My Talk Point #2: Hey Rich People Why are you not Patriotic enough to pay 30% tax on income?

[slampoet]

Never mind that most of you avoid this tax all together by getting the bulk of your income in stock that is taxed under capitol gains and not Salary Tax like the rest of us pay.

But why aren't almost any of you getting down on your knees to thank this great country for your prosperity?

Why aren't the Rich Patriotic enough to pay MORE THAN their fair share.

Are they less patriotic than normal Americans?

[Generic Other]

1. Those who pay their taxes are truly patriots

Putting their money where their big greedy pie holes are!

[Naturyl]

2. Very good. The right questions to ask. BUT...

30%? Fahgeddaboudit. Let's try 50% *for starters.* Why not be serious about progressive taxation?

The top marginal tax bracket in this country was once 91%, and was 69% before Reagan reduced it to "just" 50.

[samuraiguppy]

35. I agree with you it should be much higher

I would try in the vicinity of 60% for starters

[tuckessee]

3. Patriotism....

...the last refuge of the scoundrel.

[SammyWinstonJack]

4. Hey now, taxes are only for the little people, don't you know that?

:silly: Leave the rich people alone!

[TlalocW]

5. Even more unpatriotic are the companies who incorporate

In foreign countries and have their corporate headquarters listed as a PO box in Jamaica or some such shit to get out of paying corporate taxes.

TlalocW

[Barack_America]

6. "To whom much is given, nothing is expected"

Isn't that how the Republican creed goes?

:shrug:

[NewJeffCT]

7. Greed and/or ignorance

Greed to want even more money for themselves.

However, sometimes people don't really see all that their taxes pay for - they see other people getting a hand up through welfare, or a minority getting a scholarship or similar and they hate that their taxes go towards that.

Meanwhile, they don't realize that their taxes have paid for the roads the drive upon, have ensured the home that they live in won't collapse around them, ensured food & drugs are up to certain standards, their workplace is a safe place to work, that police and other emergency services are available, etc, etc.

[pnutbutr]

8. To people who complain about progressive income tax

I always like to say that if I made enough to be in the top tax bracket I could have my house, cars and childrens college paid for in 5 years. Then ask what they would spend their additional income on and suggest a bigger house, fancy cars and hookers.

[slampoet]

9. Exactly. If i had everything paid off and 2 million left in the bank I could live off the interest.

2 million at 5% interest equals an income of $100,000 per year forever.


If you already have the car house kids college and everything paid for you could live a GRAND LIFESTYLE off even minor interest rates on 2 million.

Heck, 100 grand a year is enough to even take up an expensive hobby like sailing or collecting art.




WHY does anyone require a 10 million dollar bonus?

[crickets]

10. Psychopathic greed. -nt

[cherokeeprogressive]

11. What will the tax rate be on your interest income and how much less than the 100,000 will

you actually be expected to live on? You make it sound as if your investments are not taxed on the interest they provide each year. That's disengenuous.

[slampoet]

12. I also lowered the investment rate to compensate. You can easily get a 10% return on 2 million......

....so even if the tax rate were 30% you live on 70,000 at 5% and 140,000 at 10%




Are you unable to live on even 50 grand a year if you had no house/car/loan payments?


I'm in one of the most expensive states in the USA and I could still live off that AND collect pinballs for a hobby plus have a classic car.

[cherokeeprogressive]

13. 50K in So. Cal. isn't much to brag about. How many people have NO house/car/loan payments? n/t

[slampoet]

14. Are you just going to change the parameters until you can justify not paying taxes?

I proposed a person with a house and money in the bank as set.


If you want to portray a millionaire as someone in need of tax relief then make your point instead of trying to fudge numbers like a republican.


The fact will remain that someone with a house/car/no debt and 2 million in the bank doesn't need ANY HELP FROM UNCLE SAM.



If you do think they need help than make your point.


Stop cherry picking figures.

[cherokeeprogressive]

19. I pay my taxes and then some.

We're on two different pages. No need to continue. Have a Wonderful Day. I mean that.

[Greyhound]

20. People that have $2M in liquid, interest bearing instruments, that's who.

Furthermore, $50K a year in spending money is extremely comfortable in LA, or SF, or NYC, or London, or {insert name}.

"For a man to turn $100 into $1,000 is a feat, to turn $1,000,000 into $10,000,000 is inevitable".

[slampoet]

24. I love that quote. Who is it from?

[Greyhound]

28. I can't source it, but IIRC it was J D Rockefeller.

I'm pretty sure it was one of the Robber Barons.

One of those pesky pre-internet things I read...

[Greyhound]

29. Server reset, n/t

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. 
[link:www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html|Click
here] to review the message board rules.

[RB TexLa]

16. Get ready to hear from those who say doctors work for less than minimum wage and do what they do

because they are made out of love and cake frosting. :puke:

[SammyWinstonJack]

18. What a load of crap!

:puke:

[SammyWinstonJack]

17. Does that Doctor exist in a vacuum? I think he does not. And as a civil servant you benefit from

Federally funded health care, do you not? Don't we all deserve that same?

[kenf3]

31. responding

well, I quit Wall Street with greater income potential to become a NYC firefighter. In hindsight it seems I made the right move. Of course I would want everyone to have greater health care. The big question though is how without bankrupting the system.

[Greyhound]

21. Conversely, should someone that was fortunate enough to get into Med school,

can't cut it and transfers to dental school be entitled to a life that would make Croesus blush? Especially when that lifestyle impoverishes thousands of others?

[slampoet]

22. What medical speciality makes More than $2.87 million dollars a year?

A doctor would have to make $2.87 million dollars per year to be in the highest tax bracket.



Secondly as someone who has MANY healthcare pros in the family i can tell you that almost ALL doctors owe the US government in some way for their ability to be a doctor whether it is student loans, federally funded teaching hospitals or grants.

For a doctor to pass through the entire medical profession and not get help from the government in some respect is a falsehood.

Also many doctors give the impression that they are lifelong learners but in reality I see computer engineers keep up on current knowledge more than doctors do.


Besides, why is Doctor all of a sudden the ruling class? If we had not garbage men the Doctors wouldn't be able to keep up with the Cholera and other diseases.

[BlooInBloo]

25. Welcome! Enjoy your visit!

[VOX]

32. "we can more wisely choose how to spend our money better than the government"

Are you referring to the ***trillions*** that the neocons have flushed away, or are you advocating an even further privatization of government?

:shrug:

[kenf3]

33. government spending

i don't know. I'm confused. Personally, I lfeel smaller government is more efficient. As someone who works for a municipality, I can assure you there is a lot of waste that wouldn't fly in the private world. Government is very important and has a big role to play in our lives. Just don't want so many to become overly dependent on it.

[Ikonoklast]

40. Fine. Let's start by out-sourcing the fire dept.

Private business can do it cheaper, and we don't need overpaid government employees.

Like YOU.


You can't even see the irony in your own statements.

[kath]

34. Please read up on "MARGINAL tax rates"

It ain't rocket science.
The OP is not talking about taxes of 30% of the entire income.

Once upon a time the highest marginal rate was 90%. Now it tops out at 33 or 35%. Pathetic.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. My brother is a doctor, and he does not make enough money to be

taxed that way.

It is less than 1% of doctors who might make that much money, we are talking millions here, in multiple numbers

Most doctors earn, on average, 100K

So that is the first myth that needs slaying

And those who work in RURAL areas earn even less

Now 100K may sound like a lot to you... but it is not that much when you compare to the top 5% of the population who are earning over TEN million a year, or the top 1% who are making 100 million or more a year

[TahitiNut]

37. Income tax is NOT a penalty. Income tax is NOT a fine.

Try repeating that until it's understood, OK? Those who benefit the MOST from the economic system established and enforced under the governance of the nation in which they live should pay the most. Try being a doctor without government subsidized medical schools, government regulated pharmaceuticals, government supervised health insurance, and a plethora of other supports and subsides for everything from R&D to canes and walkers. I hear other countries would LOVE to have more doctors ... let them go there.

[krispos42]

38. It's not a penalty.

All those federal low-interest student loans, federal grants for research into techniques, technology, and pharmaceuticals, federal money for the universities and teaching hospitals.

Not to mention minor details like roads for patients and supplies to travel on. That's kind of nice.

Of course, the stable currency and banking system is about to go belly-up. That's the Republican's fault, of course. THEY decided it would be just Jim-Dandy for all those legions of MBA and certified whiz-kids in the Financial District to "wisely" choose how to spend their money instead of that pesky gubmint saying "Hey, you can't do that!". Nag nag nag. Cuz after all, there's no way that those thousands of rich people with MBAs from really good colleges could possibly let short-term greed override long-term stability, right?


And how about all that military cash to protect our the oil under the Middle East? That don't come cheap, especially when we have to subsidize massive and highly-profitable corporations as well as get and protect the oil for them to pump.

How about hurricane relief? How about building dams? Canals? Levees? The courts, of which 90% of their time is spend on corporate law? Police? Prisons? Fire departments? National Guard? Coast Guard? Caring for veterans? Social Security, which keeps millions or tens of millions of our most vulnerable citizens out of poverty or worse?

And student loans and grants, cuz' some evil librul said "hey, if more people had a college education it would really help society as a whole".





There are other reasons as well. The Supreme Court has ruled that $$$=free speech. Therefore, the more $$$ you have the more free speech you have. The top couple of percentage points of income-earners in this country have half of the income; therefore they have half of the free speech and are heard about as well as the bottom 96% or so. Ths is obviously really bad for a democratic-republic like ours because it means that the top 10% really outshouts the bottom 90%.

We have to make a concerted effort to figure out how much the top 5% should make as a portion of the total income nationally and adjust the taxes accordingly. If we decide that the top 5% should get no more than 20% fo the income, then so be it. Start smacking them around with steep progressive income taxes until GEO, pro sports, and actor/actress pay gets down to something reasonable again.


People will still work. Hell, people want to work. Sitting on your butt 17 hours a day, every day, is not natural or desirable. Even the wealthy take up causes and stuff to keep themselves busy, rather than simply golfing the decades away.




Tax cuts for the rich were just a strategy for the Republicans to free up tons of money for themselves. Thanks to the Reagan tax cuts, the wealthy overnight got their net income doubled or more, for which they thanked the GOP handsomely with soft and hard money and generous donations to conservative think tanks.

Same bullshit with so-called "tort reform". The reason the Repubs fight so hard for it is that it protects large corporations AND dries up the flow of money from Democrat-leaning trial lawyers.

[BlooInBloo]

23. Those who benefit the most from our system shouldn't hesitate to contribute the most.

[zorahopkins]

26. Only 30%??!!

I am of the opinion that rich folks should pay AT LEAST 70% of their income in taxes to benefit the poor and needy among us.

The very richest should, in my view, pay 90 or 95% of their income in taxes.

And the rich should have to pay tax on assets held -- not just income. So that if you have $100 million in property, you would have to pay a tax on the value of your property.

The rich became rich by exploiting the poor.

[slampoet]

27. I am just mentioning 30% to show how unreasonable the rich are. They don't even want to pay that!!!

[Thothmes]

41. So only the poor and needy should benefit

from those taxes. What about the vast majority of people that are not poor/needy and pay taxes themselves. They get nothing for their efforts.

[Odin2005]

30. 30%? They need to be taxed at least 60%.

Corporate taxes need to be at least 30% in order to control bubbles. If a company is based in another country they should be made to pay the corporate tax on the profit made here in the US or kick them out of the country. All The estate taxes should be steep, anything over $20 million should go to the government.

[aquart]

39. Just what I was about to ask: Are the rich willing to support the bailout

By forking over the Bush taxcuts and accepting a windfall tax on oil, energy and any other damn thing that skyrockets?

Or do they want "their" country to experience another Great Depression?

Are they patriotic enough to let "their" money rebuild our infrastructure and regulatory systems or do they really need a second yacht and a tenth home?

Let them try a little "deprivation." It will make them appreciate what they have so much more.