Universal Health Care is DEAD as a DOORNAIL

[El Pinko]

This ill-advised bailout for foolish bubble buyers and con-artist tycoons of Wall Street seems to almost be a fait accompli at this point, despite the fact that the vast majority of Americans of all political persuasions oppose it...


So now the national debt will go from a stratospheric 67% of GDP to a ludicrous 72%.


Now *I know*, and *you know* that a single-payer system like most other western nations have would cost MUCH LESS and would NOT add to the national debt.


And even the corporate-corrupted free-market plan we would be likely to end up with from Obama and a democratic congress would probably make little or no difference in the debt or the average person's annual expenses (taxes might go up, but premiums would go down in tandem).

But in the same way that the average American does not even understand a concept as basic as marginal tax rates (IE people actually think that the rich pay 33% on their income, when they actually only pay it on the top portion of their income, minus massive deductions)...in the same way as they don't understand that, they do not understand that universal health care would cost less than the present fleecing system.

And with the economic realities being what they are, if Mr. Obama chooses to make an ambitious health care plan a part of his platform, we will lose and lose resoundingly.

In their panic and fear, the people will be very susceptible to the argument that it will cost everyone an arm and a leg in taxes and will sink the economy (further).


He's going to have to go much more into a mode of "it's the economy, stupid" if he's going to win this.


So for the duration (yet again), I think health care is DOA.

Tell me where I'm wrong.

[W_HAMILTON]

1. This bailout...

...would be approximately 10 years worth of universal healthcare under Obama's system. If we can find a way to afford this, we can find a way to afford universal healthcare. Pulling out of Iraq and redirecting the funds towards healthcare would be another option.

Universal healthcare is quickly becoming my #1 priority. My hours are getting cut and I am worried about losing my benefits, and several of my family members have no healthcare at all, and I worry about them.

I doubt Obama would pull back on the idea of universal healthcare. If he is to win, and he doesn't provide universal healthcare during his first-term (or make substantial progress on the subject), I will not be voting for him a second-term.

Healthcare has become a ridiculous proposition, a large portion of the country lists healthcare as one of their most pressing concerns, and it's time to do something about it. If either one of these candidates are simply using it as a way to grab more votes, but don't actually do anything about it while in office, they will not be getting my support, ever.

[El Pinko]

2. The fact that you are right is irrelevant.

Obama has to phrase his ideas at a caveman level if he is to win.


The people will NOT understand. When McCain says "we can't afford a massive new federal bureaucracy", they WILL believe it, and no amount of explanation by Obama will convince them otherwise.

Naked fear always wins out over intelligent ideas in US politics. Always.


Maybe he can work on it once in office, but mark my words, he should NOT make it a centerpiece of this campaign.

[KansDem]

3. If we can flush $3 trillion+ down the Iraqi toilet...

We can afford universal healthcare.

I won't let anyone tell me otherwise...

[El Pinko]

5. Read the post.

Of course we can afford it.

At least in the sense that we can afford anything in our debt and war-bloated budget.

I'm talking about what the people will believe we can afford.


We had a gaping debt four years ago, but people weren't worried about it because inflation was tamed, gas was only so-so expensive, and the economy seemed robust, so people were not worried about the debt.


Now people's confidence in the economy and the government's ability to manage it is seriously shaken and getting more tenuous every day.

It doesn't matter that universal health care would save Americans billions of dollars per year and LOWER our per capita health care costs INCLUDING taxes.

I'm talking about what Joe and Jane 6 pack will believe.

They will balk at any sort of health care plan right now.

Obama needs to convince people that if they vote for him, they will still have jobs a year later.

[izquierdista]

4. Here is where you are wrong

Thinking that bills have to be passed and laws signed to achieve Universal Health Care. The goal of UHC can be achieved by the mechanisms already in place: Medicare and the VA.

All that has to be done is to chip away the eligibility requirements, slipping in more groups of people like Republicans slip in an earmark, until ALL Americans are covered. First add veteran's spouses to VA eligibility, then veteran's children, then the parents. Then expand VA eligibility to "veterans" of all federal jobs, not just DoD. Then lower the Medicare eligibility age to 60, then 55, then 50, while at the same time adding dependent children up to 18, or 22, or when they graduate from college.

A determined Democrat as President could add so many people to eligibility that private for-profit health care could wither away like it should have a long time ago.

[El Pinko]

6. I hope he tries something like that. I but I also hope he doesn't campaign on it.

It's a losing issue at this point.

[izquierdista]

9. The less said, the better

Don't let Harry&Louise know, and they won't have anything to bitch about.

[shimmergal]

11. Good idea!

I've long thought we can only get universal health coveerage in via a Stealth Plan.

Actually, I think some parts of your suggestion are already operating. At least my daughter recently discovered that she and their two minor children can get covered by her husband's veteran's status. Of course he's classified as totally disabled. Even so, it took a lot of research to discover they could be insured that way.

[Thothmes]

12. VA resources are already stretched thin due to the number of Veterans

it has to tend to. Without a massive building program there will be not beds in hospitals or clinics for the "newly eligible". Large numbers of physicians, nurses, lab tecks and support people will have to be hired to support the growing population of "newly eligible". VA program is paid for via appropriation by Congress. The Congress will have to spend mega billions to absorb all of the "newly eligible". Don't see the plan as very workable.

[izquierdista]

13. Republican defeatism

Are you sure you are at the right site? This is Democratic Underground, as in Democrats who appropriate money for worthwhile social programs. Democrats who put working people like nurses, lab techs, and support people back to work with jobs programs.

I can see this idea working very nicely with all the things Barack has said on the campaign trail. Fuck the Repubs and all their defeatism, they aren't going to be listened to for years after what they have done the last 8.

[Thothmes]

14. Since when is pointing out a weakness in a proposal

Republican defeatism. IMO expanding the VA step by step is a very poor option. I would think incrementally increasing the Medicare program into a Nation wide single payer type of program is a far better alternative. People are already use to paying medicare taxes. Over forty years, I have had occasion to deal with the VA medical system. Yes, it is no direct cost to the user, but I personally would only rely on the VA as an absolute last resort for health care. I am not against appropriating money for social programs. You proposal was presented as backdoor incremental expansion of Govt sponsored medical care to avoid a big political back lash.

[Juche]

7. Pretty much

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080923/ap_on_el_pr/obama

WASHINGTON - Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama says he probably would have to delay the spending programs he has called for during his campaign in light of the massive government bailout being proposed for the nation's financial industry.

The Bush administration and Congress on Tuesday were discussing the details of a $700 billion financial rescue plan. Obama said the problem should be dealt with as a short-term crisis with bipartisan action and then as a long-term structural issue.

"Although we are potentially providing $700 billion in available money to the Treasury, we don't anticipate that all that money gets spent right away and we don't anticipate that all that money is lost. How we're going to structure that in budget terms still has to be decided," Obama told NBC's "Today" show in an interview aired Tuesday.

"Does that mean I can do everything that I've called for in this campaign right away? Probably not," he said. "I think we're going to have to phase it in."

[lpbk2713]

8. Ever since RayGun the RWers main objective has been the end of 'entitlements'.

Anything worthwhile since FDR is what they wanted to do away with.
BushCo has now put them very close to their goal.

[thereismore]

10. Can a country declare bankruptcy? Just asking. nt