Ford To Launch Car That Gets 65mpg --- Only In Europe.......

[global1]

Check out this article and look at the comments that follow: http://autos.aol.com/article/general/v2/_a/65-mpg-ford-fiesta/20080919094409990002

Interesting development and associated issues.

[Bill219]

1. It really amazes me...

How many excuses US automakers can come up with to not sell fuel efficient cars to us here in the US but have no problem selling them in other countries

[Kalyke]

2. Actually, we've been the problem - not the carmakers.

Very few people, up until about two months ago, would buy one. Americans wanted big trucks and SUVs.

That's changing, of course, but I do wish the automakers would make fuel-efficient cars that look better. I simply don't like the round, ball-like look of most of these cars. And, I'm sure many other Americans don't, either, which is one reason they won't sell. They have to be marketed to American tastes (outside of the fuel-efficency).

[Romulox]

4. It's the wind tunnel that's shaping cars like this.

"I do wish the automakers would make fuel-efficient cars that look better. I simply don't like the round, ball-like look of most of these cars. And, I'm sure many other Americans don't, either, which is one reason they won't sell."

It goes back to the consumer being a big part of the problem.

[Kalyke]

41. Please explain further.

The wind tunnel? As in a devise used to test cars for weather-related performance?

BTW, how is a ball more aerodynamic (read: fuel-efficient) than a more sleekly-designed car?

I'm not questioning you. I really want to know what you mean. It would be nice to know the answer to that question.

[fascisthunter]

8. That Depends on What Americans you are Talking about

While I do not doubt there are idiots who would rather burn more gas, so they can buy a status symbol on wheels, most prefer a vehicle that is good on gas. At least, that has been my personal experience in talking to people who range both political/cultural perspectives. The... "it's the consumer's fault" is a lie.The automotive manufacturers have been colluding with big oil for years... that's why we don't have feul efficient vehicles on our roads. They also pay off our politicians to keep standards low, so that they can sell gas guzzlers. One prime example is the tax incentive to buy a frigging HUMMER! The market in the US was saturated with large SUV's, with only a few alternatives... that was not just demand. It was a choice by the automotive industry and the main reason they are struggling right now.

[Romulox]

11. Carmakers don't make consumers buy SUVs. Nothing will change if we don't take responsibility

for our own choices.

Eliminate every SUV on the road, and America still has an energy consumption problem.

[KittyWampus]

9. Sorry, those SUV's were marketed to Americans. The desire was manufactured. It's documented

the Auto Industry marketed SUV's heavily and created the demand for them.

[Romulox]

12. Oi vey. More "but they MADE us want them!" nt

[KittyWampus]

16. I've posted any number of articles documenting this. Or do you believe products are marketed

using campaigns and spending millions just for the fucking fun of it?

Actually, I won't bother re-posting info because I'm not the one who looks foolish.

[Romulox]

18. Marketing is a far cry from "they MADE me want them!"

Virtually every product is marketed; marketing doesn't equal mind control, and it doesn't remove personal responsibility for one's own actions.

[KittyWampus]

31. If you don't think marketing = mind control, you need to get a clue.

You need to learn some basics about human psychology.

Then you need to learn some specifics about human BUYING psychology which is a subject entirely in it's own right.

It's how the Iraq War happened, why people eat crap called a McDonald's Big Mac and think it tastes good, voted for idiots like Junior.

People such as yourself are the Left's biggest problem.

Rather than understanding human psychology and the import of marketing and the need to package your message properly, you fluff your own egos on how well informed you are and how stupid everyone else is for "not getting it".

Seriously, you need to find some good books on human psychology and marketing.

And if you think YOU (and I) are immune from marketing and buying stuff we don't need and acting against our own self interest, look up "guerilla marketing" where corporations learn to use unconventional techniques to reach those of us who are well informed and less prone to traditional advertising.

[Romulox]

32. If what you say is true, how can you prove that YOUR P.O.V. isn't similarly manipulated

Ooops. Caught up in circular logic much?

"People such as yourself are the Left's biggest problem."

:rofl:

[Dr. Strange]

43. Checkmate.

Well-played.

:applause:

[sweetroxie]

49. I fully agree with you

And it is remarkable how "slow" and "dense" the left and the dems have been in figuring out that just about everything these days is about mental manipulation. We don't know how to use it, and we're still too naive about it to realize that those on the dark side (the right) will always use it against us.

[tburnsten]

54. I think honesty and facts

will get us further in the long run. Anything founded and populated purely with "mental manipulation" is bound to go down some very dark paths or crash and burn.

[tburnsten]

53. Post of the day!

[Kalyke]

40. Actually, tax breaks made us want them.

Companies received tax cuts to buy the monsters.

[ShortnFiery]

13. I'm one of those "very few people" who drove a VW Super-beetle 74' for twenty years.

In fact, I just purchased my FIRST NEW CAR in 1995, a Honda Odessy. ;)

There's plenty of Americans who would love to own a fuel efficient vehicle. In fact the 1995 Honda Odessy is "the only" 4-cylinder van Honda has ever made. Before purchasing in 1995, my brother censured me, "Wait until next year when they make the 6-cylinder models - it has no guts."

I'm here to tell you, 13 years later and over 140,000 miles, she's still running strong as well as scoring the MPG as a 6-cylinder Honda Accord.

I suggest, "Make the fuel economical cars available and they will be PROMPTLY purchased by the American People."

It's THE AMERICAN CAR COMPANIES' fault - 100%.

[Kalyke]

42. I don't buy foreign cars.

And, my husband has a German car that's a POS.

:shrug:

[DS1]

15. European versions of Fords have always been better

The exteriors and interiors have always been nicer, and far more efficient. It's not Americans who refuse to buy them, it's the same idiot fuckwit "executives" who refuse to sell them here. Americans, for the most part, have no idea how much better the Euro versions of Fords are. Probably because if they did find out all at once, there would be rioting in Detroit.

[Romulox]

17. They also cost considerably more.

For example, the US version of the Focus was "decontented" (i.e., the interior was cheapened) when it was brought to the US.

Why? Because Americans up to now have refused to pay $25,000 for a car the size of the Focus.

[jakefrep]

30. And if they won't pay $25K for a Ford Focus....

..They sure as hell won't pay $25K for a car SMALLER than the Focus.

Ford would lose their ass on this car if they tried selling it here.

[Romulox]

36. Well if Ford didn't MAKE you want a Nissan SUV so much, there wouldn't be a problem!

Er, would there? :silly:

[jakefrep]

55. No, Ford made me want a LEXUS SUV

None of that plebeian Nissan stuff for me.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

21. The interiors of new Fiats are better put together than...

...most American cars sold in America. It's freaking pathetic.

[Romulox]

35. Fiats are unmarketable in the US due to poor reputation. nt

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

50. That's kind of my point, though.

The new Fiats are better built than any American car I've driven in the past five years. And they're more fun, and less expensive. The point being that if a clusterfuck of a company like Fiat can build better cars than the Americans, then we are well and truly screwn.

[Lorien]

22. That's bullshit. I know loads of people-including myself-who were ALWAYS

practical and never slaves to corporate mandated fashions.Since the 1970's Ive heard "why can't they build cars with better mileage"? Young people in particular think both the Prius and Smartcar are "cool". It's only the lemming like right wingers in Stepford who buy into the 'we must own a big ass gas hog to look affluent" nonsense. Ford and GM have been spewing the "Americans don't want innovative, fuel efficient vehicles" lie for decades because gas guzzlers are more profitable for them and their fossil fuel buddies. But it's still a LIE, and the popularity of the Prius (backordered since it's introduction) proves it.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

25. It's more profitable because...

...Americans are willing to pay $40,000 for something that is essentially a $14,000 pick-up truck with a cap and some leather seats. Unsurprisingly, small cars are more popular, more highly valued, and thus more profitable in Europe. They also hold their value well, because people here will pay a premium for fuel efficient vehicles.

[Kalyke]

44. Not bullshit.

I don't own a gas guzzling SUV, either. However, take a look at your work's parking lot or the road or the supermarket. Fully 80 percent of what you see are trucks and SUVs and they WANT to own them. You do know the American public isn't exactly known for choosing smart over status, right?

FWIW, I drive an American sports car. It gets fantastic gas mileage because it's a manual.

[The Stranger]

26. No, the automakers have force-fed marketed the huge gas guzzlers to Americans, and that is why they

want them. They have even gone so far as to weave the notion of "security" into having a big massive, expensive chunk of steel, presumably driving down suburban roads and necessary to protect one from "terrorists."

[global1]

38. This Is Just A Marketing 101 Issue.......

if U.S. automakers wanted to sell more fuel efficient and smaller cars all they had to do was turn to Madison Avenue. They needed to tell a marketing story as to why one should want a smaller car and why the car looks like it does.

We Americans were marketed to the big trucks and SUV's by these companies. That's what Detroit wanted to make and sell - that's what we got. It's as simple as that. We American's can be convinced and sold anything. Case in point - look who we elected as pResident for the last 8 years.

[TreasonousBastard]

19. Did you read the article? $350 million to build an...

engine plant for cars people might not want?

Add to that the cost to rework the car to US safety and 50 state emissions standards and you got a big gamble.

[Lorien]

24. It's far less of a gamble than sticking with products they KNOW the people

don't want. How much was their last Federal bailout? American automakers are as out of touch as every other Republican. The Prius has been backordered since it was introduced. Toyota can't even move on to the next model because the demand is so high-and now they are building plants here in America to try to keep up with orders while keeping costs down. Ford is a ship of fools, and if they don't wake up they'll be sunk.

[TreasonousBastard]

39. And just how many F-150s and Explorers have been sold...

compared to Prius sales? It took Toyota how many years to make it 100,000 Priuses sold?

For that matter, how many Highlanders, Avalons, Tundras and Lexi have been sold compared to Priuses, or Corollas? Toyota is not the green company people want them to be-- they make cars people want, and people want Highlanders.

And did you know that Ford came up with the first, and still best, hybrid SUV beating anything from Japan? And that they have several very nice cars doing better than 30 MPG overall but nobody wants them?

It's only since gas prices hit the roof that anyone wants an econobox, and if gas prices stabilize, we'll all be back in big trucks again.

Remember, we went through this in the 70s when gas prices spiked and Detroit went all economy on us. As soon as inflation caught up with gas prices, everybody dumped the little shitboxes and went back to big iron.

Then Japan started selling cars, but fuel economy was still on the bottom of the list.

People SAY they want fuel economy, and always have, but look at what they actually buy to see how full of shit they are.

[Kalyke]

46. Bravo!!

:applause:

I like people who can turn the mirror around.

:hi:

[Lorien]

48. Nonsense. Toyota can't keep up with the demand. That's why they are building

more plants. If they produced as many vehicles as Ford did they would have sold as many. Half this country votes Democratic, so at least half the country is not comprised of brain dead ad buying slave-to-fashion lemmings. "Little shitboxes"? My parents drove their Toyotas for over 20 years while my friend's Explorers barely made it past ten. The Camry has been the bestselling car in America for over a decade; mine gets 32 mpg and is 14 years old without ANY major mechanical issues. And it sure as hell is NOT a small vehicle. Some of us are thoughtful and practical, while others are compensating for their sad shortcomings and killing the planet in the process.

[Romulox]

3. Ford is bringing a gasoline version to the US for '09; few Americans buy diesel vehicles

despite the fact that they have long been available from the likes of VW, Mercedes...

[TreasonousBastard]

20. It was only in the last year or so that VW and Benz...

got their diesels 50 state certified-- older diesels were grandfathered in but newer models had to go through the process. And it wasn't easy. And it wasn't easy to sell a car that's not certified in NY or CA.

Subaru has a nice diesel, but can't figure out how to pay the royalties on that catpee invention that gets you certified so we'll never see it, and I'm sure others have the same problem.

[UK populist]

5. I suppose that sounds amazing to you folks in the US but

We have had cars in Europe that can do an optimum of around 50-60 MPG for at least 10-15 years now.

[Romulox]

6. Remember that 1 British Gallon is worth 1.201 US gallons. nt

[UK populist]

57. I never knew that

Are you saying a US gallon is not 8 pints or 4.5 litres.

[Angleae]

59. 8 pints yes, 4.5 liters no

You use imperial measurements, we use something else and it is a bit smaller. 1 US gallon = 0.8326738 UK gallons. Your pints are also larger.

[madrchsod]

7. we do`t make the diesel fuel that it burns

aol news headlines are always misleading

[fascisthunter]

10. American Manufacturers have Colluded with Big Oil for Years... that's why

They all do actually.....it's why they fight against regulations that would prevent automanufacters from selling gas guzzlers in the US.

Watch, "Who Killed the Electric Car"

[Romulox]

14. This theory really isn't logical. Did GM *really* make you want that Lexus SUV???

Exhibit A:













:silly:

[Selatius]

23. Either way, your presentation is pretty damning as far as American tastes go.

In the US, bigger seemed to be better, at the expense of efficiency.

[Lorien]

28. But that's the Big Lie; we don't all have the same tastes

more than half the population DOES want practical vehicles!

[Selatius]

29. Yeah, that's true, but it only takes 30 percent of the population to make the rest pay dearly.

Just look at Bush's core group of supporters, who coincidentally number about 30 percent of the US population. As the cliche goes, the only way evil prevails is if good men do nothing. We let them hijack this country and turn it into a proto-fascist oligarchy.

[Romulox]

33. At least 2 of those vehicles were intended for the European market, fwiw...nt

[Lorien]

27. Those are butt ugly monstrosities

nope, I like to drive CARS, not land tanks. The only thing those lumbering pigs say is "I'm compensating for my shortcomings".

[Romulox]

34. Right. Which makes "the Big 3" all the more sneaky for making people want them!

Er, I think.

:silly:

[Lorien]

45. So, EVERY American buys the advertising?

I think not. go out into any parking lot and do a count. Half of us are Dems, so half of us are sensible.

[Romulox]

58. Sorry, was making fun of the "They MADE us buy an SUV!" crowd.

I own a 4 banger station wagon. Never owned an SUV (despite the mind-control/advertising impelling me to buy one!)

[KansDem]

37. Europeans EXPECT fuel-efficient autos. Detroit know this...

Detroit knows Europeans won't buy their cars unless they got really good gas mileage. Whereas, we Americans are stupid in wanting big SUVS, trucks, and Hummers. Detroit knows that and so do the oil CEOs. Why make fuel-efficient automobiles when dumb-fuck Americans will buy gas guzzlers?

[global1]

47. When I Was Growing Up The Impression I Got Of Europe Was That It Was Backward,.....

non-progressive and poor. Then when I was sent by my company to Europe - my eyes were opened. All my conceptions of Europe were blown away. In many, many ways I now think Europe is way ahead of the U.S.. They are smarted. They have learned to do more with less. They take care of their cars and make them last for years. Not like American's that have to have a new car every year. .

Roads in Europe are better and well-maintained. Take the Autobahn for instance. No potholes. They build roads right and build them to last. If a problem does occur - they take care of it just as fast.

Take round-abouts in the UK. They do away with stoplights that cause one to idle costly gas away. Also - I don't think I saw a single drive through business. The other day I passed a McDonald's drive through and their were 11 cars in a line just wasting fuel. I know whenever I bring up doing away with drive thru's here in the U.S. I get complaints from people that are disabled or from mothers with small children. These groups look at drive thru's as necessities. So I guess there are no disabled people or mothers with small children in Europe.

We've been conditioned/marketed in American to think big, wasteful, disposable and fast. The frenetic pace we are having to keep - is driving people mad. We don't know how to relax and enjoy life in the U.S. The Europeans have way more free time and fun and are more relaxed and cultured.

Don't see many fat people in Europe either. Because they don't sit on their dead asses in cars, waiting for food in drive-thru's only to have it go right to their ass after they eat it. Europeans know about public transportation and use it. Walking is a way of life.

We are just spoiled here and until one goes to Europe and sees for oneself how well those people live - we are blinded by the suggestion - that we are the only people in the world that have things good.

[KansDem]

56. I lived in Switzerland for several months during 1984-85...

I was amazed by its mass-transit system. Electric trains connected towns and cities; electric trams connected parts of the city. I would take a train in from the town I was living into Zurich; the train station was located in the middle of the city. Right next to it was the hub for the trams with routes going out in all directions.

It seemed like transit was the number one priority in planning a town; one could walk to the train station for almost every part of town.

And drivers' licenses were a privilege; not every Swiss I met had one.

Amazing. Europe is so much further ahead than we are when it comes to public services...

[Just-plain-Kathy]

51. What ever happened to the movie about what happened to the electric car?

For decades now we could have had cars with better gas mileage, but noooo. We can't have THOSE cars.

Steam engines and windmills have been around for over a century, are they manufactured here for us to use today? NOOOOOOO. Jimmy Carter installed solar panels on the White House, Ronald the clown took them down, and we never saw them again.

[Rambis]

52. I can't afford a car over 15,000$

So we could not buy any of the hybrid cars- We really don't have the money to buy a new car because we have no down payment. We need cheaper cars with good mileage under 15,000$ At some point we are going to have to buy a Carola because it gets 44MPG that is about the best we can do? fuckin ridiculous!

[Swamp Rat]

60. beep beep!

[Initech]

61. Ford, GM, and Chrysler are all run by fucking idiots.

Do they even imagine how much a car that gets 65MPG would sell in the states? :grr:

[Romulox]

62. Unlike AIG, Lehman, Merrill? Notice that the entire system is defined by failure? nt