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Not just the rich....very real people, very real anxiety, very real retirement losses

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tpsbmam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 10:39 AM
Original message
Not just the rich....very real people, very real anxiety, very real retirement losses
I was a little horrified when I read one of http://robertreich.blogspot.com/2008/09/coming-bailout-of-all-bailouts-bill.html">Robert Reich's proposals. He continues to be someone I turn to for economic sanity. Most of his proposals make a lot of sense to me, but this one blew my mind, "Investors in these institutions lose the value of their equity." Now, maybe I'm misunderstanding what he's saying here -- economics, the stock market, etc are way out of my field of expertise (like many here) and I typically run around looking for explanations of terms, etc. Anyway, the sentiment that I see repeated here a lot focuses on the rich assholes that caused all of this -- fair enough and I agree about them. But stock market loses are soooooo not just about the rich! In one way or another, this is about all of us!!


Number of Americans with retirement funds invested in stocks, mutual funds tied to stocks, bonds, etc:

Despite efforts by financial services firms to better reach and serve Hispanics and African-Americans, only 32% of Hispanics and 54% of African-Americans are invested in an IRA or 401(k) plan, whereas 72% of "general market" consumers are, according to research by Synovate.

Non-qualified plan ownership of stocks of mutual funds was even lower, with only 18% of Hispanics owning these and 33% of African-Americans, versus 60% of the general market.

..........


From the http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122083623096608799.html?mod=googlenews_wsj">Wall Street Journal:

a) But as companies sought to hold down costs, more and more froze the old-fashioned plan and went solely with a 401(k). "What didn't anticipate was the erosion of defined-benefit plans," she says. "They never conceived that the 401(k) would be the only retirement plan that companies provided. That's what we economists call 'unintended consequences' of a law."

Almost three out of 10 employers use contribution escalation -- the boosting of the percentage of an employee's pay that is directed into the 401(k) -- in conjunction with automatic enrollment. Many aim to boost contributions over time to 8% to 15% of pay.

b) The percentage of employers who automatically enroll participants has almost doubled since 2005, to 34% -- but given that "most plan sponsors implement automatic enrollment only for new hires, participation increases will occur gradually," Hewitt concludes. On average, 78% of eligible employees participate in their companies' 401(k) plans, up marginally from 2005.

c) An analysis by the firm of target-date funds from a range of mutual-fund companies found that allocations to stocks for employees 10 years from retirement age varied from 40% of a fund's assets to 80%. For employees about to retire, stock allocations ranged from 20% to 65%. The data in the report is based on 22 different fund providers, each having about five to 10 funds.

d) Among investment options, U.S. large-cap stocks are most commonly offered across plans. What category comes next?

A. Target-date funds
B. Intermediate bonds
C. Small stocks
D. International stocks

ANSWER: D. U.S. large-cap stocks are offered in 98% of plans, followed by international stocks, in 97%, Hewitt says. Small-cap stocks, in 89% of plans, and intermediate bonds, in 88%, are third and fourth most common options.

.................

Just http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122178285175454631.html?mod=googlenews_wsj">one person's comments about how she's been hit -- there are thousands of them out there I'm sure: But for many others, the tumultuous events unfolding this past week added to financial strains that have been piling up for more than year. "It starts to make you sick," said 52-year-old Mandisa Lewis, of Maple Heights, Ohio. After losing her job as a secretary, she said she had to tap into her 401(k) account this summer to make house payments. The recent financial news only makes her more anxious: "It gets to where you cry a lot at weird times."

...............

Just a tiny taste of recent pension fund losses -- these retirement fund of teachers and other state employees, not rich Wall St. brokers. All of the pension funds say they're okay and the losses are a tiny fraction of the funds.....now:

1) Vermont. Vt. pension fund lost $6.5 million
Vermont’s pension fund lost about $6.5 million in the plummeting stock values of Lehman Brothers and AIG, the state treasurer said this week. The loss is a small sliver — about 0.2 percent — of the fund’s $3 billion portfolio.........Since December 2005, the state pension fund lost $4.2 million on American International Group Inc. stock and $932,000 on Lehman stock. These are loses that have been “locked-in” because the stocks have been sold at a loss, Vermont state Treasurur Jeb Spaulding said.

2) New Jersey. State Pension Fund Loses 2.9 Percent in Fiscal Year

3) New York N.Y. State Pension Funds Face Lehman Losses; New York's pension funds for state workers and teachers face several hundred million dollars in losses from Lehman Brothers' collapse, and both have a large stake in troubled Merrill Lynch & Co., which agreed to a buyout by Bank of America.


4) Florida. The Florida Retirement Fund lost five (b) billion dollars in value since Friday as US stocks continue to plummet. The state treasury also lost millions in write downs when Lehman Brothers declared bankruptcy. As Whitney Ray tells us, the losses are just a small portion of the state’s 140 (b) billion dollar investment pool.


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fed_up_mother Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
1. I'm very worried about our 401k
Our budget is very tight, so just about all of our savings is wrapped up into our 401k. With the company matching program, it's how we can afford to save more.
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tpsbmam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. You're not alone.....
It was designed this way -- welcome to the Republican's idea of the "ownership society," one designed not to protect all of us but to make them rich.
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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. A friend of my sister's...
talked to her financial adviser last week and he told her to move her 401k investments around. She got busy for a couple days and put it off. She checked back and found she had lost $6,000! I didn't have much in mine, but it's likely gone by now. :( I thought 401k's were supposed to be relatively safe!
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Mari3333 Donating Member (158 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
2. thanks for posting this
i am one of those retirees thats getting hit hard. hunkering down.
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enlightenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
5. Ah, but I've been reliably informed by a DUer
that if the little people have lost their shirts it's because they failed to manage their investments and know exactly what was going on with their 401K's and pension funds - so it's their fault (and they're stupid and probably all Republicans anyway).

:sarcasm:

Good post. Thank you!
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. How has that DUer saved up a sufficient retirement portfolio or did they start on 3rd base?
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enlightenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I have no idea.
I made the error of disagreeing with the assessment and was painted with the same brush (stupid, etc) so I took my ball and left the thread.

Some people's kids . . . :eyes:
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
6. I wanted my husband to move some of his 401K overseas just to spread the
risk, but the only off-shore investment offered by his company's plan was into derivatives. That was not going to cut the risk! I imagine a lot of investors are like us, tied into a company sponsored mutual fund which means that in fact we have very limited control. This is just one example of an on-going problem. Individuals, companies, government bodies and unions all invest money to develop a pension fund. Everyone wants a good return. It's ironic that the very people we give our money to are the ones who are shutting down manufacturing in the US to get a higher return overseas. Kruschev was right, we really are selling the rope used to hang us!
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Actually my understanding is US stocks this year have faired better than overseas except for Japan
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
7. It's not that simple. "Market value" and "market capitalization" are statistical myths.
Look ... let's say a few funds own 95% of a company's stock and *I* own 1%. When I sell half of my shares at a high price, then those few funds get to say "all of our stock is worth the same as what TahitiNut got for his." This, of course, is a myth ... since the value of any stock is only what someone else is willing to pay ... and what someone was willing to pay for the FIST share sold is a LOT more than what anyone could get by trying to sell ALL the shares ... since there just ain't that many people willing to BUY.

So, the point is that there's a Grand Canyon between the pretense that all shares are 'worth' what ONE SHARE sold for ... and what someone would actually get if they tried to sell all those shares.


This is ESPECIALLY important as the 'market' is more interested in speculation than long-term ownership. Some historical "original intent" of ownership in a business enterprise was (1) preserve the value of capital, and (2) take a small cut of the enterprise's profits from labor as 'tribute' for letting that enterprise USE the capital. Let's emphasize the idea that capital is actually being PRESERVED. Property, plant, and equipment (the manifestation of capital: the means of production) is maintained and replaced and the VALUE preserved by taking some of the revenues produced by labor and plowing it back into such expenses. So, after that expense (which SAFEGUARDS the owner's assets), labor is 'compensated' and other operational expenses paid ... and what's "left over" is called profit. Whose profit? How much should go to the 'owner' and how much should be 'shared' with labor? After all, the owner's assets have already been preserved. By any measure, the owner has done better than tucking the cash into a mattress where it might get eaten by rats.

We've gotten to the point that we somehow 'think' that an ownership entitlement is even greater than in the days of the plantations. People don't even challenge the idea that the owner gets RICH doing NOTHING when the employees EARN a lot. It's bizarre.


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juno jones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
11. My mom lost everything when Enron crashed
The state of IL's retirement system was heavily invested in those fuckers. Wouldn't be surprised if they'd gone and re-invested in these clowns.

Tying retirements funds to unregulated markets does not seem to be a sound policy.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I agree. Why in the HELL are they gambling with peoples retirements? WTF?!
I think the entire stock market is nothing more than a gussied up Las Vegas.

That retirements have been entrusted to the stock market scheme/scam in the first place is shameful!

What the hell ever happened to just simply saving your money for retirement?! :grr:
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
13. You guys didn't really think you'd be allowed to "cash out" and get your 401-k money and
Edited on Sat Sep-20-08 02:58 PM by SoCalDem
the "profit" on your homes...did you??

It's all been a scam to keep us paying in for decades, since they yanked away real defined benefit pensions.. They had to time it just right, so there would be maximum input...but also before the Boomers all hit them up for payouts..

Had SS money been forced into the scheme, the bubble might have lasted a bit longer...
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