Do you think EX-felons should be allowed to vote?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

The other poll, in my opinion, allowed people to hide an indefensible position behind a defensible one (although some were brazen enough to defend the indefensible). This one is more clear, and I'd like you to expound on your vote.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

1. Let me copy my post from another thread.

Prohibition is admissible only if they are actually imprisoned. After they get out, even in probation, they become part of society again and therefore should be allowed to vote just like anybody else, no other red tape hoops to jump through either.

[Ohio Joe]

46. Agreed

They did the time for the crime, I've always been under the impression that all rights should be restored at that point.

[spindrifter]

2. Why should someone with a felony conviction be

barred from voting for life? A felony could have been simply shoplifting as little as $250 worth of merchandise or passing a bad check for $1.00.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

4. There's this mental disease called punishism.

In which, when you see one of those "other," "inferior" people, you get off crushing that person's life in every way possible, and everybody who's appalled at your destructive psychosis is a "criminal lover."

[Two Americas]

35. that is it

The real criminals, in some ways, are the ones out running around free and calling for the infliction of misery and suffering on others.

[treestar]

68. good one! I was always looking for a word for this.

Why are these people not satisfied with the jail term as punishment? or the fines, or other penalties? They just want the punishment to go on forever, and with the person out of jail, where they are free to act on their resentments for being excluded. They had struck out against society once, and paid for it, so continuing to make them pay in these little irritating ways just makes it more likely they'll strike out again.

[raccoon]

45. Because many of those people are members of the underclass, and they will tend to vote for

progressive candidates. I do believe that is one covert reason.

[question everything]

3. Other. They should be able to vote inside jail

why not? Why should not prisoners be allowed to vote while servicing their sentences?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

5. That's not "other," there's an option to it!

[question everything]

9. Thanks, did not see it (nt)

[varkam]

6. In my opinion, even convicts should be allowed to vote.

Certainly would get rid of a lot of this "tough on crime" BS that politicians are so fond of that doesn't actually work.

It is not as though convicts cease to be American citizens, or that they are not afforded protections under the constitution. I think it is a strange thing indeed that taking away the right to vote should be a part of punishment.

[last1standing]

7. The answer to this poll lies in what one thinks the purpose of prison is.

To me prison should be used as an opportunity to rehabilitate (I know that's a dirty word even here at DU for some) criminals in order to prepare them for productive lives when they get out. To this end we should be encouraging responsibility instead of just caging them like animals for however many months or years then shoving them back onto the streets. To this end, voting would be a small but effective way of preparing them for the future and the responsibilities that entails.

There's too much bloodlust in this country. Everyone wants to punish criminals just a little more than the last person who spoke. :(

[varkam]

8. "Everyone wants to punish criminals just a little more than the last person who spoke."

Consider that stolen.

Oops! Theft is a crime!

:hide:

[last1standing]

13. LOL! Consider it a gift.

I'd hate to see you lose your vote. :D

[varkam]

55. Too late.

Them's the breaks.

[ColbertWatcher]

10. Depends on the crime!

If it's one of those victimless crimes, they should be allowed to vote in jail. if there was a victim to the crime, then after the sentence is fully served.

However, if they committed a "white collar crime" their rights to vote should be removed in perpetuity.

[depakid]

14. Define "white collar crime"

[ColbertWatcher]

18. When a white person who wears a suit at his job commits a crime. Just kidding.

When a corporate "titan" commits a crime, likely fraud.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

19. Jesus FUCK, that's the kind of attitude I rant about all the time.

Basically, you want to punish persons X, Y, and Z in every way possible because you don't like them.

[ColbertWatcher]

22. LOL! n/t

[depakid]

26. Have a look at the various statutes as to what constitutes a felony

or what might be considered "white collar crime."

[ColbertWatcher]

27. Unless you can post one, I'd rather not, thank you. n/t

[depakid]

29. Of course you'd rather not

Duh.

You'd prefer to act like a child- rather than look things up and think about things like an adult.

[ColbertWatcher]

31. You know what, this isn't a conversation or an argument, this is stupid. I'm done. n/t

[depakid]

33. Exactly

:hi:

[Freddie Stubbs]

53. White color crime deserves more punishment than murder?

:shrug:

[Thothmes]

58. So strip someone of their citizenship rights for writing a bad

check (white collar crime) and let someone doing 10-15 years for forcible raping a child get their rights back when they get out? Is that what you are calling for.

[kirby]

11. Voting is a RIGHT, not a PRIVILEGE!!!

Even for those wasting away in prison/jail...

[Captain Hilts]

16. It's not quite that clear...nt

[kirby]

17. Where in the Constitution is it fuzzy? n/t

[Two Americas]

37. yes it is

The right to self government. That is foundational and all encompassing and superior to all of our law. It couldn't be more clear.

[depakid]

12. Considering the sorts of things that pass for felonies in many states

it's impressive that anyone at all would want to disenfranchise people based on a conviction.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

56. See #45. -nt

[Captain Hilts]

15. If you've "paid your debt to society" you should be able to vote. It's INSANITY state govts. can...

prevent people from voting in a FEDERAL election!!!!

[Orrex]

20. Hell, in some political parties, a felony rap sheet is a requirement for office

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

21. If you think prisoners voting is 'indefensible' you're a fool

You can disagree with the clearly right answer.

You cannot, however, sensibly characterize the correct answer as 'indefensible' in the face of a series of defenses far superior to your own arguments.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

23. You got it 100% WRONG. It's the OTHER extreme I find indefensible. -nt

[Oak2004]

24. Vermont has long allowed criminals serving their terms to vote

and we seem to be doing pretty good for ourselves, despite our dogged pursuit of this extremist agenda called "democracy".

The rest of the country might want to try it out, too.

[Malidictus Maximus]

25. If they don't get to vote, why should they have to pay taxes?

"No taxation without representation" and all that.

[madmom]

28. I think everyone should have to take and pass a course in government before

they can vote, at least that way they would know a little something about how it works and maybe stop believing the faux talking heads.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

30. No. I'm kind of hardcore about this. Everybode votes, period.

Training wheels may be good for bicycles, not for democracy. If people are dumb, they should suffer the consequences of bad votes.

[madmom]

40. But why should smart people suffer because of the dumb, especially after the

republicans all out dumbing down of America? Besides learning never hurt anyone!

[Orangepeel]

32. Of course. the only crime for which one should lose citizenship rights is treason.

Otherwise, one is still a citizen and citizens have the right to vote. I can support restrictions against people actually in prison, on the grounds that they aren't residents of a community for which they'd be making decisions.

[readmoreoften]

34. Don Siegelman should not have been allowed to vote for himself while Rove imprisoned him.

That would've been a travesty of justice. :sarcasm:

[killbotfactory]

36. Even felons are still citizens

Every adult should be allowed to vote in a democracy.

[Pterodactyl]

38. Here's a stumper: Should they be allowed to own guns?

Should a felon be allowed to own a gun after the sentence and probation is over?

Whatcha think?

[madmom]

41. depends on the crime, if it were violent or not.

[Pterodactyl]

42. Hmm. Should the right to vote also depend on whether the crime was violent?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

44. That's stupid. A violent person doesn't endanger society by voting.

They DO endanger society by having a gun.

That said, maybe those ex-felons should keep the right to own a gun, but only for self-defense, and only at home, provided they live alone.

[Pterodactyl]

47. So *partial* rights are OK with you?

Is that person still "a violent person" as you call him after he gets out of prison?

If they can't be trusted with all rights, why let them decide issues of war, crime and education?

Also, should they be allowed to hold public office?

Get a security clearance?

Join the army?

Become a cop?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

49. So, if one right is abridged, ALL must be? Stupid II, the sequel. -nt

[Pterodactyl]

60. No, I think you should stop being stupid altogether.

Maybe murderers, civil rights abusers, tax cheats, Wall Street crooks and people who traffic guns into our cities shouldn't vote.

I think bad voting can be just as dangerous as letting them have government jobs or hunting licenses.

[madmom]

48. Not the same thing, would you let a violent person have a weapon which might

possibly be used against another person? I think if they paid the dues they should be able to vote, which has nothing to do with violent tendencies.

[Pterodactyl]

62. Nope. I don't think they should have guns or votes.

Just my two cents.

[madmom]

63. So should they be allowed a knife to cut their food?

[Pterodactyl]

64. Yes, of course.

They should also be allowed to have driver's licenses.

[treestar]

67. To the same extent that other people can, yes

Once you've paid the price for the crime, you ought to have the same rights as others. Why have people out there, who, for life, are excluded from stuff? They are only resentful. And out of jail! The idiocy of this stuff amazes me.

[TreasonousBastard]

39. The Constitution is not the right place to look for..

the right to vote-- remember that the country stated out with only white male landowners voting. It took a long time for black men to get the vote, and even longer for women. And those were by specific amendments.

So, since it's not clearly spelled out in the Contitution that convicts have an inalienable right to vote, we have to approach it from another angle.

Are convicts citizens? Is the right to vote an inalienable right of citizens? While giving up some freedoms of movement, association, etc, at what point do we stop stripping convicts of basic human and political rights?

And while we're arguing that, what is accomplished by denying a convict the right to vote? Is it merely punitive, or is there some argument that allowing convicts to vote would somehow cause societal problems so bad that we must stop them from voting before civilization falls?

Me? I say they are still citizens and still have the basic rights of citizens even while incarcerated. Anyone wanting to deny them the vote must come up with some damn good arguments before we start taking away basic rights.

(Not that some people seem to enjoy taking away rights as long as they can get away with it...)

[EstimatedProphet]

43. They'll legalize crime!

If they get together to vote they will vote to have all crimes legalized!

[cali]

50. Bullshit. My poll couldn't have been clearer.

I specified that I was speaking of those currently incarcerated. Try being honest. And yeah, I support my state's allowing felons to vote.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

52. Instead of "clear," I should've said "specific."

The thing is that allowing a convict to vote after the sentence is up, or even when in probation, two defensible positions, were lumped with denying the right to vote forever.

[knitter4democracy]

51. Yes. They should be allowed to vote while in jail, too.

The only way you should be able to lose the right to vote is if you renounce your citizenship. Period.

[Jackpine Radical]

54. I say give them the vote even in prison.

The real psychopaths aren't going to bother. There's nothing in it for them. The others would benefit from being given some rights & responsibilities. They need practice thinking beyond the narrow confines (no pun intended--don't hit me) of their self-interests, and as they start taking an interest in society, they ought to have the experience of having their opinions count. After all, how many of them do you imagine voted before they got locked up?

For most of you folks, the idea of a felon is an abstraction. Not for me. I have done psychological evaluations of a couple thousand of them.

[fed_up_mother]

57. All BUT violent criminals should be able to vote in jail

Violent criminals - aggrevated rape, murder, etc. - should lose all rights in jail, imo.

[bean fidhleir]

59. Yes, unless their offense was related to public office or voting

If they betrayed their oath or tried to prevent a fair election, they should never again be allowed to hold any office of public trust, nor ever vote or be involved in elections in any way. Those kinds of offenses are a kind of generic, "white-label" treason and the people who commit them should be forever beyond the pale.

[Pterodactyl]

61. Giving ex-felons the vote would cause a very big problem.

The problem is that both white color criminals and violent offenders don't respect other people. Which means they'd be more likely to vote Republican. That wouldn't be good.:shrug:

[Orsino]

65. How the hell are we going to reform America's culture of imprisonment...

...if its victims are silenced?

The right to vote should never be taken away, or suspended.

[treestar]

66. Yes, they should not be out of jail, yet excluded from society

Why do we need people free roaming the streets who have no right to vote, and thus no stake in civil government and social institutions.

This is stupid shit that the vindictive don't even realize could blowback against them.

The punishment is the jail term. When that term is over, they've paid. Society has exacted its penalty and tries for more at its own peril. Have these people knowing they aren't included but free? What are they going to do? Strike back, of course.

[slackmaster]

69. Yes

As soon as they are no longer under supervision of the criminal justice system, they should have ALL civil rights restored.