We've been backed into a corner.

[Subdivisions]

The Money Masters and the BFEE has masterfully backed us all into a corner.

If we lobby Congress to reject this new bill, which will lift $700 Billion out of the pockets of hard-working Americans, and Congress does not pass it, and if the financial system implodes (and you know they'll do it), then the Democratic Congress will get the blame. And the voters will exert their rage at the box office.

Otherwise, we have to allow the authorization of potentially trillions in debt that our great, great granchildren will still be paying. Meanwhile the fat cats retreat to their castles in the sky in Dubai.

We are in BIG trouble.

[RagAss]

1. They had a plan and they had the power to execute it.

As usual, we're fucked again !!!

[jwirr]

2. I think that congress will have to approve of some kind of bailout but

they do not have to rush into it and they can demand some qualifications be added. Put the damn ball back in their court. Yes we will but we want guarantees.

[Indenturedebtor]

4. Guarantees nothing. How about zero interest on any of these mortgages we're buying up

As it stands they're going to take my money in the form of taxes and charge me interest when they let me borrow it from myself.

[Captiosus]

5. Agreed, I see no reason why we have to "accept" the first thing

thrown on the table.

There's enough time for a solid debate on this bill and proposals for better bills than an original knee-jerk one that continues to destroy the Legislative branch.

[Subdivisions]

6. Please, show me examples where the Democratic Congress went

against bushco on anything. The criminal traitors will get exactly what they want and they will run off to Dubai and leave us dead busted and broke, starving and dying of disease.

[Waiting For Everyman]

28. They overrode his veto last May on the Farm Bill to close the Enron Loophole.

[Indiana_Dem]

3. I agree. We have no choice.

Obama will have to make cuts for things just to get us out a LITTLE bit! My husband said he thinks this is a way that we won't get national healthcare.

I say Obama will have to make some unwanted decisions. There will have to be cuts somewhere. But I feel he won't let the important things be cut to the small guy. I think some of the cuts will have to be to some of the states and the congressmen(women) who want things like studies for certain things. However, I think things like infrastructure will be passed because it creates jobs. Hopefully, it will be part of the green jobs he wants to create to help communities with mass transit and for the auto industries to create more fuel efficient vehicles. Also for credits in green building and appliances. I hope those things will look like an asset in the long term.

I don't know how he will do it but I do have faith that he would do his best and be better than McCain about it.

I'm sure he will implement stricter regulations on those CEOs and banks. That will help. It might slow the economy with less credit but at least I think he will keep things afloat. I hope.

[The Traveler]

9. I think most people here realize I am a defense hawk

but, really, there is only one thing to do ... we gave to cut defense spending to the absolute bone.

We are going to have to retreat from Iraq (should have a long time ago), but more controversially we will probably have to retreat from Afghanistan. Other permanent deployments (e.g. Korea) must be reconsidered.

New weapons system development must be deferred. We must be careful to preserve enough R&D capability that we don't fall dangerously behind, but we can do that while still slashing new weapons development budgets.

We're going to have a to take a hard look at reducing force structures.

Clearly, we cannot afford military expenditures of these magnitudes if we are having to bail out the investment class.

Trav

[Subdivisions]

10. I could go for some isolationism at this point. n/t

[The Traveler]

21. Me, too! And I think under the circumstances

it might be the very best strategy.

Peace,

Trav

[Waiting For Everyman]

29. And totally overhaul the privatized contracting procedures.

For one thing, as Boeing showed, American jobs don't even get preference. That has to stop. I also just read that someone (I forget who) will be starting major hearings on Iraq waste, that would help.

[shraby]

12. The Dems can add perks for main street as well

as penalties for the fat cats. Bush can veto it, but then he is the one who looks bad.

[coalition_unwilling]

26. Obama should screw his courage to

the pticking point . . . and come out for an immediate 50% cut in the defense budget.

[backscatter712]

30. Not if he plays his cards right.

Remember the L-curve.

He's promising tax cuts for the middle class and the working class - everyone making less than $250k per year, because he knows where the real revenue is when it comes to taxation - from soaking the rich. The wealthiest 1% own 38% of the assets in this country (probably more than that.)

It's time to eat the rich.

Get rid of all the corporate tax breaks from the Bush years. Raise the capital gains tax for those who make more than $1M in investment income. You know where to look, and there's plenty of wealth out there, and plenty of it can be taxed.

Find a way to make it happen, and there's plenty of revenue out there for universal health care, great schools, science, rebuilding infrastructure, paying down the national debt, etc. Of course, it's hard to make it happen because the evil billionaire demographic in this country has great lobbyists...

It's about time we have a progressive, rather than regressive tax system in this country.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. You truly believed the RNC and The powers that be collapsed this on purpose

you really do?

May I suggest a healthy readying list into why 1929 happened... and you are telling me they also wanted that collapse...

:banghead:

[Subdivisions]

8. I'm open to some schoolin' since I hardly understand wtf is gonig on.

Gimme yer best shot.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. Start with Howard Zinn and his history of the United States

His chapters on the Great Depression would be instructive (especially since we have about a week to get boots on ground to prevent certain sections of the act they want to pass.

But this is the direct result of RIGHT WING, FREE MARKET policies that started to take form under Ronald Reagan, and have continued, almost unabatated since... yes that includes the Clinton Years.

That is why about five years ago I said on this place that the fundamentals of 1929 were firlmy in place

Let me see

Cheap Credit... check (on both crisis)

A credit bubble ... check

No regulation, or little regulation to prevent investment banking from buying oh house loans, check

The pattern that we saw leading to both 1929 (and 1870 by the way, trickle down was first used as a term by Grant IIRC) are the same patterns leading to this mess... exactly the same patterns.

No, they didn't want this. The 1870 led to a LIMITED reform... which were overturned very fast leading to the robber baron era

The 1920s led to the crash in 1929... and the New Deal, which were a collection of laws basically legalizing what labor, for example, had been fighting for literally for generations. like the right to organize

The right started to fight those "commie laws" starting in 1947 and it is literally culminating in the expected result.

But they didn't want this to happen

Like the extreme left that always tells us the Gulags were the exception... and never happen, the right tells us that crashes are not part of the normal path of deregulation.

By the way, we have about a week to raise our concerns to our leaders and that includes taking to the streets...

There are a couple things in the legislation as proposed, that are chicago school... most of it is not and I hope this works, mostly I like eating... but Section Two (no bid contracts) needs to go

[Subdivisions]

18. In that case, and in lieu of further reading on the subject, yes, I think

it was engineered by the powers that be. I really do.

But, I'll do some reading on the history and let you know if I have an epiphany. :)

Chicago school...? I agree. And so devious.

[prayin4rain]

19. I think the article that ....

kpete posted is the best http://current.com/items/89322147_the_financial_meltdown_explained

:thumbsup:

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Then I think we have nothing more to discuss

I cannot allow myself to engage in magical thinking, and this is exactly what this is.

have a good day

[Subdivisions]

31. So, I guess there wasn't a single loan agent at Coutnrywide, et. al., that

made a loan to someone that couldn't afford it? Seems to me that this sort of lending practice is what got us to this point. To do that, there had to a be conscious effort to de-regulate the industry so that those bad mortgages could be used as collateral, didn't there? To me, that is a "plan".

Look, I've said I don't understand the whole thing and instead of sticking with me to help me understand how this wasn't all a big swindle (and I think you can), you give me the hand and walk away. Which is too bad because I have great respect for you, nadin.

[The Traveler]

13. It is possible

Read the "Shock Doctrine" yet? It kinda fits a pattern. And could it have been intentional? In an imprecise way, yes. If I set things up in a fashion similar to pre-depression conditions, I can safely expect eventually to create another crash. I might not be able to predict/control WHEN ... but the result itself is virtually assured.

:shrug:

Trav

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. I have and I am positive they will try to use it (see McCain privatizing SS)

but they did not cause it

It is a crisis... but they DID NOT CAUSE IT

It does not fit RIGHT WING market place ideology, er religion since it goes exactly 180 from what they believe in

[The Traveler]

22. The "true believers" are just dupes

they are NOT driving the bus. The guys driving the bus don't care how it happens just as long as they wind up on top. Ideology for these people is just a tool by which others can be manipulated to their purposes.

Keep yer powder dry, friend.

Trav

[Wiley50]

11. But This Medicine Is Worse Than The Illness

Please Read

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4048616

[Subdivisions]

15. Yea, Wiley50, I read that. We're screwn!!!1!!1 n/t

[JVS]

16. How about if we propose to move the tax-brackets back to Eisenhower's levels if they want this?

If this benefits the rich, let them go back to 95% marginals

[EFerrari]

23. When was the last time "we" lobbied Congress successfully?

I don't believe any more that they care in the least about what we want or think.

They need the appearance of governability and that's all.

[Trajan]

24. They SHOULD reject it ...

And REPLACE IT with something better ....

As someone already posted: We could use the money to buttress LOW INTEREST FIXED RATE loans to replace the ridiculous existent loans ....

AND: We can start fixing the problem by REPEALING the Gramm Act and restoring Glass Steagall ...

Let's toss in REJECTION of the tax cuts for the wealthy ....

THEN repeal the Bankruptcy bill as well ..

THEN ? ... PASS THAT LEGISLATION AND SEND IT TO THE PRESIDENTS DESK ...

If HE doesnt sign it .. then who gets blamed ?

We need to USE our power, and stop whining about being outflanked ...

[fla nocount]

25. I vote for total and utter collapse of the nations financial system as we know it.

Because it truly sucks the was that it is. Subsistence is a concept that I'm familiar with as is hope which is so much easier to spell.

It's like pulling off a band aid, the quicker the better. Screw letting it soak for an hour, it's still going to hurt and you've lost an hour.

[Waiting For Everyman]

27. Pelosi needs to play poker with a line drawn, and say 'Take it or leave it.'

She needs to first of all put the right program on the table, and then hold her ground. THEY have no choice... or they are lying about how dire it is.

Yes, she has screwed up pretty big until now. But she's interested in her legacy, that's the only thing that makes me feel a little better tonight. If she wants to save it, she has to be the hero and refuse this disaster.

Maybe she'll pull it off, maybe she won't.

Or maybe another Dem will realize this and lead the rest to somewhere sensible. I hope so. Scary times.

Yes we are in big trouble. There's a bullet coming at us to dodge, for sure. I'll do all I can about it and hope for the best. Like no doubt lots of others on here, I'm dodging my own bullet at the same time. My way of dealing with that is the same - I do the very best I can about it and then pray. Somehow, that has gotten me through 7 straight years of day-to-day bullets. But I know that any incident, including the one coming at me now, could be the first one I don't dodge. Even so, that method has brought me this far through that much, so I'm just hoping the same concept will work on this too.