My week in Florida....a very enlightening trip indeed.

[NRaleighLiberal]

I really should get out more, I suppose - we live in North Carolina, but it is North Raleigh...and we spend lots of time in Durham and Chapel Hill, which, though not as blue as the New England we grew up in, is blue enough to tolerate. So this week my wife and I decided to drive to Florida to visit my brother and see my mom - and to take in a Red Sox/Tampa game while we were there.

So we start down route 95....past all of the South of the Border signs, into South Carolina - it started getting harder to find an NPR station that had any sort of objective talk (like Diane Rehm) as the left of the dial stations converted to fire and brimstone madness sermons. Into Georgia - by the way, the SC and GA welcome centers have Fox news of course (actually come to think of it, NC and FL as well). Then on into Florida - the billboards start showing a bizarre mix of ads for vasectomies (while you wait!), plastic surgery, XXX Girls! Girls! Girls! - intermixed with quotes from the bibles and ads for churches. Then a humongous confederate flag flying over Route 75 near Tampa. More and more right wing and religious babbling on the FM radio (we didn't go near AM of course). Hardly any Obama bumper stickers on cars (though I did get two very excited beeps and thumbs ups when a few cars noted my Impeachment, Bush = Fear, and Obama stickers).

Before the Sox game we went to a bar - Fergies - and ran into a fellow who writes guide books for Florida travel - we had a great chat, and ended up talking politics - we found we were fellow Obama supporters, but he whispered it, and said that it would be dangerous to make it widely known.

Anyway, I'm not going anywhere in particular with this except to say it really opened our eyes to be in really, really red areas - the bizarre mix of sex and God and shallowness. It make me wonder for our country - and whether we will ever be able to bridge the huge divide between the sane and thinking and the scaredy cat-fundamentalist, hypocrite republicans/conservatives.

So, all in all (despite watching the Sox get trashed), it is a great reason to get out and about and see what one is up against - this week it is off to do volunteer work for the Obama campaign and take part in grabbing our country back.

To Floridians who are here - did I get a stilted view, or is it indeed quite an odd mix of things there???

[elleng]

1. Interesting visual, NRaleigh!

I actually live in DC are, have #### npr stations there, but have been in s florida since april with elderly folks.

Palm Beach county has 3 npr stations! One of them calls itself 'new,' as it solicits the monied folks around here.

Hope to drive north in not too distant future, so will have to put up with your experience!

[glowing]

2. It would help if we could get some free merchandise on major corners of US 19.

A lot of people are broke or cheap in FL... people give away free t's at a club.. Need free merchandise.... AND I'm surprised the guy was whispering, this is O-town.. yeah there's a few assholes out there, but many are in support of Obama.

[Smarmie Doofus]

3. Don't think I've ever heard it summed up that well:

>>>>the bizarre mix of sex and God and shallowness.>>>>

I had a similar epiphany when I went to Disneyworld a few years ago. ( And I took a plane; but it seemed that half the white south was in greater Oralando that week.) Until then I'd never been south of Raliegh/Durham.


>>>and whether we will ever be able to bridge the huge divide between the sane and thinking and the scaredy cat-fundamentalist, hypocrite republicans/conservatives.>>>>>

Probably not... but do you really WANT to 'bridge the gap'? I'm ambivalent; would be nice if they grew up a little but real change seems a long way off. So from where I sit... and it's hardly nirvana in NY.... that would truly be a "bridge to nowhere."

[Neecy]

34. I think that's pretty much a common occurance

but it seemed that half the white south was in greater Oralando that week

I lived in Orlando for a year due to a job transfer, and it was the longest year of my life. A local referred to it as "South Georgia" when I first arrived there and that was pretty much true - lots of transplanted southerners live in Orlando, or at least did during the time I was there. I would guess it hasn't changed.

Coming from San Francisco I found it tacky and crass and there was nothing apart from Disney to do unless you left the city for a day at one of the coasts. When I went shopping it was like Mayberry - flower-print dresses, stuff so nasty you wouldn't be caught dead in it. I hated every second of it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

47. Wow

Orlando has a Democratic mayor...Out of five council members, who are elected by district, one is gay and one is African American...The Chief Of Police is African American...There are anti-discrimination laws based on sexual orientation on the books... Orange County which is the most populous county in Central Florida gave John Kerry a higher perecentage of votes than the rest of the nation, ergo:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presidential_election,_2004,_in_Florida

As for shopping the Mall At Millenia is in Orlando...Here is a list of stores:


http://www.mallatmillenia.com/stores/allstores.asp



When did you live here? In the 70's

[KathieG]

4. Sounds about right

I know the giant confederate flag you are talking about...I pass it when I go down to Venice to visit my mother. Our area (Ocala/Marion County) is VERY red, and you are right...you will pass a billboard with bible verses, then pass a billboard advertising a porn store, it is strange here...churches EVERYWHERE, but just up the highway we have "The Risque Cafe'" where you can have breakfast served to you buy topless waitresses. :shrug:

[tavalon]

40. I was raised in Summerfield

just below Belleview, and I remember that my grandfather told me to "just pull the Democratic lever" when I was about to vote the first time. The First Baptist Church of Summerfield was all Democrat back then but I didn't even know the term Dixiecrat and I would guess that same church is just as rabidly Republican now - that's what happened, the Dixiecrats became Republicans when the Democrats stopped being racist and religious enough for their taste.

I missed Florida for the first few years I was away, and then I went back for a visit and it took the shine right off. I don't miss it a bit and as my 30 year high school reunion looms, I'm not at all sure I care to face it anymore. I have a few friends I've lost touch with from high school but could I stand them now, I wonder?

[Errrica]

53. I pass all of those weird billboards

When I head North to visit my friends in Gainesville.
Bizarre...

[FLyellowdog]

5. No, You are "spot on".

I am from the mountains of NC and also actually lived in Chapel Hill for awhile (where our first child was born). We've been in FL more than 30 years, and it is almost ALL red down here. My husband and I joke (and weep) that we're probably two of only a handful of registered Democrats in our county. BUT, since the campaigning has taken off, we're seeing more and more liberal thinking people stand up for their beliefs.We get sooooooo tired of seeing cars with "W" stickers...and very pleased that we're not seeing quite as many for McCain. Yes, bible-thumping, gun-carrying, abstinence-only,prayer-in-schools, "I've got mine", bigoted-race mongering, "Keep your women pregnant in the summer and barefoot in the winter", gay-bashing Floridiots are all around us down here and we've just had to try to build a bridge and get over it. When we do find another intelligent thinker, we get overcome with elation. Maybe once Obama becomes POTUS, some of the right-wingers will learn what real men stand for and their ignorance will be diminished.One can only hope.

[MsTryska]

17. Y'all aren't seeing McCain stickers as much either?

I'm in a red county in Georgia - and i've seen 2 in the last 3 weeks. Last time around every other car had a W sticker. and a goddamn yellow ribbon.

[MamaDem]

6. Lifelong Floridian and I live in O-town and work for the mouse

There is a pretty good mix of progressives and conservatives around here - but it is fair to say that there are more conservatives = religion is very important to most people, and I'm not just talking about southern Baptists. I do have to say, though, that considering that in the more populous area - Orlando, Jacksonville, Tampa, Miami, Ft. Lauderdale - so many of the residents are actually transplants from other states (or countries) it is quite a mix.

I have been amazed with the energy in the I-4 cooridor for Obama. The ground game here is really amazing and I know there are all the naysayers, but I really do think Florida will be Blue come November.

[Lorien]

22. I've lived in O-town and worked for the mouse for almost 20 years now

Florida DID go for Gore in 2000, there's no doubt about that-and strong support from those in the I-4 corridor was a big reason why!

[lostnfound]

7. I miss my old Florida, which was predominantly down-to-earth Florida cracker

I grew up when it was a practical place with good government, the sunshine state. Running around barefoot in the sand under the australian pines (exotics which had unfortunately taken over), and drinking my first alcoholic drink -- a 'salty dog' -- prepared by some crackers, and trying to grab a couple of beers for them from the bottom of a cooler that contained live crabs. Not totally wholesome, but down-to-earth.

Then the big time con-men invaded, and when I've visited over the last 8 years I can't stomach the transformation.

[cobalt1999]

8. Me too.

My family has been in the state since before the Civil War. There are a few isolated pockets of old Florida, but they are fading away fast.

[JCMach1]

11. Not much of that world left.. grew up in Florida (my family arrived there in the 1820's and 1830's)

Even pulled some genocide time in the 2nd Seminole War...

But yes, that world is gone. God, I remember Orlando as a cow town of about 10,000.

[retread]

16. I am not sure when you grew up in Florida. However, I am afraid you

drank something more than a salty dog if you remember a practical place with good government.

[lostnfound]

24. LOL. Well, when Askew got the Sunshine Amendment passed

I was learning about government and taking civics. And IMO Bob Graham wasn't half bad.

I guess my civics class focused on the progress and not on the scandals that preceded it.

Compared to what FL has since Jeb and his successor took over..?

[tavalon]

41. How long ago?

That sounds like some of my finer times down in the keys. The keys have never lost their magic for me.

[lostnfound]

54. Those memories were from about 30 years ago.

I've spent 2 decades away. :(

[Edweird]

9. South Florida is different. You drove around rural 'red' hell.

Dade, Broward and Palm Beach counties. It's better.

[JCMach1]

12. South Florida= Concrete swamp...

Have never been able to get out of there fast enough.

Parts of North Florida are some of the most beautiful places on the planet... and some parts are damn blue.

The I-75 route is the worst of the Red... Lake City and Ocala and the worst place in the world (the Villages!) are all located along it.

[Edweird]

13. I have to admit I'm about to look for a piece of land in N. Florida

just to have a 'hideout' and a fallback. I grew up in Tennessee, so North Florida has a certain 'comfort' that I don't get down here. Well, that and Santos and Razorback and the TOE (mountain biking stuff). I am into the dark underground scene, and here in S. Florida is one of the best in the nation. It couldn't exist without a real 'live and let live' attitude, although Ft. Lauderdale is starting to really piss me off with their attempts the legislate fun out of existence. I like it here.

[JCMach1]

15. I have always hated Orlando... dislike it much more than that I-95 megalopolis

Having said that... my favorite spot in the north has always been St. Augustine.

[Lorien]

23. I live in Downtown Orlando; very blue and much more cultural

than most of the rest of the state. I stay away from the exburbs; nothing there but cookie cutter stucco homes and strip malls. There's an organic grocer, independent bookstore, outdoor theater, two pagan/ new age shops, Lesbian owned tea room, and a gay nightclub all within walking distance of my home. You can't say that for most of the rest of the country!

[JCMach1]

27. Must be developing culture since 2000

[Edweird]

50. I don't like Orlando or Jacksonville.

I like Ocala and Ocala National Forest.
That's where I'm looking.....

[Ezlivin]

38. We got 5+ acres in Inglis

It's about 90 miles north of Tampa (my "home" town) and it's infamous for banning the devil.

As liberal atheists we'll be making inroads into a heavily red area. We've fantasized about what would happen if enough eco-liberals moved to the area to "take it over" and insure the preservation of the surrounding forest preserves and waterways. A lot of people come to the area in the winter to see the manatees.

[El Pinko]

10. I took that drive up from Miami when I livd there.

And like you I was stuck by the weird contrast of fundie crap on the radio and churches everywhere, with XXX billboards all over the place.

Strangely enough, in decadent, sinful, liberal-democrat Miami and Miami Beach, I hardly ever saw smutty stuff on the street...

[JeffR]

14. "sex and God and shallowness"

This native Floridian reads that and feels terribly sad (and accepts it as being sadly accurate).

[renie408]

18. No, you did exactly what all northerners do when they drive through the South

you looked for evidence to support your biased view and you found it. We are all just a bunch of knuckle dragging morons down here, dontcha know? Yep, sex, religion and inbreds. That's all you find in the South. I think you should all just go back north and west and save yourselves. We will just have to struggle on without you.

[retread]

20. Let's let the Southerners speak for themselves. Florida elected Jeb Bush to 2 terms and STILL

gives approval in the 60% range.
Then there is:

Alabama 9/16
John McCain 64%
Barack Obama 34%
Unsure 1%
Other 1%

Georgia
Added: 9/18/08
John McCain 57%
Barack Obama 41%
Unsure 1%
Other 1%

Mississippi
9/17/08
John McCain 55%
Barack Obama 39%
Unsure 5%
Other 1%

South Carolina
Added: 9/18/08
John McCain 59%
Barack Obama 37%
Unsure 4%

[renie408]

35. Florida doesn't count. Nobody in the South thinks of Florida as a southern state.

For the rest, you got me there.

It just annoys the shit out of me that someone drives down a goddam interstate and stays in a tourist trap for a week and draws the conclusion from that that everywhere in the South outside of their little piece of heaven is a hell hole.

[NRaleighLiberal]

25. You sure you are in the right place at DU? Your response to my post is shallow and reactive -

our eyes didn't lie...I was relating what I saw. You sound like the problem that this country suffers from...incuriousness and blind reactivity. But thanks anyway - you confirm my suspicion.

[Baclava]

26. You judge a place by driving through on the interstate? Talk about shallow...

What about all those redneck shit towns in the Carolinas?

Oh lookie - another bash Florida thread.....how original.


Stay Away From FL! - we got gators and sharks and fucking stupid hick tourists, oh my!

[NRaleighLiberal]

29. Ah, more short attention span theater! I was sharing observations,

not making blanket judgements. Please read carefully my post before your assanine responses. Geesh. More data.

[renie408]

33. For future reference, you spell it 'Asinine'.

A disagreement with your assumption that the South is MORE about sex, religion and racism than the rest of the country based on your drive down I95 and a brief stay in Florida is 'more data'?? And you have the stones to refer to OTHER people's 'blanket judgments'?


Can I assume you are an idiot because you didn't spell one word correctly? No. I assume that 'asinine' is probably a word you have used in spoken conversation way more than in written and that you spelled it phonetically. I don't automatically make assumptions based on very thin 'data'.

[zanne]

39. So we should not believe what we see with our own eyes?

We should accept the "invisible" south that you talk about? Where is that place? Nobody seems to be able to find it.

[bedazzled]

19. it's not that bad in west palm beach - more obama than mccain stickers here!

i'm happy to say there are now some obama radio
ads here, and even with my limited tv watching
time (30 minutes or less a day) i've seen some
obama ads on tv, also.

and they're GOOD!

i'm happy to see he's trying to fight the
disgusting lies mccain is putting out.

i'm editing to add there are relatively few
stickers or signs for the presidential election
here. i've never been here for a presidential
election, but there are very few signs or
bumper stickers compared to new jersey...

[Lorien]

21. The further North you are in Florida, the redder it is

it gets blue as you head south. My area-Orlando-is very purple, but I think that's because it's full of transplants from the East coast and the Midwest (I only know of one native on my street, and he's a Dem). But yeah, up in North Florida/ South Georgia that's all you see; shooting ranges, strip clubs, and churches. And it's that way until you hit central Ohio!

[KG]

28. so, you know all about FL just driving through it. congrats!

:eyes:

[NRaleighLiberal]

30. Man, you people should get some therapy. I was relating observations.

Enough already! the few of you who are reacting in the way you are provide lots of info on what's wrong down there.

[renie408]

36. ROFL!!! Do you READ what you write before you hit 'post'??

You are quite the master of the snap judgment, aren't you?

[KG]

44. you asked for reactions, you got some. don't like 'em? tough shit.

[lynettebro440]

46. Do you ever drive through a ghetto and get the bigger picture

rednecks are more obvious then you think, and I wouldn't have gotten out of my car in northern florida, fuckers there are scary, just driving by. If the truth hurts....just sayin

[ThomWV]

31. For a man with eyes there is always a lot to see

You're damned right you can learn a lot about a place by just driving through it.

[mmonk]

32. Sometimes, the red stands out or is louder.

I'm wondering how much silent Obama support there is down there.

[davsand]

37. I always kind of saw Florida as being kinda like Illinois (or any other state.)

I think the rural demographic usually is gonna trend more conservative and a metro area is gonna run more to the left. Having said THAT, I will also say that the retirement crowd (snowbirds!) usually tends to break more to the conservative than does a younger demographic. There will ALWAYS be exceptions to this, and any time you make a sweeping assumption you will be proven wrong someplace along the line.

Most certainly, here in Illinois we have a sort of split personality when you look at Chicago voting patterns and compare that to the rest of the state. There are isolated pockets of liberalism downstate, but mostly you see everything south of I-80 tending to be pretty conservative when it comes to the voting booth.

The only real difference I noticed between Illinois and Florida (along with much of the rest of the south) was the increased number of churches. I don't think the South is more "religious" than the folks up here, I just think it is more of a cultural expectation to actually GO to church--thus you see more of them. (Again, any blanket statement will probably get proved wrong, and I expect that...) I have always kinda wondered if that different expectation about church activities is rooted in the people who settled these areas--an historical or ethnic thing, so to speak.

Anyhow, I think that any time you travel outside your usual haunts you will see stuff that makes you scratch your head. I also think that this particular election is gonna fall way outside the expected (and usual) patterns of voting and behavior. Areas that typically go fairly conservative may swing the other way this time due less to politics and mostly because of anger.

YMMV.


Laura




Before anybody gives me crap about how corrupt Illinois is, and how DARE I say we are like ANY other state: We do have a rep for being one of the most corrupt political scenes anywhere in the US--and if the number of indicted Governors is any indicator we really are pretty bad. I will tell you that I suspect that the cronyism and graft probably goes on everywhere but the voters just don't see it.

[Barack_America]

42. I've never found Tampa to be particularly red.

Too many transplants from Michigan and Ontario.

[flvegan]

43. Hmmm...I live in Tampa

and you're somewhat correct. There is an odd mix of billboards on the way here, and there has been that huge flag up for the past couple months. But, as I drive around, I see a LOT of Obama stickers and yard signs. Matter of fact, I've seen more Ron Paul stickers than I have McCain. McCain barely filled the convention center last week, and Palin is in town to speak at a senior center. Not exactly St Pete Times Forum, which is where Obama should set his sights to speak when he's in town.

Tampa also has 2 fantastic local public radio stations. 88.5, WMNF and 89.7, WUSF (our local NPR station). I think what you got is the superficial "feel" of the area, maybe, but I'm watching the Tampa area turn a better shade of purple as time goes on.

[fishnfla]

45. 104.1 FM, d'uh

not really a good post

[hannah]

49. florida

I live in South Florida.  It is very liberal, Palm Beach
County, Broward County, and Dade County. Jeb Bush couldn't win
here,so he changed the voting in all the counties. This place
is beautiful. We have nice beaches, if you have a chance to
travel by boat on the intracoastal, you can pull up the boat,
have a few beers and eat at alot of restaurants on the water.
Our weather is excellant. Very hot for the summer months, but
beautiful the rest of the year. There are alot of sandbars,
where you can pull up the boat, and just sit, let your dog
play and meet alot of people.  We've seen Mantatees, Dolphin,
and huge Manta Rays swimming with us.  
Key West is Awesome!!!!!  Oh, and by the way, most of us are
voting for Obama/Biden.     

[DemocratSinceBirth]

48. If North Carlina Is Soooooo Progressive

If North Carolina is so progressive why did Gore and Kerry , respectively, run fourteen percentage points and eight percentage points better in Florida than North Carolina?


And if North Carolina is so progressive can you name one senator in the past fifty years that Florida sent to Washington that was an arch-segregationist like Jesse Helms?


If Jesse wasn't dead y'all would still be sending him to Washington...


People who live in red houses shouldn't throw stones...


Oh, Obama will do better in Florida than he does in North Carolina... Book it...

[onethatcares]

51. next time tune into 88.5 on your FM dial

and hear some of the best music and political discourse the planet has to offer.

Fergs is ok and there are alot of racist assholes here in St. Pete. They still try to keep "them" on the south side of town.

If you decide to visit again, give a shout out first. Peace.

[Errrica]

52. Pretty much.

That's Florida for you. I work part-time in a grocery store (good ol' Publix!) and the mixture of bumper stickers speaks volumes in itself... you'll have a McCain/Palin car parked next to an Obama car parked next to a pro-life car...
Lots of old fashioned Southerners mixed with young college students.
There's a strip club outside of my neighborhood... and about two miles down the road is a Catholic church.
Oy. Lol.

edit: spelling error, woops