This could be why AIG got a FED bailout when Lehman Brothers didn’t.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

I found this article from 2002 that may explain why AIG received a federal bailout when Lehman Brothers didn't. ...In short AIG is connected to George HW Bush's infamous investment firm, the Carlyle Group.

**I added what’s typed in italics.

Crony Capitalism Goes Global
by Tim Shorrock
The Nation
April 1, 2002



Snip…

The Carlyle Group is owned by forty-nine managing partners, who hold

94.5 percent of Carlyle's private stock. (They include Baker and Major,

whose Carlyle holdings are worth at least $200 million if the stock is equally

divided. (George HW Bush was the Carlyle Group’s Senior Adviser up until

Oct 2003) The remaining 5.5 percent is held by the California Public

Employees Retirement System .

The investors in Carlyle's various funds include US investment

banks Goldman Sachs (received a $3b bailout, Aug 2007) and

Salomon Smith Barney (Citibank and Salomon Smith Barney are divisions of

Citigroup, they received a $41b bailout Nov 2007); investment

authorities in Abu Dhabi, Kuwait and Brunei; giant insurers like American

International Group (received a $85b bailout)and the labor-oriented

Union Labor Life; public pension funds in Ohio, Florida, Michigan and New York;

and the corporate pension funds of American Airlines (included in a $15b

bailout following 9-11), Boeing, BP Amoco, GM (looking for a

bailout) and the World Bank.(THE WORLD BANK invests in the Carlyle Group!!)


http://www.globalpolicy.org/socecon/tncs/2002/cronycap.htm

…




In Short, Bush is funneling our tax dollars to crony corporations.



Conspiracy theorists are pooh-poohed around here; sometimes threads talking about conspiracies are locked or deleted. I hope this doesn’t get taken down.

[PDJane]

1. congratulations..........

You've hit it.

[phantom power]

2. I think its pretty straight-up: AIG is a lot bigger than Lehman. They're doing triage.

[Greyhound]

23. Don't worry, I'm sure this is all nothing but an ongoing "normal correction".

Owners and political donations have nothing to do with it.

[ShortnFiery]

3. What are the odds that our strack American M$M conglomerate will report this fact in ...

ANY way, shape or form? :(

[Supersedeas]

54. the pretty lil' Biz Chicks and Dudes have nothing but generalities and laughter this morning

[dchill]

4. Kinda makes that Silverado S&L thing...

from 1990 look like chickenfeed.

[RaleighNCDUer]

16. That was just a practice run. nt

[Hell Hath No Fury]

5. Yup...

just another aspect of the Bush shakedown of the American taxpayer.

[ShortnFiery]

While FAR TOO MANY WITHIN the democratic leadership avert their eyes.

:grr: :nuke:

[Just-plain-Kathy]

13. I'm afraid some of our dems may be profiting from Bush's policies. n/t

[TexasObserver]

6. AIG has long been associated with some unsavory interests.

Some of the shadowy figures around 9-11 were connected to AIG either then or in the past.

[billyoc]

7. There's a reason why conspiracy theories get endungeoned.

Lehman Brothers Co-Investment Partners to Co-Invest Alongside The Carlyle Group Through Its Acquisition of 36% of Firth Rixson, a Carlyle Portfolio Company

London – Global private equity firm The Carlyle Group today announces that Lehman Brothers Co-Investment Partners has agreed to co-invest alongside Carlyle in its existing portfolio company, Firth Rixson, through an acquisition of a 36% interest in the company. Carlyle will remain the lead investor in the company. Financial details were not disclosed.

Firth Rixson is a provider of highly-engineered forged, cast and other specialty metal products for the aerospace and general industrial markets. The company manufactures rolled, seamless rings which are used in aircraft engine, airframe and power generation applications. Firth Rixson is also a specialist supplier of forgings, castings and superalloys to the heavy truck, off-highway, mining, medical and other general industrial markets. Firth Rixson has its European headquarters in Sheffield, UK, and its U.S. headquarters in Hartford, Connecticut. The company operates fifteen facilities located across the UK, US, Europe and Asia and employs approximately 2,000 people.

The Carlyle Group acquired Firth Rixson in February 2003 through a UK public-to-private transaction. At the same time, the company was merged with Forged Metals, an existing Carlyle portfolio company based in California which also supplies seamless rings to the aerospace market. Since February 2003, Firth Rixson has consolidated its leadership position in the seamless ring sector through the acquisitions of TRT in November 2003 and Schlosser Forge Company in October 2004. In October 2005 the company became the first western ring roller in China through the opening of a modern production facility in Suzhou Industrial Park, near Shanghai.

The transaction represents a new investment by Lehman Brothers Co-Investment Partners, which is a dedicated co-investment fund and part of Lehman Brothers, the global investment bank. The Carlyle Group is an existing investor in Firth Rixson through its U.S. and European buyout funds, Carlyle Partners III and Carlyle Europe Partners. Carlyle’s U.S. and European investment teams have worked together on the investment since 2003.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

14. Please help me understand this.

Lehman Brothers became a 'weaker' partner to the Carlyle Group. ...Lehman Brothers brought all their assets to the Carlyle Group, and then became 'bankrupt'?

This sounds equally disturbing.

[HamdenRice]

57. This is a routine transaction. Here's how it works

First you have to understand what various financial institutions do. Commercial banks (like Citibank and Chase) take deposits from the public. They invest those deposits primarily in (1) mortgages made to consumers, (2) bank loans made to businesses, and (3) investment grade securities, like t-bills, and before the crisis, mortgage backed securities. They are forbidden from using their mountains of cash from buying stocks and running real companies.

"Investment banks," like Lehman, are not what we consumers consider "banks" at all. They are primarily underwriters. That means that when a company, say IBM, wants to sell their own stocks or bonds (it's called "issuing" stocks or bonds) to the public, they need an experienced middle man, called an "underwriter". The underwriter takes care of all the paperwork, including getting it past the SEC, which is massive (costing millions for one issue). More importantly, the underwriter agrees to buy every single stock or bond being issued -- in this case every stock that is about to be issued by IBM -- guaranteeing the company that it can sell the stocks and bonds, and the underwriter then hands the company, IBM, the cash it needs to do its business. The underwriter then turns this massive amount of IBM stocks and bonds over to its "broker/dealer" division. There, an army of salesmen (brokers) call rich clients and get them to buy the stocks and bonds.

This is very profitable. The investment banks gets to keep the difference between the price it paid IBM for the entire issue of the stocks, and what the salesmen can get John Q. Public to pay for the stocks.

This shows, though, that investment banks needs massive amounts of cash -- mountains of cash -- in order to play the role of underwriter -- to be able to buy the entire issue from IBM and hold it until the salesmen unload it. That's why Lehman's total assets were around $600 billion.

One of their constant worries of investment banks is: where to park that mountain of cash while they are waiting for the next company that needs underwriting, as well as the mountains of cash they retain as profits. To park that cash, unlike commercial banks, investment banks can park that cash in virtually anything -- stocks, bonds, hedge funds, derivatives -- anything.

One of the things they can do, one of the places they can park their cash, that commercial banks can't do, is they can actually purchase shares in operating companies -- real companies that make real stuff. Because they are busy doing financial stuff, like underwriting, they don't want to spend a lot of time running real companies. So they look for partners that specialize in finding little companies, making investments and helping run them. That's basically what Carlyle does, but it specialized in finding and buying stakes in companies that make stuff for the military.

This story is about Lehman parking a very small amount of cash with Carlyle in an operating company -- company that makes stuff, in this case engineered steel rings. This had nothing to do with the collapse of Lehman. It was a routine small transaction among thousands in which Lehman was looking for a profitable place to park some cash.

There is nothing unusual or nefarious about it, other than that Carlyle is a ruthlessly political, Bush family connected company.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

66. Wow, thank you for taking the time to explain this to me.

Maybe you could post your reply as a thread, I'm sure it would help a lot of people understand this mess.

With your grasp of the situation, do you support the $85b bailout?

Thanks again,
Kathy

[Karenina]

30. Do you have a link for this? Thx.

[billyoc]

31. Oh, bad form on my part, I always try to ad the link.

Straight from the horse's mouth:
http://www.carlyle.com/media room/news archive/2006/item6847.html

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

35. FUCK! (sorry) That is why the MONGERS want in government! They can STEAL all resources,...

,...without being noticed because THEY are SUPPOSED TO BE advancing national interests (to hell with "security)!!!

SHEESH. :scared: Now, THAT is,...pure evil.

No wonder! No wonder they call themselves, "amoral". They do NOT GIVE A DAMN about the impact of their actions beyond their own self-serving and imploding bubble! That is evil on the most advance and calculative scale.

Their shared grins reveal an arrogance ("me GOD, you moron") associated with ALL dictators.

Those who can't or won't believe, let alone acknowledge that, this nation is subject to the abuses of evil people are, simply, lost. Those who knowingly participate in the abuses are participants. Those who knowingly witness these crimes and do nothing are spectators. The rest are VICTIMS!!!

WHO IS GOING TO TAKE A STAND FOR ALL THE VICTIMS?!!!!!

I've noticed a repulsion to being victimized. Only the violator/criminal/oppressor/criminal benefits off that repulsion. There is a difference between being victimized and being a victim. The difference is: One person CHOOSES THE BATTLE OF JUSTICE, the other chooses succumbing to victimization, over and over, respectively.

Change in this nation will happen when we, collectively, take a stand against economic oppression. Then, we can negotiate the social differences: that is IF we are honestly interested in advancing "democracy".

yadayadayada

[NoSheep]

55. Corporate welfare is obvious, regardless of Lehman's proximity to Carlyle

If Lehman and Carlyle are connected, wouldn't you imagine shareholders pulled out their shares before Lehman went bust? I don't see how the basic facts (that this country is being milked for the benefit of Carlyle investors)have changed except the note that AIG wasn't preferred over Lehman.

[robertpaulsen]

8. Damn straight. Here's more related to that.

Bailout of AIG, the CIA, and Covert Operations
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4021641

[lapfog_1]

9. Asian investors in US securities used AIG to "insure" their investments.

Those securities include just a whole bunch of sliced and diced sub-prime mortgages.

AIG's exposure is unreal.

We couldn't let our Chinese masters down on this one.

Look up Asia times and the ongoing "run" on AIG there. Ordinary people are willing to lose thousands of dollars just to get their investments out of AIG (penalties for early withdrawal).

[Ganja Ninja]

10. Ok lets add up the GOP welfare roll.

Goldman/Sachs - $3 billion
Salomon/Smith Barney - $41 Billion
AIG - $85 Billion
American Air Lines - $15 Billion
Bear Stearns - $30 Billion
Ford - $50 Billion (potentially)
GM - $$$ (Who knows?)
Bush/Cheney Iraq War - $1.5 Trillion
Bush/Cheney tax cuts - $1 Trillion +

America's kids Health Care - $30 Billion (Oh wait never mind. That was deemed to wasteful and socialist)

[unblock]

11. i think the more likely reason is that fuld was on notice for 6 months to sell or else

he had too much ego about the firm. he's a lifer, he built it up, and couldn't suck it up and take his losses before it was too late. bear stearns happened in a flash, and aig wasn't in such a predicament until the fnma/fhlmc deal. they didn't have time to sell.

lehman did have time. the day after bear went under, the shorts turned to lehman and it was obvious he needed to sell. but dickered about price until there was nothing left to sell.

rumor has it that fuld wasn't even involved in the discussions over the weekend. the fed met with other players and the idea was if there was a deal to be had, they would just present it to fuld as a take-it-or-leave it deal.

[earth mom]

12. Great find! But I'm not surprised at all.

:grr:

[Blaze Diem]

15. Can someone get this story to Olberman..J Stewart..Colbert..YouTube??

anyone outside of the readers of DU that may have a chance of enlightening the pubic.
Clearly we won't hear a word in this direction via msm.

Once cronyism was a crime wasn't it?
If they sense Obama has a chance of winning this election, they will begin to loot as much of our treasury (future treasury) as possible..They will take whatever they can and leave the mess fo ranother Dem to clean up.

looters.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

18. Yeah, loot our treasury and start a war! ..n/t

[DemoTex]

17. A top insurance company (AIG) as the new Enron? (CSM 4/1/2005)

An accounting probe at AIG worries Wall Street, and involves some of America's richest men.

American business is facing yet another major scandal involving more accounting shenanigans. But, this scandal has the potential to cause tsunami-sized damage: It involves a highly respected insurance company, American International Group (AIG) - which is part of the Dow Jones Industrial Average - which has now admitted to $1.7 billion in improper accounting. And, it has enveloped some legends in the financial arena: Maurice "Hank" Greenberg, forced out as chairman of AIG, and Warren Buffet, the Omaha stock market guru, who will be questioned about his possible involvement.

Because AIG is so massive and important to the financial world, regulators will have to tread carefully. The company's main business is providing reinsurance, that is, it insures insurance companies. This helps the industry to spread its risk among many large and financially sound companies so a single event does not become a financial disaster for one company.

Also, because of AIG's huge size, lawyers don't think the government will bring a criminal charge against the company as it did for Arthur Andersen, Enron's accountant. The criminal charge was a death sentence for the accountant.

"There is an increased reluctance to bring criminal charges that ultimately have the effect of killing a company that otherwise employs a lot of innocent people and has lots of value to it," says Michael Gass, an expert on SEC enforcement at Palmer & Dodge, a Boston law firm. "Instead, there is an increased focus on the individuals responsible." (Sadly, more at link ..)

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0401/p03s01-usju.html

What has been is what will be,
and what has been done is what will be done,
and there is nothing new under the sun.

Ecclesiastes 1: 9

[Nihil]

49. K & R for this reply too!

Ouch.

[dixiegrrrrl]

19. And Bloomberg just said that the new AIG chairman will make millions

even tho he has been on job only 3 months.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

36. I wonder who the new chairman is related to, Bush or Cheney? n/t

[eshfemme]

20. OMFG, just when you think that you have a handle on what the problem is

There turns out to be an even bigger problem on our hands of conspiracy theory size. :scared: I don't even know what to say to all of this. It's too much and I want to curl up and sleep through it all.

[fla nocount]

21. My thoughts on those who pooh-pooh the idea that our lives are...

manipulated by conspirators is that they're either paid to post here or, they were dropped on their heads as babies and their mother didn't love them enough to pick them up.

Everybody is entitled to their opinion but to pooh-pooh the notion that a self-appointed shepherd doesn't see the sheep as a commodity is, well their mother didn't love them enough.

The conspiratorial notion that there are people posting here that are paid to post here...well, to pooh-pooh the notion, the possibility, is a reflection on either their employer or their mothers love.

Keep your mind open to the idea that someone who thinks that you can be out maneuvered is trying to do so. It's the difference between suspicious and foolish. Pray that you're wrong and apologize graciously if you are.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

22. I don't think I'm wrong. ..n/t

[fla nocount]

26. Nor do I. n/t

[Greyhound]

24. It's not often that I get 3 belly laughs out of one post. Well said & thanks!

:kick: & R

[fla nocount]

25. I was trying for 4 belly laughs, which one didn't work?

Count the paragraphs, there's supposed to be a belly laugh in each. I'm new at this and your feedback is important.

On a serious side, thank you very much for your response. The only reason any of us here post is to be responded to. Thank YOU.

[Solly Mack]

27. K&R

Excellent!!!!

[jazzjunkysue]

28. If this doesn't put B*'s Carlyle Group on Main stream media, nothing will.

Paging Keith Olbermann.

[seafan]

29. AIG is deeply tied to CHINA. See this thread by leveymg.

leveymg


Anyone seen Poppy Bush lately?

[Pale Blue Dot]

32. AIG got bailed out because if it didn't our economy would have been destroyed today.

It will be destroyed anyway, but this move by the Fed bought us a few worthless months or weeks.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

37. Today's move may have bought a few months for people involved with AIG,

but now we're ALL in debt for $85 billion. I wonder how much money that will cost each of us?

[sixmile]

33. Please keep kicked for more research

Thanks for posting. I think it goes much deeper...

[Octafish]

34. Maurice Greenberg, BFEE - China's Man in America

Thank you for a very important thread, Just-plain-Kathy!
The Bush transnational criminal enterprise has done more harm to the Constitution
and the future of the United States than NAZI Germany and international Communism combined.

What we on DU can do about it is spread the truth about them.

Here's a bit on AIG's longtime chairman:

China's Man in America

by William F. Jasper
The New American
October 8, 2001

Financial mogul Maurice Greenberg presides over a vast and expanding insurance empire. Meanwhile, he consorts with and lobbies for the barbaric Communist regime in Beijing.

Maurice R. "Hank" Greenberg leads a charmed and busy life. As chairman and CEO of one of the world’s largest insurance and financial conglomerates, American International Group (AIG), Greenberg sits atop a very profitable and powerful empire. He dines with presidents and potentates and sups with the likes of Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, global "wise man" Henry Kissinger, and chairman-of-the-world emeritus David Rockefeller. The New York-based magnate appears equally at home with the commissars of Communism, counting China’s premier, Zhu Rongji, and president, Jiang Zemin, as longtime friends.

Business has been very good for AIG. Greenberg’s "Letter To Shareholders" in AIG’s Annual Report 2000 noted:

AIG started the new Millennium on a positive note. Net income rose 11.5 percent to a record $5.64 billion, while earnings per share totaled $2.41, an increase of 12.1 percent over 1999.... et income gained 14.8 percent to $5.74 billion, or $2.45 per share. In addition, Revenues gained 13.1 percent to $45.97 billion; Assets rose 14.3 percent to $306.58 billion; Shareholders’ equity reached $39.62 billion at year-end, compared to $33.3 billion at year-end 1999; and Return on equity was 15.6 percent.

Behemoths the size of AIG have voracious appetites — and deep pockets. So, over the past few years, Greenberg has led the company on a worldwide acquisition binge. Some of the firms devoured by AIG include the Los Angeles-based financial services company SunAmerica, Inc. ($18 billion), the Hartford-based HSB Group ($1.2 billion), Egypt’s Pharaonic Insurance Company ($18 million), the financial units of Korea’s Hyundai Group ($860 million), the Canada-based Norwich Union Holdings, Ltd ($159 million), and the Chiyoda Mutual Life Insurance Company of Japan ($522 million). Most recently, Greenberg received accolades from Wall Street and the investment community for his August 29, 2001 acquisition of American General Corporation (for $23 billion).

Powerbroker

SNIP...

Greenberg is chairman of The Asia Society, the Starr Foundation, and the Nixon Center, as well as the founding chairman of the U.S.-Philippines Business Committee and past chairman of the U.S.-China Business Council. He is vice-chairman of both the U.S.-ASEAN Council on Business and Technology and the Center for Strategic and International Studies, and has long been a major force in The Business Roundtable and the President’s Advisory Committee for Trade Policy and Negotiations. He is also a member of the Board of Directors of the New York Stock Exchange, a member of the Trilateral Commission, a director of the United Nations Association, and the past chairman, deputy chairman, and director of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York. President Clinton appointed him to the Advisory Committee of the President’s Commission on Critical Infrastructure Protection.

COMMTINUED...

http://www.freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=86898&Disp=2&Trace=on

CIA also stands for "Capitalism's Invisible Army."
Allen Dulles, Prescott Bush and their crowd were all ready,
willing and able to, eh, capitalize on their knowledge on Wall Street.

I posted the excerpt above at robertpaulsen's great OP: Bailout of AIG, the CIA, and Covert Operations



Der veels of justice turn shlowly...

[Just-plain-Kathy]

38. You know what just hit me? Rupert Murdoch owns the Dow Jones.

Could it be, all these corporations we’re bailing out are secure? Maybe we’re being fed propaganda from the king of propaganda; maybe all these crony firms are taking our money and running.

Think about it, if the Dow Jones tells you your pension is gone, you’re going to believe it.

:tinfoilhat:

[Octafish]

40. Great movie, yours! Control a distracted world's money supply...

The thing is, the money's really gone, though.
Anything not nailed down is gone.
The Treasury. Wall Street. Main Street.
They've all been looted.

And we're left holding the bag:
no real jobs,
home values plummeting,
bankrupt and immoral government.

What happened is called the "Bust-Out." America's been "Bushed-Out."

We need an organized plan for community development.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

43. I can't believe this happening to America.

I really do think Rupert Murdoch owning the Dow Jones should be a concern to us.

[Karenina]

48. Gives "dig a hole to China" a whole new meaning, eh?

It's SO LONG PAST TIME to lock these nasty critters up!

[bluesmail]

39. I was wondering when someone would post the connection

to Carlyle Private Equity Group. Pigs. Monsters. Greedheads. Sociopaths.

[kaygore]

41. Excellent research

I wondered what the reasoning was behind who got bailed out.

Thank you!

[Just-plain-Kathy]

42. Thank you. Whenever something seems fishy pertaining to our government,

I Google the person, place, or thing with "the Carlyle Group".

[kaygore]

62. The "with 'the Carlyle Group'" part is inspired...yet so obvious!

I'll adopt your strategy in the future...GENIUS!!!!!

[BrklynLiberal]

44. COrporate welfare is fine..but helping the people who are sick, poor or hungry..NO WAY!!

[Dover]

45. Analysis: Some see Spitzer role in AIG's crisis

ALBANY, N.Y. - Lost by many in the week's financial markets' nightmare were ghosts of Wall Street past.

Some in business and politics are blaming the need for Tuesday's historic federal bailout for American International Group Inc.'s on the relentless pursuit of AIG founder Maurice "Hank" Greenberg by New York's former attorney general, Eliot Spitzer.

AIG needed the $85 billion loan from the federal government to stay afloat, save thousands of jobs and protect its insurance customers, while warding off another blow to a staggered financial market. Running the company during this crisis was an AIG management team brought to power after prosecutions of Spitzer, who parlayed his national stature as a Wall Street crusader to the governor's office, only to resign in disgrace 14 months later.

In 2005, then-Attorney General Spitzer forced Greenberg out of the company he built over nearly 40 years. Spitzer accused Greenberg of conflicts of interest involving a foundation that Spitzer said benefited Greenberg and AIG.

The New York Sun's editorial on Wednesday put it bluntly: "Among all (of Spitzer's) mistakes, it's hard to think of one more catastrophic than his decision to force Maurice `Hank' Greenberg out of the leadership of AIG." ..cont'd

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newyork/ny-bc-ny--aig-spitzer0917sep17,0,4571686.story

[Just-plain-Kathy]

46. Maybe Spitzer's call girl outing was payback. ...n/t

[HamdenRice]

47. Nope. The shareholders were virtually wiped out. This was to save counterparties

For your theory to be correct, the shareholders would have had to have been saved. They weren't. They were virtually wiped out -- and that presumably includes the Carlyle holdings in "equity."

This was to save all the institutions and central banks that hold mortgage backed securities and other debt guaranteed by AIG.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

50. Yes, the share holders were wiped out, but Carlyle's investors were saved. ..n/t

[HamdenRice]

52. Any evidence of that? Because the OP says the Carlyle Group had "equity"

which means common stock, which was wiped out.

Link?

[Just-plain-Kathy]

59. My OP has a list of Carlyle's investors, the whole point of the piece is to show...

how Carlyle investors are receiving federal bailouts. (link was included)

[HamdenRice]

60. Your OP shows no such thing. You've got your share ownership backwards

The OP says that AIG was an investor in Carlyle. It does not say that Carlyle was an investor in AIG. Therefore a bailout of AIG would not be shoveling any money to Carlyle.

If Carlyle owned some part of AIG, and AIG was going bankrupt, and the government bailed out AIG, then it would be correct to say that the government was subsidizing Carlyle. It would be doing so by saving Carlyle's investment.

But according to your OP, it's AIG that owns a part of Carlyle. Therefore, bailing out AIG has little effect of subsidizing Carlyle.

Look at it this way. Suppose you as a person own shares of IBM. If you go into personal bankruptcy, that has no effect on IBM. If someone saves you from bankruptcy, that also has no effect on IBM.

On the other hand, if you, as a personal investor have shares of IBM, and IBM is threatened with bankruptcy and the government saves IBM, then the government has benefited you.

Your OP makes no economic sense.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

63. I'm afraid you don't make any sense.

An investor takes their money and invests it.

In this case AIG is an investor to the Carlyle Group.

When the investor's (AIG) money dries up ---> they no long have the money to invest (or support) the firm they invest in (the Carlyle Group).

If the Carlyle Group's investors are broke, how could the Carlyle Group make money?

...Maybe we just see things differently.

[HamdenRice]

64. The health of a stockholder has no effect on the company he owns

Even if AIG went into bankruptcy, it wouldn't affect Carlyle. It's a one time investment, like buying shares in a company. If AIG were to go bankruptcy, its Carlyle stake would simply become an asset in bankruptcy to be managed and sold by the bankruptcy trustee to some other investor. It would have no effect on Carlyle's balance sheet; it would just be a change of ownership of some of its shares.

There are some minor secondary effects on Carlyle in terms of the liquidity of its shares because this was a private placement rather a public issue, but in no way is the AIG bailout giving money to Carlyle.

Can you possible explain or demonstrate any cashflow from AIG to Carlyle as a result of the AIG bailout? I don't think so.

[Efilroft Sul]

51. Does the name Peter Buttenwieser ring a bell to you guys?

Peter L. Buttenwieser has repeatedly ranked at or near the top of the Mother Jones 400 over the years, using his wealth to support the Democratic Party and its causes. An independent philanthropist with an interest in education, his campaign contributions stem from political, rather than financial, concerns. "I'm not struggling to make a corporation run, and I don't need any clauses written in to any laws," he told USA Today recently. "I just want a balanced, good, centrist, progressive agenda" that includes "abortion rights, gun control, and public education." Buttenwieser has turned down invitations to the White House, the vice president's mansion, congressional retreats at Nantucket and Vail, and rides aboard Air Force One. In 1996, he criticized an offer he received to have lunch with President Clinton in exchange for a $50,000 donation.

An heir to the Lehman Brothers securities fortune, Buttenwieser rejected a career in investment banking or law, earning a doctorate in education from Columbia University and spending 10 years as a school principal in inner-city Philadelphia. He now runs his own education consulting company, Peter L. Buttenwieser and Associates, that reviews inner-city schools and suggests improvements funded by charitable organizations.

http://www.motherjones.com/news/special_reports/mojo_400/4_buttenwieser.html

And that's a likely reason why Lehman Brothers was on the Bush sh*t list.

[nolabels]

56. Thank you, very interesting

:thumbsup:

[barbtries]

53. connecting the dots.

i think so.

[leveymg]

58. Here's some context - Carlyle, Citi and AIG are controlled by the Saudis, UAE or PRC

What we're seeing is a looting of America by the GOP's financial benefactors. The S&L ripoff of the Bush 41 era was, as well, a scheme carried out by Saudi bankers and crooked Republicans with ties to the Bush wing of the CIA. A well-tested business model.

Here's an article, "AIG's Ties to McCain, Bush and China" - http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/17/13812/8968/371/601687

The Saudis have purchased a controlling interest in a number of the dominant corporations in the U.S. Info about Saudi controlling interest in Citi, NewsCorp, Time-Warner and other key "American" companies here:

Kingdom Holdings Goes Public - Forbes.com
RIYADH, SAUDI ARABIA - Kingdom Holdings, the extraordinary conglomerate assembled ... in everything from Citigroup (nyse: C - news - people ) to News Corp. ...
www.forbes.com/business/2006/02/19/prince-alwaleed-kingdom-holdings-cx_daa_0220saudidiary.html

Carlyle is valued at about $20 billion, which is much, much smaller than the Sovereign Wealth Funds of China, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Russia and others. This casts some doubt on the thesis of a Carlyle-centric model of world dominance. See, http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/09/20/carlyle-to-sell-minority-stake-to-abu-dhabi/

The Carlyle Group has agreed to sell a minority stake to the Abu Dhabi government in a transaction that values the Washington-based private equity giant at nearly $20 billion.

The deal will expand Carlyle’s capital base and strengthen its ties to a region that is raising its financial profile. It could also provide a benchmark valuation if Carlyle should follow the leads of its rivals, the Blackstone Group and Kohlberg Kravis Roberts, and pursue an initial public offering.

The sale, announced early Thursday, calls for the Mubadala Development Company, which is owned by Abu Dhabi, to pay $1.35 billion for a 7.5 percent stake in Carlyle. The price represented a 10 percent discount to a mutually agreed valuation for Carlyle of $20 billion, Carlyle said in a news release.

Abu Dhabi is the capital of the United Arab Emirates, an oil-rich region that has been actively investing abroad. On Thursday, the government-controlled stock exchange in Dubai, also part of the U.A.E., agreed to buy a large stake in the Nasdaq stock exchange in New York and the London Stock Exchange.

Founded 20 years ago, Carlyle has investments in companies such as Dunkin’ Brands, which owns the Dunkin’ Donuts chain, and Hertz, the car-rental company.

At $20 billion, Carlyle would be worth about three-fourths as much as Blackstone, which went public in June and now has a market capitalization of nearly $28 billion. Carlyle has $75.6 billion in assets under management. Blackstone’s assets under management were about $92 billion at the end of the latest quarter.

Shortly before it went public, Blackstone sold a $3 billion stake to the investment arm of the Chinese government. That deal may have given Blackstone an inside edge in China, where it recently completed an investment in a state-owned chemical company, BlueStar.

The Carlyle Group is a particularly rapacious defense-centered global investment bank, and extremely well-connected with Right-wing politicos, but in itself is probably not sufficiently powerful to be at the center of the spiderweb. May I suggest that the real heavy-hitters who have bankrolled the take-down of the American economy are located in the Middle East and Far East.

[paulk]

61. you are wrong

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1723152,00.html

AIG has it's fingers in enough pies that it's default could conceivably cause a worldwide recession. That's why the Fed stepped in.

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conspiracy theorists are "pooh-poohed" because they make the left look like a bunch of idiots.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

65. You would have to admit that it seems fishy that Carlyle related firms,

received bailouts when others didn't.

And as far as "idiots" goes, one would have to be an idiot not to want to question and investigate strange behavior from our government.