Agree or disagree with this statement.... People with money & evolution

[liberalitch]

Money helps one survive/ defy evolution.... basically you have money you don't need wits you will survive.... agree disagree. discuss.

[billyoc]

1. Of course it does, what the hell does Natural Selection mean in a fucking gated community?!

:rofl:

[liberalitch]

12. Not much....

....pool side!}(

[canetoad]

2. Excessive need to acquire money

is, IMO, not evolved at all, but an aberration of the instinctual fear of starving over the lean months. Evolved is considering the good of society as a whole.

[liberalitch]

9. I guess what I want to know... is money a buffer to the end to evolve....

The status quo vs. (possibly) questionable time and circumstances of change?
Could "they" survive losing a home... living in a car, practice space?

[canetoad]

23. I don't think it is

How many times do you hear of self-made, or even inherited wealth being passed on to a kid who pisses it against the wall or shoots it up their arm? Hell, I know where this is coming from - even my parents told me I would amount to nothing because I was not materialistic enough!

I think you hear a lot about rich people, self-promoters. The quiet majority sit out their lives, rolling with the punches, adapting to changing situations. Adaptability is the key to evolution.

[liberalitch]

25. BUT.. without the money...

Do they have what it takes to survive... say a 1930's style ordeal?

[canetoad]

29. Yep, I see your point

not total destruction, but a need to be crafty - maybe a scammer, to survive in those times where the willingness and ability to do an honest day meant very little.

Maybe in this case adaptability means being prepared to do anything- whether you are overqualified or not, to earn a living. Being prepared to move around, rely on your wits, without taking advantage in a way that will harm others.

[HeresyLives]

3. A fool and his money

are soon parted.

[cobalt1999]

4. Evolution is all about passing on your genes.

Since poor people tend to have more children than rich people, the poor are actually evolutionarily more successful (strictly speaking).

[liberalitch]

6. Statistics, while I know you are right, would validate our success in a...

...revolution. Yes?

[Beregond2]

5. Depends.

If you made the money yourself, you certainly have a certain kind of smarts, smarts that will help you survive in a capitalistic society. But I have long held that that kind of intelligence implies nothing about a persons abilities in any other area of life. Making money is a special "knack" unto itself. If you inherited the wealth, then you may or may not have also inherited that skill with money. If not, the wealth certainly isn't going to improve your survival skills any. But of course, wealth equals power, and power is always useful for survival.

[liberalitch]

7. But even then... don't you "lose" certain...

"appendages" that enable your survival in favor of throwing your money @ the problem.
Isn't that essentially the problem w/ being poor? Not HAVING money to throw @ the problem?

[canetoad]

8. Remember when all those end of the world

day after the nuke drops movies? Around that time I recall someone saying that in this situation it is the street people who will survive - they are adaptable. I kinda agree.

[liberalitch]

10. amen....

but that doesn't mean you have the option to be a poorly read ignorant fuck.... You have to be sort of like the monks copying books and shit... or what else. Wilhem Dafoe in mean streets?

[canetoad]

14. True liberalitch

a swag of virtual money does not a good, learned and gracious human make.

[liberalitch]

15. Ever see The Name of the Rose?

Great flick.

[canetoad]

17. Many times

Then I bit the bullet and read it. Eco is not an easy writer to read, but it was an experience not to be missed.

[liberalitch]

19. I think of "those"people whenever I think of the whole...

....Neocon... how the murderer detested the contortions in the faces of people who laughed. I think people are most attractive when they are laughing.

[canetoad]

26. they are

the genuine amused, delighted, tickled pink laugh is the best thing in the world. The commentary on the dourness of religion, its inflexibility struck me most. Fuck it! People should laugh more :rofl:

[gravity]

11. You need wits to keep and make money

It is still evolution, it is just the rules of the game have changed

[liberalitch]

13. .. I think "and KEEP money are the key terms here."

... Karma or coincidence? Money ill gotten is harder to keep?

[gravity]

18. You can't con an honest man

Integrity is a key characteristic of a self made millionaire.

[liberalitch]

22. Can money MAKE an honest man a dishonest one?

How does that impact his ultimate ability to survive?

[gravity]

28. No, money just brings out your true character

If you were faking honesty but lack true integrity, it could get the best of you.

I don't know how this affects evolution. For there to be natural selection, some folks in society have to die early or not reproduce. With our modern society, this generally not the case.

[Gwendolyn]

16. Define "defy" evolution...

Biologically speaking, evolution is neutral and doesn't care where it goes. If there is a "greedy" gene and enough greedy prickolas manage to propagate their kind we will evolve into a greedy population. Why do you think there are so many republicans? Fortunately there are some blessed with the "empathy" gene as a counterbalance and those with it haven't been wiped out yet. :)

Actually you could say that in the modern world, amassing money requires the wit that the hunter would have needed to survive in the distant past.

[liberalitch]

20. The evolution of society....

... where one day it's all good and the next you're standing outside a bank wondering what the fuck happened.
Perhaps there is a better term than evolution. Are you a scientist? I'm a historian... not by any means a scientist.

[Gwendolyn]

27. Lol, no scientist here, FAR from it!

I'm more into the writerly trade, but have been doing some reading lately. :D

I think you're referring to Social Darwinism, if I'm not mistaken.

But anyway, even if the world collapsed tomorrow, it would be hard to say who would survive. A homeless person well-versed in life on the street, might have a fatalistic tude and just lay down and die. A formerly wealthy person with cutthroat tendencies, might eat his neighbor and survive. A brilliant, but sad physical specimen like an absentminded scientist, might use his gift of intelligence to build a city.

[canetoad]

21. My point exactly

But what do you think of the hunter who kneecaps his neighbour so there is no competition for game then fills up the back room of his cave with more dried meat than he could possibly need?

[liberalitch]

24. Which then rots and no one can eat?

.... he will be okay for a bit. BUT Ultimately....
I tell you what... I saw a show about some sort of primate (I was stoned, I won't pretend that I know what type of animal.. they were in India.. I know that)... The primate community ACTUALLY DEMOCRATICALLY chose a leader after things started to suck after the young dumb buck killed the older nicer, smarter... "monkey" (whatever). He had located then next to a pond where monitor lizards ate three babies and they couldn't find any food.

[Gwendolyn]

30. I think that impetus was built into us...

But there does seem to be some biological reason why people are empathetic. That when we were still wandering around hairy, in loin cloths, humans realized that survival depended on community and sticking together. There have been studies done to determine why people sacrifice themselves for others... it's believed that trait has been bred into some of us. Even that "feel good" feeling you get when you help some old person cross the street is a chemical reaction in the brain apparently. Something that's evolved over time.

[canetoad]

31. Ok, gonna lay this on you

The Principle of Reprocicity.

A community of people can grow to about 30 in number and everyone knows who is or isn't pulling their weight. The community can self-correct, administer punishment, etc. Over that number, people can 'vanish' into the mass and scams and dishonesty are born. Humans can't cope with that, so they call it Karma, whatever. What do you think?

[Gwendolyn]

32. That sounds about right...

But tribalism evolved with people splintering off into smaller groups that could be controlled through some hierarchy.

Then I think some safeguards were also built in, like the invention of Gods. (Is that what you were talking about when you said "Karma"?) Whatever unsocial behavior primitive man couldn't control in larger groups, his Gods would take care of under the big fear umbrella. Those evolved into the mono-theisms with all of their rules. Think about how much influence the Big Three have over the world today!!

This is all just my dumb theory though. :)

[johnfunk]

33. WHEN EVOLUTION IS OUTLAWED, ONLY OUTLAWS WILL EVOLVE

:evilgrin: