**********OFFICIAL BAILOUT HEARING THREAD #5*********

[shadowknows69]

Sherrod Brown rocks!!!

CSPAN 3
<http://www.c-span.org/watch/cspan3_rm.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS3>

[Gin]

1. Oh but Paulson knows how to fix it.......and understands all the issues

they really think we are stupid

[MorningGlow]

2. Why, yes, Senator Brown

I think the American public IS owed an apology!

We'll wait... :D

[shadowknows69]

7. He couldn't even say it

It was like the Fonz trying to say "Sorry"

[MorningGlow]

Being part of the Bush regime means never having to say you're sorry n/t

[shadowknows69]

50. I think they actually have shock collars on them

[MorningGlow]

59. And they LIKE it

:puke:

[Roland99]

3. Sen. Brown to Bernanke: Does Wall St. owe Main St. an apology?

Bernanke then waxes stutteringly that Wall St. is not an actual thing and blah blah blah...


iow, NO.


Fuck you, Chopper Ben!

[Mist]

8. Yes, it's "an abstraction." Fuck 'em all, and the crooked deals they rode in on. nt

[Mist]

4. Thanks again, Shadow. You're on top of this. Appreciate it. nt

[shadowknows69]

5. Herman "Munster" Paulson may blow a blood vessel

[MadrasT]

6. We can dream

[Mist]

12. That would be gratifying. Pools of flop sweat. I'd like to see that. nt

[Gin]

14. wonder who he discussed his ideas with? Wall Street?

g

[Solly Mack]

9. "excess complexities"...surround ourselves with smart people

[Subdivisions]

10. 'Does Wall Street owe the American people an apology? '

Neither Paulson nor Helicopter Ben answered the question posed to them by Brown.

[shadowknows69]

19. It was like they were physically incapable of saying it wasn't it?

Like their head would explode first.

[bdamomma]

96. they do not care about the American people.

they are saying suck it up, says the EX CEO of Goldman Sachs

[LisaM]

11. I'm trying to get it all straight.

Appraisers upped the value of houses so banks could make money off bigger mortgages. People were given loans for these over-priced houses as if they were candy. People TOOK the loans knowing that they were basically only paying off the interest, not the principle. People SOLD houses for well more than they were worth and didn't feel any pricks of conscience. The buyers then proceeded to re-finance based on a speculative market, then did things like trick out their kitchens and add three bathrooms (I've seen kitchens on HGTV that cost more than I make in a year). And now I am supposed to help pay for this?

Have I missed anything?

[AndyA]

55. Why, Lisa, you almost make it sound like what they did was wrong...

Pathetic, ain't it? And now the people they screwed are going to have to pull their butts out of the wringer. :shrug:

[HCE SuiGeneris]

13. Paulson: It's too complex for you morans, trust us...

BD!12: F U crook!

[Mist]

15. Paulson drags out the "market-based solutions" trope. As if he and others haven't

been GAMING THE MARKET for years. Hey, Hank, not all 'Murkins are idiots. You fucking thief.

[SnoopDog]

16. Isn't having a hearing with Paulson and Bernanke like talking to the ...

Fox about guarding the hen house?

[Solly Mack]

17. oooh...he's defining fairness to tax payers

[barbtries]

18. i honestly can't believe what i'm hearing

bernanke: just give us the money and we'll work out the details. don't hamper us. novel situation. i am getting sicker by the second and may have to shut it down and read about it later, or never. maybe just find out how it turns out while i'm standing in the bread line.

[Mist]

20. "You'll have your transparency AFTER YOU GIVE US THE MONEY" yeah, we're

all good with that. NOT.

[shadowknows69]

25. That's what it boils down to

[bdamomma]

98. criminals all of them, no way should they get our money.

I feel like when Lucy pulls the football away from Charlie Brown, like how many times are we going to fall flat on our faces.

We need to stop being their victims, they need to be ours.

[Solly Mack]

21. Bush claims he wants transparency all the time

just saying...

[Mist]

22. I have a new meme: "Transparency shouldn't have a price tag." nt

[shadowknows69]

24. Exactly, they can't even explain why they couldn't do ANYTHING with less than 700B

[dixiegrrrrl]

23. Can you hear the quavers in their voices?

Paulson, Bernake, Cox all are stuttering, tight tense voices.

Paulson just said " I never said I did not want oversight" !!??!!

[Mist]

26. I treasure their stuttering. Tells me this ain't going the way Paulson et al thought it would. nt

[bdamomma]

99. eff them, they are not going to get our money.

[Subdivisions]

Clearly. n/t

[barbtries]

35. that's a joke

he wrote it into the proposal. no oversight, no second guessing the one with absolute power over OUR money.

[bdamomma]

100. no congressional oversight and not to be revealed to any court.

:mad:

[HCE SuiGeneris]

27. Great urgency! Do it now! We NEED that money!

:puke: :puke: :puke:

[Virginia Dare]

41. At this point I'm willing to take the risk call those bastards on their bluff!..n/t

[Pathwalker]

69. Is it because they said the Iraq War would only cost $10 Billion - total?

And it's now $10 Billion a month? ;-)

[Roland99]

28. So, it's a "great urgency" only to "calm the markets"?? LIES!

It's only to save the stock value of a few companies with their cronies at the helm at great cost to us taxpayers.

[Subdivisions]

Yep. Too bad most Americans are too goddamned stupid or apathetic

to be at all relevant beyond blindly paying their taxes without any idea what it's going towards.

[shadowknows69]

29. Go get them Casey

[barbtries]

30. thread needs recs por favor

[Mist]

31. Casey asks about the "gaping hole" in Paulson's plan, that his plan doesn't

prevent more foreclosures on homes. Casey says there are 10,000 mortgage foreclosures every month. I didn't know it was so high.

[Solly Mack]

32. Bush ALWAYS claimed to want transparency and he ALWAYS LIED.

If a Bush cabinet member giving his word reassures anyone...well, then you're a fool.
(or a liar)

[shadowknows69]

33. Sign behind Bernake's head

NO WELFARE FOR THE WEALTHY


Bwah ha ha ha ha

[dixiegrrrrl]

34. Bernanke just now can hardly string 2 words together

without stammering, voice is very quavery.

that is the sound of lies.

Also, watch their eyes. Every time they slide to the right, that is a tell of lying.


Notice that Paulson is the one whe keeps coming back to
RUSH RUSH NOW NOW HURRY HURRY.

[dixiegrrrrl]

36. Bernanke just now can hardly string 2 words together

without stammering, voice is very quavery.

that is the sound of lies.

Also, watch their eyes. Every time they slide to the right, that is a tell of lying.


Notice that Paulson is the one whe keeps coming back to
RUSH RUSH NOW NOW HURRY HURRY.

[MadrasT]

37. Just got back - hey there's BOB CASEY!!! He's my senator.

I didn't realize he was on this committee when I emailed about this. :woohoo:

[Mist]

38. Paulson wants to get lending going again, so that taxpayers, homeowner, etc., can

go into even more debt? Gotta keep the lending up to shore up the inflated cost of housing and mortgages?

Do I have that right?

[shadowknows69]

40. Yep, that's the way I read it

People are drowning in debt but we should help the banks so they can get into more.

[Mist]

43. I guess so much of our economy is based on shuffling debt around, that to this bunch,

more of the same is the only solution.

[MadrasT]

39. Casey's asking about executive compensation too...

... I wish he'd sound a little more passionate. He already sounds defeated.

[Roland99]

42. Senile Bunning nailing Paulson re: student loans and credit card debt!!

Paulson will NOT answer the question!

"I don't know. What we've asked for is *broad authority"...but the focus here is...the major focus is...mortgage-related"


A non-denial denial.

[Mist]

49. Oh, for fuck's sake, Bunning, it's not regulatory "problems," it's NO REGULATION that's the problem.

[MorningGlow]

44. Uh oh--Sen. Bunning actually READ something

They didn't count on THAT--now he's caught Paulson stammering again!
:rofl:

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

51. I get the feeling...

That Bunning is just staggering about.

[kirby]

75. Yeah, that was in the Wash Times.... n/t

[barbtries]

45. the answer's yes!

you do want to cover all debt. you want absolute power. bunning trying to get a straight yes or no to no avail.

[MorningGlow]

46. OMG Bunning

"How long were you CEO of Goldman Sachs?"
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[suffragette]

47. "How long were you the CEO of Goldman-Sachs"

Oops

edit - That was Bunning!

[BraneMatter]

53. Speech defect???

You know I never realized Paulson had such a stuttering problem before.

Poor fellow, it must be embarrassing...

Bet they picked on him as a kid.

[dixiegrrrrl]

48. Repub. Jim Bunning

is really pressing Paulson and not happy at getting BS for answers.

" How long were you ( Paulson) chairman of Goldman Sachs?"

[Mist]

52. Well, upthread I dissed Bunning a bit, but it's nice he's bringing in Paulson and

Goldman-Sachs.

[Gin]

54. Bunning has asked the best questions so far....

[AngryOldDem]

60. Is that who that is?

Thanks -- he is asking the questions that need to be asked.

And Paulson's backpedalling...love it.

[DemReadingDU]

103. For a Republican, Bunning gets this one, n/t

[shadowknows69]

58. This is pretty much a bi-partisan beating for Paulson and Bernake

I'm lovin it. They're flustered just begging and spewing the same lies over and over.

[MadrasT]

56. Bunning! "Frightful to the point of panic that I don't see a solution

in your plan"

[Roland99]

57. Bunning "frightful to the point of panic that I don't see a solution in your plan"

zing!

Mentioned Paulson is gone after Jan. 2009 but Bunning has to answer to us Kentuckians!

[MorningGlow]

62. And that's why Dems and Repugs are both going after these guys

This fails, these senators don't get reelected. Always the bottom line.

[Gin]

65. lots of plumbing analogies used today.........what are we?

[DemReadingDU]

104. Power play of the Republicans to swindle our tax money

so that when Obama takes office, the Treasury is bare.

[Roland99]

61. Bernanke: "I can't predict the future and I've been wrong quite a few times"

NO SHIT!!!

Why believe you now?!?!?!?

[MadrasT]

63. Bunning is pretty tough

"What happens if $700 billion doesn't take care of the problem?"

Bernanke: "I can't predict the future." OMG he just said there's a chance they may come back and say they didn't need it all.





Excuse me, I'm going to have a meltdown now: :spray: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[AngryOldDem]

64. I see the markets are now 100-plus points down....

...obviously they don't like what they're hearing. No blank check today.

[Roland99]

71. DJIA -136...low of day...10,876.

[AngryOldDem]

73. I just saw 156.

Up now, to 128 down.

Changes every nanosecond. I think they can't get around the fact that Congress is not rolling over at their command. I wouldn't be surprised to see a close around 200 down...I really don't hear Bernanke or Paulson saying anything that will spur a late-day rally.

[BraneMatter]

66. 700 billion might not be enough???

Bernanke can't say.

And Paulson can't predict cost or risk to taxpayer.

Ah, hell, let's give 'em the trillion anyway!

It will be such a hoot...

[MadrasT]

67. Bayh up

[MadrasT]

68. Paulson: "If you impose punitive conditions this won't work

and we'll all lose."

[barbtries]

72. this after he's stated at least twice

that the taxpayers are screwed no matter what. then, fuck it. as long as the people who caused this lose, and i'm losing anyway, why the fuck would i sign up for this plan?!

[MadrasT]

76. They are nowhere close to making a convincing case

why we should hand them $700 billion dollars.

[barbtries]

78. not even close

imo they haven't made the case because it's a rotten case. they are trying to finish the job on the american people and the american republic and they cannot be allowed to get away with this.

[AngryOldDem]

88. Dare I say it?

If you put lipstick on a pig, it's still a pig.

They cannot sell this because what this boils down to is, they want a bailout with no accountability for anyone. Oh, and if it means they take our houses in the bargain, well, that's fine too.

What makes us think they will be any more responsible with this $700 billion? It's literally throwing good money after bad.

[Piewhacket]

70. Paulson insists on a 'bridge to nowhere'

"Thanks, but NO THANKS!"

Paulson help create the mess as the chairman of Goldman-Sachs, now trust him to
fix it? He's delusional. Or thinks we are. The assets are worth NOTHING, that's
what you won't say. This is about saving the wealthy at taxpayer expense.

Einstein's pivotal insight in formulating the General Theory of Relativity,:
'a man falling from a tall building feels no force'.

Try it out Hank, Einstein wouldn't lie to you (like you are lying to us).

[Mist]

74. Yeah, he "failed upward," a rethug specialty, with this administration. nt

[Mist]

77. Corker (R-Tennessee) is making the point that Paulson's "plan" just doesn't

have enough detail in it. Paulson just haven't given the panel the info they need. So true.

[MadrasT]

80. "If we were venture capitalists, we'd say -

come back when you have some meat on this plan."

[bdamomma]

101. and it was only three pages long

this is total BS, and they should not get that money, let bush have his hissy fit.

[Solly Mack]

79. I had to go start dinner. How many times did they say "for the tax payers" while I was away?

[Mist]

81. Corker asks Bernanke about Bernanke's idea of "second liens." Does that mean

putting more money into what are already bad debts? Did I get that right?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

84. but don't worry, trust him, they're only worth a few cents on the dollar.....

[Mist]

87. Ooooh, goody! Bargain basement bad paper! But when does it magically turn

into good paper? Oh, yeah, the market forces will rescue the situtation. I feel soooo much better.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

91. lol!

[Piewhacket]

102. About "second" liens....

You folks obviously know this, but some readers may not fully understand
what a 'second' is worth in these circumstances, and therefore what
is being proposed.

House purchase and ownership. At purchase the house was worth 300,000.
Mortgage - 220,000
Second - 30,000

On transfer the mortgage is paid first then if any remains the 'second lien' is paid,
then the homeowner gets the rest, if any.

Case 1) If (at sale) the above house is worth 300,000, all is well, everybody wins.

Case 2) If the house is worth 250,000, the lien and mortgage gets paid, but the owner takes
a walk (gets nothing). Ask why should the owner keep making the payments? (foreclosure)

Case 3) If the house is worth less than 220,000, the owner and second holder get nothing.

QUESTION: Housing has dropped 40%. What is the market value of the above 'second lien'?
ANSWER: ZERO.


=====
This is an oversimplification ( I am not an expert):
'Derivitives' are complicated instruments which include (theoretically, somewhere) some real
asset (but might be a complete house of cards). As we have seen, unregulated 'derivitives'
can be the biggest 'machine of fraud' in the history of man. 'Classic Ponzi' with the
American taxpayer as the bozo fall guy. But if a derivitive were tied directly to
the second liens on houses, what would this 'second lien' derivative be worth if the
housing market tanked?

[Solly Mack]

82. so...what's the exit strategy?

[barbtries]

83. Corker just told him straight up

this isn't going to happen in a minute.
good, good

[MadrasT]

85. Bring us back a "fully baked concept"

:woohoo:

[Subdivisions]

86. I can't believe I'm saying this, but...GO CORKER!!!1! n/t

[Roland99]

89. And wasn't Corker the one worried about going home on Friday?

[Mist]

90. Sen. Akaka up now. nt

[shadowknows69]

92. I have to run for about half an hour folks. Someone else will have to make threads.

[Roland99]

94. Thread 6 is up

[bushmeister0]

93. If this works, if this works, If, If , If.

It's like everything a Senator asks for he'll get . . . if this works out.

If you give us the money all your dreams will come true.

Full employment. The end of foreclosures. You name it, Senator. Transparency? You got it. Trust us.

If wishes were horses.

[nc4bo]

95. Those 2 bastards (Bernanke and Paulson) should be wired to a lie detector during this hearing.

I'm sure the ink would be all over the machine instead of the paper.

Lying bastards.

[MadrasT]

97. Thread 6 here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4068166