My RW coworker says the subprime mess is all Barney Frank's fault. Is any of this true?

[CTyankee]

I'd like to rebut her, but have no facts to offer. Can anybody help me out here?

[Speck Tater]

1. Experts agree that Greenspan is the most guilty party. NT

[tblue37]

38. And Phil Gramm also bears a lot of responsibility. nt

[myrna minx]

2. Why not ask her to support her claim, other than a generic faulting of one person.

It's up to her to prove her point, not for you to prove a negative.

[BOSSHOG]

9. Thank You Myrna

Sophomore High School Debate (and that was 38 years ago) If you assert, you prove.

[ColbertWatcher]

19. YES! It's high time we start demanding the GOP sheeple support their claims.

If you assert, you prove.

Needs to be a bumper sticker or t shirt or something so people will remember.

[BOSSHOG]

24. I recall back in 04

when the swiftboat book came out, an acquaintance who was a real right wing pain in the ass, bought the book, had not read it but told me it was "well researched." I said how do you know, he said look here, bob novak says so right here on the back cover. Lordy the damage done to our country by conservative ignorance.

[ColbertWatcher]

33. LOL! A picture on the back cover of a book. Wow. n/t

[DearAbby]

35. Novak said...."You don't believe me? Ask me." n/t

[ColbertWatcher]

36. What an ass. n/t

[myrna minx]

27. High School debate is exactly right. You assert, you prove.

My poor teacher, Mr. Holt, must be tearing his hair out due the state of what passes for debate and discourse today.

[Mz Pip]

41. No, it was me.

I did it. Tell her you know someone who knows someone who has admitted to it and it isn't Barney Frank.

[Ian David]

3. Your RW coworker is confused.

Barney Frank turned your right-wing co-worker gay.

Phill Gramm caused the Subprime mess.

[madinmaryland]

29. You sure it wasn't Larry Craig that turned the coworker gay??

[Ian David]

31. Only if the co-worker is a woman. n/t

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

4. What sources were quoted to substantiate her claims?

[BOSSHOG]

11. She's a conservative she don't need no stinking facts. Rush said so or maybe it was sean

[Xipe Totec]

5. No it was actually the Easter Bunny

Or maybe the Great Pumpkin.

I'm not sure, but the point is that it has nothing to do with 8 years of Republican clusterfucks.

[shadowknows69]

6. It has to be

He's the one with teh Gay

[BOSSHOG]

7. Barney Frank is gay so he's responsible for everything

I don't know what she is referring to, most likely something she heard on rw radio. I always ask such claimers "when will conservatives take responsibility for anything?" Really pisses them off. Or "I guess taking responsibility is not a conservative value." Or "where's the fucking proof bitch?"

[VP505]

59. There is lots of

mention of Barney Frank as the one responsible by the trolls over at Huffpo, so I am guessing that Rush or some other RW mouth piece said it.

[Jackpine Radical]

8. What "facts" is she purporting to offer in support of her thesis?

If I were to tell you that creatures from Neptune have landed on the back of the moon, would you try to prove me wrong, or would you ask me where the hell I got THAT wacko notion?

[BOSSHOG]

14. Wait just a second young man

If creatures landed on the Moon wouldn't we have seen them pass by? I think your just trying to stir things up here.

[Jackpine Radical]

21. The only place you can see the back of the moon from

is Little Diomede Island-or is it Big Diomede? Well, whichever one belongs to us. So Sarah Palin s the only one who knows for sure.

[BOSSHOG]

25. She's going to fly to the Sun to investigate our source of heat

but for safety's sake she's flying at night.

[Jackpine Radical]

28. I hope she doesn't leave from Canada.

The sun never sets on the British Empire, ya know.

[yardwork]

52. LOL!

Best post of the day. Mind if I borrow that?

[BOSSHOG]

55. All yours My Dear

[ProfessorGAC]

49. Not If They Had They're Cloaking Device Engaged

Gosh, you don't know anything about the Neptunians.
The Professor

[BOSSHOG]

56. I'm studying for my Neptunology Exam

Cloaking devices don't come until next semester.

[ProfessorGAC]

57. Well, That Explains It Then

But, they can have all their fancy-schmancy technology. McCain and Palin will protect us! I'm sure of it. I saw it on TV.
GAC

[BOSSHOG]

58. Despite her efforts and her BELIEFS

she had a hard time protecting her daughter from sperm cells. But by golly I would feel safe with her looking Putin in the eye.

[Fresh_Start]

10. he's one of the individuals cited in motley fools article

http://www.fool.com/investing/dividends-income/2008/09/10/the-people-responsible-for-fannie-mae-and-freddie-.aspx?source=ihpdspmra0000001

[Virginia Dare]

18. And here is his response to that criticism...

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/sam-dealey/2008/9/12/speaking-frank-ly--barney-frank-fires-back-on-fannie-mae-and-freddie-mac.html

[Fresh_Start]

26. actually he's responding to a different article

in fact, I'm not blaming Frank just responding to why someone might cite Frank as a guilty party.

[Virginia Dare]

40. I know you weren't..

it just seemed appropriate to post his response to those arguments, there..:hi:

[tpsbmam]

48. So the "very presence of Fannie & Freddie" is Barney's fault? What a crock of

shit. I don't place all blame solely on Republicans' shoulders -- we all know the power that lobbyists have and the degree to which Democrats have joined Republicans in the corrupt but legal practice of letting lobbyists determine policy, including those that have led to this mess. But the deregulation that started with Reagan and accelerated with Shrub, along with some other variables in the mix, is what's most to blame. Barney Frank's "love" of Fannie/Freddie isn't the problem.

And, I note, this is from 2004 when this problem was noted by many but Motley continued to be bullish about Fannie:

https://secure3.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid=%7B3494C241-E268-4B34-AC9B-C10EB4148BD8%7D

Fannie Mae's fans standing firm

A really nasty thing has happened to Fannie Mae, again. But its small, but select, group of investment letter supporters aren't budging yet.
On Thursday, the Wall Street Journal reported that the government-created mortgage monster could be forced to recognize additional losses from its derivatives portfolio of as much as $2.8 billion because of new accounting concerns raised by its chief regulator.
This is on top of a similar scandal last year. See my Dec. 9 column.

.....has lost quite a lot of ground since then, down from the low $70s to Thursday night's $58.51.
But it still has supporters:
The Prudent Speculator
Investment Quality Trends
Standard & Poor's Outlook
Motley Fool Inside Value

The article goes on to note that others were spotting big trouble (including the author).....Motley wasn't one of them.

[billyoc]

12. I can help you. Stop arguing with one of 19 Connecticut Republicans.

You'll be glad you did, and they won't affect CT's electoral votes one bit.

[Double T]

13. No, it is not Barney's fault. It is Clinton's fault............

like everything else that ever went wrong in recorded history.

[vanderBeth]

15. The gays are responsible for everything.

:sarcasm:

[sinkingfeeling]

16. Ask her if she remembers Phil Gramm and Ronald Reagan. Then explain that 'Reaganomics' was about

'free markets', deregulation, 'trickle down' wealth and eliminating FDR's New Deal. Tell here that under the economic policies of Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II, the 1933 Glass-Stegall Act was eliminated (authored by Gramm). Ask her what part did Barney Frank play in any of that.

[LondonReign2]

17. Two words

Phil Fucking Gramm.

[Virginia Dare]

20. Yes, they're trying to pin this on him..

but the repubs shot down numerous regulatory efforts he made over the years. I posted his rebuttal upthread.

[antigop]

22. Here ya go... read this...

http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/2008/09/9718_mccain_lehman_crisis_gramm.html

[fascisthunter]

23. She May as well have blamed Snoopy

brainwashed and misinformed

[Jim__]

30. Did she hear that from rush?

He was blaming -- guess who -- Clinton and the dems in general today. But, the "problems" he was citing had next to nothing to do with the actual cause of the current crunch.

[SmileyRose]

46. Hannity said yesterday flat out it was Barney Frank and Bill Clinton's fault

He claimed Barney Frank is the one who let FANNIE and FREDDIE take these risks with no oversight back in the early 90's. Shockingly enough, none of his callers asked Hannity why the Bush Administration didn't slap the oversight back on and take away the ability to back risky loans when they took office nearly a decade ago.

:crazy:

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

32. New York Times, Feb. 2007 - Bush Administration refuses to regulate hedge fund industry

The Bush Administration said the industry could regulate itself and report upon itself, pursuant to "nonbinding" principles. Article dated February 23, 2007, shortly after which the housing bubble really burst.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/23/business/23hedge.html?_r=1&scp=6&sq=bush+administration+hedge+funds&st=nyt&oref=slogin

New York Times

By STEPHEN LABATON
Published: February 23, 2007

WASHINGTON, Feb. 22 — The Bush administration said Thursday that there was no need for greater government oversight of the rapidly growing hedge fund industry and other private investment groups to protect the nation’s financial system.

Instead, the administration, in an agreement it reached with the independent regulatory agencies, announced that investors, hedge fund companies and their lenders could adequately take care of themselves by adhering to a set of nonbinding principles.

[anniebelle]

34. Gov. Patterson was just on CNN with wolfie telling all about it.

He said Barney Frank tried to get legislation passed just recently to ease the Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae situation (regulatory measures, I'm guessing), but the Fuhrer said he would VETO! What an ass! You might check CNN's web site and see if they have a transcript up. He was just on about 4:14 Eastern Time.

[EC]

37. This was the talking point yesterday

because Barney Frank is the head of the Banking committee in Congress.

[Yavin4]

39. The Republican Party Controlled All of Congress From 2003 Through 2006

And they controlled the White House during that exact same period of time. The sub-prime crisis started in Feb. 2007. Dems only took control in Jan. 2007.

There's your rebuttal.

[gopbuster]

42. Hit her back with this......(Foreclosure Phil)

Foreclosure Phil

Who's to blame for the biggest financial catastrophe of our time? There are plenty of culprits, but one candidate for lead perp is former Sen. Phil Gramm. Eight years ago, as part of a decades-long anti-regulatory crusade, Gramm pulled a sly legislative maneuver that greased the way to the multibillion-dollar subprime meltdown. Yet has Gramm been banished from the corridors of power? Reviled as the villain who bankrupted Middle America? Hardly. Now a well-paid executive at a Swiss bank, Gramm cochairs Sen. John McCain's presidential campaign and advises the Republican candidate on economic matters. He's been mentioned as a possible Treasury secretary should McCain win. That's right: A guy who helped screw up the global financial system could end up in charge of US economic policy. Talk about a market failure.


more..... http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2008/07/foreclosure-phil.html

Print it out and hand it to him tomorrow

[CTyankee]

45. Thank you. This is good stuff.

I will give this to her with a note saying "Do more research next time..."

[ColbertWatcher]

43. I started two threads, which might help ...

... one is about Phil Gramm (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4014407&mesg_id=4014407), the other is a more general poll about the stock market (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4015184&mesg_id=4015184).

The first contains some info about Gramm and some of the laws which lead to the current mess and the poll has some great explanations in reply about how the stock market could effect non-investors' daily lives.

Hope this helps.

[chat_noir]

44. Bush To Offer Zero Down FHA Loan (2004)

by Lew Sichelman January 20, 2004

Thousands of would-be home buyers without any money for a downpayment would be eligible for government-insured financing under a proposal that will be offered by President Bush in his fiscal 2005 budget.

Hailing the "zero down mortgage" as "the most significant initiation by the Federal Housing Administration in over a decade," federal housing officials said the plan to eliminate the normal three percent minimum downpayment will remove the single greatest barrier facing potential first-time home buyers.

"Offering FHA mortgages with no downpayment will unlock the door to homeownership for hundreds of thousands of American families, particularly minorities," Alphonso Jackson, acting secretary of the Department of Housing and Urban Development, said in a statement released in Washington.

According to HUD's projections, about 150,000 would qualify for the new loan in the first year alone.

FHA financing has become increasingly important in recent years as the Bush Administration has tried to increase the number of minority homeowners. He has pledged to create 5.5 million new minorities owners by the end of the decade.

http://realtytimes.com/rtpages/20040120_zerodown.htm

[Brewman_Jax]

47. She won't believe you

and since she's a RW, her brain is off and not usable. Give her an Army enlistment form so she can run around the desert with guns for her beloved Bush*.

[ProfessorGAC]

50. That's What I Was Thinking Too

My first reaction to the OP, was "Don't bother."
The Professor

[Andy Canuck]

51. Just laugh in your co-workers face.

[yardwork]

53. Sounds like Barney Frank is giving the Clenis a run for his money !

Barney Frank - even more powerful than the Clenis!!!

[debbierlus]

54. Just look at her like she is nuts & say - Really, do tell me how

She will then either refuse, change the subject, or lie.

If she changes the subject, bring her back to her first subject.

If she is blank, tell her to be able to support her assertions instead of embarrassing herself.

If she lies, call her on it. Even if you have to go google what she says, come back later and tell her you checked her fact and it was completely wrong. (I always add that it is a shame people don't take the responsiiblity of a five second google search before blowing smoke out of their ass).

[spanone]

60. yes, barney frank has been the president for the last eight years

:sarcasm: