Palin versus Biden Debate

[ravencalling]

Hands down, from an issues, experience and intelligence standpoint, Biden will win any debate with Palin, however this is not an issue driven country, at least in many areas right now, even though we are suffering the worst financial meltdown since the depression.

Yesterday I overheard co-workers discussing Palin. These are women. They didn't speak to ANY issues regarding Palin, simply that to them she is "Real", not a "Phony". As I think they relate to her MORE when they find out she HAS issues or problems. I know, crazy.

Anyways, if Biden creams Palin, which he will, I am worried about this female sympathy reaction. Which is crazy, and stupid I know. But I remember similar reactions regarding Hillary. When a strong man debates a woman, even a very strong woman, it almost looks like an unfair fight, because it plays to our deeply held emotional gut reactions regarding sex and sexism. Especially if the woman shows any sort of weakness. Biden comes on strong, as he should, but look..

Palin is not up to this debating Biden. We know this. It's going to be a massacre. In this country of emotional immaturity, I consider the idiots voting against their best interests due to their media supported ignorance as being a huge debacle because in their ignorance they have allowed and continue to allow the collapse and destruction of the United States. They threw themselves into the volcano of sacrifice to the upper 1% long ago, along with their children, grandchildren and in the bargain all of us as well.

I believe we are going to win this. But after the debate, I will not be surprised if Biden is actually demonized for his intelligence, experience and his understanding of the issues. Remember all the negative media regarding Obama's so called arrogance towards Hillary? And here, we will be like Yeah! He Won!.. Then we will be like WTF when the Media hits.

Someone please tell me I am wrong.

[Sal Minella]

1. You're right -- when he rebuts any of her assertions with facts, he will be seen to be brutalizing

her or smearing her or something -- big nasty mans picking on wittle Sarah -- my grandmothers did NOT campaign for the vote so we could have THIS on the ticket, I'm sure.

And then if he holds back on crushing her with facts, the media will accuse him of a "weak response." Grrrrrr.

[tishaLA]

2. "soft bigotry of low expectations"

[monmouth]

3. I think you're wrong and as an intelligent woman I would be insulted

if Joe were to treat her any differently than if she were a man. Please, don't underestimate the intelligence of women. It is well known amongst the population that we're smarter than most men and think with only one head!

[dennysp]

10. That Only Applies to Women Who THINK, though,

and, believe me, I'd put that only in the mid 30 percentile!

[ravencalling]

11. as another intelligent woman

I agree with you. However, I have been subjected to so many remarks from quite a number of women who I do not consider to be air-heads or rubes. And THEY are not discussing issues.. but fashion and stereotypes.

Now, if we are saying it is educated versus ignorant reaction, regardless of sex, then my hope is that we have more educated out there voting. That is my sincerest prayer and hope.

[monmouth]

13. You and me both.....n/t

[theoldman]

17. Although I appreciate your humor, I do not remember any study

that showed women to be smarter than men.

[monmouth]

23. My findings over the years have concluded that a study is not required...n/t

[Sal Minella]

20. The comment isn't about the overall intelligence of women as a group -- it's about the observed

(lack of) intelligence of one specific woman.

People seem to be generally aware that Dear Sarah is none too bright -- but that doesn't flip into believing that all women are stupid.

[yy4me]

27. Well said and agree. So do many other women to whom I

have spoken. Not to challenge her would be allowing her and her party to win on foolish grounds.
A qualified woman, yes. This joke of a Governor, no.

If Biden doesn't come back at her with gusto, I will not be just disappointed, I'll be angry. Any debate is about issues, not about gender. This series of debates is critical to the nation. Palin is not qualified and Joe needs to let her know that we all know it.

She is an insult to the political system. Not just to women, not just to Americans. She is just not experienced.

And don't say Obama isn't qualified. His resume is 10 times as powerful as hers. Skirts don't lead, people do. I am a woman and I'd go to the moon before I voted for her or her grey headed buddy.

[monmouth]

29. Good points...n/t

[ravencalling]

33. I would be very disappointed as well as insulted if Biden

did not debate Palin with the gusto you describe. I am not suggesting here that he should not. What I am conveying is the fact that we are dealing with an element that does not play fair and will use every dirty tactic in order to win.

Is Biden up to it? Yes!

But in my mind it still comes down to how many gullible sheep there are in this country and how easily or not easily they will be swayed by the inevitable media manipulations.

[iamjoy]

4. You're Missing Something

I don't agree that Biden will "cream" Palin. Remember that she was a beauty contestant. I don't say this to be snide, but to point out that she is very poised. Pageant contestants are evaluated on it - the ability to maintain grace under fire. So, even if she doesn't know a lot about an issue, she can still deliver a cohesive response. It will be total malarkey - but it will sound good at the time.

Then, there is the double standard that is not directly related to her being a woman. If Joe Biden makes one gaffe, gets one small fact wrong - the MSM will pounce on him. Palin only has to hold it together (see comments on poise above) and she will be praised for sounding confident and assured. Even if Biden doesn't make a serious gaffe, the MSM will talk about how that's no less than you'd expect from a man who has spent nearly 30 years in Washington.

I guess I share your concern, but don't see it as a strictly gender thing. People like the underdog. They also have lower expectations for Palin.

[DeeDeeNY]

36. This beauty contestant's poise didn't help

Her stupidity still showed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww

[babylonsister]

5. I think the gloves have to come off; this country is facing some

crucial times that demand a firm grasp of so many issues. If people feel that Palin is being picked on because she comes out of the debates looking ignorant, they need to grow thicker skin.

[RazBerryBeret]

while I think you are right in your description of SOME women

but not all. I work in a large corporate environment. women do not (in general) play well together.I'm a woman and I've often wondered why that is the case.

I believe that many women have witnessed a woman who gets ahead for the wrong reason--we've all seen it. We resent the hell out of it. we know that when she fails it will be a reflection on all of us. I want her to fail, but I will regret what it will do to the next woman who runs for pres or vp.

[notadmblnd]

37. I agree with you. We are our own worst enemies.

Palin will get no sympathy from women who feel they are her equals or superiors. Only those who perceive themselves as old, dumb and frumpy might sympathize with her. Those are the one who may feel they need to protect her from the mean bitches.

[gateley]

6. This has been discussed several times here.

Biden and Obama know what they're up against, and know that the criticizers will be waiting to swoop. Don't worry about it - they know what to do. They're pros.

[KansDem]

7. I thought the same thing...

But we must remember it was the governor who compared herself to a "pitbull." And, if you liken yourself to a pitbull, you can't expect adversaries to go soft on you.

If McCain/Palin should win in November due to the sympathy vote, then we're more screwed up as a country than I thought imaginable...

[dennysp]

12. We are more screwed up than any of us think, though.

I think they will pay close attention to how she beat her competition in the Alaska governor's race pretty closely. But as for how people will view the debate, take a look at how many women already say they "admire" her! Ugh!

[ravencalling]

21. Exactly!

I am subjected to a number of women who say just this, and I imagine that attempting to change their emotional outlook on life would be futile to say the least.

[dennysp]

8. That's the World We Live In....

You lose when you win. It appears that we (Progressives) are struggling against a criminalized machine, organized crime, if you will, with the MSM as it's PR front. What's the best way to penetrate it, and reach the average, ordinary citizen?

[AlinPA]

19. The media will decide who "wins" the "debate". That will be measured by one-liners and sound bites.

You can bet Palin is memorizing a lot of them.

[Indenturedebtor]

39. Ding ding ding

And to the OP: Obama is polling way better with women than men at the moment. I agree that your scenario here is quite possible, but Palin is already going to win the debate. McBush will win his as well. The script for the post debate wrap up has already been written I'm sure.

[ravencalling]

34. that is a tough question..

Most of the mis-informed that I know of are quite comfortable with the internet, so it is not their age or lack of access, but this is not where they get their information, unless it is some right-wing forum. They go to work every day. They never read anything. They watch FOX news. That's it! They really don't have time for anything else. And they will vote based on a notion, any notion that appeals to them and to which they feel gains them acknowledgment and agreement with all of their similar thinking buddies.

[napi21]

9. I trust Biden to measure his tactics to deal with that. But I think you

are too concerned about lost causes. Any women who are still enthralled with the Barracuda will NEVER vote for a Dem anyway! Obama could have chosen Hillary for his VP and those women would have said "Hillary, the older and more experienced woman, was harsh and vicious with poor Sarah!"

Give it up and let them live in their own little world.

[ravencalling]

15. Can't give it up

when we are also forced to live in their little world.

I am hopeful and cheered because I see that Palin's popularity has crashed. But still worried that we have not seen the last of what the Media can do.

[napi21]

22. Have you forgetten that Joe has debated several different women

on the Senate floor for a number of years already? Have you ever heard anyone say "Damn, Biden was being sexist, or unfairly hard on XXXXX?" I HAVEN'T! I didn't say he was going to give up ANYTHING! A PRO measures their tactics based upon the opposition at the time, and if you think Joe doesn't already know that, you're underestimating Joe!

[obiwan]

14. I can hardly wait for the Biden-Palin debate...

...more fun than shooting fish in a barrel. More fun than squishing tadpoles. More fun than...

[dkofos]

16. They got it wrong, she is a REAL PHONY!!

[AlinPA]

18. Biden will scare a lot of 'muricans because "he is too smart" for them. There is a strong

anti-intellectual/anti-education population in the US. They want dumbed down one liners and sound bites around "easy to understand" things like flag pins.

[ravencalling]

26. I know it sounds cynical but the dumb downer doh-de-dohs ..

will suffer the least when their livelihoods and their country is gone. I picture these gleeful little wide-eyed numb-nuts cheerfully jumping with the rest of their lemming ilk, enjoying their last minute camaraderie. The rest of us, if I may be so bold.. will be at the front of a bayonet in contrast. Sometimes I really wonder what the best strategy is in this environment.

[MzNov]

24. Give Biden some credit would ya? He's a professional with

a great personality. She's an ass. Why are you so worried about what "they" will say? Don't you already know?

And give women in this country more credit too. Of course Palin is going to get votes. But we're going in the right direction with Biden and Obama. So let's just all chill out and quit worrying about what it's going to look like. Haven't you seen the shift in poll numbers?

[begin_within]

25. The day after, it will all come down to the "one-liners," and she's busy memorizing hers now.

The "one-liners" will be portrayed as the "highlights" of the debate, no matter what else happens. If she can just get those 6 or 7 one-liners out, even if at inappropriate times, she will be declared the "winner" no matter what else happens - even if Biden debates circles around her.

[AlinPA]

43. That's the way it works. The media will decide. "Debates" are a sad joke.

[etherealtruth]

28. Gov. Jennifer Granholm

My understanding is that Gov. Granholm was going to participate in "practice debate" sessions with Biden .... in order to to prepare Biden to not respond in ways that are perceived by the public (the public at large)as "sexist," condescending ... thinking back to perceptions about Al gore when debating the Chimp.

[ravencalling]

30. Excellent!

[kitty1]

31. The nly difference between Palin and Cheney; Lipstick

[kitty1]

32. I"m sure Cheny will give her talking points on BS and gall

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[immoderate]

40. Hi, and welcome to DU.

Thanks for providing us with an example of nonsensical "talking in circles." You are impressed by class rankings, but you didn't mention that Barack was top of his class at Harvard Law School. You also don't know what oxymoron means.

I'm wondering what experience and common sense Palin would draw on in your hypothetical debate with Obama. Remember, she had to hire a city manager to run Wasilla because she was incompetent to run a town that has fewer people than live on my block. All her "accomplishments" are political -- getting elected. She has done nothing remarkable in governance.

You use the term "liberal" as if that is an automatic denigration of any response. You should look up that one too. And while you're at it, look up conservative. You'll find that it's not supposed to be a synonym for "snake oil salesman."

Palin, unlike your Mensa friend, has not achieved knowledge of even one topic that I can tell. I'm sure she would be as good a president as any average beauty queen.

So you come to a liberal website, and your complaint is that we don't like ideas that are anti-liberal? For you, we'll drop the "oxy-." Why don't you explain why it was brilliant on your part to vote for Bush -- twice?

Enjoy your stay.

--IMM

[MiniMe]

38. It's not about who really wins, it is about the spin afterwards

Hannity et al actually spun that * won the first debate in 2004, that was the one that a lot of people thought ^ wore a wire and he ws terrible.

[ThomWV]

41. I think there is still something deep within all of us that respects intelligence

And so I expect Biden to sway quite a few voters.

[Pharlo]

42. Actually, I've been finding that women I talk to recognize her for what she is....

It's the MEN who seem to think that 'Poor Little Miss Sarah' is getting picked on by everyone. Maybe a misplaced old fashioned sense of 'gallantry'. I don't know. But, it is annoying as hell.

But, those are my observations from the people I deal with on a daily basis.