Christians is nothing like Dominionist dogma. Just because they call themselves Christians doesn't make it so.

[dysfunctional press]

68. then why did you provide a link to a definition that says they're christians...?

it doesn't really matter which flavour of christianity anyway- they're ALL a bunch of deluded crackpots adhering to bullshit mythology.

the sooner we wean ourselves off of religion(all of them) as a society, the better off we're all going to be.

[yardwork]

64. In addition to Dominionists, there are extremists in other religions as well.

The Saudis, who are the Bush families' long time business partners and political allies, nurture extremist versions of Islam. The Taliban in Afghanistan are another example of extremist Islam. Why was Iraq attacked? In addition to oil, personal grudges, the fact that the Saudis want the region for their own, and other reasons, another possible reason is that Iraq was a relatively secular nation before we invaded it. It's neighbors have mostly succumbed to political structures dominated by intense religious extremism. In that part of the world the majority of the people are Muslim, so Islam is the natural vehicle.

In the United States the majority of the people are Christian, so it's natural to attempt to use Christianity as a vehicle for fascism.

There are also Jewish leaders who are extemists. There are religious extremists in Israel who foment war. Several American neocons are Jewish. I don't know if their religious views are partly the reason they signed onto PNAC, or if it is simply a pure power grab.

[ensho]

105. they have taken parts of the US govt. - Air Force/military for one

and NASA for another

[mojowork_n]

35. My goodness, what a lame, tired slur..

If you're so displeased by the amateur crossword puzzle analysis, read Gary Wills' article in the NYRB. It's from the November 16, 2006 edition.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/article-preview?article_id=19590

Look it up in your local library. (I'm serious, it's that important an analysis.)

This article used to be freely available online, but no longer. Not sure when that changed, sorry...

But if you have any doubts, or suspicions, or vague sense of disquiet, about how the Busheviks see and interpret reality, this will shatter your delicate sensibilities completely.

[dysfunctional press]

39. you replied to the wrong post...

the only tired lame slur on this thread is the one in the op about dominionists taking over the country.

[yardwork]

41. You're very motivated to shut down this conversation, aren't you?

[Bluebear]

47. And any other rational one.

[yardwork]

49. Consistent, at least.

[dysfunctional press]

48. no...i just think that it's an ignorant claim.

that's all.

[yardwork]

52. You've posted that over and over again. Quite a crusader, aren't you?

Do you have anything but insults to add to the conversation, or is that the extent of your contribution? I mean, can you refute a fact? Other posters have done so. I had the wrong name of someone in my OP and two people pointed that out. That's an example of constructive criticism.

Others have offered their thoughts, their disagreements, but you - you seem to have nothing but insults to lob.

[dysfunctional press]

55. facts are facts- interpretations are another thing altogether...

are you suggesting with your "facts" 7 & 8 that the elections of 2000 & 2004 were stolen by religious extremists im their attempt to turn the u.s. into a dominionist nation...?

[yardwork]

58. Yes, that's exactly what I'm suggesting! Now you're getting it!

The Dominionists tweaked the polls because of their religious beliefs. If you don't believe me, read kpete's OP that I linked here and read the first-person account of the whistleblower himself. Karl Rove told them how to tweak the polls because he was working for W. W and his family and friends (Cheney and the Halliburton team and the neocons) wanted to get elected to make a lot of money on oil and military contracts. James Dobson of Focus on the Family and all the other extremists rallied the troops.

[mojowork_n]

164. No, I replied to the "100% tinfoil hat" line

...that *is* a lame, tired slur.

[OneGrassRoot]

28. K&R and bookmarked. Thank you! n/t

[tooeyeten]

32. Since 2000

they took over.

[dbonds]

33. Don't think these extremists are growing in number.

They are a small group that the Reagan Coalition co-opted to make the republicans have enough numbers to be challenge the democrats. Both the number of political republicans and these fundies are shrinking. And they need each other. It was only a matter of time till one of the fundies in that coalition got into a position of power, even though the political republicans do not really agree with their issues. The political republicans are the big business ideologues, which has been almost complete infiltrated by the neocons. But the neocons are not the complete spectrum for political republicans, which is why more and more people are leaving that party. The republican party is far far right now. The democratic party has moved to the center. The far left is not well represented in our 2 party system. Strange that the neocons call our centrist candidates and party leftist, many true leftist think they are too centrist but better than the alternative. True leftist don't even get a mention in the news. Imagine a world where Kucinich would have an equal chance.

[yardwork]

34. The extremists may be small in number but they have the voting machines.

They have the money. They have the media. And they have lots of Americans who don't pay enough attention to what's going on.

[dbonds]

36. I agree they are playng dirty.

The big business end of the coalition owns the media. Once any of them get in power they take over the voting process. They spew propaganda all day every day. My comment was more of - we outnumber them. And they are not of 1 ideology. The neocons don't want all the fundie stuff to come to pass, they just dangle those issues out there to motivate that part of the coalition. I personally think we are seeing the first of the death-throes of these extremists, but that is also when something is the most dangerous when it has nothing to loose.

[yardwork]

38. I wish I shared your optimism. Have you read Margaret Atwood's The Handmaid's Tale?

If you look at the 20th century, we see several examples of highly "civilized" European nations becoming fascist dictatorships. It doesn't take that much to tip the balance. The ideological extremists are never in the majority. All it takes is for them to get a hook that connects with the majority of the population, who will go along with increasingly extremist behavior if they are scared and apathetic enough.

Look at what has happened in the U.S. since 9/11. Who would have thought that the United States would suspend the right of habeus corpus, a right that goes back a thousand years?

[dbonds]

50. The internet is our best tool.

Without it people just listen to the propaganda and think they are the insane ones. Now they can get a message outside of the propaganda and realize our real numbers. If you think you are isolated and get depressed you won't do anything about the 'few' taking over, but if you know we are stronger in number you will stand up to it.

[yardwork]

54. That's why I'm posting this. It's a drop in the bucket but it's my drop.

Jesus had things to say about that. Feed the hungry. Spread love. One at a time.

[ensho]

106. they have rigged voting - the religiously insane have no morals

nt

[Two Americas]

43. not sure

I think the Republican strategists must be stunned to see how easily we are frightened and manipulated, and of course very pleased about it. They say "boo!" and we lose our minds. They have succeeded at dragging us once again onto their battlefield - the cultural wars - where they have all of the advantages and where we look ridiculous in the eyes of the public.

The Republicans don't care about the cultural wars, they just use those to get elected and to distract and weaken us. It works every time.

Palin was chosen because the Republican strategists knew what our reaction would be. That was the intent - to get us to react and go nuts - not to istall a theocracy nor to rally any mythical fundy base.

The religous stuff is just a tool for the Republicans for getting elected and cover for the right wing political program.

[yardwork]

44. It's such an effective tool, though. Where will they stop?

As a deeply spiritual person, I know that these religious extremists are nowhere near being real Christians. Their ideology is a cover for amassing power and wealth. My point is that the two have become so entwined - power and extremist religion - in the United States, where will it end?

It's very easy to control people when you appeal to their emotions. Fear, avarice, and religious enthusiasm. There are millions of people who are sincerely brainwashed into believing that George W. Bush is a "godly man." We know different. Where does it end? How many constitutional rights will be overturned before we wake up?

[Two Americas]

60. when will we stop?

That is the question. We are causing this. The right wingers and their wealthy and powerful clients are doing what they always do. There should be no surprise there. What is handing them more and more power is our weakness.

None of this has anything to do with religion. The right wingers will keep using it so long as it works. We assume they use it to rally the base, we believe their nonsense about onward Christian soldiers and all of that, but the main purpose of it is to confuse and paralyze us. It is in our hands, not theirs. We stop biting, the bait stops being effective. We present a coherent and strong left wing economic program to the public, and all of the cultural wars and values and the rest of that crap that the right wingers made up out of thin air to deceive us - deceive us, not deceive the people, we are the ones who need to wake up and who are being stupid - collapses and has no more power.

The Republicans don't care about any of these cultural war issues. It is all a sideshow, a way to get us off of the real battlefield and into a trap where we waste all of our time and energy in a phony battle, boxing at shadows, chasing ghosts. It removes us from the fight, makes us ineffective at being any sort of opposition to them.

They want to get us to express our hostility toward the general public, and you can see it being expressed here more and more everyday. "The people are stupid, the people deserve what they get, we are cleaning up the gene pool, who needs 'em?" and on and on.

[yardwork]

61. That's why I posted this. We need to stop fighting within and focus on our enemies.

[Two Americas]

67. disagree

The fight within is the important one, and we are not identifying the enemy correctly. Fear is not the way for us to build solidarity in any case.

Focusing on our enemies - the illusion they create as to who our enemies are - is preciesly what the Republicans want us to do, and is the reason they nominated Palin.

They are suckering us into seeing the people as the enemy, into blaming the people. They are suckering us off into a phony fight, one that they cannot lose and do not care much about anyway. It must seem like child's play for them. We fall for it every time.

[arcadian]

56. Patrick Henry College

College for the Home-Schooled Is Shaping Leaders for the Right

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9401E6DB163EF93BA35750C0A9629C8B63

As one of 12 siblings taught at home by their parents in St. Croix Falls, Wis., Abram Olmstead knew he would fit right in at Patrick Henry College, the first college primarily for evangelical Christian home-schoolers. But what really sold him was the school's pipeline into conservative politics.

Of the nearly 100 interns working in the White House this semester, 7 are from the roughly 240 students enrolled in the four-year-old Patrick Henry College, in Purcellville. An eighth intern works for the president's re-election campaign. A former Patrick Henry intern now works on the paid staff of the president's top political adviser, Karl Rove. Over the last four years, 22 conservative members of Congress have employed one or more Patrick Henry interns in their offices or on their campaigns, according to the school's records.

''I would definitely like to be active in the government of our country and stuff,'' Mr. Olmstead, 19, said as he sat in a Christian coffeehouse near the campus, looking up from a copy of Plato's ''Republic.'' ''I would love to be able to be a foreign ambassador, and I would really like to move into the Senate later in my career.''

The college's knack for political job placement testifies to the increasing influence that Christian home-schooling families are building within the conservative movement. Only about half a million families around the country home-school their children and only about two-thirds identify themselves as evangelical Christians, home-schooling advocates say. But they have passionate political views, a close-knit grass-roots network and the financial support of a handful of wealthy patrons. For all those reasons, home-schoolers have captured the attention of a wide swath of conservative politicians, many of whom are eager to hire Patrick Henry students.


{continued}

[Marie2]

77. That's their right

We have a Constitution for a reason. Threads such as this tend to make DU look like they are going to have the "Salem Christian Trials" or burn the Dominionist books or forbid the fundamentalists from organizing a church or whatever.

We all have the rights to freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly. All of us.

[urgk]

89. It is their right. Absoutely.

As it's our right to get together in a forum and say "HOLY SHIT! People whose distorted views on their faith drive their insane quest to tell us what we can and cannot do are being represented as Congressional pages at an alarmingly disproportionate rate!"

Creating awareness of the danger of religious extremism is in no way starting to have "Salem Christian Trials" or burn the Dominionist books or forbid the fundamentalists from organizing a church or whatever."

There is plenty of room for action between the madness of the torch mob and blind complacence.

[OneGrassRoot]

90. Most people in America are very tolerant of others' views...

we are simply alarmed when someone tries to force their beliefs on others. That is its own form of religious persecution.

Evangelicals do indeed believe proselytizing and conversion are their mission.

Fundamentalist evangelicals, primarily in the form of dominionists, are militant extremists, of the same type of dangerous mindset as any other religious extremist.

That is what alarms us.

[ElboRuum]

128. Not sure what you're getting at there...

If threads like this make DU look like we're going to have the "Salem Christian Trials" as you say, then aren't your really refuting your point?

I mean, think about it. Here we are exercising our rights to express our opinions. Freedom of speech and all that. We are exercising our rights not only to practice whatever religion we see fit but also to be scornful of religion being used as a weapon against free thought. We are, technically, assembling.

But when you say, threads like this make DU look like such and such, aren't you really saying that they have a right to spout any kind of claptrap with impunity, as is their right and should be respected for it...

...however, when we do it, it's damaging in some way? In other words, by exercising OUR rights, we impugn ourselves? Pardon my saying so, but it is this blissful idea that I should support the rights of others to impugn our ideas, while at the same time making doubly sure that I don't suggest that their exercise of their rights is harming our country because of WHAT those rights are being used for, just because of some fallaciously perceived hypocrisy by people who already don't have any respect whatsoever for my views, is a crock.

The right to practice one's religion ends where my right to be free of the practice of that religion begins. Rights apply to all individuals equally, and using religion as a basis of policy over people who may not practice it is a breach of my rights. I will say so. Often. And loudly.

And be damned what it looks like.

[yardwork]

141. I think you misunderstood my OP completely. The dominionists want to remove freedom of religion.

Please google the dominionists and read about their goals. They want to replace the U.S. Constitution, including the rights to follow our own religions, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, etc., with their own interpretation of Old Testament law.

I am not saying that dominionists don't have the right to believe whatever they want. But now they're breaking laws to take away everyone else's freedom. That's the point of my OP.

We have evidence that the dominionists are rigging the voting machines to steal elections. We have a whistleblower stating that this was done in the presidental elections of 2000, 2004, and other statewide elections.

[yardwork]

62. Thank you to everyone who posted and recommended this thread.

I have to sign off for the evening. Everyone, have a good evening!

[arcadian]

63. Christendom College

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christendom_College

Christendom College is a Catholic coeducational college institutionally committed to the Magisterium of the Roman Catholic Church.

The College provides a Catholic liberal arts education, including an integrated core curriculum grounded in natural and revealed Truth, the purpose of which at both the undergraduate and graduate levels is to form the whole person for a life spent in the pursuit of Truth and Wisdom. Intrinsic to such an education is the formation of moral character and the fostering of the spiritual life. This education prepares students for their role as faithful, informed, and articulate members of Christ’s Church and society.

The particular mission of Christendom College, both at the undergraduate and graduate levels, is “to restore all things in Christ” by forming men and women to contribute to the Christian renovation of the temporal order. A temporal order infused by the spirit of Christ and Catholic teaching is generally called "Christendom," meaning those places in which Christ's teachings are considered the basis for society and its governance. This mission to restore all things in Christ, or in other words to rebuild Christendom, gives Christendom College its name.

The College's Vision Statement reads in part:

The only rightful purpose of education is to learn the truth and to live by it. The purpose of Catholic education is therefore to learn and to live by the truth revealed by Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, "the Way, the Truth and the Life," as preserved in the deposit of faith and authentically interpreted in the Magisterium of the Roman Catholic Church, founded by Christ, of which the Pope is the visible head. That central body of divine truth illumines all other truth and shows us its essential unity in every area of thought and life. Only an education which integrates the truths of the Catholic Faith throughout the curriculum is a fully Catholic education.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_H._Carroll

Dr. Warren H. Carroll is a leading Catholic historian and author, and the founder of Christendom College. He received his Ph.D. in history from Columbia University.

Dr. Carroll served at one time in the CIA's anti-communism division as a Communist propaganda analyst, a job that would later prove most beneficial when writing his monumental comprehensive study of international Communism, Seventy Years of the Communist Revolution (updated and re-released as The Rise and Fall of the Communist Revolution). After his conversion to the Catholic Church, Dr. Carroll worked for the Catholic magazine Triumph, and then founded Christendom College in the mid 1970s with the help of other Catholic laymen. Carroll was also the first president of the college (located in Front Royal, Virginia) until 1987, as well as the chairman of the History Department until his retirement in 2000.

Carroll currently lives in Manassas, Virginia with his wife Anne, who is the founder of Seton Junior & Senior High School and Seton Home Study and the author of Christ the King, Lord of History, as well as Christ in the Americas.

[Jackpine Radical]

116. "Catholic liberal arts(??)" Oxymoron!

[leftofthedial]

65. you will burn in hell

[yardwork]

66. If the people I think are there, I'll be in good company!

[Bluebear]

70. Go to heaven for the food, go to hell for the company.

:)

[OneGrassRoot]

91. I say we're already there. But when the Rapture comes,

THEN we'll be in heaven when the religious extremists have gone *poof*!

[Straight Shooter]

76. Heaven for climate, Hell for atmosphere.

:evilgrin:

[Naturyl]

72. It is indeed "tinfoil hat"...

...But also probably a closer to the truth than some of us might like to think.

[ElboRuum]

131. Tinfoil hat?

I'll buy that there is no conspiracy between religious groups to take over the nation, however, these groups almost invariably express some 'desire to shape public policy' according to their own religious interpretations as part of their mission.

You talk to most fundamentalists and you get the distinct idea that their entire day is consumed with taking the people they believe are undesirables, putting them on a list, then poring over the Bible to figure out ways to quote a scripture that somehow implies that the rights they enjoy in a secular nation should be taken away.

[ladjf]

75. They are most definitely attempting to take over the Government.

It is not, as yet, a fait accompli. This election may well let us know whether our Gov. has been
hijacked by religious nut or not.

[Marie2]

78. So is everyone else

DU is trying to influence/take over the government, right? So is Daily Kos, so is Huffington Post, so is the democratic party. All kinds of groups are trying to influence and control government, not just Patrick Henry School and Opus Dei and whatnot.

It doesn't need to be a tinfoil hat conspiracy. We can all be quite open about it. Everyone is struggling for power. As long as we stay within Constitutional bounds, so be it.

[OneGrassRoot]

92. Good point...

but there is something extraordinarily insidious about political motives being cloaked in religion which should be sacred, if the believer is genuine.

It comes down to separation of church and state, and whether or not one believes in the need for that philosophy.

Most who consider themselves liberal and also many who are traditional conservatives (rather than "neoconservatives" or "theoconservatives") see the need for separation of church and state, and that one cannot legislate morals as the Moral Majority has tried to do for decades.

The list is extraordinarily lengthy of those who have put themselves on a moral pedestal (based on their religious beliefs), only to be knocked down rather harshly, and deservedly. This is largely the territory of the right.

[WritersBlock]

93. With respect, you're missing the point.

Everyone is struggling for power. As long as we stay within Constitutional bounds, so be it.

What the OP was pointing out is that they are *not* staying within Constitutional bounds.

[ladjf]

99. Exactly.

[yardwork]

142. Thank you. This is the point that many people don't get.

I started this thread to jolt people out of their complacency.

[ladjf]

98. You must have misunderstood what I meant by "taking over the

Government". Taking over the Government isn't synonymous with winning the Presidential Election.
Taking over the Government means overthrowing the existing Constitutional Democracy and replacing it with a dictatorial ruling cabal that runs it for the sole person of extended power and money, with total disregard for the existing laws.

The Bush Administration with the help of the Republican Party has come very close to overthrowing our Government. If the win the Nov., there may never be another legitimate Presidential election in America.

[yardwork]

143. Thank you. That is the dominionist goal.

[nam78_two]

159. Some people have more rational reasons for wanting to do so than others

I am sorry but there is a difference between wanting to take control of the government because you are fiscally conservative even and wanting to do so because you think Jeebus is coming back or that because Allah or Vishnu want you to. That is a huge difference really.

Really, we need to stop pussyfooting around this stuff-these are deeply irrational beliefs these people hold-all of them-the extreme Christians, Muslims or Hindus. I for one am tired of pretending in this day and age that .."Oh all beliefs are created equal". Sorry-faith is all ok in private but this is 2008! If people want to believe all that in their homes it is one thing-but teaching creationism in schools? What is next? Are we going to teach the beliefs of Scientologists next? If they become large enough a group should we be teaching children about Xenu and Morlocks in schools? I mean those are valid too then right? Because some crazy people believe them?

Just because some people believe in something -whatever it is (Islam, Christianity, Hinduism or Scientology), it doesn't mean it should be on the same footing with ideas based in reality.

[pleah]

79. K&R No, it isn't a joke.

:-(

[windoe]

80. Excellent post & discussion

The Republican platform (and what is now called the 'center') does not remotely resemble the America of 20 years ago. Now supporting the Constitution is considered RADICAL?!!!!

[WCGreen]

82. You forgot that Ken Blackwell, the Secretary of State for Ohio in

2004, is a religious fundamentalists....

[kath]

86. See this post for more info on Palin's ties to extremist religious (read THEOCRATIC) groups:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3995035&mesg_id=3995035

links to many well-researched articles.

[judasdisney]

87. You were warned during the '80s, dumbasses, but you laughed it off. ENJOY>

http://9e.storycards.net/2005/07/handmaids-tale.html

Sample passage (one of my personal favorites):

"It was after the catastrophe, when they shot the president and machine-gunned the Congress and the army declared a state of emergency. They blamed it on the Islamic fanatics, at the time.

Keep calm, they said on television. Everything is under control.

I was stunned. Everyone was, I know that. It was hard to believe. The entire government, gone like that. How did they get in, how did it happen?

That was when they suspended the Constitution. They said it would be temporary. There wasn't even any rioting in the streets. People stayed home at night, watching television, looking for some direction. There wasn't even an enemy you could put your finger on.

... Things continued in that state of suspended animation for weeks, although some things did happen. Newspapers were censored, and some were closed down, for security reasons they said. The roadblocks began to appear, and Identipasses. Everyone approved of that, since it was obvious you couldn't be too careful. They said that new elections would be held, but that it would take some time to prepare for them. The thing to do, they said, was to continue on as usual..."

[yardwork]

144. I wish that everyone would read The Handmaids Tale by Margaret Atwood.

[JohnyCanuck]

88. Rolling back the Enlightenment - how does the lifestyle of a medieval serf grab you?

How the Chicago boys wrecked the economy: An interview with Michael Hudson
By Mike Whitney
Online Journal Contributing Writer

Michael Hudson is a former Wall Street economist specializing in the balance of payments and real estate at the Chase Manhattan Bank (now JP Morgan Chase & Co.), Arthur Anderson, and later at the Hudson Institute (no relation). In 1990 he helped established the world’s first sovereign debt fund for Scudder Stevens & Clark.

Dr. Hudson was Dennis Kucinich’s Chief Economic Advisor in the recent Democratic primary presidential campaign, and has advised the U.S., Canadian, Mexican and Latvian governments, as well as the United Nations Institute for Training and Research (UNITAR). A Distinguished Research Professor at University of Missouri, Kansas City (UMKC), he is the author of many books, including Super Imperialism: The Economic Strategy of American Empire (new ed., Pluto Press, 2002

SNIP

Michael Hudson: What do you mean “failure”? Your perspective is from the bottom looking up. But the financial model has been a great success from the vantage point of the top of the economic pyramid looking down? The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10 percent now own 85 percent of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90 percent been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy. From their point of view, their power has exceeded that of any time in which economic statistics have been kept.

You have to realize that what they’re trying to do is to roll back the Enlightenment, roll back the moral philosophy and social values of classical political economy and its culmination in Progressive Era legislation, as well as the New Deal institutions. They’re not trying to make the economy more equal, and they’re not trying to share power. Their greed is (as Aristotle noted) infinite. So what you find to be a violation of traditional values is a re-assertion of pre-industrial, feudal values. The economy is being set back on the road to debt peonage. The Road to Serfdom is not government sponsorship of economic progress and rising living standards, it’s the dismantling of government, the dissolution of regulatory agencies, to create a new feudal-type elite. (my emphasis /JC)

http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_3702.shtml

[polichick]

94. If that's true about ALL electronic voting machine companies...

There's no point in having an election at all ~ unless you use something else in all 50 states.

[yardwork]

145. That's why we have to fight this now.

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. 
[link:www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html|Click
here] to review the message board rules.

[urgk]

115. I'll take the "vote tampering." Somebody else can have at the rest.

(Before you read this, the numbers are in the original article and don't correspond to those in the OP or volcanicintellect's response.)

"But despite the media blackout, indications continued to emerge that something deeply troubling had taken place in 2004. Nearly half of the 6 million American voters living abroad(3) never received their ballots -- or received them too late to vote(4) -- after the Pentagon unaccountably shut down a state-of-the-art Web site used to file overseas registrations.(5) A consulting firm called Sproul & Associates, which was hired by the Republican National Committee to register voters in six battleground states,(6) was discovered shredding Democratic registrations.(7) In New Mexico, which was decided by 5,988 votes,(8) malfunctioning machines mysteriously failed to properly register a presidential vote on more than 20,000 ballots.(9) Nationwide, according to the federal commission charged with implementing election reforms, as many as 1 million ballots were spoiled by faulty voting equipment -- roughly one for every 100 cast.(10)

The reports were especially disturbing in Ohio, the critical battleground state that clinched Bush's victory in the electoral college. Officials there purged tens of thousands of eligible voters from the rolls, neglected to process registration cards generated by Democratic voter drives, shortchanged Democratic precincts when they allocated voting machines and illegally derailed a recount that could have given Kerry the presidency. A precinct in an evangelical church in Miami County recorded an impossibly high turnout of ninety-eight percent, while a polling place in inner-city Cleveland recorded an equally impossible turnout of only seven percent. In Warren County, GOP election officials even invented a nonexistent terrorist threat to bar the media from monitoring the official vote count.(11)"

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen

[yardwork]

146. Thank you. My mother and sister experienced this in Ohio first-hand in 2004.

[pyro858]

101. God has, is and will always be pretend

It's like these religious people are all on a bad and permanent lsd trip. Me, i need a little proof before i start beleiving in fairy tales, and folks the bible just don't cut it.

[yardwork]

147. You have a right to your belief, but that isn't the point of this thread, you know.

Personally, I believe in God. I am very grateful to live in a country with a Constitution that allows me to worship as I feel best, and allows everyone else to worship as they see best. I'm grateful for the other rights given to me in the Bill of Rights.

Those rights are being taken away from us now. The Patriot Act suspends the right of habeus corpus - the right to be charged with a crime and the right to defend oneself - away from everyone and anyone accused of "terrorism." People accused of "terrorism" - an extremely vague term - are not defendants. They have no rights whatsoever. You or I could be picked up off the street at any moment, accused of "suspected terrorist activity," and tortured and imprisoned forever without ever being charged with a crime, ever given a lawyer, ever brought before a court. This is happening right now to thousands of people!

The Dominionists think that this is fine. They want to take away all our rights. They want to impose their version of Sharia law - biblical law - on the United States.

[scytherius]

107. Then . . .

Stop tolerating them. Stop respecting beliefs. Stop saying that faith is a "good" thing. Stop calling them "values voters." I maen what is this . . . the national version of "please sir may I have another?" We tolerate religion WAY too much. They don't tolerate others and this is a street fight. You can fight them now or when they run everything. There are WAY more of us than them. Your call.

[Dystopian]

108. KandR

Thank you for taking it point by point. True and frightening. I've been freaking out since Palin appeared from nowhere, and from all I've seen, it's her mission/destiny.
It's closer than we think....we're living it.
Nowhere to run.
Yes, I'm doom and gloom....I wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then.

peace~

[yardwork]

148. Off topic but I love your sig line photo - it made me laugh.

We may descend into total fascism in this country, but many others before us have survived. If the worst happens I will hunker down and endure and fight and make myself a problem for the authoritarians.

Humor is one of our best weapons.

[Dystopian]

165. Thank you : )

:pals:

I'm glad you laughed....she's one funny cat!

Sometimes I burst into laughter at the entire situation, and find myself displaying inappropriate affect....I fear that I'm being driven into madness with fear...I'm on that list, have housed 'dissidents'....etc.

And know that I'll just be walking into my preschool classroom tomorrow...an old grandmother, and hope they don't come for me in front of the children...omg. wtf.

peace~

[santamargarita]

110. Call them what they are: Christian Fascists

~

[mcollier]

120. The strategy should be

to go to these churches and get envolved in thier community and ensure that members of the churches are discussing issues that we consider "Important"....

We could also go to the churches and get a directory list of the members, use that list to contact members and reach out to them...

We must move into their turf... With a more compelling message than the republicans..

[crispini]

123. There's a difference between getting involved in a reasonable church

and getting 'involved' with the Dominionists. I suggest you google that, or "Joel's Army," to find out exactly what they are pushing. It's top down and it comes from some folks with a very extremist religious philosophy that's not going to get changed via "getting involved."

Don't get me wrong, your strategy is probably a good idea with the Methodists, but not with these nutbags.

[yardwork]

149. Yeah, unfortunately the Methodists are not the problem.

I've tried to persuade some people I know who belong to Dominionist churches. No go. They are totally brainwashed. It's all about the lives of the babies. They can't think past abortion. They have Stockholm Syndrome when it comes to their role as women. They go along with all the crazy stuff because they believe it is their only way to Heaven.

It's like getting a person to put down an addiction. You can't do it for them. Only people with the motivation to break away from these cult-like Dominionist churches can do it.

[undergroundpanther]

122. The churches have made alliances

With extremists they don't like to get power.
The churches that are Dominionist are treasonous.
Secondly jesus did not take control of this earth when satan offered it so why are the dominionists? Because they want to DOMINATE the WORLD.Have every nee bend to THEM.

Christianity at it's core is a NARCISSISTIC belief system.Christians will deny this but maybe they don't know their own religion well enough to see it.
Armageddon comes as jesus kills off the christians enemies after the christians are 'persecuted'' than jesus takes the ones he wants who were good enough,and REWARDS like crowns mansions and bodies that cannot get sick injured or die, to the most zealot loyal slaves making them all KINGS and PRIESTS of heaven and these kings get to smash their enemies like clay pots and mock the suffering in hell.
The goal is to get REWARDED, it is NARCISSISM,and every psychopath knows how useful that"self esteem" through obedience bullshit in christianity is to exploit people who are insecure and suffering and want acceptance and to feel loved.

I HATE the bible it is nothing but mystical sounding narcissistic propaganda for conquerers to use to impose control on others and feel justified and holy while doing atrocities.

This site is maintained by a fundie,but she is not dominionist.She researches the connections between the charismatic and dominionist churches and the other extremist zealots.Do check the site out.She maps the networks.
I contributed to this page after I left AoG.
http://www.seekgod.ca/toast2.htm

More..Scroll down past the biblical crap to get to her well done reasearch pages.
http://www.seekgod.ca/research.htm

Council for National Policy..
http://www.seekgod.ca/topiccnp.htm

[protect our future]

124. I watched some of the Values Voter Summit on C-SPAN yesterday.

Now I think I "get it" as to why Sarah Palin is so loved by the evangelicals and why she is so dangerous.

You have to think like a fundamentalist thinks in order to understand.

This woman is everything a fundamentalists could want as far as extreme religious views. It is ALL these people care about. They feel that Palin has been chosen by God, and because of this, whatever she says or does is right because it is what God wants.

I repeat, this is ALL they care about.

If the McCain/Palin ticket is elected, it doesn't matter if our country's problems become even worse than they are now. It doesn't matter, because it is God's will.

If our jobs continue to be outsourced, so be it. If we lose our homes, so be it. If we are ill and can't afford medical treatment, so be it. If we cannot afford heat in the winter, so be it. If we get involved in war after war, if we find ourselves on "the eve of destruction," so be it. And on and on. IT IS GOD'S WILL, and it is our lot in life to bear every hardship, and to persevere in spite of immense difficulties. And if we do this, and if we put God above all things, we will get our reward in Heaven.

That's how a fundamentalist thinks.

Now, if the McCain/Palin ticket is elected, I am 100 percent positive that yes, things will get worse.

The implications are frightening.

[bdamomma]

126. they should be neutralized.

imposing their sick ideas of religion on other people. shameful, or do they think their God is better than our God. Sick bastards all of them.

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

129. which part Charlie?

http://gadgets.infoniac.com/secret-service.html



A unique gadget was recently presented to the community. Now we can definitely call it the smallest in the world and almost invisible, because when you put the device in your ear only a very attentive and too curious person will be able to notice it.

You need a mobile phone to plug in the wireless transmitter. In that way you will be able to receive or send any kind of information. So, let's find out who may need such device.



http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/swimming-in-your-cochlea/phonak-invisity-first-in-ear-rf-receiver-is-waxy-business-295858.php


Phonak have launched the world's first in-ear RF receiver. The device supports multiple frequencies, comes bundled with a remote control and will be active for 13hours on a single battery.

The diminutive receiver, called Phonak Invisity, remains (apparently) completely invisible when in use. It is capable of picking up transmissions from mobile phones, walkie-talkies and specialized transmitters, with a range of 250m.



"fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."

[Maestro]

134. Yes, and I fear the same

Ignorant twits can not understand that we were founded on the freedom of religion which includes beeing free from it in the government ranks. It's very simple. The Constitution calls for a separation of Church and State not the inclusion of it in the State.

[DeSwiss]

136. You can't have religious extremist.....

...without the religion being there first.

- K&R!!!


"Prayer is just a way of telling god that his divine plan for
you is flawed -- and shockingly stingy" ~ Betty Bowers

[yardwork]

150. I am not opposed to religion. It's only the vehicle being used to consolidate power.

Authoritarians have to appeal to people's deepest emotions. They've got a lot of people in the U.S. afraid ever since 9/11. Check. Now they go for the millions more who are motivated by spiritual beliefs.

Most people have some kind of belief in God. The authoritarians know this and work it to their advantage.

[bertman]

138. WOW!! Finally someone is talking about this. yardwork, you deserve a huge THANK YOU for this.

A couple of quick points, then I'll post a link to some "interesting" info that might dispel QuestionAll's tinfoil hat accusations-at least for the open-minded.

First, history has proven time and again that it only takes a small, dedicated fraction of a population to overthrow a government. Bolsheviks in tsarist Russia, Taliban in Afghanistan, Wahabbists, a tiny sect of Sunni Islam in Saudi Arabia, and most recently Neo-cons, a tiny sect of Republicans in Amerika. I'm sure there are many more that I have not mentioned, so please feel free to add to the list if you wish. A small, well-funded and fanatical group only needs to have the ability to undermine, then take over the existing regime's security and control apparatus to accomplish this.

Second, we already have numerous examples of potential takeover points in our republic: the Unitary Executive, backed by a right-wing-dominated Supreme Court and a politicized Justice Department; private mercenary armies (armed and equipped as fully operational paramilitary units) acting as domestic enforcers--Blackwater is the largest and most prominent; a central command authority for domestic "security" in the form of the Department of Homeland Security which has already shown in Minneapolis/St. Paul that it exercises complete authority over local jurisdictions and is not afraid to use them to quell legal, non-violent dissent by American citizens; the consolidation of the national voting process under the umbrella of voting machine manufacturing companies that are required to answer to noone other than their corporate officers; the corporate media propaganda industry that controls the content and dissemination of information to the populace via "publicly-owned" airwaves and other delivery systems.

We are all familiar with the astonishing abuses of power and the abrogation of constitutional authority that have occurred under the Neo-con's rule for the last eight years, so I won't bore you with the endless list.

Since this thread is dedicated to the EXTREME religious rights' desire to turn America into a Christian theocracy here's a link that may enlighten those persons who care to read it: http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/InfiltratingTheUSMilitaryGenBoykinsWarriors.html

Having been raised in a very conservative Southern Baptist family alongside other close family groups along the lines of Pentecostals and Primitive/Free Will Baptist; and having experienced firsthand the contempt they hold for anyone who doesn't believe in Jesus; and now becoming familiar with the Dominionist movement among the Ultra right-wing fundamentalists, this "conspiracy theory" does not surprise me in the least. What does surprise me is the financial power and political influence that many of the backers of this movement possess.

This is particularly scary to me because some of the really right-wing ultra-conservative Christian soldier types that I know are some of the most ignorant and incurious human beings I have ever known. They read only their bible and the literature they get from their church groups and they believe anything a "preacher" tells them. These are the very people who will be called upon to become the Faith Force Multipliers mentioned in the link above. And they will be every bit as determined and blissfully deluded as any Islamic suicide bomber.

[yardwork]

151. Thank you for your informative post! It's particularly helpful to hear your first-person account.

I think that many people are reluctant to discuss this because it can sound like we're bashing religion. In truth, we are doing the opposite. I want to protect the Bill of Rights that allows everyone to worship as they wish.

[jeff30997]

152. K&R

The U.S is on it's way to become a Theocracy.And the whole world will suffer for that if nothing is done.

"It wasn't that long ago that Galileo was convicted..." And it was even more recently that the

Catholic Church pardoned him:

"In 1992, the Roman Catholic Church finally repealed the ruling of the Inquisition against Galileo. The Church gave a pardon to Galileo and admitted that the heliocentric theory was correct. This pardon came 350 years after Galileo's death." Gee!

I'm a Catholic on paper but I believe that all organized religions are crap.They promote ignorance

and intolerance.

[frog92969]

153. Dark Ages here we come!

You don't need a tin foil hat for this one, the evidence is crystal clear.

By now our species should be advanced enough to understand why it should be beneficial to itself without threats of "eternal damnation".
All those people who frequent the pointy buildings on Sunday morning are just feeding the Beast.

[Matariki]

154. Do you have info on Electronic Voting Machines owned by Dominionists?

[yardwork]

168. Yes. See my post #21 in this thread.

Edited: repeating info here:

Here is a link with information:

http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/031004Fitrakis/031...

Increasingly, investigative writers seeking an explanation have looked to Diebold’s history for clues. The electronic voting industry is dominated by only a few corporations—Diebold, Election Systems & Software (ES&S) and Sequoia. Diebold and ES&S combined count for an estimated 80 percent of U.S. black box electronic votes.

In the early 1980s, brothers Bob and Todd Urosevich founded ES&S’s originator, Data Mark. The brothers Urosevich obtained financing from the far-right Ahmanson family in 1984, which purchased a 68 percent ownership stake, according to the Omaha World Herald. After brothers William and Robert Ahmanson infused Data Mark with new capital, the name was changed to American Information Systems (AIS). California newspapers have long documented the Ahmanson family’s ties to right-wing evangelical Christian and Republican circles.

In 2001, the Los Angeles Times reported, “ . . . primarily funded by evangelical Christians—particularly the wealthy Ahmanson family of Irvine—the institute’s $1-million annual program has produced 25 books, a stream of conferences and more than 100 fellowships for doctoral and postdoctoral research.” The chief philanthropists of the Discovery Institute, that pushes creationist science and education in California, are Howard and Roberta Ahmanson.

Also, there's some background in this essay:
http://www.onlinejournal.com/TheocracyAlert/html/111704...

And this article in Rolling Stone (2205)
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/7235393/the_...

[nam78_two]

156. Todd Bentley terrifies me

Thank you for this post-I wanted to post something like this but was afraid of flames.
Look up Todd Bentley and you will see heaps to be terrified by. I think we have become too PC about religious beliefs in this country-heck I have largely avoided discussions of this type out of fear of offending people of faith. But there are signs I see of things that really disturb me nowadays.

I am a researcher at a fairly prominent university in the south and we are a centre of biomedical research and well funded by the NIH. Something I personally find disturbing is the increasing number of students I come across who are creationists/IDers. These people are going to be getting doctrates in biology eventually and going to be out there -creationists with doctrates in biology!
We are slipping back into the dark ages. Hundreds of thousands of people went this year to get "healed" by this Bentley guy. Some rubbish called GOD Tv is watched by thousands of people.

Just look up Todd Bentley in wiki-look at the source articles-this stuff is frikkin scary:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Bentley


And most of you have already probably seen "Jesus Camp". The religious right in this country is starting to terrify me more than ever...I have always been leery of "people of faith" (at least the extreme ones)-whether they are Christian, Muslim or Hindu, but these days it is turning into real fear. I don't mean moderate people of faith-but people who really take religion very seriously scare me. It is 2008!

Maybe it is because my family, my friends and I have never been religious, but I just can't put myself really into the head space of a religious person-I don't mean to be disrespectful, but on some level I find it all so irrational. I can see having faith in something-but the dogmatic ones who REALLY, REALLY care about the accuracy of something written in some religious text somewhere frighten me-they are so irrational. Dealing with irrational people makes me uncomfortable and these Joel's Army people are nothing if not utterly irrational.

One of the things I find extra scary is some of these people where education doesn't even seem to alter their extremel beliefs. It is like a lot of these people who get involved with Islamist groups-even degrees in engineering or medicine don't seem to get these people to realise how nutty their beliefs are.And these Joel's army types are training to become a sort of Christian Taliban!

Dear God-please save me from your followers....

[Stump]

157. This is NOT a joke...

It's fucking scary...because it is happening.

[nam78_two]

158. SPLC article on Joel's Army for anyone who thinks the OP is too tinfoily

We secular progressives really need to pay attention to this crap-these people are the Christian Taliban:
http://www.alternet.org/story/96945/theocratic_sect_prays_for_real_armageddon/?page=entire

LAKELAND, Fla. -- Todd Bentley has a long night ahead of him, resurrecting the dead, healing the blind, and exploding cancerous tumors. Since April 3, the 32-year-old, heavily tattooed, body-pierced, shaved-head Canadian preacher has been leading a continuous "supernatural healing revival" in central Florida. To contain the 10,000-plus crowds flocking from around the globe, Bentley has rented baseball stadiums, arenas and airport hangars at a cost of up to $15,000 a day. Many in attendance are church pastors themselves who believe Bentley to be a prophet and don't bat an eye when he tells them he's seen King David and spoken with the Apostle Paul in heaven. "He was looking very Jewish," Bentley notes.

Tattooed across his sternum are military dog tags that read "Joel's Army." They're evidence of Bentley's generalship in a rapidly growing apocalyptic movement that's gone largely unnoticed by watchdogs of the theocratic right. According to Bentley and a handful of other "hyper-charismatic" preachers advancing the same agenda, Joel's Army is prophesied to become an Armageddon-ready military force of young people with a divine mandate to physically impose Christian "dominion" on non-believers.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Look this guy up on youtube-it is fucking nuts. He punches and kicks people who are not well in the first place on a stage while an audience of thousands watches. This stuff is nuts-I was vaguely aware of some of these people who speak in tongues and all that crazy stuff but I have been noticing that the numbers are really growing for the crazier varieties of this crap.

I think people in the scientific community really need to speak out now and I am going to be doing my part-this is insane...
In this day and age, we should not even be having this "debate" over creationism v. evolution for one thing. This is nuts...

[codjh9]

161. Why would it be a joke? They've been working on taking over the US for YEARS.

My brother is one (a brainwashed fundamentalist), so I've been pissed off at them for 30 years (that's about how long ago he fell into their bullshit). They've gotten into school boards, textbook review committees, city councils - a lot of things that don't get the big attention like US Senators, governors, US Reps - although they've garnered plenty of those positions as well. It took our side too long to wake up to this fact, but I think we have now. Besides voting and letter-writing and whatever else you can, consider joining PFAW (People For the American Way), which sounds like a right-wing group, but their biggest goal is 'Fighting the Religious Right'.

[eppur_se_muova]

162. Two words -- YURICA REPORT !!

http://www.yuricareport.com/

The Despoiling of America

How George W. Bush became the head of the new American Dominionist Church/State

By Katherine Yurica

With Editorial and Research Assistant Laurie Hall

February 11, 2004





The First Prince of the Theocratic States of America

It happened quietly, with barely a mention in the media. Only the Washington Post dutifully reported it.<1> And only Kevin Phillips saw its significance in his new book, American Dynasty.<2> On December 24, 2001, Pat Robertson resigned his position as President of the Christian Coalition.

Behind the scenes religious conservatives were abuzz with excitement. They believed Robertson had stepped down to allow the ascendance of the President of the United States of America to take his rightful place as the head of the true American Holy Christian Church.

Robertson’s act was symbolic, but it carried a secret and solemn revelation to the faithful. It was the signal that the Bush administration was a government under God that was led by an anointed President who would be the first regent in a dynasty of regents awaiting the return of Jesus to earth. The President would now be the minister through whom God would execute His will in the nation. George W. Bush accepted his scepter and his sword with humility, grace and a sense of exultation.
***
more: http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm

[Sadie4629]

166. Got any proof???

3. Christian Dominionists believe that the United States should be ruled by laws based on extreme interpretations of the Old Testament. Strict gender roles would be imposed, gay people would be executed, ethnic minorities would be enslaved, and white men would rule the nation. The Muslim equivalent of the Dominionist plan is the Taliban.

I'd need to see a little proof before I'd believe this. Sorry, but I know lots of fundies, some quite well, and I doubt that ANY of them believe any of the above.

[yardwork]

167. Yes. Check the numerous links to Dominionists in this thread, or google them.

I'm not talking about ordinary fundamentalist churches. I'm talking about those that consider themselves to be Dominionists, sometimes called Reconstructionists.