USA... Ulcered Sphincter of Ass-erica......

[marmar]

V for Vendetta fans....Maybe Prothero was right:


"I mean what else can you say? Here was a country that had everything, absolutely everything. And now, 20 years later, is what? The world's biggest leper colony. .....
It wasn't the war they started. It wasn't the plague they created. It was Judgement."

[melody]

1. Bullshit

Don't confuse the government with the country.

Our people are now under the fist of a military junta and we're no worse ... or better ... than any other country.
My people have been here for 350 years. This is the only ethnicity I have. I cherish my country and its roots.
Anyone who doesn't is going to automatically pick a fight with me.

[marmar]

2. Ummm....chill.

Perhaps you should watch the movie and you wouldn't take this post so seriously.

[melody]

3. You chill and don't make a post like that in the first place if you don't want me to respond

I don't see 99% of popular films. I'll pass on that one, too.

[marmar]

4. Sure. Whatever you say. Have a nice night.....

n/t

[El Pinko]

12. V for Vendetta is a good film.

And there is some truth to the statement that in addition to our murderous, corrupt government, an awful lot of regular Americans have become decadent and corrupt themselves. I see it all around all the time, from the dads and moms starting brawls at Little League Games, to the greedhead flippers, to the lying scum that so often represent so many industries from insurance to real estate to finance, to the unctious self-satisfied yuppies I overhear in restaurants going on about how we need MORE TAX CUTS.

It is NOT just the government, although the fish does rot from the head down...

[melody]

13. I won't speak to people's prejudices. I merely judge my own.

My generic comments are in the other post.

[Oregone]

6. No worse or better?

Now thats bullshit. I guess Ive "automatically" picked a fight with you...

Come on now. The masses of every region in the world are not homogeneous in all aspects. There is massive ignorance and anti-intellectualism in many regions of the USA that has no equal in some other nations (though this itself may be a product of a government orchestrated environment, it, nonetheless, exists).

Why is this election so close? How is it a candidate that is infinitely better than the other in many aspects, who has the advantage of a failing economy, and unpopular war, etc, is not doing better in the polls? Why is it that it takes an unprecedented economic disaster this week before Americans finally start to prefer him? Look at opinion polls in the world..No one except Americans, and a handful of other countries, significantly consider McCain as a viable contender.

If you can't recognize a problem, you sure as hell can't fix it.


Obama win preferred in world poll
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7606100.stm

4 to 1 margin. People in Brazil are naming themselves Obama on the ballot to win their election. He is popular everywhere. No one in this country Im in hears a damn thing about McCain (they all think Obama has it in the bag), because he is so popular here.

Other countries contain citizens with uniquely different world-views, and feelings on what "community" really is. Of course, you cannot quantify, objectively, "better" and "worse", but these different ideas, policies, world-views produce significantly different consequences (like Health Care), which has "bad" and "good" effects on the community at large. What is the empirical effect of world-views/attitudes of the people of the USA, as a whole, on their and other's communities?

[melody]

7. There are so many generalizations in your statement, I'd be hard pressed to count them

I'm not getting back into this. Let's just say, I have a Lakotan friend who has heard more ignorant crap from the mouths of European tourists than you can imagine. "Ignorance" is a relative thing.

To say more people of any single nationality are "stupid" is racism. It's not just morally wrong, it's logically wrong and evidentially indefensible. The same truth that strikes down the white supremists will nullify generalizing about ANY nationality ... American, French, etc, etc.

[Oregone]

8. But regarding the question I posed...

Since you cannot objectively quantify "better" or "worse", what are the empirical effect and real-world manifestations of the American's world-views, attitudes and ideas (as a whole) on their and other's communities.

Now compare and contrast that to other countries.

I believe you will find drastic differences. By no means, are the people of ANY two countries homogeneous in all aspects, nor are the manifestations of their beliefs/attitudes/views.

BTW, "racism" is not the particular world you are looking for (perhaps discrimination).

[melody]

9. Racism IS the word I'm looking for if not the world

I'm a writer and my background is in cultural anthropology. "Race" has nothing to do with skin color. It's any group of similar things categorized together when used in this instance.

I don't have to qualify anything I've said. Extreme claims require extraordinary evidence (to paraphrase Dr. Sagan). You've said that a large segment of Americans would be qualified as "ignorant" when compared to all other countries. I cite our common humanity and neurology as reasons for my assertions. How do you defend your statement while not also proving the argument of a racist?

[Oregone]

10. Sorry, I never considered Canadians to be a different "race" than Americans.

My mistake.

I defend my statement that Americans can be considered to be "better" or "worse" (different) than other nations (which is unquantifiable statement you made in the first place) due to the manifestations of their beliefs/attitudes/world-views being different that other country's.

Do other countries have us much gun violence? Are other countries continuously considering appointing such right-wing extremists to govern them despite their constant failures (some are)? Is every country in Iraq? Does every country with the means to not have Universal Health Care?

As a whole, is what is happening in the US no "better" or "worse" than other countries? How can you separate the people from what is happening in their very communities? Especially if they, themselves have a say in their policies and elected leaders?

[melody]

11. Canadians are a different "race" in this instance ... so are northern US people and southerners

In fact, there's more difference between US northerners and southerners than between Yankees and Canadians.

All manner of people with biases declare one group or another inferior. They trot out the same arguments --
standardized tests, etc, etc, but those same contentions can be negated just as yours about Americans can. Yes,
African-American students don't score as well on standardized school testing. Why? Obviously because the tests
were created to measure skills sets of European-Americans. Why are women not as "specialized" in terms of cognition
and therefore "inferior" to the more "specialized" male brain? Obviously because a balanced brain is its own kind
of specialization but the mind, when wanting to prove one's own "superiority" will often overlook those factors.

You cannot state that a given body of knowledge must be in place to qualify one as "intelligent". This argument against the "Americans are dumb" mindset is the same one I teach to bigots when refuting their prejudices. If you negate one, you negate the other. White anthropologists used to say that indigenous cultures were less intelligent because they didn't know the things
Europeans consider "important". Why do you assume the body of information Europeans embrace to be "intelligence"? When we
knock Americans, we're making the identical idiocy of the white anthropologists who saw in themselves the "ideal" of intellect
and dismissed anyone as stupid who didn't live up to their own point of view.

All humans are equally gifted and impaired. We express that in different ways. If you need to believe some Americans are
inferior to all humans, go right ahead. But down that road is genocide and you get there a lot faster than you can ever
imagine. Just ask my grandmother's people (the Cherokee).

Have your last word and let's end this discussion. I've made my points here so many times, I'm beginning to feel like I'm
speaking in tongues. Believe what you wish to believe. The truth remains what it is.

[Oregone]

14. "All humans are equally gifted and impaired. We express that in different ways."

Even to accept that as a premise, attitudes, knowledge, ignorance, philosophies, opinions and world-views are not "gifts" and can be regionally influenced. These factors cause empirical effects which can be positive or negative to their communities, and communities at large.

The summation of a society/country is more than their genetics, traits, and "gifts" (which I am not calling inferior at all). These other factors steer nations from the micro level (community & personal life) to the macro level (national policy), determining the course of the people as a whole. And the course of Americans is not the same as others, period.

By trying to turn this into a "racism" argument and winning the PC war is a weak approach, when you can simply look to the real world manifestations of the "American mindset" (which is by no means homogeneous in itself).

[El Pinko]

15. Nobody's calling anyone "inferior".

I personally said that many Americans have become decadent and corrupt.


But who's to say that the trying times in our near future won't help forge them into better, kinder stronger people of great character?

I believe that most of us have a great deal of POTENTIAL for change and improvement.

We just haven't been made, as a nation, to express that potential in recent decades.

[Oregone]

16. By invoking the terms "inferior" and "racism" you win by default via political correctness.

Yes, no one said they are "inferior", but there are many "inferior" mindsets within America, judged such by their real world effects that are negative as a whole upon the American community (and others).

[El Pinko]

18. Yes just like the people who come here saying with a straight face that all whites are "privileged"

How long would a post of mine here last if I posted that ALL (insert minority name here) were ( insert adjective here)?

Even if it was something positive, I'd be lambasted for making broad generalizations, being racist, you name it.

But when the PC mandarins make generalizations, it's just hunky-dory.

[melody]

17. And any gross generalizations are baseless and useless.

Many Americans have become lots of stuff ... as have many French people and Japanese people and Portuguese people and on.

Beyond that, I've nothing more to say in the thread. I've said it all before.

We have a real problem with individual voters being poorly informed but we don't have numbers for how many they are. We
also have a voting system that is easily manipulated. It's difficult to tell where one ends and the other begins. Until
we have evidence, I prefer to be a liberal in my approach and not authoritarian.

[angrycarpenter]

5. We are critical of our government

But you would be hard pressed to find anyone here who hates America. I for one love My country. I would not be here if I didn't. We are trying to make it a better place to live. Posts like this just feed the trolls. It is where they get the idea that we are anti-American.

I liked the movie but I think you missed the point. After all of his speeches about freedom his true motive was revenge.