Girl who was tasered by cops must write letter of apology

[Hugabear]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/crime/orl-taser1808sep18,0,7572422.story

<snip>
An 11-year-old girl who was shocked by a Taser after she punched a deputy was sentenced to one year of probation and ordered to write a letter of apology to the deputy.

The former Moss Park Elementary student tugged at her pink shirt as she quietly answered questions Wednesday from Orange Circuit Court Judge Alan Apte. He wanted to make sure the girl -- who wore a ponytail with a pink headband -- understood she was pleading no contest to a charge of resisting arrest without violence.
<snip>


WTF.

[billyoc]

1. ...and pay the cost of recharging the taser.

:rofl:

[mainegreen]

2. I would say why taser a little 11 year old, but she's 5 ft 5 & 170lbs.

A 170lb 11 year old? She's bigger than most adults I know!
Perfectly reasonable, all around.

[fed_up_mother]

9. At 170 pounds, I bet she looked a lot older than 11.

That doesn't mean I support the tasering, however.

[timtom]

45. Tasering BAD!!!

Period.

It strips the "perp" of all humanity. Didn't used to be like this.
Doesn't have to be like this.

[Taliesan]

62. Still

A cop should be able to take down a 5'5 170 pound woman
without a taser.

[Dr. Strange]

92. I'm sure a cop can take down a 5'5 170 pound woman without a taser.

But are you comfortable with an 11-year-old girl being wrestled to the ground by a cop? What if the girl ends up with a broken arm from the scuffle?

[suede1]

108. That cop should be in jail. Period.

[OwnedByFerrets]

3. What kind of sick world when an 11 yr old gets tasered by

the militia.:mad: Unless she had a gun, there is NO justification for this.

[Hugabear]

4. and SHE is the one who has to apologize

Welcome to BushWorld.

[sailor65]

7. What the Hell is wrong with you?

She attacked the deputy, and probably outweighed her!

And she's not even going to juvi.....

And you think this is somehow unfair?

[Hugabear]

12. I don't fucking care. The child was NOT armed with any deadly weapons

I thought cops were supposed to be trained in self defense?

This was an eleven year old CHILD. Not some super-strengthed meth addict.

[Sanctified]

33. The girl was 5'5" and 170 Lbs, she gave the cop a bloody nose.

The Girl is just 5 pounds lighter than me and I am willing to bet I would not be able to subdue her without hurting her.

[Egnever]

38. Thats why you arent a cop

[Hugabear]

39. How about clearing the classroom. Isolating her.

There are other options besides tasing a CHILD, which very well could have been FATAL.

[Sanctified]

48. Leaving her by herself in an empty classroom by herself could be fatal. n/t

[Hugabear]

So could a fucking taser.

In fact, I think a taser on a child would have a better chance of being fatal.

[Sanctified]

60. The girl lived, the situation did not escalate and no other people were hurt by the girl.

In my opinion it was the right decision for the situation, the alternative was the baton and I think that would have done way more damage to the girl mentally.

[Egnever]

31. Yes she is 11

you think juvi would somehow be good for her?

[Captain Sensible]

13. The Militia??????????

I bet you love the cops when you need them to pull you from a burning car or defend you from rapists.
But for right now they are all pigs right?

[Shandris]

101. Oh please

Defend me from a rapist? I hear this kind of junk all the time. Until the act is attempted, the person isn't a rapist, and there is nothing whatsoever that the police can do, so the odds of them protecting me from one approach absolute zero. They may well make me pay for my kit afterwards though. :grr:

So instead of making the police to be all bright shiny heroes when most of us KNOW better, lets give them their credit when and where its' due. I'm fine with police doing their job. And tasering an 11 year old girl isn't it.

[liberalhistorian]

47. Maybe she shouldn't have punched

a cop in the first place, you know? Just sayin'.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

99. Nah, sounds like he deserved that.

:shrug:

[Lerkfish]

5. lemme guess... the girl was african american?

didn't see it in the article, but I'd bet money on it.

[slampoet]

6. Dear Pig, Sorry to be a conductor. -- person you tried to fry to death rather than deal with them.

[lpbk2713]

8. "And after that it's off to Gitmo with you. You little tairist!!!11!"

"What we have here ... "

[Starbucks Anarchist]

10. If you can't handle an 11 y/o with your bare hands, you shouldn't be a cop.

[guitar man]

11. exactly

Even if the 11 year old is 5'5" and 170. If you're going to be a cop, you should be able to take someone a lot bigger and meaner than that into custody without resorting to zapping them.

[Captain Sensible]

14. So put himself in close proximity just to appear extra lovey?

Those weapons are issued to cops for a reason. Lets see how long you last being asked to confront violent individuals everyday.

[Hugabear]

17. Once again - this child was NOT armed with any deadly weapons

And this was NOT a strung-out super-strength meth-head.

Cops also take self-defense lessons. If you can't defend yourself against an 11-yr old, then you have no business being a cop.

[Captain Sensible]

20. You have nooo idea of the facts.

Its easy to second guess. At the time she may have had a weapon hidden. Hindsight is great but imagine you are faced with someone willing to punch a cop ( not a good idea) why would you not suspect that she may have had a weapon.
If you are mugged do you confirm that they have a weapon before you give over your wallet? yes or no?

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Captain Sensible]

27. Hello ?????????

It IS a fact that she might have had a weapon..............! What nice peaceful planet do you live on?
Ever been afraid for your life before? Because I have.

[Hugabear]

30. It's a fact that ANYONE could have a weapon. Tase them all.

I think that you've proven your fascist tendencies in this thread. Thank you very much, enjoy your stay on DU.

[Captain Sensible]

41. I will.

You have shown that you have no idea what its like to do a job where you are trained to assume that every threat is a deadly one.

What is your profession by the way?

[Hugabear]

52. I hope to god that you are not a policeman

If your reaction to every situation is to assume that they have a weapon and will kill you, if your first instinct is to escalate the violence, then I fear for anyone you may come across.

I suppose that you would have been against any non-violent approaches, such as clearing the rest of the children out of the room, isolating the student, etc. No, you want to just shoot first, ask questions later. After all, that little bitch might be packing a .38 inside her Hello Kitty lunchbox.

[Egnever]

34. yea and Sadam might have had WMD's

your logic here sucks

[Captain Sensible]

42. Blah blah blah i'm soo cool with my hindsight.

[Egnever]

51. blah blah blah I walk arround afraid all the time

Your fear does not justify rash reactions. It didn't for shrub and it doesn't for this "cop".

[Captain Sensible]

57. It's not fear.

Imagine your job is to respond to a crime EVERY time you were called. Think you would be Ghandi still????

After a while you just take the path of least resistance. Think you would be any different?
Be honest please............Please...............

[Egnever]

66. This is why I dont have such a job

Because that would be my approach.

Doesn't make it ok for the people that do have that job to do it. If you have that attitude you need to seek another line of work.

It is exactly why people hate cops. They justify their actions to themselves and overreact to situations.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

77. If he can't handle an unarmed kid, how the hell can he handle an armed adult?

[Ignis]

106. Welcome to DU

Enjoy your stay, no matter how brief.

:hi:

[bdamomma]

15. WTF, an 11 year old to write an apology?

and we have Palin's husband ignoring a subpoena? Up is Down in the US.

[liberalhistorian]

70. WTF? What in the HELL does

one have to do with the other???????? Hope you never have to take a logic class, 'cause I'm afraid you wouldn't boost your GPA up too much.

[Captain Sensible]

16. Its funny.......

no one here thinks the girl is at fault for spitting at teachers and punching a cop.

[Hugabear]

18. Strawman

Nobody here has said anything of that sort.

[Captain Sensible]

19. Well they said...

that he should have not used the tools at his disposal to subdue her.

I wish they could walk in a cops shoes for one day.

[Chisox08]

21. Its not ok for her to spit on the teacher or punch a cop but

It is still not a good enough reason to tase a 11 year old child. A child could not hurt a full grown man with who is fully trained in self defense. The tase4r is used for those who can physically overpower the officer and is resisting arrest with violence.
One more thing that taser could have killed that little girl. It is made to take down adults not children.

[Captain Sensible]

22. You have no idea if she could hurt him.

All it takes is one hit to an eye to blind someone.
Try putting yourself at risk every single day and then you can act like you would have perfect restraint.

[Hugabear]

24. And using a taser on a child could KILL them

People do die from tasers, they're not completely "non-lethal" weapons. But hell, since you want to just assume that every child in school is packing a gun, why not.

[Captain Sensible]

26. Strawman.

Not a gun but a knife can do damage no?

Tell me why a cop should assume he will not be harmed when he is being punched.

Imaging that girl was punching you. Would you use any option to defend yourself or would you be as gentle as possible. And don't tell me it's their job it's not their job to take unnecessary risks, and yes people have been killed by 11 yr olds before.

[Hugabear]

37. Have you ever heard of SELF-DEFENSE?

You know, things like judo, karate, etc? There used to be a time when cops were actually taught how to DEFEND themselves in these types of situations.

Imagine that.

And it's obvious from your response that you don't know what the hell a strawman is.

[Captain Sensible]

50. Why..........

Would you get into close contact defense ( judo) when you have a taser? That's why they issue them!!!
I can tell you have never had to defend yourself.

[MadHound]

83. Oh damn, what did those poor cops ever do before there were tasers?

Oh, yeah, they used others skills, like talking to people, isolating people, and if necessary using the least amount of physical force to subdue people.

But now, the first option for cops seems to be to reach for the taser and fry somebody. Sorry, but taser abuse is real and widespread. Two weeks ago we had a drunk driver killed after being tased twice. A month ago we had a man who was suicidal, standing on the edge of an I-70 overpass who was tased twice. He fell fifteen feet onto the concrete below and received severe injuries. Doesn't tasing somebody who was suicidal seem just a bit wrong to you, especially since they were trying to save this guy's life, but instead could have potentially ended it?

Oh, and some of us have put our lives at risk every single day, and didn't hurt anybody nor did we use a taser. So get the fuck over yourself.

[Hugabear]

90. They used a taser on a suicidal guy standing on an overpass?

Wow, talk about really fucking stupid. It never occurred to them that it could cause him to fall off the overpass?

[fascisthunter]

97. so you think it's ok to taser children and risk death?

you are one sick individual

[Sanctified]

40. Did you read the story? The cop was a female and recieved a bloody nose.

"The incident occurred March 27 when the 5-foot-5, 170-pound girl became disruptive in a class and started shoving her desk and spitting at teachers. Orange County Deputy Sheriff Donna Hudepohl, Moss Park's school resource officer, came to the classroom to remove the child.

The girl refused to comply and began flailing around -- pushing the deputy and hitting her in the face. The deputy suffered a bloody nose."

[Hugabear]

43. See post #39

There are other ways to deal with a situation like this other than ESCALATING the violence.

[Sanctified]

54. Police officers are trained to end a confrentation as soon as possible

to eliminate the possibility of the situation escalating. The idea that you leave a child by themselves to cool off in a classroom is not going to happen.

[Egnever]

44. oh gosh a bloody nose!

well hell she shoulda shot her then!

[Sanctified]

56. The alternative was a baton not a gun.

And honestly I would probably have preferred the baton since it would have not drug out the tasers are bad crowed.

[SoCalDem]

73. It's too bad they did not act pro-actively..

The teacher should have just sked the class to remove themselves from the room, leave with them, lock the unruly kid inside, and then call her guardian/parent to come and get her..

Anyone who has ever had a kid throw a tantrum, knows they do it for attention.. Take their audience away, and they ususally calm right down.. It's obvious that a 5'5" 170lb 11 yr old has some "issues".. Instead of escalating the scene, they should have just removed themselves..

Nothing was being taught during the fracas, so why not just take a "library break" with the class, and let her calm down..

[Hugabear]

75. Or maybe, we should just issue tasers to parents

After all, some people in this thread seem perfectly content with the idea of tasering children. You're absolutely right, children throw tantrums all the time, this is hardly something new. What IS new is the 'taser first' mentality, instead of trying other non-violent solutions.

[SoCalDem]

78. This mom never needed a taser..

The good old wooden spoon, held aloft was usually enough..

one pop on the upper thigh would break those "balsa-woodesque" spoons, and barely leave a mark, but the boys thought "the spoon" was a horrible weapon of mass whatever..:)

My aunt & uncle brought us a camel whip from Egypt, and we had it hanging on a wall..used to threaten them,,never used it though:evilgrin:.."Shall we test the camel whip?" was enough:)

[Pithlet]

103. Getting a bloody nose is unfortunately a hazard of the job.

Tazers should never be used on a child. Period.

[NeedleCast]

35. It's funny, but not unusual

On DU, cops are almost always assumed to be in the wrong. Many will pay no attention to the fact that this girl was the size of a large adult female for her height. They just see an 11 year old girl getting tasered by a cop and the knees start jerking.

[liberalhistorian]

53. Exactly. There's this strong presumption that

all children and teens are innocent angelic creatures who would never do wrong and, when they do, nothing should be done about it because it's always an adult's fault. That is bullshit.

[Egnever]

71. little bit of oversimplification there no?

what people are saying on this thread is that tasering an 11 year old is a little overboard.

No one is claiming her innocence.

[Egnever]

72. little bit of oversimplification there no?

what people are saying on this thread is that tasering an 11 year old is a little overboard.

No one is claiming her innocence.

[Egnever]

are you advocating for tasering anyone the size of an adult female?

Seriously?

[NeedleCast]

76. I'm Not sure I understand what you're asking

I'm not advocating tasering anyone regardless of their size and gender unless the circumstances dictate that it may be the appropriate action.

I am saying that this may have been such an occasion. I am not a police officer nor have I undergone any police training. I am ex-military and have undergone a good deal of combat training. I wasn't there and cant comment on the appropriate use of force. I do know, however, that anyone who has even a bare minimum of training in any number of martial arts is generally taught to take control of the situation as quickly as possible as to minimize the risk to other people. The officer made a decision and I'm not going to condem her for it - as so many here seem to want to do - because I wasn't there. Eleven year old girl of 85 year old grandma...if someone is acting violently in a public area where others could be at risk, the best course of action is generaly to disable the violent person as quickly as possible, preferably with as little force as possible.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

79. No, we think using a Taser was overkill.

[gatorboy]

107. Hey look! It's Captain "sensible"! The guy that thinks we all suck!

Tell us, Captain. Do Democrats still suck?


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=3976638


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=7031665

[LeftyFingerPop]

25. Breaking: Trained law enforcement official beat up by 11 year old girl.

What a bunch of shit. I do not care if she was 170 pounds. Eleven year olds are not anywhere near being fully developed. Hard to imagine that hand restraint could not have subdued this girl.

If the deputy was such a delicate flower that she could not subdue this girl, then she has no business being on the force.

Eleven years old for fuck's sake. Using a taser should be viewed as akin to using a gun.

Go ahead and flame me.

[Captain Sensible]

28. Breaking......

philboy such a hero because he never has to put himself in harms way for others.

[LeftyFingerPop]

29. Really? I haven't?

[Captain Sensible]

32. No. Can tell by your post.

tell me i'm wrong.

[LeftyFingerPop]

36. You're wrong. n/t

[Captain Sensible]

46. Wow soo much info there. I guess your a volunteer firefighter.

You ever call a cop to protect you?

[LeftyFingerPop]

49. No, I have not.

Why?

[Captain Sensible]

55. Because.

I guarantee if they had to taser anyone to protect you you would be singing a different tune right now.

[LeftyFingerPop]

58. They would not have to protect me from an unarmed 11 year old girl. n/t

[Captain Sensible]

59. Though so.

[LeftyFingerPop]

61. Did you mean "thought" so?

[Captain Sensible]

63. Yes. I am humbled by your grasp on the language.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Captain Sensible]

65. I doubt your busy.

[rubberducky]

80. I`m having such a hard time believing that you are still here on DU.

This person you are talking about is 11-years-old. This person is clearly NOT a terrorist, nor a person that can do you bodily harm. How in the hell can you defend tasing this child, unless you are a total authoriantin (sp). I have a 9-year-old grandchild, who occasionally has a very big mouth, But would I ever expect the "boys in blue" to TASE him? I would not rest until I had somebody`s hide. What the hell is wrong with your thinking. I have a hard time thinking that WE PAY THESE FUCKERS to tase us, our children, and anyone else "they" don`t agree with.

[NeedleCast]

81. But the girl DID do bodily harm

She punched the police officer hard enough to draw blood.

[rubberducky]

82. You seem to discount the fact that this child is 11-years-old.

If these officers cannot deal with an 11-year-old (IMHO) they should not be "in the line of fire".

[NeedleCast]

86. You seem to discount that she is Five foot five, 170 pounds

The girl I have been dating for a few months works with mentally handicapped children. They are, for the most part, very nice and cooperative as long as their routine is not disrupted and they are not faced with confusing situations. However, when one of them loses control, they can be very, very violent. I'm 5'11", 270 pound male with extensive martial training and had a 14 year old half my size knock me on my duff when he suddenly became violent. I've seen a 12 year old virtually destroy an ice cream shop. The point is that when someone is being violent, it often takes a violent act to subdue them and age should not be a factor.

The officer DID deal with the 11 year old. She tased her.

I am sure your grand-children are all paragons of virtue and you can't imagine them acting this way, but really, you weren't there and have no idea what level of restraint the situation called for. A taser is a weapon meant to subdue a person, not cause them any permanent damage. It is often why police officers are GIVEN tasers...because it levels the playing field in a situation where they might be physically over-matched and means the officer doesn't have to resort to pulling their considerably more lethal fire arm.

[Midlodemocrat]

100. Breaking. Captain Sensible

outed as a troll by DU.

And, FTW, hero, you have no fucking clue what others on this forum have done or been through, so why don't you STFU??

[liberalhistorian]

68. My (very liberal, very Democratic) mother

taught juvenile delinquent boys for nearly thirty years. She would be the very first to tell you that not all eleven-year-olds are angelic choir children. Not by a long shot. You do know that this is the real world we live in, right?

[Starbucks Anarchist]

84. Who the hell said they were?

And how the hell is a TASER justified in this case?

Why can't an adult officer physically restrain a CHILD?

[Marrah_G]

91. None of us were there.

We don't really know what happened. We are just reacting to a headline.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

98. But her argument was that all children aren't angels.

Which is a separate issue and still doesn't justify using a Taser on an unarmed child.

[qanda]

67. I don't agree with them using a taser on her, but for goodness sake

Why is it okay for anyone to punch an officer of the law? The person she punched was a female officer and with this girl being so large, the officer very well may have been overpowered. It sounds like this girl has some real issues which need to be dealt with outside of calling the law but once the law gets involved then they have to take whatever measures necessary to protect themselves. Why should that officer have to be subjected to being beaten up and bloodied without taking any action against the person responsible for those actions? If you ask me, the girl got off easy.

[Hugabear]

69. Again - who ever said it was okay to punch a police officer?

n/t

[qanda]

74. Then perhaps a better title would be,

"Girl who punched officer is asked to write a letter of apology" She wasn't asked to write a letter of apology for having a taser used on her.

[Dr. Strange]

95. That title would not have created the knee-jerking responses that the masses are so fond of.

But you are correct.

[LeftyFingerPop]

85. Alright, here is what should have happened...

The deputy should have cleared the classroom with the exception of the violent girl.

The deputy should not have approached the girl without first talking her down.

If you maintain distance, you do not get a bloody nose.

If you use talk first, you do not get in a physical altercation.

It never should have gotten physical.

I don't care how wild the girl got...remove people from the general proximity and do nothing until she is calm.

Yeah yeah...I wasn't there. But it is hard to see why the girl had to be physically engaged. Just get everyone the hell away from her, and try other non-confrontational methods first.

[Hugabear]

88. According to a poster above, she might have had a .38 hidden in her Hello Kitty lunchbox

So obviously tasering was the only solution. She is lucky they didn't call in the SWAT team and kill her.

Oh wait, that DID happen in another Orlando-area middle school not too long ago!

[Midlodemocrat]

102. Yup. As one who has dealt with violent and overwrought children

many times, this is absolutely the correct approach. The deputy's mistake was approaching a child in the throes of a meltdown.

[Pithlet]

104. Yes.

Tasering a child, even if they don't look like a child, isn't acceptable.

[Javaman]

87. And if she doesn't? does she get sent to a child chain gang?

what misery we have wrought upon ourselves.

[alcibiades_mystery]

89. COPY OF GIRL'S LETTER!!!!

Dear Mr. Vernon,

We accept the fact that we had to sacrifice a whole Saturday in detention for whatever it was we did wrong, but we think you're crazy to make us write an essay telling you who we think we are. You see us as you want to see us, in the simplest terms and the most convenient definitions. But what we found out is that each one of us is a brain, an athlete, a basket case, a princess, and a criminal. Does that answer your question?

Sincerely yours, the Tasered Girl

[Gwendolyn]

93. Since when do 11-year-olds attack LE officers?

That's the other side of the coin. Not that tasering was the answer but if you've seen the vid, that girl is fracking HUGE, and doesn't look her age. If the deputy was in the middle of restraining her and she went nuts, punched her and drew blood, I can see where it would get violent. I'm sure that kid can, and did, cause some damage. Tasering may not have been the best recourse, but it doesn't seem like one of those cases requiring real outrage.

[NeedleCast]

94. Thank You

Thank you for your objectivity and welcome to DU.

[Gwendolyn]

96. Hi!

:hi:


Just in general, I forgot to mention in my last post that the reason for the altercation was that this child had just finished pushing another kid into oncoming traffic. The teacher subsequently called her out about it in the classroom and that's when the child in question further lost control. They clearly thought she was a danger.

[Evoman]

105. Bwahaha...geez, I used to find cops scary. But now the wussbags use tasers on 11 year old girls.

Bwahahaha.

My grandma could have handled this better.